VN Ren'Py Completed A Promise Best Left Unkept [Bonus S2 Ep 9-11] [Hangover Cat]

[inye59]

For instance,

If my woman slept with another man, I would feel jealous and sad. And may try to save her.

If my woman had sex with more than a dozen men, I would only feel disgusted and numb, and would like to break up with her at the first time.

I agree with you. Thats why i don't enjoy NTR games.I like all the game all of it. all but the ends usually suck. and the problem is that the more good(well writen) the game is the more those game feels "drafts" unfinished lazy worked.

I have question for you guys that hate the NTR category. do you still continue to play the game knowing there are some bad ntr scenes which you guys hate? or you guys just idk.. play Harry's perspective. idk it's just that you guys know the game is about NTR and you guys still want it to have a good ending. idk if I'm just talking shit, I'm just curious.

Well i don't hate them i like them a lot just before the ending. I understand that a requirement for something to be NTR is a no happy end and i don't ask a Disney ending.
But the cycle motive-> cheat->quilts->more orgasms->sex driven orientet-> lost to the dick->ulitmate betrayal->total lost of former self is clumsy.
HCat writes very well in the games her lie i tried to believe and in the game the edge of he really put you in the mind and the way the MC things and thats very hard to do. as for the edge of the main protagonist was a total idiot an i would dump him and cheat on him
but that from all the other things the female character did was out of place.
my approach would be as far as the FemChar accepts that she loves dick and fucking.
cheat yes. emotional betrayal yes
lies flings yes
consensuall cuckolding and eating another man creampies cuck cages etc. yes
Emotional abuse from the antagonist yes
emotioanl abuse form the FemChar depends how dick is the MC is and howhis behavior is justified
dead end situations no
I am not blaming anyone there and is my opinion and how i would approach the game.

 

[dean_athallah]

Personally, I sincerely hope that HC doesn't do anything like this.

After all the time Luca has invested in Laura, taming her body, breaking down the walls in her mind, and the slow yet steady revelation of her true character, to throw all that away by having him pass her off to a group of randos? God, that would be so disappointing. Even as a bad ending.

Just my two cents, though.

I think the best bad ending would simply involve Harry moving on and being happy while Laura ends up either alone or in a loveless relationship with Luca as one of his women.

Then, one day a few years into the future, she'd be walking down the street when she would see none other than Harry coming in the opposite direction. He'd be smiling and laughing with a beautiful woman walking next to him and, walking between the two of them, a small girl who could only be their daughter. Laura would see this, see how happy he is with this new woman, with his new family, and realize for the first time just how much she has lost; how much she has thrown away. She'd stand there, paralyzed on the sidewalk, unable to do anything but stare at Harry as he gradually gets closer, dreading the moment when he would finally notice her presence.

But he never does.

He's so invested in his family that he just walks by as if she isn't even there. And, somehow, that makes her feel even worse. As Laura listens to the sound of their happy voices slowly fading into the distance, she remembers how Harry had once treated her with that same kind of single-minded love and devotion. As tears begin to fall from her eyes, she smiles to herself sadly.

...It was good to see that he hadn't changed.

Fade to black.

And then we will get a sequel of luca stealing harry's wife again.

 

[Nifferman]

Personally, I sincerely hope that HC doesn't do anything like this.

After all the time Luca has invested in Laura, taming her body, breaking down the walls in her mind, and the slow yet steady revelation of her true character, to throw all that away by having him pass her off to a group of randos? God, that would be so disappointing. Even as a bad ending.

Just my two cents, though.

I think the best bad ending would simply involve Harry moving on and being happy while Laura ends up either alone or in a loveless relationship with Luca as one of his women.

Then, one day a few years into the future, she'd be walking down the street when she would see none other than Harry coming in the opposite direction. He'd be smiling and laughing with a beautiful woman walking next to him and, walking between the two of them, a small girl who could only be their daughter. Laura would see this, see how happy he is with this new woman, with his new family, and realize for the first time just how much she has lost; how much she has thrown away. She'd stand there, paralyzed on the sidewalk, unable to do anything but stare at Harry as he gradually gets closer, dreading the moment when he would finally notice her presence.

But he never does.

He's so invested in his family that he just walks by as if she isn't even there. And, somehow, that makes her feel even worse. As Laura listens to the sound of their happy voices slowly fading into the distance, she remembers how Harry had once treated her with that same kind of single-minded love and devotion. As tears begin to fall from her eyes, she smiles to herself sadly.

...It was good to see that he hadn't changed.

Fade to black.

Damn that's some god level fanfiction

 

[RedTomato]

Correct. According to the current plot, Luca feels that he and Laura are also in tune, and has repeatedly asked Laura to be his woman. I don't think that under such a premise, Luca is likely to share Laura with others. Even for the purpose of showing off the "booty", he is more likely to do it to Harry alone.


In addition, I personally dislike the situation that there are multiple antagonists or group sex in the NTR story. Admittedly, it would be sexy to regard "A woman degenerates into indulging in the pleasure of mating and is willing to have sex with any male around her" as an independent scene, but it would be superficial to put it in the story of HC, which pays attention to a large number of psychological descriptions.


I think the degeneration in the NTR story should also grasp the limit. The ideal fall of FMC feels like a fish bone stuck in throat: you can neither take it out nor swallow it.


For instance,

If my woman slept with another man, I would feel jealous and sad. And may try to save her.

If my woman had sex with more than a dozen men, I would only feel disgusted and numb, and would like to break up with her at the first time.

Harry has known Laura for a long time, I don't think he'd just brush off seeing her fall to such extremes, especially if she had an air of resignation about her rather than glee.

It's like seeing someone you've known for a long time become a different person under the influence of drugs, most people don't just feel disgust at them, they feel sympathy, sadness and helplessness, even as they do fucked up things.

I think many people would be devastated to know that a loved one fell to such depths in an effort to protect them, hence why I think if such a scene were to be written it would have to be with her showing a distinct lack of enthusiasm (think the MC's mom in Pale Carnations).

As for Luca wanting Laura to be "his woman", that just strikes me as his way of fucking with her mind. He's done this before, it would be more in character for him to destroy their relationship out of twisted personal amusement and then move on to other things. From that perspective, it would make a lot of sense for him to debase her further by having others use her; especially if it gets him something in return.

 

[Puma1978]

I really appreciate that there will be more endings available and hope that Dev will not take this too easy and gives us too much abrupt endings but such ones with longer paths, a proper story and logic...;-)
At such games i really like to play all paths and try to get all endings because thats what makes a game interesting.
Its not only to satisfy a specific fetish but i like when Devs takes the effort and offers different brenches and consequences for decissions player do in games. The game has really interesting potential to create twists because it could also happen that Laura does not really fall for Luca but at a time confesses to Harry and they plan some sort of revenge scenario.
Great game so far .

 

[inye59]

I really appreciate that there will be more endings available and hope that Dev will not take this too easy and gives us too much abrupt endings but such ones with longer paths, a proper story and logic...;-)
At such games i really like to play all paths and try to get all endings because thats what makes a game interesting.
Its not only to satisfy a specific fetish but i like when Devs takes the effort and offers different brenches and consequences for decissions player do in games. The game has really interesting potential to create twists because it could also happen that Laura does not really fall for Luca but at a time confesses to Harry and they plan some sort of revenge scenario.
Great game so far .

I agree 100% with you.

 

[Black945]

Harry has known Laura for a long time, I don't think he'd just brush off seeing her fall to such extremes, especially if she had an air of resignation about her rather than glee.

It's like seeing someone you've known for a long time become a different person under the influence of drugs, most people don't just feel disgust at them, they feel sympathy, sadness and helplessness, even as they do fucked up things.

I think many people would be devastated to know that a loved one fell to such depths in an effort to protect them, hence why I think if such a scene were to be written it would have to be with her showing a distinct lack of enthusiasm (think the MC's mom in Pale Carnations).

As for Luca wanting Laura to be "his woman", that just strikes me as his way of fucking with her mind. He's done this before, it would be more in character for him to destroy their relationship out of twisted personal amusement and then move on to other things. From that perspective, it would make a lot of sense for him to debase her further by having others use her; especially if it gets him something in return.

Well, maybe this is our different understanding of NTR. Let's first quote two HC's replies on Discord:

“My own definition of NTR is when the girl is not only falling for the bull physically but also emotionally. So I have a real hard time writing things such as gangbang since that would mean that the girl is willing to do it with everyone, which would then mean that she’s a slut. But if she’s a slut, the NTR becomes kind of pointless. I’m not saying I won’t be writing gangbang in the future, by the way, I’m just saying it doesn’t correlate with my own idea of what NTR means.”

“...but one of the reasons why the main character for me needs to be flawed is that it gives a lot of reason for the occurrence of NTR to begin with. If the MC is a suitable mate who’s almost equal to the antagonist and the girl still decides to cheat, then it becomes a lot harder to justify her actions. It inevitably makes the girl look like a slut. And I would personally argue that if the girl is a slut, then the NTR aspect becomes a whole lot weaker. Because you’re not losing against someone per se. It’s no longer a question of inferiority. It just means that she would do it with anyone.”

It can be seen that although Luca constantly humiliates Laura with "slut" in the story, HC still tries to avoid portraying Laura as a true slut in the creation. Indeed, as you said, Harry and Laura have known each other for a long time and have deep feelings. However,for readers, the understanding of Laura may only be a few hours, and this work does not use the preface to pave the process from acquaintance to love. Therefore, there is an "Empathy gap" between readers and Harry about Laura.

In order to minimize the impact of empathy gap and make readers feel the same jealousy and sadness about Laura's corruption, this process should not be too drastic. HC has also spent a lot of time in describing Laura's psychological activities to justify her corruption. In fact, not to mention that Laura had sex with a group of people, even the last time Laura changed her hair and dress like a slut, many readers began to feel sudden and unacceptable.

 

[jaden000]

Gangbangs or group sex ruins the strength of NTR ‍and I care less if it is included in the story

 

[Terix3]

It can be seen that although Luca constantly humiliates Laura with "slut" in the story, HC still tries to avoid portraying Laura as a true slut in the creation. Indeed, as you said, Harry and Laura have known each other for a long time and have deep feelings. However,for readers, the understanding of Laura may only be a few hours, and this work does not use the preface to pave the process from acquaintance to love. Therefore, there is an "Empathy gap" between readers and Harry about Laura.

In order to minimize the impact of empathy gap and make readers feel the same jealousy and sadness about Laura's corruption, this process should not be too drastic. HC has also spent a lot of time in describing Laura's psychological activities to justify her corruption. In fact, not to mention that Laura had sex with a group of people, even the last time Laura changed her hair and dress like a slut, many readers began to feel sudden and unacceptable.

Gangbangs or group sex ruins the strength of NTR ‍and I care less if it is included in the story

I personally disagree that group sex makes NTR weaker but i'm not coming to NTR for jealousy but for corruption. If girl only cheats with one partner is she really getting corrupted or simply changing bf? I'm having more generic ntr in mind, obviously HC put attention to showcase how her attitude towards other changes. But when it comes to sex the corruption is neverless lacking, she still believes sex to be for that one person rather then a weapon she can use.

even the last time Laura changed her hair and dress like a slut, many readers began to feel sudden and unacceptable.

The problem was not whatever it was sudden or not but rather that it was presented as a regular corruption trope - she is corrupted therefore she needs to under go hair color change- without bringing anything to the story. Did her change cause Harry to take some action or he is agreeing to everything as usual? Also her blonde hair had to be darkened in order for her to not look exactly like Aya and that just makes her hair look bad / weird.

 

[bai_pyrvan]

I also come to the NTR for the corruption/cheating, not for jealousy, but gangbang with Laura simply doesn't fit to this game - to this story, in its current route(s). For me it will be like something falling from the sky, making a scene just because it will be hot as a scene, but out of all logic to the course of the events so far.


Maybe acceptable something like this - if Laura is blindfolded during sex and Luca simply tricks her, so she to realize somewhere in the middle of it. Or some side scene with Laura's mother - she is whore, so group sex for her seems more than normal. But Luca offering Laura to his friends and she to agree - this just doesn't look OK, will be too much fall for me, and not realistic at all.

 

[Deleted member 398727]

I don't know the original creator of this image but it is hilarious. I think it is a really good example of "What is not NTR?" or "What is bad/cheap NTR?".

Spoiler

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[Terix3]

Obviously it is about setting things right in the story for the scene to happen. Atm Luca did not display the desire to whore out Laura but in another route he could be doing that.
On the other hand Laura becoming corrupted in the sense that sex isn't anything special to her could try to get some favors from higher ups - let's say she would try to get the recording with Harry taking USB deleted.
Or a bad/abrupt end idea - Laura attempts to get some thugs to attack Luca and agrees to sex as payment, but then they turn out to be in Lucas group to begin with and she ends up being cumdump for the lowest ranked members.

 

[Black945]

If girl only cheats with one partner is she really getting corrupted or simply changing bf?

That's what NTR happens in most real situations,and still hurts, right? Anyway, I think you mentioned a very important point. When I read some reviews of other NTR works, I can always see some comments like "Only having sex with one antagonist? Now it looks more like a real love!! There is no corruption at all. Come on, Why not let FMC have sex with that tramp / gangster / otaku?"

Personally, I think the quintessence of NTR works is the separation of sex (body) and love (spirit). "Since you are defeated in sex, in order to continue to live with her, you have to endure a third person's intervention in your relationship , especially this" third person "is still a villain who has repeatedly bullied you." This humiliating, distorted and irresistible experience will bring a great psychological stimulation.

But the premise of this relationship is that there is still "love" between MC and FMC. It may sound cruel, but if all the character traits that once attracted MC disappear, what is his motivation to choose to love her and live with her? Of course, you can say that it is out of a sense of responsibility, but perhaps as HC said, "if she's a slut, the NTR becomes kind of pointless."

So, I think the degree of corruption needs to be carefully controlled. If you don't think that "having sex with a group of men" will significantly weaken Laura's personality, that's totally fine. Even in some Japanese NTR Doujins, the FMC end up quitting their jobs, having sex with antagonist all day, going to brothels for prostitution, urinating in public, and even having sex with dogs.

But all those will be too much fall for me, and they are not attractive at all.

 

[beoroa21123]

HC on Discord

" My own definition of NTR is when the girl is not only falling for the bull physically but also emotionally. So I have a real hard time writing things such as gangbang since that would mean that the girl is willing to do it with everyone, which would then mean that she’s a slut. But if she’s a slut, the NTR becomes kind of pointless. I’m not saying I won’t be writing gangbang in the future, by the way, I’m just saying it doesn’t correlate with my own idea of what NTR means.”

“...but one of the reasons why the main character for me needs to be flawed is that it gives a lot of reason for the occurrence of NTR to begin with. If the MC is a suitable mate who’s almost equal to the antagonist and the girl still decides to cheat, then it becomes a lot harder to justify her actions. It inevitably makes the girl look like a slut. And I would personally argue that if the girl is a slut, then the NTR aspect becomes a whole lot weaker. Because you’re not losing against someone per se. It’s no longer a question of inferiority. It just means that she would do it with anyone.”

I'm basically on same page with HC, I'm glad.

I hope people will stop pursuing HC to make gangbang scene or at least hold it until all endings are finished.

 

[inye59]

Gangbangs or group sex ruins the strength of NTR ‍and I care less if it is included in the story

I saw that many wrote about ntr and gangbang. i agree that gangbang doesn't contribute to NTR but adds
another step towards the moral degeneratio of the character. The way the most people say it I perceive it as
when something stops to be NTR. And that a strange conclusion..The way i understand it is constant lie to the MC
and orgasm attach to the antagonist and we hit a point which the Fem Char or will pive up on the Main Char or she
will keep him and cheat on him althought he loves him but can't controll her pussy.After that point we can call it cuckoldry
cheating, slutification, what ever.

 

[RedTomato]

Well, maybe this is our different understanding of NTR. Let's first quote two HC's replies on Discord:

I think sometimes people get too caught up in tag definitions, the story comes first and if HC doesn't want to include it for whatever reason (doesn't think it fits, doesn't personally like it, etc) then that's the end of it. To be clear, I'm not saying you're doing this, just that I've noticed people get too caught up in debating semantics on some tag rather than the actual story.

I was just making the argument that I think it could fit the story, but as I said it would have to be done in a way that shows her as not being happy about it.

It can be seen that although Luca constantly humiliates Laura with "slut" in the story, HC still tries to avoid portraying Laura as a true slut in the creation.

As far as the slut thing is concerned, to expand on my earlier example, I don't think it would be remotely fair to dismiss the mom in Pale Carnations as a slut, despite having been in some nasty gangbangs.

I get what you're saying about an 'empathy gap' though, perhaps it would take a lengthier story to justify things getting truly debauched.

Anyway, I'm happy with this VN either way, I've really enjoyed HC's writing so far.

 

[Terix3]

That's what NTR happens in most real situations,and still hurts, right? Anyway, I think you mentioned a very important point. When I read some reviews of other NTR works, I can always see some comments like "Only having sex with one antagonist? Now it looks more like a real love!! There is no corruption at all. Come on, Why not let FMC have sex with that tramp / gangster / otaku?"

Personally, I think the quintessence of NTR works is the separation of sex (body) and love (spirit). "Since you are defeated in sex, in order to continue to live with her, you have to endure a third person's intervention in your relationship , especially this" third person "is still a villain who has repeatedly bullied you." This humiliating, distorted and irresistible experience will bring a great psychological stimulation.

But the premise of this relationship is that there is still "love" between MC and FMC. It may sound cruel, but if all the character traits that once attracted MC disappear, what is his motivation to choose to love her and live with her? Of course, you can say that it is out of a sense of responsibility, but perhaps as HC said, "if she's a slut, the NTR becomes kind of pointless."

So, I think the degree of corruption needs to be carefully controlled. If you don't think that "having sex with a group of men" will significantly weaken Laura's personality, that's totally fine. Even in some Japanese NTR Doujins, the FMC end up quitting their jobs, having sex with antagonist all day, going to brothels for prostitution, urinating in public, and even having sex with dogs.

But all those will be too much fall for me, and they are not attractive at all.

Like i've said the difference is in what you seek in NTR, if you are for jealousy then obviously you want the girl to be still "valuable" person. Making her a real slut will make her less desirable as partner and therefore the jealousy will be reduced.
However the total degradation can be used in humiliation (all the nobodies can make her cum but you can't trope) and revenge (jealousy leading to desire to punish the girl) aspects.

Now for corruption aspect when the she stops at one partner then the corruption becomes weak souse and the question you quoted pops up. Yes it happens in real life a lot and because of that is also less interesting, there are so many shows dealing with couple cheating. I think the charm of reading fiction is that it can push things beyond what can happen in real life.

You touched on the separation of body and mind (spirit) when it comes to corruption. If i understand you right the body of heroine gets defiled but "the mind/spirit" is still what the MC is to be in love with and continue relationship. But doesn't the mind get corrupted in this game more then body ? She only has one other partner and their sex relationship originated basically from rape. It's her mind that gets messed up with more - she starts hating other people for being weak and blames the MC for being guilty of everything.

Yea i don't think personality is being reduced by the amount of sexual partners, it's the society set standards that are being impacted. I think it is fully possible for the FMC to embrace sex as weapon and fight it with while having mind of upmost standards.

I think sometimes people get too caught up in tag definitions, the story comes first and if HC doesn't want to include it for whatever reason (doesn't think it fits, doesn't personally like it, etc) then that's the end of it. To be clear, I'm not saying you're doing this, just that I've noticed people get too caught up in debating semantics on some tag rather than the actual story.

This is not about tag definitions but about what people seek in ntr and for certain people seek different things. It is unknown whatever we can influence HC to include certain things or not. On one hand he said he won't get swayed by what people want but on the other he also stated that he is still learning what people are looking for in ntr.

 

[Black945]

You touched on the separation of body and mind (spirit) when it comes to corruption. If i understand you right the body of heroine gets defiled but "the mind/spirit" is still what the MC is to be in love with and continue relationship. But doesn't the mind get corrupted in this game more then body ?

In fact, "the separation of body and mind" I mentioned mainly refers to a balance between the three. Of course, I agree with you. At least in normal ending, Laura's body and mind have been away from Harry at the same time. Due to Harry's obliviousness, he may not be involved in the core issues until the end of the story. Therefore, in this line, it is mainly a game between Laura and Luca. Now Harry is more like an ignorant blind man looking forward to the coming of a "happy" life.


But it is certain that according to the conditions for different endings given by HC, Harry will definitely find Laura's abnormality in other routes and take corresponding actions: he may try to recover it or change it. Laura's side may also waver based on their communications. How can a balance be reached between the three on the premise that all information is transparent? Then that is the time to introduce the separation of body and mind. Anyway, this is just a typical example in my mind. As for the specific plot, it depends on how HC will write it.

 

[Terix3]

In fact, "the separation of body and mind" I mentioned mainly refers to a balance between the three. Of course, I agree with you. At least in normal ending, Laura's body and mind have been away from Harry at the same time. Due to Harry's obliviousness, he may not be involved in the core issues until the end of the story. Therefore, in this line, it is mainly a game between Laura and Luca. Now Harry is more like an ignorant blind man looking forward to the coming of a "happy" life.

Ok so given that Laura is "away" from MC in both body and mind, then the jealous aspect of the NTR would be the weakest here, right ? Since she is "different" person then whom MC have fallen in love with, once he would realize that he is expected to drop her. As such i think the jealous aspect wouldn't really suffer from adding other partners and it would be the best route to add a gangbang scene. (Ignoring whatever it fits story)

 

[jaden000]

At the end of day the main thing I am excited for is Laura’s Mom sex scenes