Alternatives to Daz3d

[Deleted member 1121028]

You're comparing a basic test render lit with a Nishita HDRI to a scene with a moody lighting setup and I assume postwork.

Okay in a less trolly manner

It's a ~15min close up quickly made few day ago, but it shows few things imo : a dual lobe layer (as opposed to a simple gloss layer), a correct SSS with high translucency and a top coat (above all layer). 3 things you need to reproduce in order to compete with Iray basic skin setting. Of course you can add more layers, but those 3 are the pillar of any (good) Iray skin imho.

While Cycle definitely has everything in the bag (or can trick it), it's better said than done. SSS part is tricky part since both engines don't use same volumetric formula. But overall it's more work than people are willing to admit, hence the masochist hyperbole (and overall subpar results).

 

[MidnightArrow]

Okay in a less trolly manner

It's a ~15min close up quickly made few day ago, but it shows few things imo : a dual lobe layer (as opposed to a simple gloss layer), a correct SSS with high translucency and a top coat (above all layer). 3 things you need to reproduce in order to compete with Iray basic skin setting. Of course you can add more layers, but those 3 are the pillar of any (good) Iray skin imho.

While Cycle definitely has everything in the bag (or can trick it), it's better said than done. SSS part is tricky part since both engines don't use same volumetric formula. But overall it's more work than people are willing to admit, hence the masochist hyperbole (and overall subpar results).

Hmm, I'm not really very proficient with skin shaders in general so I'll take your word for the complexity.

But aside from the relative merits of Iray vs. Cycles Blender has so many other features that it outclasses Daz Studio. As I mentioned posing/IK is so much easier and less laggy, you can use proportional editing and sculpting to quickly fix poke-through instead of borderline-worthless stuff like DFormers or Mesh Grabber (I can tell the maker of Mesh Grabber put a lot of effort into it but it's still hobbled by Daz's nonexistent mesh manipulation--it doesn't even have an X-Ray view mode to pick faces behind other faces), it has multiple physics sims instead of just a cloth sim put in only to sell more clothes, the animation timeline is so much more efficient/feature-rich, etc.

Iray may theoretically look better out of the box but actually using Blender is much better. I think I'd be okay with sacrificing a bit of rendering quality for something that I have fun making stuff with instead of cursing out every two seconds.

Which incidentally was exactly what the long-ago OP was looking for in their first post.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Blender so great we crawl under release(s).
Wait a minute.


Give me a break(s) pls.

 

[MidnightArrow]

I don't speak meme.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

I don't speak meme.

Sorry sir.

In my abrasive stubborness, could you link your most three liked blender-made VN ?
Could you pull exactly why it's so great?

Thank you. The retarted pleb.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Looks like wifi was cut.

sad tho.

 

[MidnightArrow]

I would ask what other people making VNs has to do with the fact that I use both programs and I know which one is better at posing, but I'm washing my hands of your obvious trollin'. Have a nice day.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Oh please send me a copy champ' lmao.

 

[PlayfulUK]

I follow Nyl's Patreon. He uses Blender. Not sure which renderer (I should ask) but his lighting and mats look pretty amazing.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Imagine giving a single fuck about blender (and paying money for that).

 

[PlayfulUK]

You're a pretty obnoxious little prick aren't you.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

How much you're in lmao ?

 

[Domiek]

There's some obnoxious blender fanboys out there but also some obnoxious blender haters as well. If only we could look at software objectively rather than go about it in a tribal way.

Iray is the obvious choice if you're using Daz assets as they are created to look good in Iray by default. Official Daz 8.1 chars have started using a PBR approach which makes using chars in other render engines easier, but there's still a learning curve to make them look good.

It's not even about Daz vs Blender, as using Daz assets in any other render engine will look terrible in comparison out of the box.

If you're thinking of using another software to take advantage of areas that Daz is lacking, be aware that you will also have to take some time to learn how to edit and utilize Daz textures and build your own skin shader. This may not be worth the time invested depending on what you're trying to accomplish.

Auto-converting materials from Daz Iray to another engine will look like poop by default.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

ayy, you're not wrong tho.
Guess good troll has to put an end somewhere.

 

[Domiek]

Yeah, just to give an example of how terrible any sort of auto convert is. This is using Diffeo which does a great job at transferring char mesh/rigging/etc, but even with a lot of effort from the team to try and make it look similar to Daz in Cycles, it's a total nightmare from hell.



Here's a Daz char that I built a skin shader for and created new PBR textures with substance painter by using the base color map that it came with.



It's not hyper realistic nor mimicking Daz, but it's something I'm currently satisfied with. Unless you're planning on getting heavily involved in simulations, animations, etc, probably no reason to leave Daz.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Yeah, just to give an example of how terrible any sort of auto convert is. This is using Diffeo which does a great job at transferring char mesh/rigging/etc, but even with a lot of effort from the team to try and make it look similar to Daz in Cycles, it's a total nightmare from hell.

View attachment 1422065

Here's a Daz char that I built a skin shader for and created new PBR textures with substance painter by using the base color map that it came with.

View attachment 1422066

It's not hyper realistic nor mimicking Daz, but it's something I'm currently satisfied with. Unless you're planning on getting heavily involved in simulations, animations, etc, probably no reason to leave Daz.

Just did a quick test with Babina 8 (not a bad skin), the lastest dev version of

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and lastest Blender 3.0 alpha (the one who have

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I believe). Just using "Easy Import Daz" (was curious since I didn't remember it was there). Only thing I did was to mimic Iray max paths lenght, -1 is around ~21 (or 24?) bounces iirc.




Default setting nodes after import:



There is few minor problems (teeth/gum, eyes, bit strong SSS) but so far it's a solid base imo. Re-creation of dual lobe, top coat & translucency is neat. Not really 1:1 but quite lot of progress were made in a year or 2.

 

[Losersriot]

 

[Domiek]

Just did a quick test with Babina 8 (not a bad skin), the lastest dev version of

You must be registered to see the links

and lastest Blender 3.0 alpha (the one who have

You must be registered to see the links

I believe). Just using "Easy Import Daz" (was curious since I didn't remember it was there). Only thing I did was to mimic Iray max paths lenght, -1 is around ~21 (or 24?) bounces iirc.


View attachment 1427306

Default setting nodes after import:

View attachment 1427317

There is few minor problems (teeth/gum, eyes, bit strong SSS) but so far it's a solid base imo. Re-creation of dual lobe, top coat & translucency is neat. Not really 1:1 but quite lot of progress were made in a year or 2.

Thomas and the core group of Diffeo volunteers have really made some incredible progress, especially with translating Daz rigs and incorporating morphs, expressions, jcms, pose library.

The default skin conversion is totally acceptable when it comes to using Daz Official figures. My hunch is that Daz is at least consistent with their texture maps. Auto converting other vendors is a total gamble especially since roughness/spec/gloss seems to be interchangeable depending on the vendor. I've had auto converted chars come out several shades darker or lighter. Vicky 8.1 comes out looking pretty great too.

The biggest issue however is the performance of this shader. They're trying to replicate Daz Iray in Blender, resulting in performance inefficient setups with the biggest offender being that volume node. It's generally significantly slower to render than a proper PBR shader. I can't really complain though as Diffeo enables people to very easily transition to Blender, even better than the official bridge.

Thomas even built a BVH retargeter which I think should allow the transfer of animations back to Daz, but I haven't tested to confirm this.

 

[KiaAzad]

The reason daz is popular is because it gives you all of the tools you need to produce the end result (that is the render) in the same place.
Even though it's tools are subpar , no other software gives you a more straight forward path from nothing to result.
Most programs expect the users to know where to get their models, how to import every format, how to create morphs that often are not included, sometimes rig and texture, etc...
All of those steps are standing in the way of the creator that just wants to create the asset they need for their games. And daz is the fastest train to get there.

 

[caLTD]

Porn is sticky thing. No body want to mess with it. Perhaps with enough cash somebody may try to mess with Metahumans. Other than that we have to stick with DAZ.