RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.6.1.1b] [Chyos]

[Kulman]

...I mean this IS like any other resource in the game.
Iron, copper, elder wood, stone, clay are all reasources that can only be farmed.
If you spend your time on other Quests while gathering resources in the process you won't have to worry for a shortage of resources.
Some resources are much rarer, like fog fiend drops for the Potions and carrots, cabbage and grain aren't easy to get either.
Wood is pretty much the only resource you get easily early on

No its not the same. Stone you can just stand in place and farm as much as you want with a few clicks. Wood can be bought, farmed by villagers and is overall pretty easy to get.

Copper might be worse, but you gather it passively just by playing the game, even if you did not want to.

Elder wood is only one slightly longer, but it is still only pretty much once you need more and its a very valuable resource, so it makes sense.

Clay is just clay. There should be a way to get it faster. I am not a mind reader to know I have to meticulously gather every single piece I see long before I need it. You still need like a hundred, which is a lot, gathering it by ones and twos.

 

[Evangelion-01]

No its not the same. Stone you can just stand in place and farm as much as you want with a few clicks. Wood can be bought, farmed by villagers and is overall pretty easy to get.

Copper might be worse, but you gather it passively just by playing the game, even if you did not want to.

Elder wood is only one slightly longer, but it is still only pretty much once you need more and its a very valuable resource, so it makes sense.

Clay is just clay. There should be a way to get it faster. I am not a mind reader to know I have to meticulously gather every single piece I see long before I need it. You still need like a hundred, which is a lot, gathering it by ones and twos.

to gather stone you need to pass a strength test, to gather clay you only need to find it.
I agree on the normal wood part... as I had said in my own post.
Elder wood is required in several places, and you can only gather 5 per tree (if you pass the strength test, it's still easier to aquire as Tia can do the harvesting for you)
Other resources often required are rabbit and deer hides, less often Wolf hides (while it is possible to buy them you'll have to spend a fortune on them).
The game is setup so that you collect anything you find in order to build stuff or be prepared to do so.
Sorry but I maxed out my clay reserve along the time I started to visit Rumah, this just sounds like you skipped the resource gathering as much as possible and now find yourself in a pickle

 

[Kulman]

to gather stone you need to pass a strength test, to gather clay you only need to find it.
I agree on the normal wood part... as I had said in my own post.
Elder wood is required in several places, and you can only gather 5 per tree (if you pass the strength test, it's still easier to aquire as Tia can do the harvesting for you)
Other resources often required are rabbit and deer hides, less often Wolf hides (while it is possible to buy them you'll have to spend a fortune on them).
The game is setup so that you collect anything you find in order to build stuff or be prepared to do so.
Sorry but I maxed out my clay reserve along the time I started to visit Rumah, this just sounds like you skipped the resource gathering as much as possible and now find yourself in a pickle

No I gathered it like 50% of the time I saw it. I gathered like 30 till I stopped bothering, since I thought the game would require just a few from me.
Again, there is no reason for me to assume I will need so many or that the game will not provide an easier solution, as it always has.

I am sorry, but it is badly designed. It is the only resource that stands out. Without any reason because it is such a common thing.

Elderwood you need 20 for the ritual and 5 for the bow. So yeah, no problem.

Just let me cheat it out at worst.

 

[valley57]

hello everyone , i hope all have nice weekend ....... i want to ask if that bug or something else in main quest still need revenge i was stalled his soul , how to kill him , and there is about the home i did all and i went to the Roderic to do furniture he did the bath and the bed but up the second floor he did one room for athia only others empty in the request still said go to the Roderic and also the Celler how to work ? thank you for the answer ...

 

[Evangelion-01]

No I gathered it like 50% of the time I saw it. I gathered like 30 till I stopped bothering, since I thought the game would require just a few from me.
Again, there is no reason for me to assume I will need so many or that the game will not provide an easier solution, as it always has.

I am sorry, but it is badly designed. It is the only resource that stands out. Without any reason because it is such a common thing.

Elderwood you need 20 for the ritual and 5 for the bow. So yeah, no problem.

Just let me cheat it out at worst.

Why would you stop gathering common resources that don't cost you much takeing along?
It was only reasonable to set my mark on 99 for any resource you can get personally.
How would you get Clay easier than gathering it each time you find it... and that's alot.
the first time clay came along was for the orphanage and even than you needed quiet alot.
Also if you already have 30 Clay getting the required 60 shouldn't even bother you much at this point.

hello everyone , i hope all have nice weekend ....... i want to ask if that bug or something else in main quest still need revenge i was stalled his soul , how to kill him , and there is about the home i did all and i went to the Roderic to do furniture he did the bath and the bed but up the second floor he did one room for athia only others empty in the request still said go to the Roderic and also the Celler how to work ? thank you for the answer ...

If you enslaved him you can't kill him.. he is still a valuable tool to keep watch on the Orcs... likely once you dealt with the entire Orc problem you'll get your chance

 

[Kulman]

Why would you stop gathering common resources that don't cost you much takeing along?
It was only reasonable to set my mark on 99 for any resource you can get personally.
How would you get Clay easier than gathering it each time you find it... and that's alot.
the first time clay came along was for the orphanage and even than you needed quiet alot.
Also if you already have 30 Clay getting the required 60 shouldn't even bother you much at this point.

You need 80 if you count emily house.

That is like 20 nodes at minimum, when 1 appears per map if I am lucky.

I am sorry, but it is a bother for a very boring gameplay.

And yeah, I do not collect every single thing I see, that would extend my gameplay by a lot for something I do not think I need. Picking it here and there should suffice.

It is just not balanced for people starting out a new playthrough.

 

[Evangelion-01]

You need 80 if you count emily house.

That is like 20 nodes at minimum, when 1 appears per map if I am lucky.

I am sorry, but it is a bother for a very boring gameplay.

And yeah, I do not collect every single thing I see, that would extend my gameplay by a lot for something I do not think I need. Picking it here and there should suffice.

It is just not balanced for people starting out a new playthrough.

Really? in my opinion Players that start fresh will have a much easier time, as they are aware what is required of them in the long run, I haven't heard anyone complaining about resources being sparce... I mean John's Quest for forging 20 Swords requires you to gather iron for atleast 1 ingame month.
Like I said I don't think there are many people that just skip resource gathering in a game that has an extended crafting system

 

[Kulman]

Really? in my opinion Players that start fresh will have a much easier time, as they are aware what is required of them in the long run, I haven't heard anyone complaining about resources being sparce... I mean John's Quest for forging 20 Swords requires you to gather iron for atleast 1 ingame month.
Like I said I don't think there are many people that just skip resource gathering in a game that has an extended crafting system

I mean new players. Last time I played I did not get to the point where I needed clay at all. And as I mentioned 20 times, I did not skip it. I gathered 30 in a game where 99 is the limit. Gathering it by 1 and 2 mostly. So that is like 20 gathers. That in my opinion is more than enough.

You are advocating dumb scarcity that has no reason to exist. I have 200g in my pocket, 15 people at my beck and call but I will spend hours finding stupid clay. Yeah no thanks.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I mean new players. Last time I played I did not get to the point where I needed clay at all. And as I mentioned 20 times, I did not skip it. I gathered 30 in a game where 99 is the limit. Gathering it by 1 and 2 mostly. So that is like 20 gathers. That in my opinion is more than enough.

You are advocating dumb scarcity that has no reason to exist. I have 200g in my pocket, 15 people at my beck and call but I will spend hours finding stupid clay. Yeah no thanks.

let's just agree that we disagree.

I have no problem running through the wild in order to defeat my enemies and gathering any piece of junk I come across until I can't carry anymore, I kept playing this way from the beginning and will do so till the end.
To me the game would loose it's unique charakter by simply offering any material you'll need at a given point in time.
Gathering the stuff, than process it and finally craft something magnificant... that's the joy of this game to me

 

[Kulman]

let's just agree that we disagree.

I have no problem running through the wild in order to defeat my enemies and gathering any piece of junk I come across until I can't carry anymore, I kept playing this way from the beginning and will do so till the end.
To me the game would loose it's unique charakter by simply offering any material you'll need at a given point in time.
Gathering the stuff, than process it and finally craft something magnificant... that's the joy of this game to me

I like it as it seems like a living world. In such a world, I would be able to just go ahead and buy that stuff or have people gather it for me, as you can do with pretty much any other resource (elderwood not included).

There is a point where gathering your own stuff moves from being engaging to tedious. This has overcome that limit for me by like 5 times. You are collecting... dirt, how engaging. Bet noone else could pull that off.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I like it as it seems like a living world. In such a world, I would be able to just go ahead and buy that stuff or have people gather it for me, as you can do with pretty much any other resource (elderwood not included).

There is a point where gathering your own stuff moves from being engaging to tedious. This has overcome that limit for me by like 5 times. You are collecting... dirt, how engaging. Bet noone else could pull that off.

As a matter of fact that is true by your own admittance, as you can't buy it anywhere
... Honestly you are describing modern livestyle in a city where everything is on sale, while the game plays in a medivel village where every person has a job to do in order to make ends meet and keep the village alive... there just isn't anyone gathering clay or stone... if you need something that isn't available you'll either have to travel the world to find someone that provides that service or do it yourself... well there is noone around to do these tasks and your brigands are former bandits that haven't done anything than mug people with metal sticks... figure how useful those guys are at finding clay pits and emptying them

 

[IllusiveVagabond]

As a matter of fact that is true by your own admittance, as you can't buy it anywhere
... Honestly you are describing modern livestyle in a city where everything is on sale, while the game plays in a medivel village where every person has a job to do in order to make ends meet and keep the village alive... there just isn't anyone gathering clay or stone... if you need something that isn't available you'll either have to travel the world to find someone that provides that service or do it yourself... well there is noone around to do these tasks and your brigands are former bandits that haven't done anything than mug people with metal sticks... figure how useful those guys are at finding clay pits and emptying them

That's assuming the bandits developed no life skills prior to banditry. People don't develop in isolation we pick up skills from those around us, and people generally didn't resort to banditry because they had a choice but more a lack of options to survive. Some will be ex-soldiers, some will be ex-villagers cast out due to not paying taxes (such as the MC almost was) and others are social pariahs for various other reasons (such as infidelity, murder etc).

It's also making the assumption that no-one is going to teach them how to hunt, bake, forage and so on. They're living in the woods so all those will become second nature fast or they'd die. Living in the woods requires a certain level of self-sufficiency to survive, and I'm talking from experience as I've lived in deep forests for over a week with the clothes I was wearing, a knife/axe and basic cooking utensils. I even made my own clay pots and dishes (not very good but hey needs must). It's not that hard to learn the skills, what's harder is learning when to apply the skills and how. For people living in this period it'd likely be second nature as these are skills that'd be taught as soon as they'd be able to walk. If you wanted to learn these skills plenty of bushcraft videos on YouTube showing how it's done.

 

[Kulman]

As a matter of fact that is true by your own admittance, as you can't buy it anywhere
... Honestly you are describing modern livestyle in a city where everything is on sale, while the game plays in a medivel village where every person has a job to do in order to make ends meet and keep the village alive... there just isn't anyone gathering clay or stone... if you need something that isn't available you'll either have to travel the world to find someone that provides that service or do it yourself... well there is noone around to do these tasks and your brigands are former bandits that haven't done anything than mug people with metal sticks... figure how useful those guys are at finding clay pits and emptying them

I am sorry, but you expect me to believe the tribe living in the woods does not know how to gather clay and use it? I think that just by looking at their village you can see that that is just plain wrong.

And again, you can do it with pretty much every resource in the game, clay being the difference for no reason.

I have had similar conversation with diehard fans with multiple games. You go to such ridiculous lengths to justify design oversights... from a certain point it becomes just funny. Recently I had a dude tell me that the bad responsiveness of units in new total war warhammer 3 was definitely a design choice, because commanding troups should not be so easy.... lol.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I am sorry, but you expect me to believe the tribe living in the woods does not know how to gather clay and use it? I think that just by looking at their village you can see that that is just plain wrong.

...uhm yes I do believe so... there is no stone building and they don't use plastering on their building... it's just wood, ropes and hay

And again, you can do it with pretty much every resource in the game, clay being the difference for no reason.

...yeah except with the resources you can't... which is unsurprisngly among ther rarer ones.
Stone, Clay and Iron are the only farmable resources you can't just buy.
Fog fineds entrails and brains are the hardest as they are ONLY random drops from monster encounters

I have had similar conversation with diehard fans with multiple games. You go to such ridiculous lengths to justify design oversights... from a certain point it becomes just funny. Recently I had a dude tell me that the bad responsiveness of units in new total war warhammer 3 was definitely a design choice, because commanding troups should be not so easy.... lol.

Yeah I had several such discussions with people who find themself stumped because they have to put an effort in collecting materials in order to craft something significant, calling it an oversight or bad gameplay, when in reality it was just not THEIR gameplay.
You don't enjoy resource gathering I have understood that much, me on the other side I like it.
The game is encouraging resource gathering by offering frequent Quests that require large numbers of them and each time someone complains cause they didn't have the required resources on hand and had no intention to spend time on aquiring them.

 

[Kulman]

...uhm yes I do believe so... there is no stone building and they don't use plastering on their building... it's just wood, ropes and hay

...yeah except with the resources you can't... which is unsurprisngly among ther rarer ones.
Stone, Clay and Iron are the only farmable resources you can't just buy.
Fog fineds entrails and brains are the hardest as they are ONLY random drops from monster encounters

Yeah I had several such discussions with people who find themself stumped because they have to put an effort in collecting materials in order to craft something significant, calling it an oversight or bad gameplay, when in reality it was just not THEIR gameplay.
You don't enjoy resource gathering I have understood that much, me on the other side I like it.
The game is encouraging resource gathering by offering frequent Quests that require large numbers of them and each time someone complains cause they didn't have the required resources on hand and had no intention to spend time on aquiring them.

I am done with you dude. Sure if you needed 30 fiend entrails, it would be an issue. The natives are utilising copper, but clay is just too hard I guess? You also "gathered" squat, I like resource gathering. I dont like gathering resource that spawns randomly with very small increments.

Lets for a second say that they do not know how to gather clay. I am their chieftain, what I say goes, there is no reasonable explanation other than: dev just did not implement it. Yet you are here trying to justify it with twisted logic.

I have farmed my whole game, why do you think I have issue now? Clay just plain sucks.

Fanboys will be fanboys.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I am done with you dude. Sure if you needed 30 fiend entrails, it would be an issue. The natives are utilising copper, but clay is just too hard I guess? You also "gathered" squat, I like resource gathering. I dont like gathering resource that spawns randomly with very small increments.

Lets for a second say that they do not know how to gather clay. I am their chieftain, what I say goes, there is no reasonable explanation other than: dev just did not implement it. Yet you are here trying to justify it with twisted logic.

I have farmed my whole game, why do you think I have issue now? Clay just plain sucks.

Fanboys will be fanboys.

...you DO realise that everything you say is a personal opinion (same as me btw)...right?
You say the Dev should just do this or that to reduce your grind.
The Dev didn't include these mechanics though.. why is that? Maybe because he WANTS the Players to grind abit to achieve things?
The game keeps sending you all over the places to do stuff, it's extremly easy to just pick up stuff on the way and hoard them until you need them.
In games with extensive crafting systems it is guaranteed that you'll need them sooner or later.
If you think it's easy to implement there is always the Option to create a mod for yourself that includes such an Option.

 

[Nellyg]

Did I miss something or is clay such a bother to collect? You have to search for days and find 1-3 from time to time. I need 60 to renovate the house.
Is there some faster way? The cheatbook does not offer clay to get and my rpgmaker saveeditor does not work on the game.

This is just needlessly tedious.

Every time I went near water the game was giving me clay...that I didn't need so I ignored it. Then suddenly I needed it and would the damn stuff spawn.. rarely.
Saveeditonline works, that's how I got it

 

[Kulman]

...you DO realise that everything you say is a personal opinion (same as me btw)...right?
You say the Dev should just do this or that to reduce your grind.
The Dev didn't include these mechanics though.. why is that? Maybe because he WANTS the Players to grind abit to achieve things?
The game keeps sending you all over the places to do stuff, it's extremly easy to just pick up stuff on the way and hoard them until you need them.
In games with extensive crafting systems it is guaranteed that you'll need them sooner or later.
If you think it's easy to implement there is always the Option to create a mod for yourself that includes such an Option.

The fact that villagers are able to gather clay if you told them to is not personal opinion. Its a fact based on simple logic. You arguing otherwise does not make any sense.

And yeah, it is not in the game, maybe the dev wants it that way, who knows? Or maybe dev knows that this is a hassle, so he implemented more and more ways to get stuff, which makes sense. Like villagers gathering, miners mercenaries etc. Overall the trend of the game is for you to be above your henchmen that do the menial tasks you did at the beginning for you.

As you can see from the comments, I am not the only one. Yet I still have to see someone jumping out to say how much they love their clay gathering. I would not be surprised if dev adds more ways to procure it in the following patches, as it stands it just sucks.

And as for personal opinions... I hate it, other people hate it. Sometimes personal opinion is all you need to know a feature is bad. You are supposed to enjoy games. If you have a feature people are grinding their teeth over, maybe that feature sucks.

 

[Kulman]

Every time I went near water the game was giving me clay...that I didn't need so I ignored it. Then suddenly I needed it and would the damn stuff spawn.. rarely.
Saveeditonline works, that's how I got it

Thanks for the tip. Yeah I think it has a respawn timer. That is why if you look for it, the spots get cleaned out very swiftly.

 

[Evangelion-01]

And as for personal opinions... I hate it, other people hate it. Sometimes personal opinion is all you need to know a feature is bad. You are supposed to enjoy games. If you have a feature people are grinding their teeth over, maybe that feature sucks.

I must have missed any of those comments than, because so far you are the only one I see complaining.
On the other hand I have seen many people enjoying the game the way it is, including the sometimes tedious tasks of gathering a large ammount of resources for a certain Quest or crafting.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah I think it has a respawn timer. That is why if you look for it, the spots get cleaned out very swiftly.

Same as any resource spot you can find new ones every 5 ingame days