VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.215f] [Lust & Passion]

[PaxHadrian17]

While I am a Dylan fan, I agree that L&P has been uneven in how he ramped up the relationship feelings between Sophia and Dylan.

For example - Sophia got jealous of Amber's attention to Dylan at the end of the chicken fight, which is a bit ironic since you can only have that fight if the Dylan/Sophia path ends.

On the Dylan/Sophia path, there was no equivalent jealousy shown or real recognition that Dylan was anything more than the baby of the family until Hobo defense in the last rev.

L&P makes a point that Liam teases and puts Dylan down for playing soccer - a game he is very good at, while Sophia recognizes that this is important to Dylan and something he excels in.

She has multiple scenes supporting Dylan as an excellent athlete where there is No evolution of thought about Dylan and seeing him as becoming a man.

He sneaks a kiss and she gets mad - but no thoughts about the passion in the kiss or anything beyond - he needs a girlfriend.

He scores 3 goals in a game (hat trick - which is tough to do in a select league), and it is more of a 'meh' moment than an opportunity for L&P to give us Sophia's internal dialogue about how agile and athletic Dylan is and those were some 'hot' moves.

She could have even backed into that realization by thinking how hot it was for one of the opposing team's players to make a move and score a goal, then recognize how much better Dylan was, how well he moved, closing with her internal dialogue where she chastises herself saying that she should not think of Dylan that way.

L&P gives us significant story evolution with Sophia's internal dialogue (think how far she has come with Ellie and the gradual evolution of their relationship) - but ignores the evolution of Dylan and Sophia by not using that same internal dialogue.

I enjoyed the hobo defense and it was nice for her to show that she was starting to see that he was a man who could and would defend her but it did not have to be a 'magical' switch that got thrown.

It would have been easy for this scene to represent a tipping point with all the 'bread crumbs' leading to this but it was not - it was just a magic switch that L&P flipped.

 

[hzjujk]

I'm in favor of leaving out the Aiden scenes. They cost a lot of development time and are just in the way of the lesbian routes. And the two part-time jobs, and the good wife route, and .... Actually, I am not interested in all the lesbian stuff either, in the interests of the quick completion of the game you can leave that out ....
It is also interested in the surveys by L&P used for your argumentation and you have already panned it as not meaningful.
As a "sensible" person, I would tell the story very differently and not succumb to the power of money.

 

[Alex kryle]

Can anyone tell when is the next teaser coming from....L&P ?

 

[Sabertooth__]

While I am a Dylan fan, I agree that L&P has been uneven in how he ramped up the relationship feelings between Sophia and Dylan.

For example - Sophia got jealous of Amber's attention to Dylan at the end of the chicken fight, which is a bit ironic since you can only have that fight if the Dylan/Sophia path ends.

On the Dylan/Sophia path, there was no equivalent jealousy shown or real recognition that Dylan was anything more than the baby of the family until Hobo defense in the last rev.

L&P makes a point that Liam teases and puts Dylan down for playing soccer - a game he is very good at, while Sophia recognizes that this is important to Dylan and something he excels in.

She has multiple scenes supporting Dylan as an excellent athlete where there is No evolution of thought about Dylan and seeing him as becoming a man.

He sneaks a kiss and she gets mad - but no thoughts about the passion in the kiss or anything beyond - he needs a girlfriend.

He scores 3 goals in a game (hat trick - which is tough to do in a select league), and it is more of a 'meh' moment than an opportunity for L&P to give us Sophia's internal dialogue about how agile and athletic Dylan is and those were some 'hot' moves.

She could have even backed into that realization by thinking how hot it was for one of the opposing team's players to make a move and score a goal, then recognize how much better Dylan was, how well he moved, closing with her internal dialogue where she chastises herself saying that she should not think of Dylan that way.

L&P gives us significant story evolution with Sophia's internal dialogue (think how far she has come with Ellie and the gradual evolution of their relationship) - but ignores the evolution of Dylan and Sophia by not using that same internal dialogue.

I enjoyed the hobo defense and it was nice for her to show that she was starting to see that he was a man who could and would defend her but it did not have to be a 'magical' switch that got thrown.

It would have been easy for this scene to represent a tipping point with all the 'bread crumbs' leading to this but it was not - it was just a magic switch that L&P flipped.

I feel pretty much everything wrong with what you said.

Sophia does not see Dylan as a man because he is her SON. No mother sees her son as man just because he is good at sports, or got 3 goals or sneaked in a kiss. That kiss didn't even last a second, what passion would be in it.

All of this happened at a very initial phase of the Dylan route, where Sophia only saw him as her son. It is After the bikini event Sophia started seeing that her son can also be mature and not just a whining boy.

People who believe Dylan's personality changed all of a sudden and it was unrealistic. How much do we know Dylan's character. Do people really believe they can decide for sure who is what based on a mere character introduction and few short scenes. We all thought Ellie to be the kind who is sexually active and has probably had sex with many guys seeing how she was all making out Infront of her mother with a guy she just met. Then comes the revelation that she is a virgin. So just assuming what Dylan is based on the initial days of the game and calling anything new about the character as poorly written or incorrect is not right.

When he stood up for her against the hobos it finally tipped the scale towards Dylan being recognised as a man by her.
It would be the case for any mother, the difference would be a normal mother won't think sexually about this but Sophia's thought are a bit leaning towards that.

There has been gradual progression and no out of nowhere huge event for Dylan. Slowly and steadily things have moved and I just don't understand why most people consider even the smallest if things as a sign of something huge.

They stop thinking like an actual human but more like the characters of the porn game, making a mountain out if molehill, with only how every word could mean that the dev is insinuating sex between two characters.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

Can anyone tell when is the next teaser coming from....L&P ?

He doesn't give dates on when he's going to drop the next teaser. He just posts a new teaser when he feels like it.

 

[sphynks80]

There is no need to represent Dylan's psychological growth path in a linear and meticulous progression as if it were a diagram. If you think about it, most of the times we have drastically changed our opinion about someone we have done so all of a sudden. Until the day before he seemed like a big baby and the next day he becomes a mature and responsible man and, in the case of a woman who changes perception of a man, even sexy and desirable. Naturally the character in question will have gone through a very complicated and tormented phase of change but it is not certain that we grasp all the steps of this change. So Sophia may very well notice Dylan's change from one day to the next, and be surprised. Indeed, this surprise can be a formidable "dramaturgical" resource and trigger a whole series of narrative stunts that are very useful to the story.

 

[hzjujk]

I feel pretty much everything wrong with what you said.

Sophia does not see Dylan as a man because he is her SON. No mother sees her son as man just because he is good at sports, or got 3 goals or sneaked in a kiss. That kiss didn't even last a second, what passion would be in it.

All of this happened at a very initial phase of the Dylan route, where Sophia only saw him as her son. It is After the bikini event Sophia started seeing that her son can also be mature and not just a whining boy.

People who believe Dylan's personality changed all of a sudden and it was unrealistic. How much do we know Dylan's character. Do people really believe they can decide for sure who is what based on a mere character introduction and few short scenes. We all thought Ellie to be the kind who is sexually active and has probably had sex with many guys seeing how she was all making out Infront of her mother with a guy she just met. Then comes the revelation that she is a virgin. So just assuming what Dylan is based on the initial days of the game and calling anything new about the character as poorly written or incorrect is not right.

When he stood up for her against the hobos it finally tipped the scale towards Dylan being recognised as a man by her.
It would be the case for any mother, the difference would be a normal mother won't think sexually about this but Sophia's thought are a bit leaning towards that.

There has been gradual progression and no out of nowhere huge event for Dylan. Slowly and steadily things have moved and I just don't understand why most people consider even the smallest if things as a sign of something huge.

They stop thinking like an actual human but more like the characters of the porn game, making a mountain out if molehill, with only how every word could mean that the dev is insinuating sex between two characters.

Fighting with the hobo was typical of a child teenager. It was the continuation of the scene when Dylan was introduced to the Seal and he blurted out asking if he would learn to kill with the edge of his hand. Sophia should have recognized that! So it was no advance in Dylan's development. He only got one more tool to act out his play instinct. Dylan is still where he was at the beginning of the game, just with a different haircut.
If he avoids the fight or consciously loses although he is superior and yet achieved his goal, then he has made progress in his development.

 

[Alley_Cat]

Fighting with the hobo was typical of a child teenager. It was the continuation of the scene when Dylan was introduced to the Seal and he blurted out asking if he would learn to kill with the edge of his hand. Sophia should have recognized that! So it was no advance in Dylan's development. He only got one more tool to act out his play instinct. Dylan is still where he was at the beginning of the game, just with a different haircut.
If he avoids the fight or consciously loses although he is superior and yet achieved his goal, then he has made progress in his development.

Is it possible for him to avoid the fight but for the player to continue the Sophia/Dylan path though?

 

[hzjujk]

Is it possible for him to avoid the fight but for the player to continue the Sophia/Dylan path though?

I should have phrased the statement in such a way that it becomes clear that I am referring to possible future events.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

I feel pretty much everything wrong with what you said.

Sophia does not see Dylan as a man because he is her SON. No mother sees her son as man just because he is good at sports, or got 3 goals or sneaked in a kiss. That kiss didn't even last a second, what passion would be in it.

By this logic, Ellie should be in the same boat with Dylan and not where she is right now or one step above Dylan but behind the rest of the cast. Ellie is the DAUGHTER of Sophia. The only difference is she is female. But for some reason, beyond logic, because she is female, she jumps to the front of the line, but people leave out the important part: she is still her DAUGHTER. If you look at how the story progresses on both sides, Sophia is already making out with her DAUGHTER in the shower, and Sophia is giving hints to Ellie on "Finding Nemo" the right way. It should have never been that easy with Ellie.

All of this happened at a very initial phase of the Dylan route, where Sophia only saw him as her son. It is After the bikini event Sophia started seeing that her son can also be mature and not just a whining boy.

Up to this point, P.D. 11, Dylan has been doing lots of Perverted Things, Spying, "First Person" Shooters, etc... She didn't really see him as a "Whining Boy" until this update in the park with the Hobos. Before that, she was treating everything as it was "SEX-ED." If you reread the text, you'll find that Dylan said in the Bikini Event, "I can't believe it worked." which tells me he was planning this because Sophia said this would be the last time you'll get to see this in the Mall Event with Dylan. So he was manipulating the scene to see her nude or as close to being nude as possible. And when she heard Dylan speaking about those words, she asked him, "What did you say?" and his response was "Nothing."

People who believe Dylan's personality changed all of a sudden and it was unrealistic. How much do we know Dylan's character. Do people really believe they can decide for sure who is what based on a mere character introduction and few short scenes. We all thought Ellie to be the kind who is sexually active and has probably had sex with many guys seeing how she was all making out Infront of her mother with a guy she just met. Then comes the revelation that she is a virgin. So just assuming what Dylan is based on the initial days of the game and calling anything new about the character as poorly written or incorrect is not right.

When he stood up for her against the hobos it finally tipped the scale towards Dylan being recognised as a man by her.
It would be the case for any mother, the difference would be a normal mother won't think sexually about this but Sophia's thought are a bit leaning towards that.

It did change all of a sudden. There was no build-up to P.D. 12. You can see it for yourself. Indeed, we may not know the entire story, but we can only base our thoughts on what we know at present. The initial days of the game time period are maybe the first 3 or 4 days of the novel. Finally, we are at P.D. 12, which is almost halfway through the novel and now out of the infant stages of the novel. As the novel progresses, our thoughts will change with the new information we learn from the story.

This is what happens when you have 79+ characters with who she has interacted throughout the novel. You start to develop plotholes because many characters play a role, and L&P only has a limited amount of time to tell the tale, which screentime is limited. So, IMO, He should have to trim the fat at the start, In which he could have put more focus on key characters in the novel. And it appears we are starting to see that with the "Coach Sophia" going to DLC. Also, L&P is dropping hints that the 1st part of Sophia/Sam evening event may end up as DLC as well. What else will probably go "DLC" at this point?

We already discussed this part in another post, but IMO, there is nothing "Symbolic" about beating up a drunk guy because he ran his mouth, as this is the word you used to describe that part. As I said in my response, most people who deal with drunk people that talk "Trash" usually ignore them or tell them to move along. Now, If L&P wrote in such a way that the Drunk Hobo was invading her personal space and was trying to get up close and personal, like the thugs in the subway, after running their mouth and making gestures, and Dylan defender her then, I could say that would be "Symbolic" and I could see it fit into that scene much better, then what was shown.

There has been gradual progression and no out of nowhere huge event for Dylan. Slowly and steadily things have moved and I just don't understand why most people consider even the smallest if things as a sign of something huge.

They stop thinking like an actual human but more like the characters of the porn game, making a mountain out if molehill, with only how every word could mean that the dev is insinuating sex between two characters.

The progression that has been shown has been "Two steps forward, One step back" when it comes to Sophia/Dylan. The gradual progression can work if there is a part in the story that feels impactful. Washing Dishes in the hope you can see Sophia changed in the mall or at some other point wasn't really impactful or huge. That was just someone washing dishes. The only little things I've seen were the foot massage and spending time with Sophia during the mall scene, cloth shopping for the Aiden event that had some impact. You probably could add some scenes from the Bikini event as well, but I don't think it was that impactful considering her thoughts at the end. At most, it was chipping the ice away with a hammer and chisel.

The only "Impactful" thing people are talking about is defending her in the park. IMO, it wasn't really that impactful taking into consideration again the drunk hobos.

 

[Bahraini]

No, you got far more than that in the update. Apparently those on the Dylan route got hours worth of content last update.

There was nothing sexual in the last update, Dylan had a fight with the homeless then massages Sophias butt, it took me around 15 minutes to finish it.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

There was nothing sexual in the last update, Dylan had a fight with the homeless then massages Sophias butt, it took me around 15 minutes to finish it.

To be fair, Dylan did put his arm around her waist as they walked home.

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

Lol, that happens in your much loved you BaDik too. And I can say many things that seem stupid in that game too but the point is I'm not gonna go to that thread and irritate others by posting the same things again and again and comparing two games.

Do you really think people will subsribe for a 20 year long development cycle? No, right?
Just look at Old Dog, he supported as long as he liked and stopped supporting. If you want you can call that he realised what you have been saying all the time but the point is others will do the same if they don't like it. So you don't have to bring that up again and again.


Lol, what are you now? Marketing account for BaDik?
But I think you are more active in this thread than BaDik. Obsession?
Yeah, whatever.
I think you are matured enough to understand that repeating the same thing can be annoying, so let people decide what they want.

I have no clue what Viper's commentary was. I used a small option called IGNORE. It really cleaned up the thread for me. Just sayin'!

 

[Deleted member 3325933]

I believe that one good way to start rebooting AWAM would be the wrapping up of the two side-jobs. It would be worthwhile spending an update on this, if it meant that future updates came faster. Where the old men are concerned there are two possible rapid endings. Firstly, they could just get better & go home. If a less boring finale was preferred, Sophia could pose in the naughty nurse costume to 'boost their morale', only to be caught by her boss & asked to either resign or be sacked.

Where the home tutoring is concerned, the boys mother could walk in on Sophia's unorthodox, (to say the least), teaching methods & ask her to resign, or the boys could inadvertently tell Ava, with the same result.

Both the jobs could be brought to a rapid but logical conclusion. Alternatively, or alongside such events, Sophia could be required to work more hours at the school, which would be smooth & realistic. Again, she could be needed for the full-time role, in which case there would be no drama with the jobs, she'd just explain why she had to leave & she could still have worn the nurse outfit!

I.e. a simple narrative clean up of the spider web of paths leading to whatever series of non stop sexual encounters he is planning to put Sophia into. I like the plan. Ain't gonna happen with L&P but, I like the idea.

 

[roro]

By this logic, Ellie should be in the same boat with Dylan and not where she is right now or one step above Dylan but behind the rest of the cast. Ellie is the DAUGHTER of Sophia. The only difference is she is female.

That's not the only difference (Dylan is introverted with girls, while Ellie is much more confident than him) but that's a huge one, and in my opinion it justifies the gap in progress.

If you reread the text, you'll find that Dylan said in the Bikini Event, "I can't believe it worked." which tells me he was planning this because Sophia said this would be the last time you'll get to see this in the Mall Event with Dylan. So he was manipulating the scene to see her nude or as close to being nude as possible. And when she heard Dylan speaking about those words, she asked him, "What did you say?" and his response was "Nothing."

Imo, the "I can't believe it worked" statement is a leftover of Dylan and Aiden's deal that was already cancelled...

 

[Atton563]

That's not the only difference (Dylan is introverted with girls, while Ellie is much more confident than him) but that's a huge one, and in my opinion it justifies the gap in progress.

Speaking as an introvet it makes no sense for Dylan to be introverted around his mom, if anything he would be more comfortable with her than any other women.

 

[Scarlet56]

To be fair, Dylan did put his arm around her waist as they walked home.

There was so much possibility with this scene. (park)
Like asking Dylan to prove it was his girlfriend by kissing her, things like that.
It would have been nice

 

[nexer]

Can anyone tell when is the next teaser coming from....L&P ?

Well, look, there it is, the two pigeons


This, L&P created at the beginning of the game, which makes me think that the content with Sam was intended to be bigger.

 

[Hlextor]

Well, look, there it is, the two pigeons
View attachment 1401462

This, L&P created at the beginning of the game, which makes me think that the content with Sam was intended to be bigger.

I asked him once if that was Sam with Sophia. He denied it. It is not a character that appears in the game. For me it is Sam. He looks very much like him.

 

[lockerxx]

) "Coach Sophia"

That one was cut from the game.