About Game design: Visible Locked choices on conversations

[SeventhVixen]

I'd get to a point in the development of my game that I should make a choice. A choice about choices.

What do you people think about conversational options like "(Not enought points of certain stat) Approach her"?
And, in second place, the reverse "(Avaible because certain stat reached) Apporach her"

First of all I must say that as I'm asking because It's precisely about what to incorporate on my project,, better clarify that I'm not talking about "Stats that you must grind/paywall"etc, but stats that you develop making other conversational choices (Lewdnes, Ambition, etc). The path that you're taking, in a more thoughtful or random way. (In the example option, it will be Lewdness)

I don't specially like it, more so in the era of games in progress (you never know if it's just a teaser).

cons:
-inmersion breaking
-player may think it's a teaser. Or worst, it's a teaser and player may break his head trying to reach that stats, just to finally find online that the feature is not implemented. (Maybe I only consider this as a con myself because It specially raise my eyebrow)

pros:
-(About the locked) You know there is a option that you "choose" willingly or unwilingly to ignore, but maybe you can return later if its not a unique event). (So you know that the content is there).
-(About the locked) You know that in another run of the game, you could do different things in order to pick that option.
-(About the unlocked) You feel succesfull, as you are able to do that action.


(For my initial research I think the pros wins over the cons, even if I don't totally like the idea)

What do you think about the topic?
PS: I know I'll know what to do with my game, I just wanna hear your opinions

 

[GuyFreely]

I think the primary question here is revealing underlying game mechanics to the player for better understanding. If it's not a stat grinding game where the stats are always on display, then I would avoid it. My suggestions would be to make it something players can choose to see. By default, I would not show the mechanics of the game as I do agree it's immersion breaking. However, I realize some people won't play games without a wiki or walkthrough. For that type of player, showing them exactly what's going on can help.

 

[polywog]

Some people play though a game all the way to the end before they realize that there were unlockables all along the way. I forget which of the tomb raider games had like 20+ treasures that you had to grind for, but you didn't have to to complete the game.
grind is fun for some, others hate it. so it's good to let players skip past it if they don't like it. you don't want people hating your game.

In your method of showing them what they are missing -unclickable because of poor prior choices
it could be interpreted in different ways by different players
if it's too late to fix the problem at this point... then the dev is just rubbing it in

if you look at some of the game mods on here, some of them highlight the optional paths
choice 1 if you want to end with girl 1 choice 2 if you want to end with girl 2
with the suggestion to save-game here if you want to try both routes in another play through
without having to start from the beginning.
I choose the non-blonde route, and no need to go the blonde way
others might want to replay for the blonde

If the unclickable button is not rubbing it in that you screwed up, like mouse over gives a pop up hint how to correct the problem
some players might appreciate that.

don't get me wrong, consequences in games are good. but there should be some guiding light in the storytelling
"If I steal a 4th pair of her panties, she might become suspicious, and not trust me later on"
"but 3 is good and it will increase my chances of running into her in the laundry room"

 

[Deviant Delights]

I could go either way depending on the type of game it is.

A game where your ultimate goal is to bed women, displaying locked dialogue branches would be very useful to let the player know what options are available and guide them to reach the goal.

On the other hand, displaying the locked dialogue branches in a mystery/suspense game would break immersion IMO. There's not much suspense if you're telling them what they need to do.

A third option is to implement the locked dialog branches but give the players an option in their preferences to disable it. That would be the best of both worlds IMO.

That's similar to the approach I took with Hints in my game.

 

[Kaffekop]

I'm not sure there is a right answer to this question. Personally I have some choices hidden until the MC has gathered a certain level of "Energy". No one but myself knows of this to begin with and I believe that this is the best course when it comes to my project.

Is it the best course for yours, I haven't got the foggiest. In my opinion you're the only one who can answer that. In the end the only opinion that matters is your own because if you feel you're forced down a road of development, that you cannot truly get behind, then I believe you risk getting unhappy with your project and an unhappy developer could lead to abandonment of the project.

This is my take on it and I'm not even sure I'm right, but I have realized that you need to feel right about what you do, or some of that drive any developer must have, might just disappear.

Another point of view, you might consider, is that anything hidden, won't stay hidden for long. Players are way more ressourceful than we can even imagine. There is always someone out there, that will find that hidden choice, and that in turn will spark conversations on fora, such as this, about how to get to that particular conversation. Free advertizing (hype), so to speak and there is never enough of that - especially in our circles.

The real question here, imho, is: How important is that hidden choice going to be?

If it's not important enough to warrant a new play through the whole project, then maybe it shouldn't be there in the first place.

I'm just ranting now, so ... I'll shut up now.

Good luck with your project.

Cheers - Kaffekop

 

[215303j]

I kind of like the way A Wife and Mother approaches this: "Offer Massage" is greyed out because requirement Dylan > 10 is not met. It creates a kind of transparency about content that's there but you chose something else. Likely, when Dylan < 10, you have chosen to ignore Dylan previously because he didn't appeal to you. Such as you chose to ignore "Peek" (Dylan +2).
Personally I don't find it particularly immersion breaking although it does depend on the game. In a mystery / thriller it obviously wouldn't work.

Also, it offers the player the option to cheat using the console: set Dylan = 11, and problem solved. Without needing a new playthrough just to get to that content.

Personally I have some choices hidden until the MC has gathered a certain level of "Energy". No one but myself knows of this to begin with and I believe that this is the best course when it comes to my project.

Now that's just sneaky!!!

(and you could have put that behind a spoiler )

 

[Kaffekop]

@Thialf
Yeah I could, couldn't I. Probably should have, but I'm counting on not being stalked in here, and that most players won't read my post here.
Besides K9 has already included one of them in his walkthrough, so at least one of them has been found.

Cheers - Kaffekop

 

[SeventhVixen]

Those are very interesting reflexions.

About just making an optional kind of user guide (like hiding/showing tags on choices) is quite good. Would increase a bit the scripting pain, but well making a game is major pain so All right. Solves the pros and cons as it's just left to player choice.

But that kind of decision, also opens the door to... should I indicate not only what choices are Stat-locked but also what choices give stats points? ... And that's.. I don't know if it's a dangerous path of going over easy on the player or just being fair.

I think I have to think this more thoroughly. Maybe I can left it until a "new batch of testers" tell me the general feeling in the next update

Lucky me I'm on a point that I can go back and add more things without much danger...

You're right @Kaffekop in your assertion. Thing is with my project is, that in full game, there are gonna be quite diferentiate endings (3) that branch since middle game. First decisions don't matter that much, but middle games decisions start the unstoppable branching. Player got visual prompts when important things happens (change in loyalty, change in stats, and can always check a large and informative menu about their progress.

I think anyone that will like my game will be ok with playing 2 or 3 times if they wanna see all the different stories, but I don't wanna make that they feel like even then, they lost half content because "didn't find", "didn't look on forums". But @polywog you're right that some players don't care to see it all. That's up to every player.

So.............................. I think I'm gonna stick to wait until first release, that will have quite enough choices (more than 2 hours of gameplay), so players will give me direct feedback... And this is in fact just following my hunch of just not showing the Locked options. But I think I'm gonna show the unlocked options. (So player is rewarded and don't feel locked-off)

Well well.. I'll see...And hear more opinions about particular games you played and how they handle it (without cheats and stuff xD)

 

[Sphere42]

You can pre-empt con #2 by changing the stat display to a "Not Yet Implemented" tag in that instance.

A potentially more immersive option for some situations is to have the option there, not greyed out or locked, but have the chosen action fail with little to no consequences if the requirements aren't met. This also adds an opportunity to reinforce the tone of your game or provide hints:

• [Grab her tits]: <slaps hand away> "Wha-? Oh silly me, I forgot my bra again "
• [Call after her]: "You try to say something but the words are lost before they leave your mouth."
• [Ask for anal]: "Well, did you bring any lube? I don't want to be sore afterwards!"

Depending on the stats in question you can also reference them or give rough estimates i.e. "we haven't even had our 3rd date yet" or "what, do you think I am some kind of Pervert?" (when one displayed rank for the "Lewdness" stat is in fact "Pervert")

 

[GuyFreely]

I'll try not to derail the thread too much, but I want to make one point clear here. Some people are referring to probelms that are a larger issue of making impactful choices in games. Namely, the player knows when they are making a decision, what that decision means to the story. Even if the player doesn't know exactly where a decision will lead, the path should follow logically from the decision. If I have a free day and I can spend that day with Character1 or Character2, then it stands to reason I'm choosing one over the other. So it makes sense if later I have more options with the character I chose to spend time with and less options with the other. Games that have nonsensical moon logic have a deeper problem. If picking the blue dress on Tuesday means I don't get a blowjob on Thursday, it's hard to make that connection. So if a game features bullshit like this, only a guide will help you.

Like I mentioned, if this is the type of game where you don't have an option unlocked YET, then having an indicator that it can be unlocked might be helpful. If that ship has sailed, there is no real point in showing the path not taken imo. It should be a reasonable expectation from a player that if they had done things differently, the results would be different. If I am constantly given choices to be kind or mean to a character, I should expect that those choices are changing the results. So it stands to reason if I am kind in one play through, I didn't see what would happen if I was mean.

 

[SeventhVixen]

You can pre-empt con #2 by changing the stat display to a "Not Yet Implemented" tag in that instance.

A potentially more immersive option for some situations is to have the option there, not greyed out or locked, but have the chosen action fail with little to no consequences if the requirements aren't met. This also adds an opportunity to reinforce the tone of your game or provide hints:

• [Grab her tits]: <slaps hand away> "Wha-? Oh silly me, I forgot my bra again "
• [Call after her]: "You try to say something but the words are lost before they leave your mouth."
• [Ask for anal]: "Well, did you bring any lube? I don't want to be sore afterwards!"

Depending on the stats in question you can also reference them or give rough estimates i.e. "we haven't even had our 3rd date yet" or "what, do you think I am some kind of Pervert?" (when one displayed rank for the "Lewdness" stat is in fact "Pervert")

Exactly in this kind of example I was working as the first example where I could start putting "warning" about that you can do X because X. (I'll ilustrate the situation just for the fun of it). And, this, specific example, it's an event or chain of events with absolute no consequence for the main game.

Exact situation is... After 1 hour of quite linear prologue you are freeroaming. You enter a tavern (not a place you are tell to go, nor a person your tell to talk at all, any time nor never. In fact, all that town can be resolved without ever step in that tavern, unless I change things to force players go all unnecesary places),



By day, (there is night and day) somes days, but not all days there's a single lady-worker up there (She's just an unconsequential npc to the main plot, but you can bang her). She says it's closed. If you meet up with her before during night events in the tavern, you might gain his trust (Because wathever reasons indirectly related to her). But If you didn't do anything of that, like never went to the tavern, she just says the tavern it's closed.


In that case you can say to her, "Thanks goodbye" whatever.But if during the 1 hour prologue you've built up all the lewdness avaible (instead of piety, knightlyhood..), You have 1 more option avaible. "Advance on Her."



Then, if you have gained his humor by the other events, she can be polite and accept your compliments and ahem ahem, or refuse you like the perv you are. (well, you've worked your way up to now being as perv as you can't be, but c'mon, don't even know the wench!




You can repeat the try in the future (gonna be refused if not get better humor of her by indirect events, but if you keep failing eventually she'll just hate in this playthru beyond recovery)... But If you don't have the lewdness required and the locked option is not suggested, it's quite possible that after 2 or 3 times you visit the location and she only say that it's locked, you'll never return to it or even thing there is an event avaible (unless screenshots, trailer, forum... things that requiere an active user that wanna see the most content it can.

I understand that any player that really like the game will investigate all bend and turn, play multiple times etc.
But when designing a game you must design it for the average player, that one that if is bored in half hour will never return, etc.

So then, of course, the neverending game design wonderings... xD

 

[Zippity]

I'd get to a point in the development of my game that I should make a choice. A choice about choices.

What do you people think about conversational options like "(Not enought points of certain stat) Approach her"?
And, in second place, the reverse "(Avaible because certain stat reached) Apporach her"

First of all I must say that as I'm asking because It's precisely about what to incorporate on my project,, better clarify that I'm not talking about "Stats that you must grind/paywall"etc, but stats that you develop making other conversational choices (Lewdnes, Ambition, etc). The path that you're taking, in a more thoughtful or random way. (In the example option, it will be Lewdness)

I don't specially like it, more so in the era of games in progress (you never know if it's just a teaser).

cons:
-inmersion breaking
-player may think it's a teaser. Or worst, it's a teaser and player may break his head trying to reach that stats, just to finally find online that the feature is not implemented. (Maybe I only consider this as a con myself because It specially raise my eyebrow)

pros:
-(About the locked) You know there is a option that you "choose" willingly or unwilingly to ignore, but maybe you can return later if its not a unique event). (So you know that the content is there).
-(About the locked) You know that in another run of the game, you could do different things in order to pick that option.
-(About the unlocked) You feel succesfull, as you are able to do that action.


(For my initial research I think the pros wins over the cons, even if I don't totally like the idea)

What do you think about the topic?
PS: I know I'll know what to do with my game, I just wanna hear your opinions

It really boils down to what you want to do, and not what others think you should do, in the long run... But I can see your dilemma...

I've seen some VN/Game where content is locked behind stats and so on, and the developers gave hints that there is content locked behind hidden/unhidden stats, when a choice is presented... If you didn't hint at it, people would be none the wiser, and will really never even know they missed some potential content... In most cases, when people are aware a choice is locked due to improper stats and so on, they are incentivized to work on those stats some more, in order to open up the locked choices... Perhaps, out of a sense of completion, curiosity, or choice preference...

Depending on how it's handled and the game play mechanics you use, I don't see hinting during choice selection as being immersion breaking... Now, if the list of choices showed hints, but disallowed the story to turn around, or there was no choice to go back and work on those stats, but instead you just miss the opportunity, and it never presents itself again, that would probably incite some folks... As they felt like the developer was teasing them with a bone, that they can never get to, without starting over, or going back to a prior save...

It all boils down to your goals as the developer, and how you want the players/readers to perceive the play through... As I said, I've seen some VN/Games show required stats with every choice presented, some others only give the hint through greyed out choices, while some others gave no clues that you just missed a choice due to poor stats, and so on... You will never please everyone, regardless which direction you choose to go... So it's really up to you...

Zip

 

[215303j]

If picking the blue dress on Tuesday means I don't get a blowjob on Thursday, it's hard to make that connection. So if a game features bullshit like this, only a guide will help you.

Sure, but, let's face it, sometimes we (IRL) make choices the effect of which are not always clear or foreseeable.

One person asks if you can give her a ride.
Agree with it and your relationship with that character gets a boost. Logical, right?
Agreeing with it means that you don't have time to do something else which is also important. Also logical but requires a bit more thinking.
But giving her a ride also means that you come home later, meaning that you miss a moderately important event and a scene. This is something that the player can't know, and he may feel blindsided but it is still proper (quite good even) storytelling in my opinion.

The OP is asking: should the game give you a clear hint what the consequences are of a certain choice. In the above example this is quite difficult to implement I think, unless in e.g. a pop-up with some guidance, but that's more immersion-breaking than adding a bit of text to a choice option.

Edit: in the tavern example of @SeventhVixen , since meeting the girl is not crucial to the plot, I would say it is sufficient to drop some small hints in the narrative, like "man, I could use a beer by now, isn't there a tavern here?" Then the player would be motivated to check it out, to find it closed but with a girl who could provide some amusement.

 

[khumak]

I'd get to a point in the development of my game that I should make a choice. A choice about choices.

What do you people think about conversational options like "(Not enought points of certain stat) Approach her"?
And, in second place, the reverse "(Avaible because certain stat reached) Apporach her"

First of all I must say that as I'm asking because It's precisely about what to incorporate on my project,, better clarify that I'm not talking about "Stats that you must grind/paywall"etc, but stats that you develop making other conversational choices (Lewdnes, Ambition, etc). The path that you're taking, in a more thoughtful or random way. (In the example option, it will be Lewdness)

I don't specially like it, more so in the era of games in progress (you never know if it's just a teaser).

cons:
-inmersion breaking
-player may think it's a teaser. Or worst, it's a teaser and player may break his head trying to reach that stats, just to finally find online that the feature is not implemented. (Maybe I only consider this as a con myself because It specially raise my eyebrow)

pros:
-(About the locked) You know there is a option that you "choose" willingly or unwilingly to ignore, but maybe you can return later if its not a unique event). (So you know that the content is there).
-(About the locked) You know that in another run of the game, you could do different things in order to pick that option.
-(About the unlocked) You feel succesfull, as you are able to do that action.


(For my initial research I think the pros wins over the cons, even if I don't totally like the idea)

What do you think about the topic?
PS: I know I'll know what to do with my game, I just wanna hear your opinions

So you're basically contemplating having choices that are "greyed out" unless you have a high enough score of some sort rather than only making the choices that they can actually pick visible? I've played games that do that but I can't really think of a reason to do it other than as a way to let the player know that there is a different path they're missing on their current playthrough.

Personally, I think a better way to achieve that sort of goal would be to have something like an achievement system that is persistent across multiple playthroughs. So a player scrolling through the list of achievements sees images representing the different scenes they have seen and a blank box or maybe some greyed out image representing a scene that they haven't encountered yet. That way they can go through and see that ok I've seen 80% of all the scenes, but am still missing 20% of them and then they can try and figure out how to get the ones they're missing. Ideally you would want to have some sort of a hint available there for them so it wouldn't be necessary to dig through a walkthrough to find it.

I also like the idea of having content for your current playthrough unlocked by an achievement in a previous playthrough.

 

[GuyFreely]

I personally think that some of this approaches hidden content levels. If the player can just miss it by not being in the right place at the right time, then what purpose does it serve? Sure, life can be about coincidences and missed opportunities. From a storytelling standpoint in a game with player interaction, how are they meant to parse this? Dumb luck? Brute force? Reading a guide? I mean if the entire premise of your game is about being in the right place at the right time and every playthrough is different, then it might be fine. If it's more "if you know the secret steps, you can fuck this character" then I'm less on board.

Some games have little inconsequential pixel hunt elements with very minor secrets, etc. I don't begrudge a bit of that, but I still don't love it. From a creator's perspective, I'm making content for people to experience. If they don't see some of it, I'd rather it be based on a choice they consciously made rather than chance. Maybe I'm in the minority on this, I don't know.

 

[SeventhVixen]

Personally, I think a better way to achieve that sort of goal would be to have something like an achievement system that is persistent across multiple playthroughs. So a player scrolling through the list of achievements sees images representing the different scenes they have seen and a blank box or maybe some greyed out image representing a scene that they haven't encountered yet. That way they can go through and see that ok I've seen 80% of all the scenes, but am still missing 20% of them and then they can try and figure out how to get the ones they're missing. Ideally you would want to have some sort of a hint available there for them so it wouldn't be necessary to dig through a walkthrough to find it.

You're right. I already have a persistant gallery/unlockables section across playthroughs so just a thumbnail of the girl will fix the problem of player not knowing if there's content about X. So that problem is solved that way.

I didn't thought about it because I've not added the unlockables in question yet.

I personally think that some of this approaches hidden content levels. If the player can just miss it by not being in the right place at the right time, then what purpose does it serve? Sure, life can be about coincidences and missed opportunities. From a storytelling standpoint in a game with player interaction, how are they meant to parse this? Dumb luck? Brute force? Reading a guide? I mean if the entire premise of your game is about being in the right place at the right time and every playthrough is different, then it might be fine. If it's more "if you know the secret steps, you can fuck this character" then I'm less on board.

Some games have little inconsequential pixel hunt elements with very minor secrets, etc. I don't begrudge a bit of that, but I still don't love it. From a creator's perspective, I'm making content for people to experience. If they don't see some of it, I'd rather it be based on a choice they consciously made rather than chance. Maybe I'm in the minority on this, I don't know.

You're right that a game cannot just appear random, my efforts will go in that direction, and I'm not implimenting any kind of NRG. Also no secret steps, I hope I'm working in a way where everything is quite clear. Tavern girl example, well, may sound "correct place correct time" but it's quite basic when explained; While tavern is open all nights, Tavern is closed when the boss of the tavern, another woman, is out of the tavern during the day. that woman, albeit not the only one, it's one of the paths to solve towns main puzzle. Player is recommended to explore all ways to solve a "town puzzle", but may do as he wants (find the cheapest way that may lock another town solution, or try to do the first way he finds. He can also explore more towns before solving one and try broader solutions in order to search for his own best personal solution).

So when Boss tavern is in market or townhall, is not in the tavern. Then in the tavern is the girl that say you the tavern is closed. So its no random reason why sometimes you find it yourself alone with the girl in the tavern during day, but a logic reason. (let's say one of every each days, the girl is alone in the tavern). So it's just a if she's not here now she's tomorrow.
It's a freeroam/graphic adventure, not a VN with random elements.

Anyway, this in an example of how I'm building it; That you can play it trying to find to all, or ignoring petty stuff and go thru main story (Or first play time try to find all, speed-thru in additionals playthroughts). This is what I'm trying to achieve in how I'm scripting it. And as I'm aware all content cannot be accessed in only one playthru because different paths, and I know a player that like the game while play it again to search other paths, I'm trying to find the best way to "hint" where you, in a different path, or later in game, you could go, in order to not have to do extra research of the same things you researched before, but you kinda can remember what you can't do in the past playthru.

You can lock off the girl in a playthru if you try to advance on her continuisly without her consent? Yes... but well, it's your decision as a player... I just cannot program enough unique events to try to bring up her humor again if player just decide to spent 20 minutes of his life trying to beign a perv on her and see its relationship droping to -100, trying to get an unexpected result repeating the same action. (or well, Maybe I'll just had to put a repeteable event for that, but I'm trying not to put repeteable events on game, beyond sex).

Anyway, because of the broad aspect of the game regardless optional decisions, there is content that you'll miss out for sure if you try to speedrun it, but as the gamedev is my job that players that don't try to speedrun the game will find most of the content, or at least the content they don't gate themselves off by aware choices. (It's a hard job of course, I'm on it -_-)


But I guess...... "Most" content awareness can be just fixed by the persistant gallery section.....

 

[anne O'nymous]

Namely, the player knows when they are making a decision, what that decision means to the story. [...] If picking the blue dress on Tuesday means I don't get a blowjob on Thursday, it's hard to make that connection.

I didn't really knew what to think about the question before reading this.

I'm not a fan of the "not enough points" thing, but there's times where it can be a help for the player. There's four possibilities :

1. At some point there's an obvious alternate route, whatever the choice made, the player know that he will miss part of the content ;
2. The game offer the possibility to pursue a route or not ;
3. At some point there's a subtle choice that can open more content, but the player will know it only if he make the right choice ;
4. At some points there's a shortcut if you have played well enough, like in Mother Seduction by example.

In the first case and second case, it doesn't matter that the game show that there's other options available. The player is aware that he missed something and if he want to show it, he'll replay the game. In the fourth case, those choice don't really change the game and there's no content effectively hidden behind them, so there's no need to tell the player that they exist. But in the third case, the player will reach the end of the game, and just pass to something else, totally unaware that he missed, perhaps, a lot of things.
It's in this case, that a greyed choice can be handy. It tell the player that the game have more content that what he actually see, and can worth being played again. But honestly I'm not fan of the way the problem is presented. A "not enough point for this" tend to break the possible immersion and also spoiling the game. What is, at least for me, a better approach is a greyed "********" option. The player will know that there's something missing, but he'll have to replay the game to know what it is. If effectively this apply only to the third case above, then it will worth the replay, but if it also apply to the fourth case, then be ready to hear a lot of complain coming from people who felt betrayed.

 

[slider]

If the unselectable options are plot related (the event is not yet possible or it's incompatible storywise with past choices) I would prefer not seeing the option at all to avoid spoilering too much. On the other hand, if the unselectable options have to do with how I built my character (stats or personality path), then I'd rather see them grayed out. This is because it makes the player more aware of the weight of their choices in character building and shows that the game has more freedom and content than would seem otherwise.

 

[GuyFreely]

There's a difference if a character is somewhere every day and you can interact with them if you choose to. Say the barmaid when the tavern is closed. If this is always sort of around as an avenue to explore, then sure. You made it sound like there was a specific set of circumstances in the early game that even made this option possible. If that's the case, my only hope is that it makes sense to the player. I was more worried about the blink and you'll miss it scenarios that are sometimes in games. If you go to the park at midnight on day two, there's a special event. If you don't, it never happens. I don't understand events like that.

I do agree that greyed out options make the most sense when they are related to stats. You can't break the door down because you don't have the strength. You can't make the jump because you don't have the agility. You can't go streaking because you don't have enough lewdness. If that's the style of game you are making, then it can make sense to let the player know the possibility space. It's a more "gamey" experience in the first place so it's not that immersion breaking. If a player has made a story choice, then showing the possibility if they had made a different choice makes less sense. Theoretically, they made the choice they wanted to make and wanted to see where that went. So if it's a more narrative experience, then exposing the game mechanics can take a player out of the story.

 

[Winterfire]

*There is too much to read, I am lazy so I'll give my reply not knowing whatever someone already suggested this or not*

Rather than locking the option out, do something like old RPGs or even recent ones by bethesda... If your score is low, have a % of failure or success, pre-save that roll so save/load until a favorable result appears will not be an option.
If your stat goes beyond the required amount, you can simply have it to be always successful.