ffive

Forum Fanatic
Jun 19, 2022
4,954
10,734
VN's are not games... they are, as their name clearly state novels. Whether they are completely linear or even non-linear doesn't matter. And those RPG's you mention are not actual games... they are VN's masquerading as RPG's (especially ones made in RPGM who are nothing but walking simulators).
The RPGs i mention are games like Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, KOTOR, all Final Fantasy games etc, and any other RPG in existence which follows a predefined plot the player has no real control over nor branching to speak of. But sure, go ahead and argue these aren't real games. This is nothing but a "no true Scotsman" fallacy you're employing.

Not to mention this is completely pointless argument. Does anyone perusing this thing actually care whether it's a "game" or "novel" they are fapping to, and they'll zip up and leave if it's the latter? Because such concept is entirely meme-worthy.

Do you need Lifepath and skills and stats to have a game about female spy? Yes, you do.
An utterly absurd claim. Have fun arguing how e.g. No One Lives Forever isn't a game about female spy because it doesn't have Lifepath. Or skills and stats for that matter.

Just because Crush had silly idea of having few hours long sequence for what's a single-screen character creation, if that, doesn't make such element mandatory. That's just a gimmick.

At the most basic level the game can simply present the player with choices their character can take, without artificially blocking some of them. The player still would need multiple playthroughs to explore all possibilities, without having to repeatedly go through a long sequence which doesn't have anything to do with being an actual spy doing the spy work.
 
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Ripe

Active Member
Jun 30, 2017
897
769
The RPGs i mention are games like Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect, KOTOR, all Final Fantasy games etc, and any other RPG in existence which follows a predefined plot the player has no real control over nor branching to speak of. But sure, go ahead and argue these aren't real games. This is nothing but a "no true Scotsman" fallacy you're employing.
I thought we are talking stuff that can be found on this site, not mainstream games... but fine, we can talk about them if you insist. Since the only one of those I played was KOTOR (and KOTOR 2) I can say that while those games still have predefined plot, choices made by player in them still matter and they do have multiple endings (even if it's just Good vs. Evil ending) meaning there is a branching paths in them.

Not to mention this is completely pointless argument. Does anyone perusing this thing actually care whether it's a "game" or "novel" they are fapping to, and they'll zip up and leave if it's the latter? Because such concept is entirely meme-worthy.
I agree that your argument is pointless... whether people care if something is "game" or "novel" doesn't matter as long as people enjoy them. That does not chance the fact that they are two very different things that do tend to attract different people.
 

Senor Smut

Member
Aug 11, 2020
125
469
...

I agree that your argument is pointless... whether people care if something is "game" or "novel" doesn't matter as long as people enjoy them. That does not chance the fact that they are two very different things that do tend to attract different people.
That's entirely true, but it's not even the main reason we need to differentiate between them in this case. Novels require no mechanics and no variables, you just get a story and you progress through it like a paper novel or a movie. Games require mechanics that A) have to be devised and balanced, B) implemented across the whole game, and C) have a meaningful impact on play. That's a lot of work, and it's compounded by the fact that Crush would need to retrofit those mechanics to everything that's happened up to now, which not only requires the labor of coding but also the labor of writing many variations of, and alternatives to, a huge number of situations past, present, and future. Crush is a man who is either a complete scammer or paralyzed by the prospect of writing more than ten words a week, and either way this is 100% guaranteed to bring to a halt whatever notional progress is being made.

I've said that it would take two years for him to finish implementing the lifepath, but upon reflection I think that it might easily be four or five years even for a halfassed rendering to be completed. This is a guy who hasn't produced a meaningful update in...what, seven months now? Even someone who works faster and is both honest and competent might well conclude that it would be easier and faster just to start the project over from scratch than take on the awkward and frustrating task of figuring out how to apply all the mechanics he's introduced and abandoned both to everything that has come before and everything that will come in the future as well as writing who-knows-how-many variations of scenes he's already written, provide new paths in already existing material that would open or close depending on your variables. And we all know Crush loves to restart this game.

Again, the main problem with the lifepaths isn't that it's not required for the novel that this venture currently is, it's that it would be an effort toward converting a half-written novel to a game, with all that entails. Half a dozen personality types (which is what he's established the lifepath would produce) require not just half a dozen variations of each scene, but half a dozen alternate paths through major sections of the game, with unique scenes in each and...well, look, Crush can't even write a consistent portrayal of one personality type, how's he gonna handle six? He can't handle writing scenes to progress the default, so he's suddenly going to handle his workload sextupling?

Diversion into lifepaths is just Crush's way of throttling back expectations to zero and keeping that sweet, sweet Patreon tit squirting the milk for another ten years or more.
 
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YellowShoes

Newbie
Dec 19, 2019
16
30
That's entirely true, but it's not even the main reason we need to differentiate between them in this case. Novels require no mechanics and no variables, you just get a story and you progress through it like a paper novel or a movie. Games require mechanics that A) have to be devised and balanced, B) implemented across the whole game, and C) have a meaningful impact on play. That's a lot of work, and it's compounded by the fact that Crush would need to retrofit those mechanics to everything that's happened up to know, which not only requires the labor of coding but also the labor of writing many variations of, and alternatives to, a huge number of situations past, present, and future. Crush is a man who is either a complete scammer or paralyzed by the prospect of writing more than ten words a week, and either way this is 100% guaranteed to bring to a halt whatever notional progress is being made.

I've said that it would take two years for him to finish implementing the lifepath, but upon reflection I think that it might easily be four or five years even for a halfassed rendering to be completed. This is a guy who hasn't produced a meaningful update in...what, seven months now? Even someone who works faster and is both honest and competent might well conclude that it would be easier and faster just to start the project over from scratch than take on the awkward and frustrating task of figuring out how to apply all the mechanics he's introduced and abandoned both to everything that has come before and everything that will come in the future as well as writing who-knows-how-many variations of scenes he's already written, provide new paths in already existing material that would open or close depending on your variables. And we all know Crush loves to restart this game.

Again, the main problem with the lifepaths isn't that it's not required for the novel that this venture currently is, it's that it would be an effort toward converting a half-written novel to a game, with all that entails. Half a dozen personality types (which is what he's established the lifepath would produce) require not just half a dozen variations of each scene, but half a dozen alternate paths through major sections of the game, with unique scenes in each and...well, look, Crush can't even write a consistent portrayal of one personality type, how's he gonna handle six? He can't handle writing scenes to progress the default, so he's suddenly going to handle his workload sextupling?

Diversion into lifepaths is just Crush's way of throttling back expectations to zero and keeping that sweet, sweet Patreon tit squirting the milk for another ten years or more.
Its just a scam, he is making 5k a month in Patreon, and every major update this shit gets is like 5 scenes max. Like there is no personal life excuse, since he makes more than enough money to live of this, and even hire help.
 

Lerox

Member
Jun 13, 2018
137
228
In last post on PATREON he wrote - " We’re prepping the next episode for release, and it’ll be with you shortly".
What does it mean shortly, it almost twoo weekas and ..., where is the new episode?
 

Senor Smut

Member
Aug 11, 2020
125
469
In last post on PATREON he wrote - " We’re prepping the next episode for release, and it’ll be with you shortly".
What does it mean shortly, it almost twoo weekas and ..., where is the new episode?
On his Discord, his use of the word "soon" is a running joke even among his ardent defenders, so much so that they made a SOON(TM) emoji that gets attached to every post where he says it. It means literally nothing whatsoever. It could easily be another four months.
 

FromLv

New Member
May 8, 2019
12
13
The version he shared with supporters was close to "release ready", lots of red links (mostly cosmetic choices as we know) but all three parts otherwise complete. So hopefully release in next week or two.
 

vicaddict

Member
Sep 29, 2019
186
346
The version he shared with supporters was close to "release ready", lots of red links (mostly cosmetic choices as we know) but all three parts otherwise complete. So hopefully release in next week or two.
So by Christmas, you mean?
 

SuperMaxo

Active Member
Nov 3, 2017
774
565
Hi, made mod with new plot, should be installed on v1.20.1p to be played (probably will work fine even on new versions)
If someone can share it on discord (community mods), I would be grateful
I could share it on Discord, I suppose, but then I would need to know more about what your mod does. « With New plot » is a little vague…
 
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notaname000

Newbie
Oct 28, 2017
24
20
Does anyone perusing this thing actually care whether it's a "game" or "novel" they are fapping to, and they'll zip up and leave if it's the latter? Because such concept is entirely meme-worthy.
Just want to weigh in here because I have definitely zipped up and left some novels thinking I would have stayed if it was a game, and thought it was funny that you described me doing this so succinctly yet incredulously.

Here's the reasons being a game is sometimes important:
  1. If I just wanted visual stimulus there's a ton of porn out there, and some poorly drawn avatar is not going to do it for me.
  2. Adding a story is going to add some mental stimulus. In this case, this novel (and it is a novel with some alternative scenes) does a very good job of that (and obviously I wouldn't be here reading this post if it didn't).
  3. However, a lot of creators just don't write a good enough story. In some of these cases turning it into a game would add the mental stimulus necessary. As a novel I am a passive (or in this case mostly-passive) observer, but as a game I am the master of my own destiny. How do I get this girl to fuck me? The requirement to actually do work to get to the desired H-scene adds to my enjoyment of it. And while this is probably largely the Ikea effect, it has allowed me to enjoy games with bad enough stories and visuals that they wouldn't have made it as a novel or porn.
Also going to say I think Lifepath and skills stats are completely unnecessary here. I don't think the time it's going to take to code this is going to add to the enjoyment of this novel more than cranking out a few more chapters would - and like everyone I assume it's going to take him 2-3 years to implement. In this case I'm exciting to see where the story goes, and don't have to know if she lost her virginity to her high school boyfriend, or have unlocked some scene because I maxed out her allure skills.
 

ffive

Forum Fanatic
Jun 19, 2022
4,954
10,734
Just want to weigh in here because I have definitely zipped up and left some novels thinking I would have stayed if it was a game, and thought it was funny that you described me doing this so succinctly yet incredulously.
I'm sorry if this will sound mean (it's not my intention) but thank you for a good laugh, because the mental image of this is just too funny.

I do get your point though, and i think we can actually agree on it. Having more interactivity so to speak can make up for shortcomings of the story (and/or helps to produce "your own story" so to speak) so yes, it can be beneficial.
 

SikaNauta

Newbie
Jul 21, 2017
76
113
In this case I'm exciting to see where the story goes, and don't have to know if she lost her virginity to her high school boyfriend, or have unlocked some scene because I maxed out her allure skills.
I first came across this "game" when it was quite new and I was somewhat pissed off that it promised a mission in Bangkok, but had only the training part in Scotland. Flash forward a few (or five) years and Thailand is there, hooray! Now the training part is gone, but there is a separate part of the "game" available that goes back to the main character's childhood and days at college? What the fuck for? How far back does the story have to go to give the proper background info? The point is the mission in Bangkok and that's it. I can appreciate and tolerate an intro that's maybe 15-30 minutes of playtime, but at this rate, we'll be years down the line just to find out if the MC:s great-grandparents fucked under the covers or not.

I like the descriptions of the city and the club, those really set this one apart. The mood, the setting and the amount of background work that has gone into this is quite remarkable, but I have completely given up on this "game" ever becoming an actual game or making any significant progress. It is a pity, it could have been something special. However, all the circus around this "game" has become the main point of interest for me. Is he a scammer or just incompetent? Is the next update two days away, as promised, or will it be two months? What are the excuses this time? Just how little work can he do to satisfy his simps? How long will his discord stand for this before revolting? This is riveting stuff and I'm hooked. The "game" doesn't really matter to me anymore.
 
May 12, 2024
21
48
Meh. Cut down on the meta commentary and try for more natural dialog. Premise would fit FBI more than CIA.
Thanks for review, maybe it would really more fit FBI, but I reused content available already in game for CIA, so it made development faster, I dont think it worth the effort to change that.
about "Cut down on the meta commentary and try for more natural dialog", can you be more precise? Like providing exact examples how to? Like:
Before: "Good afternoon Kira. How's the situation?" Colby answers the call.
After: "Hi Kira. Whats up?" Colby answers the call.
 

Alleykatt

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2017
1,352
1,958
Parsifal, great job in the adaptation. A really nice modification. I agree with the other guy that this would be either FBI or Homeland Security since it is illegal for the CIA to operate on US soil. But a great idea to adapt this, especially if you can produce content more quickly than Crush! It's a shame you don't have access to his artist to make new outfits etc. I would imagine though that it would be fairly easy to make extra media (like the npc faces) with AI.
 
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