- Aug 22, 2018
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I used to live on max $1300 a month (tipped job), which is about 1065.61€. I heavily agree with this sentiment, I was working 50 hours a week minimum and made less than they do. I can agree that they shouldn't be making this much, donations or not.
The dev should honestly take a few days to decide if this is really something they enjoy, and if they are able to sustain it. Because currently, they're not at all. The amount of bugs that are still present, from before you could even enter the Orc Village, or get bimbo'd, is appalling. If they really cared about their donators, they'd release a statement acknowledging this, and decide to fix them before continuing with more updates. The fact that they've continued building up on an unstable foundation says otherwise though.
Before anyone jumps down my throat for saying this, yes I was a Patron. A long time ago, before the addition of the Orc Village. I was poor and stopped my meager $5 contribution. Also, just as a tidbit because I love semantics. Being a patron can also be defined as being a customer, so do with that what you will. No hate to anyone still supporting the project, I just hate seeing people's hard-earned money being conned out of them.
- Nov 21, 2019
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Let me start off first by saying i agree 100% with your second sentence, and he already kind of has come out as saying he was through with this game a year or so ago, when he had depression yada yada.
"I can agree that they shouldn't be making this much, donations or not." Why? Why does it even matter? Do you hate him or something for getting money(seriously?)? And if it's the amount that's the issue, how much would you say would be a fair amount for him to get from donations?(i genuinely want to know this one).
Peeps are not "getting ripped off". They are not forced to give him their money and i assumed those peeps have played the game and yet still CHOOSE to donate. You even said you were a Patron and yet you stopped being one meaning it's possible to stop.
And the "being a customer" part i don't fully agree with either otherwise that would mean whenever you donate to a charity or hobo or whatever you ...become their customer? If it was a "kickstarter" sure, but not like this.
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- Aug 22, 2018
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No, hate would be a silly thing to waste on a person I've never met. I don't even dislike them, hence suggesting "The dev should honestly take a few days to decide if this is really something they enjoy, and if they are able to sustain it." I've been there, I've been burnt out where I can't even look at what I've been working on. Let alone actually get something done. It happens, that's why people always say to make sure you don't burn yourself out.
Well, that's the thing about hope. You keep pushing, even if you know it's over. This has become especially prevalent in kickstarter-adjacent services, because it's so easy to put in your CC and forget. It's not a matter of force, it's a matter of whether or not WhiteRaven still feels as though they can get content done. Keeping a Patreon up despite no real intention to work on the project is bad practice, and arguing that there's no issue with that becomes a bad faith argument. Unfortunately much of project funding sites like Patreon and SubscribeStar still operate in a legal "grey area" where there hasn't been much legal precedence to decide what's okay and what's not.
This is definitely a bad faith argument. Do you really believe supporting an adult game is the same as donating to charity or a homeless person? We both know why people "donate" their money to Patreons, it's for a service. It's no different than purchasing an Early Access game via Steam. You're purchasing it now, knowing that nothing is set in stone and may not have as many bugs ironed out as a v1.0 (hopefully) would have. Mighty No. 9 also comes to mind, the Not-Mega Man but made by one of the guys who made Mega Man and the MC just happens to be blue, short, and blast things from his hand. Total commercial failure. No legal action was taken (as far as I'm aware) by Capcom, so that was entirely on the development team on Mighty No. 9. And just a heads up, they had two simultaneous Kickstarter for two separate games, the other being Not-Mega Man Legends but also just a Mega Man Legends knockoff executed poorly by one of the developers for Mega Man.
I have sympathy for developers, I do. Especially up-and-comers that are trying to make a name for themselves. However if you plan to start a crowdfunding campaign, you have to communicate. There's just no way around it. Because otherwise, as your development stalls and you maintain radio silence, people like me start cropping up. Former supporters that feel spurned, and ruin the next up-and-comer's chance to have the same opportunity you squandered.
Tl;dr Crowdfunding a game is not the fucking same as helping out a homeless person. One person is perfectly capable of working a regular job, the homeless person is probably suffering from 1 or 10 mental illnesses that prevent them from being a functioning member of society. To even suggest that they are similar is bad faith, and shameful.
My apologies, I don't hate you either if it comes off that way. Just, homeless people have it far worse than a dev who lost their inspiration. One needs your assistance to live another day, the other just quietly takes your money and fucks off.
- Nov 21, 2019
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1) You don't know this is the case(for everyone) and are just speculating.
2) I don't think it is a bad faith argument. Yes i could have used better examples then the "extremes" i choose. How about i frame it like this: You give money to an "Artist" because you like their work but don't expect anything in return. You just want to support them. But their latest work is shit(in YOUR eyes) but others don't see it that way and so continue to sponsor them. Would you feel like you wasted your money? Maybe you would as it's subjective what peeps like. The point is the same. Donations are donations. Support is support. You can twist the words how you want but it doesn't change the meaning. You are only looking at 1 side of this and unless you KNOW every reason why each person is giving you shouldn't just assume it's because they want something in return.
3) No problems here. I'm very blunt with how i respond so get it
No hate intended just some good old fashion discussion. And #not all Devs. White Raven as i have pieced together has it ROUGH and that might be an understatement. Just as you think those who are donating have "false hope" you should probably lower your expectations a bit.As for sites like Patreon and SubscribeStar being "shaddy" well yeah they are,but to be fair peeps have to look after their own stuff at some point especially their money.
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- Aug 22, 2018
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Yeah that's been going on for a long while. The best advice I can give is save before and after every scene. I know it's frustrating, but it's the best chance you'll have to make it through. Bogwart's scenes are especially heinous with this (at least for me).
- Nov 21, 2019
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Tau_Iota
I'm talking to you because you are talking back and i find this engaging to pick at the nuances of this.
I'm talking to you because you are talking back and i find this engaging to pick at the nuances of this.
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- Aug 22, 2018
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- Nov 21, 2019
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- Jun 8, 2020
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every time someone posts something I get the hope it might be an update but nah
Same, but its 50/50 chance because as for late all of them sucked XD. Still love the game hope 4 some nice update though...every time someone posts something I get the hope it might be an update but nah
- Sep 20, 2018
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- Nov 21, 2019
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- Jun 8, 2020
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- Jun 8, 2020
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Mate I have checking his patreon everyday if there's something about new update but it was May 9 th when the last update 3.4.2 came out