RPGM Games sucks

[baneini]

There seem to be a ton of people who just skip a game when they see the RPGM Tag and move on.
...most people hate RPGM because they played some bad games or had some bad experiences in general with games from that engine - not the engine itself.

Vocal minorities, people who are OK with something don't come in masses to say they're OK with the thing.
You have to factor in adhd kids with no patience who need instant gratification. People will ignore [rpgm] if they're not willing to invest time to get into a game. You have to look at how much people make on patreon making rpgm games to estimate how well your game would do.

There is genuinely awful games that suffer from bad design and possible from being made in older versions of rpgmaker with worse ui and features that certainly put people off. At the same time theres great rpgmaker titles made by competent devs. The biggest difference comes from the talents of the dev rather than the engine.

 

[Schwauch]

Vocal minorities, people who are OK with something don't come in masses to say they're OK with the thing.
You have to factor in adhd kids with no patience who need instant gratification. People will ignore [rpgm] if they're not willing to invest time to get into a game. You have to look at how much people make on patreon making rpgm games to estimate how well your game would do.

There is genuinely awful games that suffer from bad design and possible from being made in older versions of rpgmaker with worse ui and features that certainly put people off. At the same time theres great rpgmaker titles made by competent devs. The biggest difference comes from the talents of the dev rather than the engine.

I get what your saying. It's still just frustrating how badly received RPG Maker games for some people are, just because they are RPG Maker games. I mean, there was a dude earlier in this thread who saif RPGM is a cancerous mass that needs to die.

I haven't seen anyone complain that bad about Ren'py so far.

That said, I do aim to cease the more common flaws RPG Maker games have. For example the inability to play wihout a walkthrough - Noxian Nights is very much guilty of this issue. Or badly paced story - the inability to redo scenes. Horrendous combat... all that stuff. I get why people would hate the individual dev for stuff like that - but the whole engine? Meh.

 

[gogollolo]

I get why people would hate the individual dev for stuff like that - but the whole engine? Meh.

That's pretty much it. The important thing is how it's done. Each engine has terrible and awesome games. As a rpgm fan, my favorite games atm are Kindom of Deception(Ren'Py) and Seeds of Chaos(Ren'Py).

 

[Delmach]

This thread made me anxious about my plans of creating an adult 18+ game in RPG Maker MV.

I would say thats nothing to really worry about, theres plenty of people that would be sad if the only standard of adult "games" would be click through dialogue to receive picture. There are indeed a lot of people that outright say they dont want a gameplay part in their adult game. You probably wont be able to satisfy them anyway.

Now if you are worried about people not checking a game based on the engine, well that seems to be the same in every regard with humanity, people clinging to their opinions no matter what exist and arguing over the internet is mostly useless anyway.

There are enough games with an audience, for example the Opala Series, Roundscape, and whatnot that realized those games dont really work in other engines, or would also require an engine and 3d graphics that are A) basically unreachable for most developers, or B) might kill the machines of people trying so. Also, in my opinion, most often 3d worlds are crap in terms of immersion, you see everything there is, that leaves nothing for the imagination. Thats why people say books are mostly superior to movies.

Some advice if its wanted, the option to sprint or always sprint is basically always recommended to have. And adding in shortcut options, be it Teleporter, Bus-Stops, or whatever helps to avoid the "walking simulator" responses. Another thing that would help there is, give them some distraction. Dont just have them run from a to b, let there be naughty pictures to discover as a collectible part of the game, or let them find panties that lead to a sidequest. Its an engine thats decent for exploration and reward for it, so why not use those possibilities.

 

[Schwauch]

Some advice if its wanted, the option to sprint or always sprint is basically always recommended to have. And adding in shortcut options, be it Teleporter, Bus-Stops, or whatever helps to avoid the "walking simulator" responses. Another thing that would help there is, give them some distraction. Dont just have them run from a to b, let there be naughty pictures to discover as a collectible part of the game, or let them find panties that lead to a sidequest. Its an engine thats decent for exploration and reward for it, so why not use those possibilities.

Yes, those are the biggest issues I have with some RPG Maker games. Slow walking, literally no reason to talk to any of the NPCs, no actual quests - I'm aiming for something that breaks these kind of habits. Maybe I'll add an option to remove combat altogether for those that absolutely don't like it. But I haven't made my mind up on that part.

 

[Maximilian]

I've only played rpgms, because I clicked through all renpy demos. They are not that bad. So far Incest Story 2 is my favorite. I liked MGA, but it was laggy as shit. Slow animations loading etc. Also rpgms are limited to 20 save slots and this sucks balls.

 

[Delmach]

Yes, those are the biggest issues I have with some RPG Maker games. Slow walking, literally no reason to talk to any of the NPCs, no actual quests - I'm aiming for something that breaks these kind of habits. Maybe I'll add an option to remove combat altogether for those that absolutely don't like it. But I haven't made my mind up on that part.

Im not saying I dont like the combat, but I agree that sometimes it just seems to be the case that developers found the combat part and probably though: "Yeah well if its already in then lets use it, for something."

The japanese industry, while also very often just throwing out the bare basics with nothing creative, also created systems where you have naughty combat, be it desctructible clothes so the character gets naked, to groping, to more. Or you dont have health, you have stamina and the combat is a endurance fuck fest. You know, sex sells, and people probably like the combat more if it also includes something visually stimulating. Think that works for everything.

Or, if you want to not include any sexy things into the combat, there are some more interesting combat mechanics, for example using something like Ability Points to balance out your hit strength, hit chance and defense. Sangeki no Gear has that system and its more interesting than half of the other combat in adult and regular turn based games.

 

[Delmach]

I've only played rpgms, because I clicked through all renpy demos. They are not that bad. So far Incest Story 2 is my favorite. I liked MGA, but it was laggy as shit. Slow animations loading etc. Also rpgms are limited to 20 save slots and this sucks balls.

Nah they can have more than 20 save slots, one of the early versions had only 4, but nowadays I seen 50 and more. Depends on the version and probably on the developer, think they can somehow add more.

 

[Schwauch]

Nah they can have more than 20 save slots, one of the early versions had only 4, but nowadays I seen 50 and more. Depends on the version and probably on the developer, think they can somehow add more.

The first RPG Maker to be somewhat popular was RPG Maker 2000, and this one already hat 15 save slots. Nowadays, with MV you can have up to 999 saves if you fancy, since the whole engine can be highly customized via javascript plugins.

As for the combat: I'm actually not sure yet. What I know is that I do not want game over rape - the idea of forcing people to lose the combat is just silly to me. The rape art will probably used somewhere else.

I wasn't a fan of Sangeki no Gears combat, to be honest. It's an awesome combat system for a normal RPG - but for an H-RPG I think it's too tactical and also too slow. But that's just my opinion, I that a low of people really enjoyed that system.

I'm thinking of making combat optional - not in the way of disabling it via a toggle, but it not being mandatory to progress the core game. like, you could finish the game without a single combat, but there are some extra scenes that you can only reach after battling something or someone.

 

[Delmach]

The first RPG Maker to be somewhat popular was RPG Maker 2000, and this one already hat 15 save slots. Nowadays, with MV you can have up to 999 saves if you fancy, since the whole engine can be highly customized via javascript plugins.

Im 99% sure there were games with only 4 save slots, but that might also already been on the developer for not realizing he could somehow up the save slots, even back then.

I wasn't a fan of Sangeki no Gears combat, to be honest. It's an awesome combat system for a normal RPG - but for an H-RPG I think it's too tactical and also too slow. But that's just my opinion, I that a low of people really enjoyed that system.

Yeah, well I agree, you either incorporate something fitting in the combat (adult wise), or not. And if not, for me as a person that also plays regular RPGs for many years, its a nice idea to have something different than just really basic turn based systems. Thats why I added a different combat type (the Sangeki one) for people that might even make a serious type of game and dont want combat rape, groping, sexual moves or whatever. Or it just doesnt fit into their setting.

Edit: About the 4 save slots, Legend of Queen Opala 1 (the only kinda old game that I remembered and which was also quick to download through F95), even the gold edition only had 4 save slots. But as said above, might have even been possible to up back then, not too sure.

 

[Maximilian]

The most annoying combat system in rpgm I've ever seen was in incest story 1. Freaking rats/bats/zombies every 2 meters for no reason were depressing af. Also 3 minutes in the game we were forced to grind eq or die in a sewage. Opponents were too damn strong at the beginning of the game. Also they had no connection to the plot line, their goal was to fill some time. Had to use a save editor to finish the game.

 

[baneini]

That said, I do aim to cease the more common flaws RPG Maker games have.

Here's some things I like to see in rpgm title:
Self explanatory map design. Constricted areas with minor side routes. Too large maps with redundant houses and npcs is massive waste of time and confuses the player. Teleports to relevant locations. Interactable doors have an indication for it. Some thought put into avoiding an npc blocking pathways. During quests there's markers of what to interact with.
Quest journal with detailed description of where to go. Map exist somewhere. Not knowing where to go is the Biggest source of frustration in these games.
During combat heavy missions there's max 5 fodder fights before an dialogue or other event, and otherwise have rare fights during town wandering.
No animated scenes because the engine sucks for it.
Ability to hide dialogue and skip text/battle animations.
When you press a key to progress dialogue and it brings up a choice it goes to an empty slot so that player must use arrow key down to select an option preventing them accidentally selecting something.
Menus that don't close when you want to use an option multiple times. If you click the option, it brings you back to the sub-menu where you can click that same option immediately.

 

[JuanDomingo]

The problems is not RPGM itself, but the devs. 99% of RPGM games are completely linear, force you to follow exact steps, have some kind of tedious and frustrating grinding (eg; deliver newspapers)... and retarded story writing... Basically there's no gameplay at all, it's like the typical slideshow renpy ported to RPGM. Devs should play Knights of Xentar to understand what a real adult RPG should be like.

 

[Delmach]

The most annoying combat system in rpgm I've ever seen was in incest story 1. Freaking rats/bats/zombies every 2 meters for no reason were depressing af. Also 3 minutes in the game we were forced to grind eq or die in a sewage. Opponents were too damn strong at the beginning of the game. Also they had no connection to the plot line, their goal was to fill some time. Had to use a save editor to finish the game.

That reminds me of the nightmares of the Pokemon Zubat Cave in the first generation, fucking bats every few steps. At least later I realized there are items to lessen the random encounters in that game.

But now that you mentioned it, thats something I personally would put on the biggest flaw list for RPGmaker games, random encounters. At least most newer versions have standard visible monster sprites. Or at least give items that can lessen/reduce the chance. Dont want to relive my younger self in the Zubat cave, not knowing if my supplies last against the endless armies of bats (well and some Onix and Geodudes if I remember correctly).

 

[Schwauch]

Here's some things I like to see in rpgm title:
Self explanatory map design. Constricted areas with minor side routes. Too large maps with redundant houses and npcs is massive waste of time and confuses the player. Teleports to relevant locations. Interactable doors have an indication for it. Some thought put into avoiding an npc blocking pathways. During quests there's markers of what to interact with.
Quest journal with detailed description of where to go. Map exist somewhere. Not knowing where to go is the Biggest source of frustration in these games.
During combat heavy missions there's max 5 fodder fights before an dialogue or other event, and otherwise have rare fights during town wandering.
No animated scenes because the engine sucks for it.
Ability to hide dialogue and skip text/battle animations.
When you press a key to progress dialogue and it brings up a choice it goes to an empty slot so that player must use arrow key down to select an option preventing them accidentally selecting something.
Menus that don't close when you want to use an option multiple times. If you click the option, it brings you back to the sub-menu where you can click that same option immediately.

These are some quality tips to take in, thank you for that. I'll keep those in mind!

What's sad is though, is that if you go into any kind of 'normal' RPG Maker community website, those things you've listed are almost required as a given. Gladly, I'm confident enough with RPG Maker to tackle such things.
Looking at 18+ RPG Maker games from a dev perspective is quite funny, actually. Most people don't really use the maker frame that well. For example, let's say there are 5 different events going on at different times on the same map. (Like a tavern, where each day something else is happening) - Instead of using switches and variables to control those events on one single map, they just copy the map four more times and place each event on an individual copy. And then they wonder how RPG Maker games tend to get that big.

 

[Miðgarðsormr]

I skip every RPGM as they all make the same mistake.

Running around in the RPGM environment for no reason. Doing stuff there for no reason. Just use Ren py or no clue what and make a visual novel. Saves alot of time for the dev and saves alot of time for the player.

Also they are like those old Gameboy games from the 80s and even back then there where some better sex games for the gameboy then most RPGM games.

 

[Keidan]

Im the opposite, mostly play rpgm games. I dont like the art of most renpy games I have seen and the ones that I do have male protagonists and I dont play those. I dont have an engine preference really I just have specifics things I look for in playing these games that will make me try it or not.

 

[TearStar]

I do not dislike RPGM games. I hate bad tutorials and guidelines. Like there were some games that never told me what to do or how to do.

While this being said RPGM games are lack of these features to help developers to create a good looking game. Coceter Chronicles did their best in creating an easy experience through out it but even that is failed for some extent. I think most of the RPGM developers want to create side stories and side quests through the game and it's easier that way. But never underestimate the power of Ren'Py.

RPGM Games NOT EQUALS Bad Games
Bad Writing and Low-Effort Programming ARE Bad Games.

 

[groove888]

To me rpgm game have usually the downside of wasting up to 1h before you figure they're rubbish,tedious,badly designed...
Some games had a cool concept but got fucked by notable irritating system.
A lot of (even the good) RPGare pretty bland in their RPG part too, you're forced into a class and have to play it until the end, low customisation. Sure your choice usually matter but you're still massively railroaded from the start.
And the engine is usually somewhat unstable ,game will crash randomly wasting sometimes hours of gameplay or script which is supposed to launch refuse to do it for some reason so you have to reload sometime from scratch.

In the end the engine is frustrating and has usually more downside than upside.

 

[Selfish Communist]

I like RPG's and running around and shit but a sad fact is that most RPGM games I've seen have no reason to be presented in a RPG format. The combat usually sucks, the item system generic and pointless, the story extremely linear..

I think those asian RPGM adult game factories mostly use it because its a tried and tested way of hiding their extreme low levels of original content.