RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.9.6] [Chyos]

[Evangelion-01]

Does it matter if the orcs see you when you go to rescue Katherin or not?

Arenfeld is positioned in a nice spot to be an economic powerhouse, you got plenty of lumber cause of the forest and an iron mine, tons of farmland and a river/lake too. Would be neat if the mine could be upgraded to produce more iron, by equipping miners with better tools/hiring more miners/delving deeper into the mine so you have access to more/rarer ore. Personally, I liked the upgrading buildings bit.

Thi would require MC and his band to first clean out the mine... an Option up to vote

 

[Adoringfan]

Thi would require MC and his band to first clean out the mine... an Option up to vote

That damned vote, I still remember the dark times where every vote was for more rumah/tia updates, it was bleak times.

 

[zARRR]

Does it matter if the orcs see you when you go to rescue Katherin or not?

Arenfeld is positioned in a nice spot to be an economic powerhouse, you got plenty of lumber cause of the forest and an iron mine, tons of farmland and a river/lake too. Would be neat if the mine could be upgraded to produce more iron, by equipping miners with better tools/hiring more miners/delving deeper into the mine so you have access to more/rarer ore. Personally, I liked the upgrading buildings bit.

Yeah it matters

It would be very, very neat

That damned vote, I still remember the dark times where every vote was for more rumah/tia updates, it was bleak times.

I know, but those pesky patrons sometimes sneak something even worse.

Chyos is completely disorganized on that aspects of the poll, and it irritates as much as the next person (except the die hard patrons).
I was against the idea to put 3 more main polls, but it happened anyways, and one certain (coff coff Umah coff) will sadly skyrocket the others.
At least he promised not to add more and will wait for the main ones to end.

Bonus scene poll is another story

 

[acowasto]

You miss the access to Kathias house at the mountain range which is directly connected to the hunting ground where we regulary can encounter Orc patrols.
The eastern area is also a bad fit as there is vast flat lands that can easily allow the installation of siege weapons and it's sadly on the direct route to Kirlic, which is the place we had to expect an army to come from... if we want to integrate Pennys former fields into this area we should build fortifications at the bridge/river in the east, but those wouldn't last long if the army build some catapult close to that ruin.

Well, those maps on which we do our business are not directly connected to eachother. There is way more distance between them. If you look at the travel map, hunting grounds clearing is far on the north west side of Darkwood, while mercenary camp is somewhat in the center of it. It's pretty far from Arenfield. As for fields I can't really tell where they are located on the map, because river of fields map doesn't overlap with the river on the travel map, so I can only assume there is a plateau slope a bit further east of Arenfield and then farm fields start for the sake of fortifying village. Sadly, same goes for Kath's house. I don't know how far up the moutain her house is so, again, for the sake of fortifying Arenfield, I'm going to assume that single house is just way too far up the moutain to be consider worth of notice.

And bulding a chinese wall around whole area would be rather pointless. It would require way too much money, resources and labor to build. Not to mention manpower and constant patrols to make sure nobody is to weaken it before the assault. If orcs or Eric forces would like to siege Arenfield from east, then so be it. They can have those fields to set up thier camps and siege engines. Until they encircle Arenfield from the north to east through the Darkwood and cut off south road to Arenfield, they can be harassed by small squads send up the north or down south.

I would rather start by at least achive somewhat this...

Spoiler: Fortified Arenfield

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...before trying to fortify farmlands with outer bailey or another outer bailey down south to the Arenfield pass. First the center, then, maybe, the outer lands. Also I would turn Giron's house into local garrison barracks. We don't need a keep here.

Yeah I suspect unless we "poison" their water supply force is our only choice... we only need to transform their leaders and than use them to get strugglers/reinforcement from their homeland and patrolls to get turned.
I think it would be easy to restock the fortress in little time... maybe MC could interact with defeated Orcs like he does with mercaneries aswell to forcefeed them the tainted holy water

That might actually work. Before they will try to solve it, it will be too late. Still, I say slaughter them all... I need my experience to level up to 100.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Well, those maps on which we do our business are not directly connected to eachother. There is way more distance between them. If you look at the travel map, hunting grounds clearing is far on the north west side of Darkwood, while mercenary camp is somewhat in the center of it. It's pretty far from Arenfield. As for fields I can't really tell where they are located on the map, because river of fields map doesn't overlap with the river on the travel map, so I can only assume there is a plateau slope a bit further east of Arenfield and then farm fields start for the sake of fortifying village. Sadly, same goes for Kath's house. I don't know how far up the moutain her house is so, again, for the sake of fortifying Arenfield, I'm going to assume that single house is just way too far up the moutain to be consider worth of notice.

And bulding a chinese wall around whole area would be rather pointless. It would require way too much money, resources and labor to build. Not to mention manpower and constant patrols to make sure nobody is to weaken it before the assault. If orcs or Eric forces would like to siege Arenfield from east, then so be it. They can have those fields to set up thier camps and siege engines. Until they encircle Arenfield from the north to east through the Darkwood and cut off south road to Arenfield, they can be harassed by small squads send up the north or down south.

I would rather start by at least achive somewhat this...

Spoiler: Fortified Arenfield

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...before trying to fortify farmlands with outer bailey or another outer bailey down south to the Arenfield pass. First the center, then, maybe, the outer lands. Also I would turn Giron's house into local garrison barracks. We don't need a keep here.


That might actually work. Before they will try to solve it, it will be too late. Still, I say slaughter them all... I need my experience to level up to 100.

Again several issues in the details I'd say... most prominently we might be able to build a Pallisade and the already existing watchtowers... heck even some Rumah like gates thanks to Roderick and Rick but stone works is an entire different matter.
building a cobblestone wall is one thing for a carpenter but for a stone based fortification you'd need an architect and masoner whom are only available in Kirlic... attempting to recruit people for such an task would attract attention so unlikely a good idea.

For the nearby locations I suggest to check with the Mercanery map as it shows more Details for the close areas we are discussing about.

 

[acowasto]

Again several issues in the details I'd say... most prominently we might be able to build a Pallisade and the already existing watchtowers... heck even some Rumah like gates thanks to Roderick and Rick but stone works is an entire different matter.
building a cobblestone wall is one thing for a carpenter but for a stone based fortification you'd need an architect and masoner whom are only available in Kirlic... attempting to recruit people for such an task would attract attention so unlikely a good idea.

That's why i wrote " I would rather start by at least achive somewhat this before trying to fortify farmlands with outer bailey or another outer bailey down south to the Arenfield pass. ". In other words, it is what should aim for before we can try to secure more land with fortifications.

Building any kind of fortification would attract attention. Even the most simple palisade as a temporary solution. Any kind of improvment to the village won't just pass unnoticed, as all those things must be done in plain sight. There's no way to keep it a secret. At least not for long before someone will try to act on it. But before that we should be ready to protect it.
And while I agree with you about the need of specialized workers like masons and architect, it really doesn't interfere with the main objective of fortyfing Arenfield.

1. Build palisade around Arenfield to secure it.
2. Recruit mason's guild and architect.
3. Protect masons and architect from harm.
4. Gather stone for masons.
5. Wait for architect to finish his plans.
6. Build stone fortifications.
7. Plan further improvements/fortifications.

For the nearby locations I suggest to check with the Mercanery map as it shows more Details for the close areas we are discussing about.

Thanks. It looks like traven map and mercenary map are two different maps. But, still, things doesn't overlap. Farmlads on the map are after the bridge. While on the tile map they are before the bridge. But maybe I am just reading the map wrong. I am way too tired for this.

 

[Evangelion-01]

That's why i wrote " I would rather start by at least achive somewhat this before trying to fortify farmlands with outer bailey or another outer bailey down south to the Arenfield pass. ". In other words, it is what should aim for before we can try to secure more land with fortifications.

Stone walls are hard to remove so you'd limit Arenfield to these premises... fortifying and building several outposts that later can either be torn down or integrrated into the village seems a better Option in the long run... also walls alone offer no real protection... you'd need some siege weapons like the Balistas we had seen before... people capeable to use them and soldiers patrolling the walls.
the defence of a place grows with it's overall sice, villages tend to have guards and fences, bigger ones palisades.
Stone work fortifications come with cities.

Building any kind of fortification would attract attention. Even the most simple palisade as a temporary solution. Any kind of improvment to the village won't just pass unnoticed, as all those things must be done in plain sight. There's no way to keep it a secret. At least not for long before someone will try to act on it. But before that we should be ready to protect it.
And while I agree with you about the need of specialized workers like masons and architect, it really doesn't interfere with the main objective of fortyfing Arenfield.

Pallisades however offer little danger to the Kingdom and with the current threats to Arenfield even known to the King a Pallisade would still stand to reason.

Arenfields strongest defence are the natural blockades as it's positioned at the border to the mountains.
The south entrances holds the higher ground the Bandit outpost is right next to the only southern road leading to the frontlines apparently.
The entire western side is framed by the same mountains travelling those is hard and the only known path leads into the deeper woods/hunting grounds.

With everything said it seems to be a better idea to build some fortification at the ruined house in the eastern parts (Fort) and use the Mercanery basecamp to reinforce that location.
Use the bandit hideout after repairing and reinforceing the defence as another Mercanery Camp and in the north use Rumah+Orc Outpost to counter the Orcs... with time take over both the main Orc settlement while giving up that outpost and from there take posession of Callan's Rest again moveing the Orcs into their main settlement.
Than we can use both Rumah and Madra Ghaz to support and reinforce Callan's rest to secure the entire deep forest area from sentinent beings (Swamp fiends don't seem sentinent)...sure we'd likely still have to deal with some stragglers and Brigands but those can be used to increase our numbers or atleast help to maintain them as there will certainly be losses.
Stone fortifications are likely something in the far future when Arenfield has more than 100 citizens/families living in it's premises

 

[HentaiKami]

Stone fortifications are likely something in the far future when Arenfield has more than 100 citizens/families living in it's premises

Historically stone fortifications, larger than stone fences, have happened only on cities with population in over thousands. Building stone fortifications is expensive and time consuming work. Also i think Arenfield is actually bigger/more populated than we see, it's most likely the case as is often with games, that you can't really give accurate representation of the size of settlement due to limitations of engine etc... If anything i'd guess Arenfield's population would be well over 100, since outer farms like what Coldstone family runs would be counted into it.

 

[acowasto]

Stone walls are hard to remove so you'd limit Arenfield to these premises...

Well, yes, but that's would be the price for the advantage over the palisade, which can be rather easily burn down and, as I also wrote, a show of power to those around, to think twice before they try something. After all, not anyone can have a stone fortress. And there is still quite a lot of space inside Arenfield as buldings were build where people wanted. If you start squeezing buildings one to another, you can fit a lot of new ones.

Also, if needed, Arenfield could be expanded either east into fields or north into Darkwood, by cutting down trees and building outer bailey with palisade.

fortifying and building several outposts that later can either be torn down or integrrated into the village seems a better Option in the long run...

I'm going to agree and disagree with you on this at the same time.
Agree on having serveral outposts. Having multiple in the area would greatly improve control and security and surely would improve respond to any potential threat if needed.

Yet I have to disagree at the same time, because having multiple outposts scattered around the area without strong center from which those outposts can be supplied and to which troops can retreat if needed to is rather pointless.

Also I have to say Arenfield is in great strategic position of both, economic and military. Too good to not use it. Fotifying it with stone should be priority, as to having strong center in the area will allow to have multiple cards.
After all you can't travel from Varron to Kirlic, Parakis or Monastery without crossing through Arenfield unless you use a ship. Eventually you can try to create a new route south of Arenfield by traveling by coast line.
Also, it is impossible to encircle Arenfield fully without either ally or dividing your troops. Someone has to block the moutain path from the south in order to cut off any reinforcements, supplies or counter-attacking units. And someone has to the same from the north to east through Darkwood.

also walls alone offer no real protection... you'd need some siege weapons like the Balistas we had seen before... people capeable to use them and soldiers patrolling the walls.
the defence of a place grows with it's overall sice, villages tend to have guards and fences, bigger ones palisades.
Stone work fortifications come with cities.

Well yes, wall alone is just a... wall. But it offers security to those inside. Even without people defending it someone trying to get inside still have to do something, like at least building a latter.
But I disagree on the siege engines. You don't need them in order to defend Arenfield. As you said yourself, and I'll allow myself to quote:

Arenfields strongest defence are the natural blockades as it's positioned at the border to the mountains.

Road to Arenfield through the southern slopes is not only twisted but also narrow. Same at the entrace to it. You don't need huge force to defend that part of Arenfield. Unless, somehow, enemy forces can deploy there siege equipment and climb 20 or mroe meter high slopes and walls while under arrow and bolt fire.

As for north, good luck with moving with siege engines and army through dense forest of Darkwood. But let's just say someone managed to cut thier way from one clearing to another and from one forest path to another, there's still huge advantage for the defenders to launch an ambush from basically any direction.

The only problem would be defending east, because those fields are pretty nice spot for siege equipmet and army to build thier camp. I would rather launch harassing parties from the forest up north to destroy those siege engines or kill personel qualifed enough to use them. If they won't manage to achive it then... well, I guess walls and towers must be thick enough and moat deep and wide enough to withstand siege from there.

Still If we could manage to "borrow" those oversized crossbows from orcs I would surely put them on the east side of the castle.

Pallisades however offer little danger to the Kingdom and with the current threats to Arenfield even known to the King a Pallisade would still stand to reason.

What danger to the kingdom? Current danger to Eric's kingdom is Van, his allies and orcs. Not a village of which Baron would like to raise some fortifications, becasue of threat of outlaws and orcs.
Eric should issue an order to Giron to start fortifying road to Arenfield ASAP in case if Van manage to force him somehow to reateat. This way he would gain not only a place of which he could retreat, but also option to lick his wounds while also defending the only known road to his kingdom aside from sea.
But if he's paranoid about Giron joining Van's side, he could issue an order to fortify only road to Arenfield.

Arenfields strongest defence are the natural blockades as it's positioned at the border to the mountains.
The south entrances holds the higher ground the Bandit outpost is right next to the only southern road leading to the frontlines apparently.
The entire western side is framed by the same mountains travelling those is hard and the only known path leads into the deeper woods/hunting grounds.

So it looks like there is futher no reason to fortify moutain pass from Arenfield to hunting grounds. But it would be nice to convince Kath and Tia to move to Arenfield for safety reasons.

With everything said it seems to be a better idea to build some fortification at the ruined house in the eastern parts (Fort) and use the Mercanery basecamp to reinforce that location.
Use the bandit hideout after repairing and reinforceing the defence as another Mercanery Camp and in the north use Rumah+Orc Outpost to counter the Orcs... with time take over both the main Orc settlement while giving up that outpost and from there take posession of Callan's Rest again moveing the Orcs into their main settlement.
Than we can use both Rumah and Madra Ghaz to support and reinforce Callan's rest to secure the entire deep forest area from sentinent beings (Swamp fiends don't seem sentinent)...sure we'd likely still have to deal with some stragglers and Brigands but those can be used to increase our numbers or atleast help to maintain them as there will certainly be losses.
Stone fortifications are likely something in the far future when Arenfield has more than 100 citizens/families living in it's premises

Historically stone fortifications, larger than stone fences, have happened only on cities with population in over thousands. Building stone fortifications is expensive and time consuming work. Also i think Arenfield is actually bigger/more populated than we see, it's most likely the case as is often with games, that you can't really give accurate representation of the size of settlement due to limitations of engine etc... If anything i'd guess Arenfield's population would be well over 100, since outer farms like what Coldstone family runs would be counted into it.

It all comes to money. Transporting resources over medieval roads cost more money than resources themself, so building anything out of stone in plain areas of countries was expensive and only the most rich people like Lords and Kings or the most rich cities could allow themself to build out of stone. Yet some of castles and knight's towers in Poland, Italy, France and in England were build out of the bat using stone. Why? Because there was no need to transport it if stone was already at the bulding site, because of moutain, rocky terrain.

The thing is... Arenfield has almost all in arms length. River provides water, clay and fish, moutains provide iron and stone, and darkwood forest provide wood, fur and meat. You don't really need to transport those resource anywhere. So anyone trying to build something in Arenfield can save huge amout of money. Money which can be used to pay for labor, because that's the only thing Arenfield lacks.

Indicate to me which ones.

To not make two posts:

Spoiler: List

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[lol is funny]

When we can see 0.5.5.5b in f95zone ?

 

[Evangelion-01]

Historically stone fortifications, larger than stone fences, have happened only on cities with population in over thousands. Building stone fortifications is expensive and time consuming work. Also i think Arenfield is actually bigger/more populated than we see, it's most likely the case as is often with games, that you can't really give accurate representation of the size of settlement due to limitations of engine etc... If anything i'd guess Arenfield's population would be well over 100, since outer farms like what Coldstone family runs would be counted into it.

Yeah unless those workers are hired hands/seasonal workers from Kirlic.
Liike I said they also have to rely on those for the mine afterall.
Most RPGM games atleast show indications about houses spreading into unaccessable areas aswell these days.

Also, if needed, Arenfield could be expanded either east into fields or north into Darkwood, by cutting down trees and building outer bailey with palisade.

which would render the walls meaningless as the expansure would be unprotected, I agree that the village/settlement called Arenfield needs to grow in the future if only to acommodate all of MC children.
Stone Walls could be build along the rivers in the east and the west towards the north we could block the path to Ishas hut and than draw a wall line through the forest.... but that needs time, man power and money... and atleast the 2nd one is lacking in Arenfield.
Building Pallissades is better than nothing but still a temporal solution as it can be easily removed to offer new space for accomodations or industry.

I'm going to agree and disagree with you on this at the same time.
Agree on having serveral outposts. Having multiple in the area would greatly improve control and security and surely would improve respond to any potential threat if needed.

Yet I have to disagree at the same time, because having multiple outposts scattered around the area without strong center from which those outposts can be supplied and to which troops can retreat if needed to is rather pointless.

Also I have to say Arenfield is in great strategic position of both, economic and military. Too good to not use it. Fotifying it with stone should be priority, as to having strong center in the area will allow to have multiple cards.
After all you can't travel from Varron to Kirlic, Parakis or Monastery without crossing through Arenfield unless you use a ship. Eventually you can try to create a new route south of Arenfield by traveling by coast line.
Also, it is impossible to encircle Arenfield fully without either ally or dividing your troops. Someone has to block the moutain path from the south in order to cut off any reinforcements, supplies or counter-attacking units. And someone has to the same from the north to east through Darkwood.

Yeah we share that sentiment.
I agree that Arenfield needs actual fortifications aside of the 2 watchtowers we currently have... atleast another one at Kath house would be a good idea.
But stone walls are still not feesable... maybe a stone fence/foundation for a Pallisade so it can't be unrooted easily.

Well yes, wall alone is just a... wall. But it offers security to those inside. Even without people defending it someone trying to get inside still have to do something, like at least building a latter.
But I disagree on the siege engines. You don't need them in order to defend Arenfield. As you said yourself, and I'll allow myself to quote:

in regards to ladders the same accounts for a pallisade and in regards to defences... the only way to tear down a stone fortification would be explosives (which I don't think were invented in the game world) or siege engines... mounting the walls with your own will atleast allow the defenders to take small ranged ones out from relative safety.

Road to Arenfield through the southern slopes is not only twisted but also narrow. Same at the entrace to it. You don't need huge force to defend that part of Arenfield. Unless, somehow, enemy forces can deploy there siege equipment and climb 20 or mroe meter high slopes and walls while under arrow and bolt fire.

Walls always have a mortal angle... you can't shoot down right below... soldiers with climbing hooks could still manage... or ladders. the defenders would have to leave their cover to shoot down right below, and the enemy would likely have archers to cover their infantry.

What danger to the kingdom? Current danger to Eric's kingdom is Van, his allies and orcs. Not a village of which Baron would like to raise some fortifications, becasue of threat of outlaws and orcs.
Eric should issue an order to Giron to start fortifying road to Arenfield ASAP in case if Van manage to force him somehow to reateat. This way he would gain not only a place of which he could retreat, but also option to lick his wounds while also defending the only known road to his kingdom aside from sea.
But if he's paranoid about Giron joining Van's side, he could issue an order to fortify only road to Arenfield.

But that's the point... giron doesn't want to invest into a strong defence, the only Option to make this available to all players would be a rebellion by MC... even if he manages to keep news about this in Arenfield the moment he does something like building heavy fortifications every Peasant will be aware of something going on.
Arenfields defences and number of defenders is known to be low... Giron only hosted a garison of 7 men (includeing Lyvia) he couldn't expect such a feet from the Baron and MC would charge Giron his live to make something like this possible.

So it looks like there is futher no reason to fortify moutain pass from Arenfield to hunting grounds. But it would be nice to convince Kath and Tia to move to Arenfield for safety reasons.

The mountain path is high grounds... it's actually a good idea to install a small gate or blockade at the way down and build some watchtower.

It all comes to money. Transporting resources over medieval roads cost more money than resources themself, so building anything out of stone in plain areas of countries was expensive and only the most rich people like Lords and Kings or the most rich cities could allow themself to build out of stone. Yet some of castles and knight's towers in Poland, Italy, France and in England were build out of the bat using stone. Why? Because there was no need to transport it if stone was already at the bulding site, because of moutain, rocky terrain.

Actually most strongholds in the middle ages were earth hills surrounded by pallisades and a wooden tower in the middle... later upgraded to stone buildings to also include barracks at the botton Level.

The thing is... Arenfield has almost all in arms length. River provides water, clay and fish, moutains provide iron and stone, and darkwood forest provide wood, fur and meat. You don't really need to transport those resource anywhere. So anyone trying to build something in Arenfield can save huge amout of money. Money which can be used to pay for labor, because that's the only thing Arenfield lacks.

You'd still need the man power to gather these resources, guard the workers and bring them in.
Tia is barely able to bring enough wood for the villages needs herself (if she sn't adventureing with the MC or is waiting in Rumah)

 

[zARRR]

Historically stone fortifications, larger than stone fences, have happened only on cities with population in over thousands. Building stone fortifications is expensive and time consuming work. Also i think Arenfield is actually bigger/more populated than we see, it's most likely the case as is often with games, that you can't really give accurate representation of the size of settlement due to limitations of engine etc... If anything i'd guess Arenfield's population would be well over 100, since outer farms like what Coldstone family runs would be counted into it.

Historically there were also reused stone fortifications which were ex Roman castra, that got abandoned or ruined during the aftermath of the fall of the empire

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Spoiler: Merci

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When we can see 0.5.5.5b in f95zone ?

Like always; in two updates becomes when it becomes public or when someone brings it here.

Yeah unless those workers are hired hands/seasonal workers from Kirlic.
Liike I said they also have to rely on those for the mine afterall.
Most RPGM games atleast show indications about houses spreading into unaccessable areas aswell these days.

which would render the walls meaningless as the expansure would be unprotected, I agree that the village/settlement called Arenfield needs to grow in the future if only to acommodate all of MC children.
Stone Walls could be build along the rivers in the east and the west towards the north we could block the path to Ishas hut and than draw a wall line through the forest.... but that needs time, man power and money... and atleast the 2nd one is lacking in Arenfield.
Building Pallissades is better than nothing but still a temporal solution as it can be easily removed to offer new space for accomodations or industry.

Yeah we share that sentiment.
I agree that Arenfield needs actual fortifications aside of the 2 watchtowers we currently have... atleast another one at Kath house would be a good idea.
But stone walls are still not feesable... maybe a stone fence/foundation for a Pallisade so it can't be unrooted easily.

in regards to ladders the same accounts for a pallisade and in regards to defences... the only way to tear down a stone fortification would be explosives (which I don't think were invented in the game world) or siege engines... mounting the walls with your own will atleast allow the defenders to take small ranged ones out from relative safety.

Walls always have a mortal angle... you can't shoot down right below... soldiers with climbing hooks could still manage... or ladders. the defenders would have to leave their cover to shoot down right below, and the enemy would likely have archers to cover their infantry.

But that's the point... giron doesn't want to invest into a strong defence, the only Option to make this available to all players would be a rebellion by MC... even if he manages to keep news about this in Arenfield the moment he does something like building heavy fortifications every Peasant will be aware of something going on.
Arenfields defences and number of defenders is known to be low... Giron only hosted a garison of 7 men (includeing Lyvia) he couldn't expect such a feet from the Baron and MC would charge Giron his live to make something like this possible.

The mountain path is high grounds... it's actually a good idea to install a small gate or blockade at the way down and build some watchtower.

Actually most strongholds in the middle ages were earth hills surrounded by pallisades and a wooden tower in the middle... later upgraded to stone buildings to also include barracks at the botton Level.

You'd still need the man power to gather these resources, guard the workers and bring them in.
Tia is barely able to bring enough wood for the villages needs herself (if she sn't adventureing with the MC or is waiting in Rumah)

There is more neuronal activity here than in ASWS discord… just saying

 

[HentaiKami]

Historically there were also reused stone fortifications which were ex Roman castra, that got abandoned or ruined during the aftermath of the fall of the empire

Oh sure, but in this case the only reusable stone fortifications for Arenfield are pretty much in the Callan's Rest. Otherwise there's no real stone fortifications around. You could potentially use some of the ruins as part and have palisades in the gaps to strengthen the defence, but those ruins are not that useful.

 

[HentaiKami]

Yeah unless those workers are hired hands/seasonal workers from Kirlic.
Liike I said they also have to rely on those for the mine afterall.
Most RPGM games atleast show indications about houses spreading into unaccessable areas aswell these days.

While some of the workers might be hired hands/seasonal workers from Kirlic, it's more likely that they live somewhere close by. Farm work has never been really high income work in history, unless you own the farm and have ownership of all the produce. Historically many of the farm workers might have had smaller farms/homesteads they rented from the larger estate owner and paid the rent for their plot with work on the larger farm, usually in form of field work. Now mining is actually such a job that it has historically been economically beneficial to bring workers from other settlements if local settlement doesn't have enough workers.

 

[zARRR]

Oh sure, but in this case the only reusable stone fortifications for Arenfield are pretty much in the Callan's Rest. Otherwise there's no real stone fortifications around. You could potentially use some of the ruins as part and have palisades in the gaps to strengthen the defence, but those ruins are not that useful.

Ehy wait, wasn’t Arenfield’s church based on Gromthul’s church? So I guess that was reused but ain’t a fortification.

 

[HentaiKami]

Ehy wait, wasn’t Arenfield’s church based on Gromthul’s church? So I guess that was reused but ain’t a fortification.

Yes, it was ritual place for Gromthul, not really a church. Iirc the catacombs under the church specifically were where the ritual place is and church was built on top of it, to prevent access for it and reduce the influence of Gromthul. Similarly as in real world, churches, mosques etc... have been in many situations built on top of other religions places of worship.

 

[52000758]

I went imprisoning Syfa route at the church but couldn't find her back in the church cellar in Arenfield, is it a bug?

 

[HentaiKami]

It all comes to money. Transporting resources over medieval roads cost more money than resources themself, so building anything out of stone in plain areas of countries was expensive and only the most rich people like Lords and Kings or the most rich cities could allow themself to build out of stone. Yet some of castles and knight's towers in Poland, Italy, France and in England were build out of the bat using stone. Why? Because there was no need to transport it if stone was already at the bulding site, because of moutain, rocky terrain.

The thing is... Arenfield has almost all in arms length. River provides water, clay and fish, moutains provide iron and stone, and darkwood forest provide wood, fur and meat. You don't really need to transport those resource anywhere. So anyone trying to build something in Arenfield can save huge amout of money. Money which can be used to pay for labor, because that's the only thing Arenfield lacks.

You are still forgetting that constructing stone fortifications is huge effort, it would take well over a year, if not multiple years, to construct even with good number of workers that could just work on it, even if you didn't have to transport material from other places. Not to mention that any construction project like that would require finding and hiring suitable engineer to design the fortifications and manage the construction project, which i would think would be difficult with the ongoing war, since most likely all of such engineers are currently pretty much conscripted for the war effort, to design and maintain necessary war machines and fortifications for the ruler.

 

[zARRR]

Yes, it was ritual place for Gromthul, not really a church. Iirc the catacombs under the church specifically were where the ritual place is and church was built on top of it, to prevent access for it and reduce the influence of Gromthul. Similarly as in real world, churches, mosques etc... have been in many situations built on top of other religions places of worship.

Indeed, many pagan temples were turned into churches and many churches were turned into mosques.
Even the monastery was supposed to have a set of dungeons similar to Arenfield’s church.
But it didn’t happened, behind the scene many things were rearranged (and fucked up)

 

[acowasto]

Yeah unless those workers are hired hands/seasonal workers from Kirlic.
Liike I said they also have to rely on those for the mine afterall.
Most RPGM games atleast show indications about houses spreading into unaccessable areas aswell these days.

Well, doesn't really matter in the long run. Give them work, good pay, food and shelter and they'll move to Arenfield, at least for work time. Allow them to build thier houses, give them more work and pay, like place in your mercenary company, and they might stay for longer.

which would render the walls meaningless as the expansure would be unprotected, I agree that the village/settlement called Arenfield needs to grow in the future if only to acommodate all of MC children.

I don't think at the point of time where we have Arenfield fully enclosed with stone walls we would still rely only on Frank and 19 mercs of which 5 are sitting in the camp doing nothing to secure local area with Arenfield included. I think we would have at least a a company 100 man strong or maybe two companies to do so with small outpost around there area and patrols between them.

Stone Walls could be build along the rivers in the east and the west towards the north we could block the path to Ishas hut and than draw a wall line through the forest.... but that needs time, man power and money... and atleast the 2nd one is lacking in Arenfield.
Building Pallissades is better than nothing but still a temporal solution as it can be easily removed to offer new space for accomodations or industry.

Yes, sadly that task would prove both expensive and time consuming, becuase we would have to transport resources where they are needed. Not to mention supplies for workes and guards protecting workers. That could only be done if we secure Arenfield and local area with outposts.
And I agree building palisade is the temporary solution.

Yeah we share that sentiment.
I agree that Arenfield needs actual fortifications aside of the 2 watchtowers we currently have... atleast another one at Kath house would be a good idea.

Well, Kath house is on the high ground, which is good place to have an observation post over the land. But I don't think Kath would easily agree to turn her house into one. Also I would rather have her in the Arenfield, no matter how much people alienate her, because she's a healer.

But stone walls are still not feesable... maybe a stone fence/foundation for a Pallisade so it can't be unrooted easily.

Well, it could be done with leftovers and rocks not fitting for bulding from masons work. It's not like we need to build stone fortifications on every side at the same time. It would surely cut the need for labor, but increase the project and costs in time.

in regards to ladders the same accounts for a pallisade and in regards to defences... the only way to tear down a stone fortification would be explosives (which I don't think were invented in the game world) or siege engines... mounting the walls with your own will atleast allow the defenders to take small ranged ones out from relative safety.

Well... I think you just forgot about that big bada bum explosion in Eric's camp you wrote few post eariler. So we probably have some kind of explosives. Also, let's not forget we have magic. While mages seems to be not so common, I think a skilled enough mage would be just as destructive to the walls as siege engine.

Walls always have a mortal angle... you can't shoot down right below... soldiers with climbing hooks could still manage... or ladders. the defenders would have to leave their cover to shoot down right below, and the enemy would likely have archers to cover their infantry.

That's why we have developed 3469+ ways for the defends to do it safely. Towers being outward the walls allowing for overlaping angles o fire, loopholes, shooting slits, hoardings, MACHIOLATIONS!!!!, murder holes, etc.

But that's the point... giron doesn't want to invest into a strong defence, the only Option to make this available to all players would be a rebellion by MC... even if he manages to keep news about this in Arenfield the moment he does something like building heavy fortifications every Peasant will be aware of something going on.
Arenfields defences and number of defenders is known to be low... Giron only hosted a garison of 7 men (includeing Lyvia) he couldn't expect such a feet from the Baron and MC would charge Giron his live to make something like this possible.

Giron cares only about his own power and money. If you present him with an opportunity to gain those he might agree. Especially if he's the one to gain those and you the one to pay for it.

The mountain path is high grounds... it's actually a good idea to install a small gate or blockade at the way down and build some watchtower.

Yes, agree. Wrote smillar thing few paragraphs higher.

Actually most strongholds in the middle ages were earth hills surrounded by pallisades and a wooden tower in the middle... later upgraded to stone buildings to also include barracks at the botton Level.

Well, most of them. Especially those in the plain areas where stone, lime and clay weren't that easy to come by. That's why, as I wrote, only those rich enough could afford it.
Yet, again, Arenfield can aquire those materials easily with little effort, all needed is labor.
[/QUOTE]

You'd still need the man power to gather these resources, guard the workers and bring them in.
Tia is barely able to bring enough wood for the villages needs herself (if she sn't adventureing with the MC or is waiting in Rumah)

Hard to not agree. Labor is the only thing we know Arenfield lacks. That's why I would offer people pay, food and shelter for thier labor, which would be gathering resources, processing them and using them to build. In those hard times many would agree just for the food and shelter.
Of course mercenaries would be protecting them from harm during thier stay.

As for Tia, I would't say she has a problem. I would say she's doing great if it is possible for her to put some wood aside for Kath and MC.

And there's also Rumah. While they don't like humans that much MC is thier chieftain and is doing all the trading. All he would have to to is to convince Rumah to increase thier hunting efforts so he can sell more furs and meat for gold in order to aquire weapons and armos for them. John doing weapons and Frisha doing leather armors. I see this as a win-win situation.

You are still forgetting that constructing stone fortifications is huge effort, it would take well over a year, if not multiple years, to construct even with good number of workers that could just work on it, even if you didn't have to transport material from other places.

As I wrote. We don't have to build everything at once. Especially out of stone. First palisade, then walls out of stone. Sure it will take time, but... everything takes time. And because transport is not a problem, the huge amount of gold saved from this can be used to hire more people which would decrease time of gathering and building fortifications.

Not to mention that any construction project like that would require finding and hiring suitable engineer to design the fortifications and manage the construction project, which i would think would be difficult with the ongoing war, since most likely all of such engineers are currently pretty much conscripted for the war effort, to design and maintain necessary war machines and fortifications for the ruler.

Well, luckly we don't need skilled engineers to mantain our siege equipment, but only an architect, at least for now. And it isn't so uncommon for an architect to do multiple projects at once. And if there is one architect overlooking Kirlic then it would be quite easy and nice to hire him. Just throw chest of gold at him. If not, we can always check the university for a freshly baked one. While his skill would be rather lacking... he would have the necessary knowledge everyone at Arenfield lacks. But making sure he won't fuck up would be rather the priority.

Otherwise we will have to use MC's powerful strength of love friendship and plot armor to design it.