Ren'Py Unreal Engine An efficient workflow for porn game development ?

[Zhoukwang]

Hi guys i'm about to start the journey today, but i dont know where should i start, i'm looking for the most efficient workflow

I want to make UE5 game (with actual gameplay) with daz3d models in ue5 animation/environnement.


But i dont know where to start, should i write the story first then go mess with 3d model then after start coding ? Can you share me the details for Daz3d to UE5 workflow ?


If i want to make a renpy game VN with ue5 animations and environment, what is the workflow here ? Does it change from the previous one

Thanks guys

Btw i'm a developper (as job), have small basics in 3d and have been writing small novels as hobby if that can help for your anwers !

 

[Alcahest]

There's no single answer since it depends on you and how you like to do things. I suggest you make a small project to learn what works for you, how you want to do it, before starting on your bigger game.

 

[DreamBig Games]

Start with the Unnreal Engine part first.

Import 2-3 chracters
Set your actors ( changing clothes, run Anim BP's, change morphs, etc ) like you would need them in the final product.
Set up your enviroments ( map, buildings, interactions ( grab bucket, shoot at something, etc ).
Set up your Quests/ story drivers.
Import/ create aniamtions.

IF you manage to overcome all that, and you can do it in a performance efficient way ( so the game could be played on a 3060 or above GPU ), then start working on the actual story.

Else, you just might write a story and never bring it to life. Fuck knows I've done that before ))

 

[anne O'nymous]

IF you manage to overcome all that, and you can do it in a performance efficient way ( so the game could be played on a 3060 or above GPU ), then start working on the actual story.

Er... If the game need a 3060 or above, he'll not have many players. Even aiming for a 20 series would remove around half the possible player base.

But I agree for the rest. There's no need to write the story until he know that he can deal with Unreal, code his game, and achieve to downgrade the polygon number low enough for the game to be playable by a majority.

Oh, and of course, there's the license issue. He'll need the interactive one to do that, what will significantly increase the cost.

 

[Zhoukwang]

There's no single answer since it depends on you and how you like to do things. I suggest you make a small project to learn what works for you, how you want to do it, before starting on your bigger game.

Yeah your right i'll start by small project thx !

Start with the Unnreal Engine part first.

Import 2-3 chracters
Set your actors ( changing clothes, run Anim BP's, change morphs, etc ) like you would need them in the final product.
Set up your enviroments ( map, buildings, interactions ( grab bucket, shoot at something, etc ).
Set up your Quests/ story drivers.
Import/ create aniamtions.

IF you manage to overcome all that, and you can do it in a performance efficient way ( so the game could be played on a 3060 or above GPU ), then start working on the actual story.

Else, you just might write a story and never bring it to life. Fuck knows I've done that before ))

Thanks ! Btw do you think making a game with ue5 compared to renpy is risky since the engine/possibilities are bigger you can lost yourself and drop a mid game ?

 

[Zhoukwang]

Er... If the game need a 3060 or above, he'll not have many players. Even aiming for a 20 series would remove around half the possible player base.

But I agree for the rest. There's no need to write the story until he know that he can deal with Unreal, code his game, and achieve to downgrade the polygon number low enough for the game to be playable by a majority.

Oh, and of course, there's the license issue. He'll need the interactive one to do that, what will significantly increase the cost.

What do you mean by interactive licence ?

EDIT : nvm i thought you were talking about ue5 but no its daz3d

 

[anne O'nymous]

What do you mean by interactive licence ?

I mean

You must be registered to see the links

.

The regular license only apply to rendered images and videos. But using Daz models with Unreal is something else.
Unless you are using Unreal as render engine, and then use the generated image with another game engine, you are using the models in an "interactive" way. Even if it's to have sill images displayed on screen, those images are done in real time, and therefore "interactive" ; they respond to the context. And to legally use the Daz assets that way, you need to pay the US$ 50 extra cost for the interactive license ; and to pay it for every single assets.

 

[Zhoukwang]

I mean

You must be registered to see the links

.

The regular license only apply to rendered images and videos. But using Daz models with Unreal is something else.
Unless you are using Unreal as render engine, and then use the generated image with another game engine, you are using the models in an "interactive" way. Even if it's to have sill images displayed on screen, those images are done in real time, and therefore "interactive" ; they respond to the context. And to legally use the Daz assets that way, you need to pay the US$ 50 extra cost for the interactive license ; and to pay it for every single assets.

Thanks for the explanation, so with renpy there is no limitation i wont have to pay extra buck for nothing right since its static and not rendered in real time ?

But i guess i'll have to maybe buy 2-3 interactive licence for characters and if the game makes money i'll expand

Is this the reason why there is so less ue5 games compared to renpy ? And is there a shady workaround (that keep it legal) with this interactive license and ue5 ?


Maybe if i try to reproduce the 3d model with another tool and make it slightly different when i'm out of sex scene, maybe that works ? But its seems fucking tedious

 

[anne O'nymous]

Thanks for the explanation, so with renpy there is no limitation i wont have to pay extra buck for nothing right since its static and not rendered in real time ?

Yes.

But i guess i'll have to maybe buy 2-3 interactive licence for characters and if the game makes money i'll expand

I'm pretty sure that you didn't intend to have a game with naked, genitalia deprived, characters over a black screen, what mean that 2-3 interactive licenses will be far to be enough.
As I explicitly said, it apply to every single assets. For a really basic game, between the models, the hairs, the genitalia, the locations, the clothing, the poses, the lights and the morphs, you need at least a hundred assets. What mean US$ 5,000 just for their interactive licenses.
Oh, and not all creators allow their assets to be used interactively. If there isn't the possibility to pay for the interactive license, it doesn't mean that it's free, it mean that it's forbidden.

But as said by DreamBig Games, then me, so far the question isn't here. Before you have to wonder if you can afford the interactive licenses, you have to know if you can use those assets with Unreal.
Genesis 8 have apparently around 19K vertexes, so around 15K polygons, against around 25K for Genesis 9, so 20K polygons. This while Unity recommend between 1.5K and 4K polygons, for a game that would be playable with an average computer ; what meant that Unreal can probably goes up to 6K or 7K.
side note: I'm talking here about real time effectively interactive characters. None interactive cut scenes can obviously goes higher, especially if they are partly pre-computed.
This mean that even by using Genesis 8, you'll have first to know how to divide by at least two the number of polygons if you want your game to be playable on something else than the last gen top grade computer. So, first find if you can do this. It's only after, and only if you can do this, that you can starts bothering about the cost issue.

And is there a shady workaround (that keep it legal) with this interactive license and ue5 ?

Yes, not using Daz assets...

Maybe if i try to reproduce the 3d model with another tool and make it slightly different when i'm out of sex scene, maybe that works ?

Are you aware of the word "counterfeiting" ?

But anyway this is more a discussion for future readers than an immediate issue.

I say this respectfully as possible, and mean nothing bad by saying it** but if you knew what you are talking about, you wouldn't have wrote this last question.
Either you would know how to do 3D modeling and texturing, and you would just decide to make your own assets, or you would know that it's out of your reach, and therefore wouldn't have wondered if there's a way to goes for counterfeiting. But in both case, if you knew what 3D means and imply, you wouldn't have asked this last question.



** It's holiday season, I try to be extra nice... but I need to steals other's phrasing for that... Sorry MissFortune.

 

[DreamBig Games]

Er... If the game need a 3060 or above, he'll not have many players. Even aiming for a 20 series would remove around half the possible player base.

But I agree for the rest. There's no need to write the story until he know that he can deal with Unreal, code his game, and achieve to downgrade the polygon number low enough for the game to be playable by a majority.

Oh, and of course, there's the license issue. He'll need the interactive one to do that, what will significantly increase the cost.

To be fair, we targeted 3060 with Make Her Cum, and got plenty of sales...
Of course, you can still play it on lower GPU ( heck, you can play it on Steam Deck ), but at lower FPS and reduce some settings.

 

[DreamBig Games]

Yeah your right i'll start by small project thx !





Thanks ! Btw do you think making a game with ue5 compared to renpy is risky since the engine/possibilities are bigger you can lost yourself and drop a mid game ?

Yeah... but, feature creep ( especially if you are a programmer, as you will always think about new code ), is a posibilty regarding of the engine...
It's up to you to stay focused on the job at hand and limit your scope.

 

[DreamBig Games]

As I explicitly said, it apply to every single assets. For a really basic game, between the models, the hairs, the genitalia, the locations, the clothing, the poses, the lights and the morphs, you need at least a hundred assets. What mean US$ 5,000 just for their interactive licenses.

You can buy Enviroments from Epic market place. Much cheaper and already game-ready.
As for lights, poses, again, no need to buy anything. You can pose in Unreal, and you do the light in Unreal also.

With

You must be registered to see the links

we spent over 2K in licences, but, we timed the buying of assets only when there where major sales, especially on the 3D licenses of each product. This meant we bought licenses either months before we put the asssets in the game, or shortly after pushing the assets in an update on Steam.

But, yeah, 3D games are not cheap to make.
Also, with Ren'Py games, no one really checks dev's for licenses ( as far as I heard ), but with 3D, we got checked on 2 occasions. Once by Daz and once by a Daz seller.

 

[Zhoukwang]

Yes.




I'm pretty sure that you didn't intend to have a game with naked, genitalia deprived, characters over a black screen, what mean that 2-3 interactive licenses will be far to be enough.
As I explicitly said, it apply to every single assets. For a really basic game, between the models, the hairs, the genitalia, the locations, the clothing, the poses, the lights and the morphs, you need at least a hundred assets. What mean US$ 5,000 just for their interactive licenses.
Oh, and not all creators allow their assets to be used interactively. If there isn't the possibility to pay for the interactive license, it doesn't mean that it's free, it mean that it's forbidden.

But as said by DreamBig Games, then me, so far the question isn't here. Before you have to wonder if you can afford the interactive licenses, you have to know if you can use those assets with Unreal.
Genesis 8 have apparently around 19K vertexes, so around 15K polygons, against around 25K for Genesis 9, so 20K polygons. This while Unity recommend between 1.5K and 4K polygons, for a game that would be playable with an average computer ; what meant that Unreal can probably goes up to 6K or 7K.
side note: I'm talking here about real time effectively interactive characters. None interactive cut scenes can obviously goes higher, especially if they are partly pre-computed.
This mean that even by using Genesis 8, you'll have first to know how to divide by at least two the number of polygons if you want your game to be playable on something else than the last gen top grade computer. So, first find if you can do this. It's only after, and only if you can do this, that you can starts bothering about the cost issue.




Yes, not using Daz assets...




Are you aware of the word "counterfeiting" ?

But anyway this is more a discussion for future readers than an immediate issue.

I say this respectfully as possible, and mean nothing bad by saying it** but if you knew what you are talking about, you wouldn't have wrote this last question.
Either you would know how to do 3D modeling and texturing, and you would just decide to make your own assets, or you would know that it's out of your reach, and therefore wouldn't have wondered if there's a way to goes for counterfeiting. But in both case, if you knew what 3D means and imply, you wouldn't have asked this last question.



** It's holiday season, I try to be extra nice... but I need to steals other's phrasing for that... Sorry MissFortune.

Well i dont know much about 3D and what it implies in a profesionnal/commercial use , so yeah its true i forgot about counterfeiting, i failed to explain myself correctly or maybe its counterfeit again but i was planning to do a game with isometric view (environment made in ue5, using the daz3d model only for the actual character models in rendered scenes) , have 3D npc models "minified/less details" like in rpg maker porn games when playing/exploring out of the sex scenes but keeping a "ressemblance" with the actual daz 3d to make it recognizable, i wonder if that counts for counterfeit, if yes i'll stick myself to renpy then or find a viable solution.

But no problem you werent rude or disrespectful, thanks for you answer, really i mean it !

 

[Aridecan]

Right now, according to the Steam Hardware Survey, the most popular card is the 3060. The third is the 1060. If you take the numbers and sort them to the 3060 power and higher, and lower, it's around 41%/59% between as good as or better than the 3060, and 59% worse off. I just did a quick sort by the model numbers. The 1060 is trending downwards (for this month). The 2060 is the 5th most popular GPU.

You also have to take into account when you'll be releasing the game, and what you think is going to be a good GPU to target at the low end then. The 40xx cards will probably be phased out for the 50xx gpus next year, or 2025. The 1060 was released in 2016, so it's a 7-year-old GPU. If you're planning on releasing in 5 years, then that card will be 12 years old, and there might not be too many left, and you've aimed too low. In 5 years, the 60xx gpus will probably be available, and the 20xx gpus will be on the downwards. You might just see the 3060 as a good GPU to target as your minimum requirement.

If you're releasing today, the 1060 is a good target for the low end, and the 3060 is your recommended spec. But if you're just starting out with UE5 today, you're probably looking at 5 years for your completed project.

BTW starting with UE5 I'm just putting together a set of videos on how to add some basic (and free) DevOps into a solo UE5 project. How/why to use revision control, how to set up Jenkins on an old machine, and how to make a simple DLC so you can split a project between SFW and NSFW versions. I just have to edit the videos.

I have also been researching the triangle count to figure out a good spot to have the characters. The G8F model I have imported into blender is around 37k triangles, with geografts merged in. It's hard to find a good source on the number, I've seen people say 80k is good for a UE5 model. I've also seen others say as low as 10k for the main character.

For a good place to start. Always write down your scope. And keep to your scope. For now you're looking at your first playable. So that means you want to define what type of game you want (1st person, 3rd person). And then pick a few of the technologies you want to prove you can work with. Like building your Daz3d->UE5 pipeline. Animating those characters (retargeting the Daz3d Skeleton to UE5 Quinn's Skeleton perhaps). And then hooking the imported mesh to the playable character and running around with them.

I'd suggest the 3-Goal method of iteration. Pick 3 simple to achieve goals (they might not be simple when you try to implement them), and go with it. Prove to yourself that you can work with the technologies. And then pick 3 more goals till you get to something you can say, 'I can work with this'.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Also, with Ren'Py games, no one really checks dev's for licenses ( as far as I heard ), but with 3D, we got checked on 2 occasions. Once by Daz and once by a Daz seller.

Your games have the assets embedded, it's (relatively speaking) easy to prove that you are using them. But when it come to rendered images/videos, go try to explain a judge that yes, despite the texture having been changed, and the morphs applied (when it's a character) or the render showing only a small part of it (for the locations), it's really your asset on that picture.
I'm sure they care as much when it's renders, but they know that wining the case is just throwing a coin and praying. And the instant they loose, it would be seen as a big "pirate as you want, we can do nothing against you". Something worse than the current "we say nothing... so far".

 

[Count Morado]

Ya'all are putting the cart in front of the horse.

The first thing the would-be developer should do is write a spec script, at the minimum - and proceeding with information on inciting incident, plot points, tension, conflict, resolution, goals, genres expected, key scenes/interactions, relationships, etc --- really they should follow this advice:

No, you're starting this wrong. You do not ask other people what engine you should use, you should find the answer yourself after writing a Game Design Document which is the first step in game making.
If you have never written one, or do not know what that is, google it. There are templates, too. There's no right way of making one, so feel free to customize it to your needs, but it is essential because it gives you a whole overview of your whole project, and that's when you'll know what engine it needs (also based on your knowledge, and willingness to learn).

You may find out after proper preparation and planning that you shouldn't use UE5 or Daz3D, but some other engine and tools.

You pick your tools for the plan, you don't pick your tools first and then configure your plan around that.

 

[Winterfire]

Can't believe no one ever mentions this, but you start with a Game Design Document (Google for templates or to learn what that is), templates are just that... Obviously fit it to your needs, it can even be a page long as long as it gives a complete overview of your project, that's what it is for.

If you have to ask "what engine should I use to make game" you've already failed before beginning.

First have a clear game in mind (and paper), then ask what are the best options to bring said game to reality.
There are General Purpose Game Engines, but there are specific ones as well. In this day and age, with so many options, you want to choose the engine that most fits your project so you can cut off a big chunk of the work, especially if it is your first project.
If you are a developer, choosing an engine that uses your same language should also be a priority.

And please, keep it simple if it is your first project. The more complex your idea is, the more likely it is for you to fail.
Even if something looks simple enough in your mind, actually break it down to its single core elements, and you will notice that even the most simple things can actually be a bitch to make.

 

[Count Morado]

Can't believe no one ever mentions this, but you start with a Game Design Document (Google for templates or to learn what that is), templates are just that... Obviously fit it to your needs, it can even be a page long as long as it gives a complete overview of your project, that's what it is for.

If you have to ask "what engine should I use to make game" you've already failed before beginning.

First have a clear game in mind (and paper), then ask what are the best options to bring said game to reality.
There are General Purpose Game Engines, but there are specific ones as well. In this day and age, with so many options, you want to choose the engine that most fits your project so you can cut off a big chunk of the work, especially if it is your first project.
If you are a developer, choosing an engine that uses your same language should also be a priority.

And please, keep it simple if it is your first project. The more complex your idea is, the more likely it is for you to fail.
Even if something looks simple enough in your mind, actually break it down to its single core elements, and you will notice that even the most simple things can actually be a bitch to make.

Beat you to it by 1 minute... and using your own words. BWAHAHAHA

 

[Zhoukwang]

Ya'all are putting the cart in front of the horse.

The first thing the would-be developer should do is write a spec script, at the minimum - and proceeding with information on inciting incident, plot points, tension, conflict, resolution, goals, genres expected, key scenes/interactions, relationships, etc --- really they should follow this advice:

You may find out after proper preparation and planning that you shouldn't use UE5 or Daz3D, but some other engine and tools.

You pick your tools for the plan, you don't pick your tools first and then configure your plan around that.

Thanks mate for your answer, i'll follow that

Can't believe no one ever mentions this, but you start with a Game Design Document (Google for templates or to learn what that is), templates are just that... Obviously fit it to your needs, it can even be a page long as long as it gives a complete overview of your project, that's what it is for.

If you have to ask "what engine should I use to make game" you've already failed before beginning.

First have a clear game in mind (and paper), then ask what are the best options to bring said game to reality.
There are General Purpose Game Engines, but there are specific ones as well. In this day and age, with so many options, you want to choose the engine that most fits your project so you can cut off a big chunk of the work, especially if it is your first project.
If you are a developer, choosing an engine that uses your same language should also be a priority.

And please, keep it simple if it is your first project. The more complex your idea is, the more likely it is for you to fail.
Even if something looks simple enough in your mind, actually break it down to its single core elements, and you will notice that even the most simple things can actually be a bitch to make.

I was going with UE5 because its the only engine with i already created a mini game with it, through tutorials/self learning and its in c++ something that use at job but yeah i get your message, thanks for your time !

 

[Winterfire]

I was going with UE5 because its the only engine with i already created a mini game with it, through tutorials/self learning and its in c++ something that use at job but yeah i get your message, thanks for your time !

Experience with both the engine and the language is definitely a big plus, and since it is a general purpose Engine, you can pretty much make anything in it.
However, you want to avoid reinventing the wheel and waste your time and efforts, if you aim to create a Visual Novel or if a Visual Novel fits better what you have in mind, Ren'Py would still be the best choice since it is really easy to use and learn, and it has everything you need out of the box.

Unfortunately I do not have experience with Unreal Engine, so I can't say for sure how doable it is, but doesn't Unreal Engine have metahumans? You could use that, and even if models aren't fully naked from the get go, you can simply edit them, the penis needs to be an external object anyway.