Ren'Py Unreal Engine An efficient workflow for porn game development ?

[anne O'nymous]

Ya'all are putting the cart in front of the horse.

Can't believe no one ever mentions this, but you start with a Game Design Document [...]

Please, can you read again the reason why we are doing it.

No one said to starts by something else than the main draft of the game, but a real time 3D game and a game based on renders aren't at all the same. Spending time to define a game that will never exist would be useless and frustrating. Therefore, yes, it is answered him to first see if he have the knowledge need for the game as he want it. It's doing otherwise that would be a really bad idea.

You want him to spend millions to build a racing team that would have him as unique pilot, before he even know if he can drive... Where is this a good advice ?

 

[Winterfire]

You want him to spend millions to build a racing team that would have him as unique pilot, before he even know if he can drive... Where is this a good advice ?

Writing a Game Design Document is free, and it is precisely to avoid wasting money and time you write one, for any game, before beginning the actual development.

 

[Count Morado]

Please, can you read again the reason why we are doing it.

No one said to starts by something else than the main draft of the game, but a real time 3D game and a game based on renders aren't at all the same. Spending time to define a game that will never exist would be useless and frustrating. Therefore, yes, it is answered him to first see if he have the knowledge need for the game as he want it. It's doing otherwise that would be a really bad idea.

You want him to spend millions to build a racing team that would have him as unique pilot, before he even know if he can drive... Where is this a good advice ?

I specifically said he shouldn't spend millions to build a racing team (aka - make the plan fit the tools) - which is EXACTLY what this thread started as:

...i dont know where should i start...
I want to make UE5 game (with actual gameplay) with daz3d models in ue5 animation/environnement.
...should i write the story first then go mess with 3d model then after start coding ? Can you share me the details for Daz3d to UE5 workflow ?
If i want to make a renpy game VN with ue5 animations and environment, what is the workflow here ? Does it change from the previous one
...Btw i'm a developper (as job), have small basics in 3d and have been writing small novels as hobby if that can help for your anwers !

His FIRST question was "should I write the story first..." but people latched on to the "then go mess with 3d model then after start coding...":

Start with the Unnreal Engine part first.

There's no need to write the story until he know that he can deal with Unreal

And proceeded from there talking about Daz3D and video cards and interactive licenses etc...
To which the OP responded

Well i dont know much about 3D... but i was planning to do a game with isometric view (environment made in ue5

And then the responses went back to video card discussion.

To answer his first question - he should start writing first.

The first and most important thing about any "good" game experience is the story, the characters and their relationships AND AFTER that comes game engine, art, etc...

If he writes a good game - he doesn't even need to learn UE or 3D modeling... he can use Twine and make a text-based game for his first game project (or any other very basic engine). He can build up on his experience in his hobby of writing. Hell, if he's any good at writing, a well-written text-based game can sell better than plebian Daz3D models awkwardly pasted into a poorly structured UE environment with shitty game mechanics.

So yes, what I am saying is go back to the basics - he needs to know what his game is about. He needs to know story progression. He needs to develop his characters. The tension, the rise, the conflict, the resolution.

 

[anne O'nymous]

His FIRST question was "should I write the story first..." but people latched on to the "then go mess with 3d model then after start coding...":

Okay, so he write the story of a guy wandering on the Mojave desert after a nuclear war. This guy will have to interact with 3 main factions, while trying to survive buy scraping the different place he will explore freely, and fighting the fauna...
Then after having spend one/two months writing that, and being really hipped by that marvelous story he came with, he will discover that he is totally unable to operate Daz 3D models in Unreal. What will happen exactly ?
Despite all the good I think and say about Ren'Py, you can not port FallOut New Vegas to that game engine.

Or, he can dedicate one/two weeks learning the rope about 3D real time. Whatever the result it will not be wasted time, because that knowledge will serve him when he will works on the CGs for his game.
This would let him know if he have the capability to do real time 3D with Unreal, or if it would need years of learning to reach that level and he should be more advised to switch to a more simple approach ; approach that can be Unreal with pre-rendered images.
Then he would works on his story, basing it on the limitation, or absence of limitation, due to the game engine he'll use and the way he'll deal with the visual part...

And this also answer to Winterfire who, this time beat you by few.

 

[Count Morado]

he will discover that he is totally unable to operate Daz 3D models in Unreal. What will happen exactly ?
Despite all the good I think and say about Ren'Py, you can not port FallOut New Vegas to that game engine.

EXACTLY

But if he writes a story at that level of concept then he's got a fucking awesome story that he can put into Twine or other simple engine with text-based game mechanics. And it will sell /be regarded much better than poking around for months in Daz 3D and UE only to realize he can't build his dream and tosses it all out the window because "aw fuck it, I'm no good at this UE/Daz shit, the game would be shit, no matter what I write..."

Or he can then reach out to look for artists/coders to join him with his ALREADY COMPLETED storyline.

He's come to you saying he's learning how to drive and wants to learn in a 2023 Renault Rafale. Do you say - sure go ahead ... or do you point him to the 2014 Citroën C1?

Normally I'd agree with you - but in this case, telling a developer to fuck around with UE and Daz3D before even having any idea of the game he wants to actually develop - with a storyline, plot, characters, relationships, struggles, genres, etc - that's just directing someone to be the exact kind of problematic developer that gets panned all across the boards.

 

[Winterfire]

Okay, so he write the story of a guy wandering on the Mojave desert after a nuclear war. This guy will have to interact with 3 main factions, while trying to survive buy scraping the different place he will explore freely, and fighting the fauna...
Then after having spend one/two months writing that, and being really hipped by that marvelous story he came with, he will discover that he is totally unable to operate Daz 3D models in Unreal. What will happen exactly ?

I never said one cannot play around and learn tools, you just do that before publishing a game.
Besides, in that scenario he can also learn the tools afterwards... GDDs do not expire, I have quite a few sitting around in a folder for years that I have yet to use, but even after you learn the tools, you will constantly improve with experience... With projects taking years, you can notice in everyone's games how they grew from the first parts of a game to the last.

Besides, stories on the specific can be applied anywhere, in any format.
What you are talking about has more to do with Genre and Gameplay (among other things), obviously if he is writing a GDD with certain features in mind, it is expected he knows those tools or knows how to implement them, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense unless he's planning to learn them afterwards.

Or, he can dedicate one/two weeks learning the rope about 3D real time. Whatever the result it will not be wasted time, because that knowledge will serve him when he will works on the CGs for his game.
This would let him know if he have the capability to do real time 3D with Unreal, or if it would need years of learning to reach that level and he should be more advised to switch to a more simple approach ; approach that can be Unreal with pre-rendered images.
Then he would works on his story, basing it on the limitation, or absence of limitation, due to the game engine he'll use and the way he'll deal with the visual part...

And this also answer to Winterfire who, this time beat you by few.

In this thread he's specifically asking about creating a project, of course there's nothing wrong with learning the tools, but if he's publishing that stuff, nothing good will come out of it. It'll be either very long updates (difficulty + learning), very bad stuff that he will need to redo over and over (And players hate that), or he will simply burnout or realize he doesn't want to go down that route, which will result in his first abandoned game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] telling a developer to fuck around with UE and Daz3D [...]

Wait, please, tell me where I said that, because I never said that...

At no time did I said that he have to do "this", but that for his project he will have to do "this". Said otherwise, I didn't gave him an advice, just listing his idea implications.

Well, to be fair I gave an implicit advice: Don't do it.

I never said one cannot play around and learn tools, [...]

Good, because I never said that he should play around and learn tools.

[...] but even after you learn the tools, you will constantly improve with experience... With projects taking years, you can notice in everyone's games how they grew from the first parts of a game to the last.

What is difficult to understand in OP post(s) ?

He's someone who have near to no knowledge regarding 3D, who want to use Daz 3D assets with Unreal... With the years of experience you now have, I don't remember having seen you use 3D assets in your Unity games, not even the one made for Unity, and not even in a static way like in The Twist during its early releases.
And him, with so far less knowledge than you, because he never made a game before, he want to use third party 3D assets, that have a too high polygons count, with the most complicated game engine available for free, for real time 3D...

Don't you see an issue here ? Don't you think that "am I capable to do it" is the first question he should ask himself ?

 

[Count Morado]

Wait, please, tell me where I said that, because I never said that...

Where did you say (quoting me, paraphrasing you)"telling a developer to fuck around with UE and Daz3D before even having any idea of the game he wants to actually develop - with a storyline, plot, characters, relationships, struggles, genres, etc"

Start with the Unnreal Engine part first...

...But I agree for the rest. There's no need to write the story until he know that he can deal with Unreal, code his game, and achieve to downgrade the polygon number low enough for the game to be playable by a majority.

Oh, and of course, there's the license issue. He'll need the interactive one to do that, what will significantly increase the cost.

You've pushed the necessity of the story to the backburner behind dealing with Unreal and even mentioning the licensing issue.

Don't you think that "am I capable to do it" is the first question he should ask himself ?

No.

It appears he has a dream or vision to develop a game. Currently he thinks that he wants to make it in UE and/or Ren'Py with Daz3D models. He does mention

I was going with UE5 because its the only engine with i already created a mini game with it, through tutorials/self learning and its in c++ something that use at job

and

i dont know much about 3D and... i was planning to do a game with isometric view (environment made in ue5, using the daz3d model only for the actual character models in rendered scenes) , have 3D npc models "minified/less details" like in rpg maker porn games when playing/exploring out of the sex scenes but keeping a "ressemblance" with the actual daz 3d to make it recognizable

But he never mentions what he wants the game to be about, the plot, the setting, the number of characters, genre, relationships, conflicts, etc. Nothing.

He's prioritized the TOOLS before the PLAN.

The first question he should ask himself is "do I have a story that needs all this?" or, more basically/specifically, "Do I have a story?"

I could provide (either from myself or employing a tutor) the training necessary for (nearly) any person to learn how to code and use Daz 3D. But what the fuck good is that if the story is:

​

Mom, I want to fuck you​

Yes son, fuck me.​

Oh oh oh​

You're peepee in my woohoo feels good, meng.​

-=The End=-​

or better yet... 14 posts in Off-topic asking "what do you want to see in my game?" "should I put NTR?" "what do you think of futa?" "should I include sound?" "why isn't my game getting any attention?"

And then, like Winterfire aptly mentions.... his first game becomes his first abandoned game because he had no plan or any knowledge or commitment of his story to begin with?

I can take any good story provided and either build it up or simplify it based upon my ability to code/design to make it fit what I need done and still meet my overall goal. However, even with the best tools and training, without a plan and story, it's all just money/time down the drain -- all glitz no guts.

Important questions:
Why do you want to develop THIS game?
Are you making the perfect game you have always wanted but no one has made?
What makes your game idea special?
Do you have a story to tell?

Not:
Do I know how to use Unreal and Daz3D? (because there are many game engines and art/design options out there beyond those two)

Good questions after knowing the story (either through spec script or GDD):
Which game engine would be the best option?
Which art/design option is best?
Now that I have my story and it seems I am not fully capable in the art/design or coding area - should I reach out to see if I can bring others with me as lead developer?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Where did you say (quoting me, paraphrasing you)"telling a developer to fuck around with UE and Daz3D before even having any idea of the game he wants to actually develop - with a storyline, plot, characters, relationships, struggles, genres, etc"

You put the emphasis yourself... "until he know that he can deal with Unreal"...

Implied "the way he want to deal with it".

 

[Count Morado]

You put the emphasis yourself... "until he know that he can deal with Unreal"...

Implied "the way he want to deal with it".

OMG, AON... Really?

Just because he thinks he wants to deal with it that way doesn't mean he should, and you know it. That's like telling a 3rd chair high school violinist that "sure, you can rent Carnegie Hall to solo a command performance - it's what you want" without sitting him down and telling him the way to Carnegie Hall is practice, practice, practice.

I think you've dug your heels in on a bad take. I'm done with this discussion. I'm moving on.

 

[DreamBig Games]

Normally I'd agree with you - but in this case, telling a developer to fuck around with UE and Daz3D before even having any idea of the game he wants to actually develop

From my point of view, when thinking about a game, there are 2 ways to think about it:

1)Research the engines, see what YOU can do with them. Not what OTHERS have done with them. Then, write your story so it FITS with what you can do in your engine.

2) Write your story, spend a lot of time on refining it and then HOPE you can implement it in an engine.

Don't get me wrong, a good story can make or break a game, but, you need a game in the first place. So, I would still say: build the game first, before you focus on the details of the story. And to start making the game, you need just the basics: location, the time it takes place and the scope of the story.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Just because he thinks he wants to deal with it that way doesn't mean he should, and you know it.

I wonder, could it be the reason why I tell him to give it a try before everything else ? In order to know if he can both do it and handle the load of works that it would imply...

That's like telling a 3rd chair high school violinist that "sure, you can rent Carnegie Hall to solo a command performance - it's what you want"

Once again, I said the opposite, but well...

2) Write your story, spend a lot of time on refining it and then HOPE you can implement it in an engine.

And half the abandoned games happen because "no, you can't implement it" ; either because of the engine, or because of the limits of your own knowledge.

So, when the project is as big as that, passing one week looking at the engine, to know if you have a chance or not, will always be better than spending months on a story that you'll possibly have to restart from crash because you can't do all the game mechanisms it rely on.