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- Thread starter Emerald_Deceivers
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HollowDux
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I totally agree with everything you wrote. And you know what is most funny in all that? In the Developer Notes it is still written that there is multiple path one focused on lesbian, and one focused on het
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FatGiant
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Thanks for this.
I am still maybe halfway through the game, and sincerely, was considering dropping it. Why? Because I started playing because of the said Lesbian route, yet, my FMC keeps finding ways to gather male hard-ons and getting excited over them. So, I was mystified. Thinking, "Does the Dev not know what a Lesbian is?" and "What the fuck is she doing exposing herself to males?".
So, as you can imagine, this was rather confusing, and to be honest, it felt like a bait-and-switch, as in you promised something that you didn't want to make and pretended you did it but not really...
From reading your explanations, I get the feeling that this isn't really a Lesbian game. Maybe not even Bisexual. The FMC feels and please do correct me if I'm wrong, like a Bi-Curious girl that it's actually Straight. Sure she likes the attention of Females, she may even like to touch and kiss them, but her real interests are in getting males hard... ??? I dunno.
I am perfectly aware that sexuality is a spectrum rather than perfectly closed boxes, but, then you, as a Creator, should be a LOT more specific about what your game contains, labeling a Bi-Curious Straight female as Lesbian is either naive or deceitful. I do hope it is naive, the other option is rather disgusting.
Then reading that there's some future changes and maybe a hint of possible corrections, brings some peace into this.
If I could suggest something, please, if that is the direction you are taking this, remove the mentions to a Lesbian route and find a better way to describe the sexual orientation of our FMC, because whatever she may be, a Lesbian she isn't, at least at this point I am in the game.
That I am quite unexcited to continue reading this story, because of this indecision/imprecision/inaccuracy about her orientation and how much of it is in our hands to control (you promised routes, none is available) should be quite obvious.
Anyway, thanks for trying to explain.
Peace
Hungover00
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- Apr 29, 2023
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I'd disagree with you here. I think the FMC is primarily an exhibitionist, and may be bi or lesbian. She's highly motivated by being seen in erotic ways, everything else is secondary.Thanks for this.
I am still maybe halfway through the game, and sincerely, was considering dropping it. Why? Because I started playing because of the said Lesbian route, yet, my FMC keeps finding ways to gather male hard-ons and getting excited over them. So, I was mystified. Thinking, "Does the Dev not know what a Lesbian is?" and "What the fuck is she doing exposing herself to males?".
So, as you can imagine, this was rather confusing, and to be honest, it felt like a bait-and-switch, as in you promised something that you didn't want to make and pretended you did it but not really...
From reading your explanations, I get the feeling that this isn't really a Lesbian game. Maybe not even Bisexual. The FMC feels and please do correct me if I'm wrong, like a Bi-Curious girl that it's actually Straight. Sure she likes the attention of Females, she may even like to touch and kiss them, but her real interests are in getting males hard... ??? I dunno.
I am perfectly aware that sexuality is a spectrum rather than perfectly closed boxes, but, then you, as a Creator, should be a LOT more specific about what your game contains, labeling a Bi-Curious Straight female as Lesbian is either naive or deceitful. I do hope it is naive, the other option is rather disgusting.
Then reading that there's some future changes and maybe a hint of possible corrections, brings some peace into this.
If I could suggest something, please, if that is the direction you are taking this, remove the mentions to a Lesbian route and find a better way to describe the sexual orientation of our FMC, because whatever she may be, a Lesbian she isn't, at least at this point I am in the game.
That I am quite unexcited to continue reading this story, because of this indecision/imprecision/inaccuracy about her orientation and how much of it is in our hands to control (you promised routes, none is available) should be quite obvious.
Anyway, thanks for trying to explain.
Peace
FatGiant
Conversation Conqueror
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How does that intersects with a "Lesbian Route" is my problem. But even exhibitionists have a preferred public, I think... I confess I know very little of that because I simply have no interest in it.
If that is the single focus of this, I think I am in the wrong place and it's better to just drop this and forget it. But, then, why promise a Lesbian Route? I don't get it... Anyway...
Peace
CutieLvr
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- Jun 3, 2020
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That's exactly right, you do your thing. I myself only try to give ideas, food for thought. But, you don't have to act on anything that you don't like. Do your game to make you happy and let the chips fall...........
HollowDux
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Hungover00
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'Have fun
I appreciate the reply and I can always respect when a dev can approach players and their criticism openly and with a clear head. After giving it some time to cool off, and after reading your reply, I did decide to stick it through to the end of this version to see if it gets better, and while there were still a couple of scenes that irked me because of forced situations (like the mall scene with the bullies/haircut), I will openly admit that the number of choices and the pacing did seem to improve by the end. It's just a shame that the first part of the game feels like such a linear and frustrating path to get to that point.
Like you said, somewhere down the road when the games been developed enough I think it really would be a good idea to try and rework some elements of, or even just rewrite, the beginning. After all, it's first impressions that maintain a players interest and, without trying to be too disparaging, right now the first impression is the weakest part of it. I know my criticism was pretty harsh, but it's more because the game wasn't what I was personally hoping for than anything, and we clearly have differing ideas of where we wanted the story to go.
It's obvious when a dev cares about what they're making, and as a player, despite whatever issue I may personally find with a game, the last thing I want to do is shit on a persons genuine effort or negatively impact their motivation to create or improve. I don't know if I'll come back to this game before the time it's finished, or if it just isn't for me, but I hope I didn't get you down too much and I sincerely wish you the best in making it.
- Nov 9, 2021
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OK, I think I know where all this confusion lies. I'll take full responsibility. I'm not that bright.
You're correct in that I'm approaching sexuality as on a spectrum, especially due to my own experiences. You're correct in that Steph is technically bi or bi-curious, especially in the first half, but I hoped (and my shitty writing is at fault for this) that this is conveyed by her being fascinated by sexuality, period; and the effect she has on others. The salaciousness and transgression is what she's drawn to, aside from male or female. By "lesbian route" I meant to indicate that as the game progresses and she's in a situation, she can choose male or female or both - specifically when it comes to sex and romance. Again, I wasn't clear. It wasn't on purpose. I'd have absolutely nothing to gain by misleading people and pissing them off.
In my defense I never said Steph is a lesbian, nor did I ever characterize my game as a lesbian game. Only that it would contain a "lesbian route" as mentioned above, indicating she can choose who to romance or have sex with. If, to some people, only choosing the female makes her a lesbian, great; if, to others, because she gets off by turning on other people (even men) due to her blossoming sensuality, she's not a lesbian, fine - I capitulate. So yes, that is misleading because she's not technically a lesbian. Am I getting this right?
Obviously if the game had more choices to really differentiate things that'd be ideal - but it's not feasible with the limited amount of time I have to work on the game. I will say the two paths start to diverge more as the game progresses and Steph tries to figure things out, though.
I've updated the Dev notes; I also know it has the lesbian tag, but I don't know of a better alternative - does f95 have a het or bi tag, even? The tag is there because the game contains lesbian experiences and elements, not because it's a purely lesbian focused game or because the MC is a lesbian. I don't know, but I'm always open to suggestions on how to keep people from being unintentionally misled. Maybe I should just remove the tag - but then I'm opening myself up to those disaffected by all the f/f content they weren't expecting. I'm at a loss and feeling discouraged on how to make things clearer aside from all these long-winded replies.
Thanks for taking the time to convey your thoughts and concerns! It really helps!
twiz4
Newbie
- Oct 28, 2019
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Just to throw out my $.02 on the matter...
I can see both sides. There's frustration in a game with choices when the MC does things that you didn't choose for them to do. For those who don't want to experience all of the content, that can be bothersome. I said in a previous post that the brother and his friends really bother me, but to me it's probably less because of them being male, and more because I'd love to punt them each out a window. So when the MC is doing stuff with them, and I can't stop it, it's irksome.
With that said, I see the dev side of this where this is a game of sexual exploration. So for her, both males and females are on the table as she tries to figure herself out and understand what she likes. But again, when you have a sex game that has choices, watching her do something sexual the player didn't choose for her can frustrate a player.
I think the solution, if the game stays on the path it's on, is to go back through and add a bit more choices in certain areas so that people who don't want male or female flirting, or perhaps want to avoid certain scenarios or fetishes like incest, can avoid it better. Then moving forward, the game can be split into straight/bi/lesbian paths. Yeah, it's a lot of work, but it'd clear up confusion and give more definitive choices to the player. It could also simply be more kinetic, or a fully kinetic game, and remove choices entirely, if the idea is to show the whole content of the game and give a set ending. You're also not going to satisfy everyone, so don't kill yourself trying to please all of us. It's about what you're trying to make.
As far as tags go, that's an ongoing issue on pretty much every site. We really do need Bisexual tags, along with "Girl on Girl" and "Guy on Guy" for games that have this content, but do not offer a strictly lesbian or gay path. As the tags are now, I wouldn't remove the lesbian tag, since the content is in there.
You're doing good work Emerald, especially for your first go. Games in active development are gonna hit snags like this. Maybe review and re-map what you're trying to accomplish? Remember: it's your project. You've gotta make the game you want to see.
I can see both sides. There's frustration in a game with choices when the MC does things that you didn't choose for them to do. For those who don't want to experience all of the content, that can be bothersome. I said in a previous post that the brother and his friends really bother me, but to me it's probably less because of them being male, and more because I'd love to punt them each out a window. So when the MC is doing stuff with them, and I can't stop it, it's irksome.
With that said, I see the dev side of this where this is a game of sexual exploration. So for her, both males and females are on the table as she tries to figure herself out and understand what she likes. But again, when you have a sex game that has choices, watching her do something sexual the player didn't choose for her can frustrate a player.
I think the solution, if the game stays on the path it's on, is to go back through and add a bit more choices in certain areas so that people who don't want male or female flirting, or perhaps want to avoid certain scenarios or fetishes like incest, can avoid it better. Then moving forward, the game can be split into straight/bi/lesbian paths. Yeah, it's a lot of work, but it'd clear up confusion and give more definitive choices to the player. It could also simply be more kinetic, or a fully kinetic game, and remove choices entirely, if the idea is to show the whole content of the game and give a set ending. You're also not going to satisfy everyone, so don't kill yourself trying to please all of us. It's about what you're trying to make.
As far as tags go, that's an ongoing issue on pretty much every site. We really do need Bisexual tags, along with "Girl on Girl" and "Guy on Guy" for games that have this content, but do not offer a strictly lesbian or gay path. As the tags are now, I wouldn't remove the lesbian tag, since the content is in there.
You're doing good work Emerald, especially for your first go. Games in active development are gonna hit snags like this. Maybe review and re-map what you're trying to accomplish? Remember: it's your project. You've gotta make the game you want to see.
Olivia_V
Active Member
- Jun 5, 2017
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It's not that a lesbian path requires the complete absence of males, it's that it would be nice to choose how our characters would react to them. Like, she can chose not to get giddy over male attention or whatnot. Give us the choice to determine that our character can react or feel in a lesbian way to stuff like that. For example, MC sees a hard on? Give us the choice to have her say "eww no" instead of just blushing and obssessing over it.
GreenDark
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- Jul 25, 2018
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Hey, new dev. Welcome to F95. People here have very strong opinions and even stronger, sometimes desperate, desires to see exactly what they want in a game. I hope you can find success despite the difficult discussions happening in your game's thread.
I played your game. I have some criticisms as well but overall I liked it and think there is a lot to praise. I'm interested in keeping an eye on where it goes next.
I played your game. I have some criticisms as well but overall I liked it and think there is a lot to praise. I'm interested in keeping an eye on where it goes next.
Ssato243
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FatGiant
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Hungover00
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Summer in the City dealt with this in a simple way, one of the earliest choices (if not the first choice) is whether Summer is bi or lesbian. You still have choices for both routes, but you avoid all male/female non friendship options if you pick lesbian. Never have to consider it again.
FatGiant
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Agreed.
________________
Now, I may be wrong, but, it feels like we are having a conversation about 2 different things.
1- Lesbian as a Life Style.
2- Lesbian as a Fetish.
On the #1 option, there really is not much room for males. Sure they can be present in the world, but, whether they are aroused or even paying attention is irrelevant. Should NOT even be part of the decisions. To be honest the "Eww No" approach is the only one that makes any sense.
On the #2, well, the MC is Straight. Sure, it will court with females as a kink, but nothing Romantic. I wouldn't even classify it as Bi. While it can be deemed so technically, it wouldn't be emotionally. The difference is the same as "To BE" and "To DO". The Lesbian part of this would be performative, like an act or a role play.
I may be reading too much into the words of the Dev, but, that's what feels that he's aiming to, this game is not a Life Style, but a Fetishism.
From his words, it feels like the FMC is more enamored of what she feels, than by whom she gets the feels from. The risk taking, the exposure, is what drives her. In a way, this is more about sensuality then sexuality. This is more about feeling, than doing. She's not BEING lesbian, but, DOING lesbian things.
________________
This leads ME, to conclude that unless this changes from Doing to Being, my interest is almost gone. While the Life Style play really gets me going, the Role Play doesn't, at all.
YMMV.
Peace