VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.215f] [Lust & Passion]

[xxxorro]

I'd like to ask to the talented artists that are following this forum what is their rough estimate for rendering a scene like the 2nd teaser with the graphic card(s) that L&P is using? If I understand well, the higher the number of characters the longer it takes to render. What is the relation, polynomial, exponential?

I think it has been discussed before and if I remember well some general consensus was that the concert itself would not take a major role in the event **even because of** the technical limitations of rendering a "crowd" of people and complex environment.
These 2 teasers obviously offer many possible scenarios for how the event will play out, with many different nuances and for all tastes. But I think the technical limitations above can prune some of them.
Bar fight? It could be one way to go, but is it really doable? (honest question) Manipulating so many characters plus rendering could be very time consuming in terms of development, even for L&P standards. I'm not ruling it out, I'm really asking if it is something that could be doable in a reasonable amount of time and just from a strictly technical point of view.

My personal feeling is still that nothing that rough will happen in the bar (i.e. bar fight, assaults etc) both because of the technical limitations and because I don't think it's the way L&P wants to go. For sure I'd expect some interactions with the people at the bar, some loud comments, eye glued to the two girls and so on. There can be a way of writing all this in a way that builds up some narrative tension and that, e.g., once again explore Sophia's pleasure in being "the center of attention".
And if anything, I won't be surprise if the location will be used later on for one of Aiden's tasks.

Finally, it has pointed out that no one from Sam's family is there. I'd also add that it's a bit strange that there are no friends of the band, being their first live performance normally close friends will be invited to come. Could be the two ladies arrived a bit too early (only the drums are on stage) and others will join soon (thus the dramatic entrance of the two in a such a bar could play a more dramatic effect)?
Or again have we reached some technical limits and there is no space for others? Will it be addressed in the dialogues, giving a reasonable motivation for the lack of support for the band even for the closest friends/relatives (e.g. it's school night)?

 

[ancienregimele]

As we're talking about bands, in the words of REM, "Consider this...". Sam's group are just the support band before the main act. That would keep the concert short, be 'in tune' with their relative inexperience & might even get through the evening without any undue unpleasantness. "Ladies & Gentlemen, you know we here at Bob's Country Bunker like to give a hand to upcoming local talent & tonight we have..... etc."

I still maintain that fleeing violence or anything related is not a good precursor to romance. Damn it all I don't "maintain," I know it's not. Although IMO I don't care if Sam is Romeo or Machiavelli, (I think he's somewhere in between...."All's fair & all that), I did & do think that there will be a significant development in the erotic aspect of his relations with Sophia. It's nicer to think that this could occur without any added nastiness.

Aiden & Bennett provide the nasty side of corruption/this VN & for me they're sufficient. (Apart from Bennett but let's not go there).

 

[Notretsam]

Andy and Katie stuff is most likely part of the swinger route that I believe is coming on the good wife route.

So that means Liam's boss and his wife, Friend and her boyfriend that Sophia went to Sauna with and now Andy and Katie for a swinger route.

As for the biker bar, I think the only thing that happens is that Sophia becomes more infatuated with Sam and Patricia notices. Patricia may or may not start looking at Sam differently as well.

I think alcohol will be involved like some stated and that leads to something afterwards but we choose where Sophia lets her guard down more. Either at home after visiting Andy and Katie or at Andy and Katie's home.

 

[Talcum Powder]

Why is everyone saying it's their first gig? Sam never said that, he said they are practicing for a gig and admits they are a long way off from selling out Shae Stadium, nothing about being their first show. Second, at first mention of it Sophia responds "Yes, your dad told us about your rock band." And so he did: on day one when explaining why Julia and Sam aren't home, Julia is at ballet and Neil says Sam is " ... practicing with their little wannabe rock band." So this isn't some clandestine activity that Sam's engaged in.

If it isn't their first show then there's probably no reason for his parents to attend.

Being at a bar it does make sense that their friends can't attend, they would be below drinking age. In certain U.S. cities/states there are so-called cabaret licenses where you are classified primarily as a dance/entertainment venue rather than a bar/drinking establishment, meaning they could serve alcohol and have so-called "all age shows". I doubt very seriously if L&P accounted for any of this and he's presenting a setting which would certainly have an age restriction and, given the clientele we see, we should probably take that at face value.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Why is everyone saying it's their first gig? Sam never said that, he said they are practicing for a gig and admits they are a long way off from selling out Shae Stadium, nothing about being their first show. Second, at first mention of it Sophia responds "Yes, your dad told us about your rock band." And so he did: on day one when explaining why Julia and Sam aren't home, Julia is at ballet and Neil says Sam is " ... practicing with their little wannabe rock band." So this isn't some clandestine activity that Sam's engaged in.

If it isn't their first show then there's probably no reason for his parents to attend.

Being at a bar it does make sense that their friends can't attend, they would be below drinking age. In certain U.S. cities/states there are so-called cabaret licenses where you are classified primarily as a dance/entertainment venue rather than a bar/drinking establishment, meaning they could serve alcohol and have so-called "all age shows". I doubt very seriously if L&P accounted for any of this and he's presenting a setting which would certainly have an age restriction and, given the clientele we see, we should probably take that at face value.

Sam says it's his "first real live performance" when he invites Sophia on day 18 in the backyard. That certainly sounds like his first gig to me.

 

[Talcum Powder]

Sam says it's his "first real live performance" when he invites Sophia on day 18 in the backyard. That certainly sounds like his first gig to me.

Fair enough, I guess I was focusing too much on the music lesson. Thank you as always for setting me straight!

 

[Topgun1_wrx]

can someone please tell me what the lastest versdion is and if its 0.130? I seem to be missing scenes you guys have seen, such as when Sophia try's on bikini's for dylan and sam, I haven't seen that yet but my version has ended? Plus you're talking about a sex scene with the neighbours? and pictures of Sam's band performance... what am I missing here or did I just do it wrong?

 

[Jack Adams]

I'd like to ask to the talented artists that are following this forum what is their rough estimate for rendering a scene like the 2nd teaser with the graphic card(s) that L&P is using? If I understand well, the higher the number of characters the longer it takes to render. What is the relation, polynomial, exponential?

I think it has been discussed before and if I remember well some general consensus was that the concert itself would not take a major role in the event **even because of** the technical limitations of rendering a "crowd" of people and complex environment.
These 2 teasers obviously offer many possible scenarios for how the event will play out, with many different nuances and for all tastes. But I think the technical limitations above can prune some of them.
Bar fight? It could be one way to go, but is it really doable? (honest question) Manipulating so many characters plus rendering could be very time consuming in terms of development, even for L&P standards. I'm not ruling it out, I'm really asking if it is something that could be doable in a reasonable amount of time and just from a strictly technical point of view.

My personal feeling is still that nothing that rough will happen in the bar (i.e. bar fight, assaults etc) both because of the technical limitations and because I don't think it's the way L&P wants to go. For sure I'd expect some interactions with the people at the bar, some loud comments, eye glued to the two girls and so on. There can be a way of writing all this in a way that builds up some narrative tension and that, e.g., once again explore Sophia's pleasure in being "the center of attention".
And if anything, I won't be surprise if the location will be used later on for one of Aiden's tasks.

Finally, it has pointed out that no one from Sam's family is there. I'd also add that it's a bit strange that there are no friends of the band, being their first live performance normally close friends will be invited to come. Could be the two ladies arrived a bit too early (only the drums are on stage) and others will join soon (thus the dramatic entrance of the two in a such a bar could play a more dramatic effect)?
Or again have we reached some technical limits and there is no space for others? Will it be addressed in the dialogues, giving a reasonable motivation for the lack of support for the band even for the closest friends/relatives (e.g. it's school night)?

You ask a very good question, and I will do my level best to answer what makes a render take as long as it does.
In the grossest of terms the time to render a scene is dependent upon the maps used in the scene. There are diffuse, specular, bump and normal maps. Normal maps are your best friend because they simulate textures that are not really there, and were not introduced until Gen 3. Each map is responsible for part of what you see (and don't see) on any surface on any object in the scene. Remaining in the realm of a simple explanation: The maps cover the polygons, and the more polygons covered by maps the longer the render time.
For example, I developed a Gen 1 scene on a beach with Gen 1 girls, then I put Gen 1 bikinis on them. The Gen 1 bikinis literally constituted 90% of the file size of the scene and rendering crashed every time after waiting hours. Removing the bikinis offered a scene I could render in less than 30 minutes. However, a nude beach scene was not my goal at the time.
As we progress in DAZ generations the tendency is to design with less polygons and use more maps that simulate a texture or effect (using more pixels). The kind of lighting also has an affect on render time. Low resource-heavy shaders can also mitigate some of the long render time.
Although the computer 'sees' the entire scene even if it is not in the view of the render and effects render time. However, I have rendered a multiple person scene in one angle in 17 minutes and the same scene from another angle took 1 hour and 45 minutes. There are other factors that also affect render time that others may add to this if they wish.
In short, a fast DAZ artist finds the resources that have less polygons and more normal (and bump) maps while homogenizing the lighting type to reduce conflict that increases render time. This is just a thumbnail sketch answer, and with L&P's rig using smart methods I would estimate between 30 and 45 minutes to render this scene.
I hope this helps, Jack.

 

[Alley_Cat]

can someone please tell me what the lastest versdion is and if its 0.130? I seem to be missing scenes you guys have seen, such as when Sophia try's on bikini's for dylan and sam, I haven't seen that yet but my version has ended? Plus you're talking about a sex scene with the neighbours? and pictures of Sam's band performance... what am I missing here or did I just do it wrong?

Yes, the latest version is .130. Sam's performance is the upcoming update, so the pictures we're discussing are recently released teasers not in the game yet.

As for missed scenes like the bikini fashion show and Sophia watching Neil and Amber, your best bet is Mamonetti's walkthrough.

 

[Talcum Powder]

You ask a very good question, and I will do my level best to answer what makes a render take as long as it does.
In the grossest of terms the time to render a scene is dependent upon the maps used in the scene. There are diffuse, specular, bump and normal maps. Normal maps are your best friend because they simulate textures that are not really there, and were not introduced until Gen 3. Each map is responsible for part of what you see (and don't see) on any surface on any object in the scene. Remaining in the realm of a simple explanation: The maps cover the polygons, and the more polygons covered by maps the longer the render time.
For example, I developed a Gen 1 scene on a beach with Gen 1 girls, then I put Gen 1 bikinis on them. The Gen 1 bikinis literally constituted 90% of the file size of the scene and rendering crashed every time after waiting hours. Removing the bikinis offered a scene I could render in less than 30 minutes. However, a nude beach scene was not my goal at the time.
As we progress in DAZ generations the tendency is to design with less polygons and use more maps that simulate a texture or effect (using more pixels). The kind of lighting also has an affect on render time. Low resource-heavy shaders can also mitigate some of the long render time.
Although the computer 'sees' the entire scene even if it is not in the view of the render and effects render time. However, I have rendered a multiple person scene in one angle in 17 minutes and the same scene from another angle took 1 hour and 45 minutes. There are other factors that also affect render time that others may add to this if they wish.
In short, a fast DAZ artist finds the resources that have less polygons and more normal (and bump) maps while homogenizing the lighting type to reduce conflict that increases render time. This is just a thumbnail sketch answer, and with L&P's rig using smart methods I would estimate between 30 and 45 minutes to render this scene.
I hope this helps, Jack.

Quick correction: normal maps and bump maps simulate geometry, not textures. Example, a flat plane can look like wood grain with ridges by applying a normal map. They provide “free” 3D-details in terms of resource consumption.
[end of correction]

think of the render engine (probably IRAY or Octane in this case) as calculating every light source in the scene hitting every single polygon in the scene, bouncing off every single polygon by angle of refraction and hitting another polygon, bouncing off that, and so on, all the while keeping track of how strong the light is after each bounce -a portion of the light is absorbed by every polygon hit.

having said all that, L&P has four top of the line graphic processor chips (or is it six?), NVIDIA RTX 3090. So he’s got no shortage of power and speed. Depending on settings he can generate the preview image we just saw (lots of light sources, 12 G3 characters) in maybe an hour or less. Set up and posing characters would take longer.

 

[Jack Adams]

Quick correction: normal maps and bump maps simulate geometry, not textures. Example, a flat plane can look like wood grain with ridges by applying a normal map. They provide “free” 3D-details in terms of resource consumption.

Your correction is semantically true in the DAZ world. I chose the word 'texture' for the uninitiated. Those unfamiliar with DAZ would call a wood grain a texture.
Thank you for your attention to detail and keeping the conversation honest, Jack.

 

[Bill_Buttlicker]

In my opinion, if I were in their shoes, I would go sit at the bar. Bartenders (tend to be) your friend in these kind of situations. They know the patrons and can help give you cover if someone gets too fresh. It's subtle, but it's important to have a relationship with the bartender in this situation. Even though she's only 1 person, it's her bar and most people aren't going to ignore a bartender if they're told to fuck off. Sitting at the table will isolate Patricia and Sophia and make them more vulnerable to the crowd. This is one of those Girl 101 things.

How do you know the bar belongs to the bartender? Just because she works there doesn't mean she owns it. It could belong to the guy with the blond beard standing next to her or even someone not shown.

 

[Alley_Cat]

I'll also add that rendering isn't even a bottleneck for L&P. It may have been in the beginning, but it certainly hasn't been since he upgraded his video card(s) at the start of the year.

What the bottleneck is, is Creating Scenes. Finding and modifying assets to suit his purposes. Things like getting the girls yoga outfits to fold for the Yoga event. Or Sophia's outfit for task #3. Creating the bar and all the meatheads just for the concert.

And that L&P is working on his own for no good reason. Yet another dev (BlackWebGames for DDoS) has released the asset list used for their game, for the benefit of fan artists. There was even a moment in the recent update of Free Pass where the dev was having trouble getting shoes to fit. Which is the perfect opportunity for fan artists to spend time working things out, so that the dev can get back to the more artistic side of things.

If any of us in the fan art thread had an actual clue as to what L&P was planning, we could have done all the work creating the location for him, so that he could just choose the one that suited his vision.

 

[L&P's Father-in-Law]

the bottleneck is the artist himself

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

How do you know the bar belongs to the bartender? Just because she works there doesn't mean she owns it. It could belong to the guy with the blond beard standing next to her or even someone not shown.

I'm going to assume this is a language barrier, because clearly I don't mean the bartender literally owns the bar. In this context it's her bar because she's the one working, and that gives her a certain level of authority and ownership over what happens in the establishment. While a bartender can't prevent everything from happening, in most cases what they say goes- and she does not look like the kind of bartender that would be easily ignored by patrons.

 

[ar1122]

where the fuck is the progress report i went like 20 sites back

 

[Talcum Powder]

Your correction is semantically true in the DAZ world. I chose the word 'texture' for the uninitiated. Those unfamiliar with DAZ would call a wood grain a texture.
Thank you for your attention to detail and keeping the conversation honest, Jack.

Cool.
I’m not professing talent nor any expertise with DAZ, I’m just starting my journey. I’m decent enough at model making in Blender but texturing and shading is a world of its own, and I haven’t even started looking at lighting and camera settings.

Make no mistake folks, Lust&Passion is really quite exceptional for a solo artist on his first major project.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

where the fuck is the progress report i went like 20 sites back

There isn't much to see, it's still around 55%/55%/15%/0%. Don't expect the game for a few more months.

 

[Bill_Buttlicker]

I'm going to assume this is a language barrier, because clearly I don't mean the bartender literally owns the bar. In this context it's her bar because she's the one working, and that gives her a certain level of authority and ownership over what happens in the establishment. While a bartender can't prevent everything from happening, in most cases what they say goes- and she does not look like the kind of bartender that would be easily ignored by patrons.

What if it's really a gay biker bar and the bartender is just a butch lesbian

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

What if it's really a gay biker bar and the bartender is just a butch lesbian

I'm sure you're joking, but it really doesn't make a difference. It isn't a sexual thing, it's an acknowledgement that if the bartender tells you to fuck off you better listen or else you're cut off and/or thrown out. So if I was walking into this bar, I would go up to the bar and try to be friendly with the bartender in case she could help me out later. There's other reasons for going up to the bar as well, but for me the first step is building that relationship so that if I'm getting hassled she may step in and help me out.