You have to be kidding me... like why

[Kaula]

So let me start off that I'm not a developer so I might say wrong things or stuff, let me know if that happens

Now here's the thing, when I first started (& knowing about porn games) I downloaded them on my android device, it was Summertime Saga my first game, after that I started using my pc since my phone is slow AF, at that time (around the start of 2018, which is when I started playing) I didn't think much about donating and how much devs make, until recently...

And when I first saw ICSTOR's patron and how many patrons he have I was literally shocked for like 5 mins, he has currently 5113 patreons, and some of them are $100 tier, that means he at least makes 15k every month
(And other games like Big brother dev... etc)
Like that is just an insane amount, altho developing a game isn't easy, 15k is just ridiculous for a porn game
And I know, I played Milfy City (and completed the last update) and I've enjoyed it, still, that doesn't justify why lots of people are becoming patreons when he has 5k already, specially when most of that money (which can buy you 12x 2080 Tis a month) isn't being used in the game

support a creator but for this much, it's insane, yes support the creator, I'd say like maybe $2000/$3000 at maximum is enough for a porn game support, but this just blows my mind

And at the end, I'm not a dev so I might be wrong, thank you for your time <3

 

[anne O'nymous]

You're looking at this from a wrong point of view. Icstor make $15k/month, good for him, but it doesn't mean that someone think that he deserve to make this much. Some apparently think that he deserve $100/month, but that's all.

What make the difference is not how much he deserve, according to peoples, nor how much he need, but how many people think he deserve something, whatever if it's $1 or $100.
You think that "this dev" deserve $10/month, then you give him. And the more you are to think that way, the more he will make. But still, in the end, everybody agree to think that he just deserve $10/month, not the amount he effectively earn.

 

[katarne04]

to be honest some those supporters want the developers to go full time into the game(s) and that cant happen when the developers time and efforts are what they are currently. who is to say how much does it cost. who is to say its enough. supporters trust these developers to manage their support wisely enough to get better results into the game. Everyone wants the results now, easy, and free. They are willing to pay what they want for that game.

I tend to view each game as an indefinite game project. developers, supporters, and the public audience pool resources together to bring the project to life and follow through its progression until the game is completed. Then very few follow up with a new game. Most games are work in progress depending on the support it has. I see that most well earning patreons sort of use transparency to show how their supporters money is spent. THis means more game content and perhaps the mention of hiring new team(s) for better enhanced gameplay features. this is done with support only content as well as game input and participation within the game. Usually for most games its simply not enough as seen with amount of abandoned new games or games that were left still in work and no progress. So in the end we are left with games that have tremendous risk towards completion with an indefinite project window and supporters that throw money at the game for any of their respective reasons.

 

[passerbyR34]

Nothing wrong with that imo

and i hope u won't drop ur jaw or literally shocked for 15 mins when seeing ur very first porn game dev, DarkCookie's page

 

[Winterfire]

You are looking at it from a wrong prospective: It is not about deserving it but rather how good the premise of what you are offering is and, should that be good, all the fans that can afford it will want to pitch something to help, to give their contribute individually, like "Cool idea, I like it, here's a coffee!"

Some people may do it for the tiers, to get builds, manuals, and so on as soon as possible or are simply interested in the game developing side of things or simply want to know what is going on (assuming there are weekly updates like most of them do).

I may be wrong but that is what I have personally experienced at least: I had a sucky project idea with even worse art and despite updating it regularly I only have 1 patreon: The same person for months which at this point became my hero, basically.
Whereas I have seen patreon pages that were not updated since November with a premise and art better than mine (Good Girl Gone bad style of games) which to this day have a lot more patreons than me (heck, even the scammer miagamehouse at their worst had more patreons than me, and they surely did not deserve it ).

Putting all that aside, even if your prospective had been right, that does not mean you were right as you can't judge who deserves what... Most of them are not solo but work in teams, they pay for their art, for their animators, for voice acting... And those things can be pretty expensive, not to mention that the money you see on patreon aren't 100% what the people actually get.

 

[HopesGaming]

support a creator but for this much, it's insane, yes support the creator, I'd say like maybe $2000/$3000 at maximum is enough for a porn game support, but this just blows my mind
<3

2000-3000$?
Jesus, who would work on something 20 hours a day for a minimum wage like that? Taxes, food, rent and what else need to be paid by a grown ass adult. I can understand for very young people (or people from third world countries) that the amount seems a lot. But for a full grown man who wants to make a full-time job on something. That amount will only be good for a side job. And hence less time, updates and content.

When making a patreon account and dedicating imaginable hours without pay at the start. Your goal is to be able to make it a job. When people pledge, they don't buy the game, nor are they giving just enough for the game to be made (like Kickstarter). They support the dev which makes something they a fan of. And if the stuff is great they want the dev to get the rewards they think he/she/they deserve.

Why would the creator(s) deserve any less than what the followers think he/she/they deserve?

 

[GuyFreely]

Such an odd thing to complain about. This successful game dev is too successful. You realize this is literally how the world works? If you make something people want, they are often willing to give you money for it. Each individual person decides what it's worth to them. The total amount shouldn't be a factor. If enough people decide to give something, it adds up to a lot. Have you seen how much Twitch streamers make for yelling at children while playing a video game? It may shock you for many minutes.

 

[HiEv]

support a creator but for this much, it's insane, yes support the creator, I'd say like maybe $2000/$3000 at maximum is enough for a porn game support, but this just blows my mind

Well, first of all, depending on where the developer lives, it's likely that that somewhere between 35-50% of that ends up going to taxes.

Second of all, if they work half time, so 20 hours per week/80 hours per month, then after taxes they're making $18.75/hour or less. Without benefits. If they're working full time, that drops to $9.38/hour or less, which is below minimum wage in many states.

On the other hand, if they were working in the software industry, a good software developer can easily make $40-65/hour (after taxes) plus benefits.

I think you might want to reconsider your stance, otherwise you're demanding that adult game creators either live in poverty or work two+ jobs.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Well, first of all, depending on where the developer lives, it's likely that that somewhere between 35-50% of that ends up going to taxes.

To this, need to be added at least health and retirement insurance/subscription (depending of the country). In Europe, globally when someone is paid 100, it's between 150 and 175 that is effectively spent by his employer. And it's not because you're your own employer, that you've suddenly to spend less.
So, from the $3000, we fall back to at most $2000, and still the taxes to pay based on the $3000. In the end, bellow $5000, it's not really enough to live in western countries.

 

[Domiek]

You seem to be genuine in your question so I'll try to put it from a devs perspective.

1) If you view the game as a product, then even $10,000 for 1 million+ people using your product seems pretty low, right? Do you think these games aren't worth even 50cents? Because that would still earn the dev $500k. What we earn now is from the generosity of about 1% of the people using our product.

2) $3000 for working 40+ hours a week is a joke in most western countries. For example, my mortgage alone is $1700. A lot of devs have full time jobs and spend 80+ hours a week working between two jobs. These aren't people doing something easy and living the relaxed life of luxury. For the first 6 months of my game, I made more in one day at my day job than I did with one month of patreon income. I'm married and we're planning for a kid soon. Do you think I'll continue making games if people decide I've "made enough" by using some arbitrary number ? No, I'll keep my job to support my family.

3) This "industry" is risky. At any moment Patreon can close the door on adult content and we're all out of income. If you want higher quality adult games, you need to understand that this wont happen unless a dev can quit their job and work on the game fulltime. Most people arent going to quit their jobs for a risky source of income unless the trade off is worth it.

When you pledge to a dev, you're not only directly supporting that person and their family, you're supporting this industry. The more full-time devs we have, the higher quality the games become for everyone. You said that you only started playing these games in 2018. Try to find some of the games from 2017, the contrast in quality is shocking. That's because more money entered the scene since last year.

 

[W65]

Do AAA game houses stop charging people when they feel like they've made enough money?

It's really a matter--like everyone else has said--of the number of people a dev can attract who feel like it's worthwhile to pay some amount of money for the game. Then, each of those people pays what they feel is a fair amount of money based on the value of the game dev to them.

I know AAA houses have many more people involved in each game, and advertisers to pay, and distribution costs, and whatever else, but why should indie porn game devs necessarily have some kind of cap on their earnings just because it could be one or two people to whom that money gets paid? Not to mention, like others have said, taxes and expenses.

Or is it just that porn game devs shouldn't be making that much money? Or is it just indie game devs in general? Or should it be intrinsic to Patreon that supporters need to reduce their contributions based on how much support the dev already has? I don't really understand what force should be controlling how much money gets made by these devs.

For all its problems, the Patreon model at least lets a consumer make direct value judgments. For a AAA game, the purchaser either decides that it's worth $60 to them, or they wait to see if the price changes. Of course, sorta modifying that idea is that you're not really buying the game as a normal commercial transaction--heck, Patreon-developed games rarely even finish and get a price tag, otherwise you WOULD be paying what the dev asks for the game rather than what it's worth to you. That's all sorta beside the point, and there's also nothing really stopping a dev on Patreon from just running away with your money so it's not exactly a simple classroom economic situation anyhow.

 

[Domiek]

... there's also nothing really stopping a dev on Patreon from just running away with your money so it's not exactly a simple classroom economic situation anyhow.

Patreon model has its own bag of problems but there's also a beauty to it. People vote with their money. A dev won't survive long being anti-consumer. We've already witnessed this with the likes of Darksilver. Guy was in top 10 for adult game earnings. Lost 2/3 of his supporters by implementing DRM/ online only, anti consumer tactics. Voting with your dollar directly shapes the adult game "industry".

 

[FranceToast]

support a creator but for this much, it's insane, yes support the creator, I'd say like maybe $2000/$3000 at maximum is enough for a porn game support, but this just blows my mind

I'd love for someone to support my porn game for $2,000/$3,000-that would be one generous person!

Seriously though, as others have noted-it isn't about one person saying a game is worth xxxx amount a month-it is a lot of people saying a game is worth x/xx/xxx amount a month, and that is pretty great, IMHO.

I do have a related Patreon question though-are people really supporting games at the $50/$100 tiers for long periods of time, or are they usually one-off generous contributions? (for example, I like BuyMeACoffee because I can just pay $40-$60 for a game I enjoy, and it is comparable to buying a PC game on Steam)
Again, people can and should do what they want with their money, but if you are really paying $100/month for a year for one game...well, damn son, you must really love that game.

 

[Avaron1974]

I won't begrudge anyone making decent money, the economy is fickle at the best of times and those earning thousands now may not in a few months.

I couldn't do it. I'm a chef in a really nice place with a really good wage and it's not at risk of collapsing at any time.

It would be nice if people could earn enough to get some stability and peace of mind but some devs barely make enough to break even with a lot not making any profit at all.

If people want to support a dev so they earn $45k a month that's fantastic.

 

[ItsEricBoi]

So let me start off that I'm not a developer so I might say wrong things or stuff, let me know if that happens

Now here's the thing, when I first started (& knowing about porn games) I downloaded them on my android device, it was Summertime Saga my first game, after that I started using my pc since my phone is slow AF, at that time (around the start of 2018, which is when I started playing) I didn't think much about donating and how much devs make, until recently...

And when I first saw ICSTOR's patron and how many patrons he have I was literally shocked for like 5 mins, he has currently 5113 patreons, and some of them are $100 tier, that means he at least makes 15k every month
(And other games like Big brother dev... etc)
Like that is just an insane amount, altho developing a game isn't easy, 15k is just ridiculous for a porn game
And I know, I played Milfy City (and completed the last update) and I've enjoyed it, still, that doesn't justify why lots of people are becoming patreons when he has 5k already, specially when most of that money (which can buy you 12x 2080 Tis a month) isn't being used in the game

support a creator but for this much, it's insane, yes support the creator, I'd say like maybe $2000/$3000 at maximum is enough for a porn game support, but this just blows my mind

And at the end, I'm not a dev so I might be wrong, thank you for your time <3

Its supply and demand dude- why are footballers paid so damn much to chase a ball in their shorts?

 

[おい！]

So let me start off that I'm not a developer so I might say wrong things or stuff, let me know if that happens

Now here's the thing, when I first started (& knowing about porn games) I downloaded them on my android device, it was Summertime Saga my first game, after that I started using my pc since my phone is slow AF, at that time (around the start of 2018, which is when I started playing) I didn't think much about donating and how much devs make, until recently...

And when I first saw ICSTOR's patron and how many patrons he have I was literally shocked for like 5 mins, he has currently 5113 patreons, and some of them are $100 tier, that means he at least makes 15k every month
(And other games like Big brother dev... etc)
Like that is just an insane amount, altho developing a game isn't easy, 15k is just ridiculous for a porn game
And I know, I played Milfy City (and completed the last update) and I've enjoyed it, still, that doesn't justify why lots of people are becoming patreons when he has 5k already, specially when most of that money (which can buy you 12x 2080 Tis a month) isn't being used in the game

support a creator but for this much, it's insane, yes support the creator, I'd say like maybe $2000/$3000 at maximum is enough for a porn game support, but this just blows my mind

And at the end, I'm not a dev so I might be wrong, thank you for your time <3

What people choose to donate to patreon is up to them, the dev is not in control of the donations, the donators are. Also as mentioned by others a dev does not receive 100% of the donations there are taxes etc..... to be deducted. So why don't you start a thread asking people why they donate so much instead?

 

[echilog]

football players get payed MILLIONS to kick a ball around...

if enough people like your stuff. you make bank... it is like that with everything.

 

[DarthSeduction]

So, everyone else seems to have covered how you're seeing patreon incorrectly, but lets talk about profit margins for a sec here.

If Milfy City was a complete game that sold on steam, what do you think it would go for? Personally I'm betting around 14.99. And how many people would it sell to? A lot more than 5k, right? Obviously, because we know for sure that a lot more than 5k people are playing that game and plenty would be willing to fork over cash for it if it weren't available for free.

The game's thread, just here on the forum, has 9 million views, ICSTOR has an established audience as both a comic and game creator before this, so their site probably has a huge base as well. To be completely realistic though, lets say that 1 million people buy the game.

Do you think that a game that takes 2 years to develop, making 15-40k is going to top the 15 million that would net them?

So, no, your entire premise is wrong. Even I, a socialist who is against accumulation of wealth, recognize that the amount they're making is fine.

 

[redknight00]

Even if it is enough to live with 2-3k in some place (I 100% could) you must remember that the porn industry is growing and evolving, and so do the developers. Icstor being one of the best examples of that, they started with crap 3d models and today are one of the top Daz3D artists and animators in the porn business, but for that you need to spend on machines, electric bill and software, and on top of that expand and hire people for stuff they may not be the best at, such as writing and coding and so on.

And just because they made a good game, doesn't even mean they hit the limit of what porn games can be, doesn't mean there's no room for further improvements, such as getting even more powerful tools, hiring specialized pros, maybe even voice acting, all of that requires a comfortable margin for investment.

 

[おい！]

2) $3000 for working 40+ hours a week is a joke in most western countries. For example, my mortgage alone is $1700. A lot of devs have full time jobs and spend 80+ hours a week working between two jobs. These aren't people doing something easy and living the relaxed life of luxury. For the first 6 months of my game, I made more in one day at my day job than I did with one month of patreon income. I'm married and we're planning for a kid soon. Do you think I'll continue making games if people decide I've "made enough" by using some arbitrary number ? No, I'll keep my job to support my family.

Wow so 3k a week or 156k a year is considered a joke? So someone must have a huge property if they pay $1700 a week for a mortgage that is $88400 a year. I thought that the average wage in the US was around 40 to 50k a year.