asehpe

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I think people worry too much about what is a "game" or isn't (a question Wittgenstein famously left unanswered). To me, VNs and kinetic novels are games, so this is clearly a game; the fact it has only one choice just shows it is still in its early stages, but shows already a lot of promise. Femdom + comedy is not a frequent combination, so I am quite intrigued by what this will become; and the idea of a boy being forced by a collar to satisfy any fetish a girl who pays him might have -- be the girl a 'good' girl or an 'evil' girl -- has me grinning from ear to ear.
 

Ryonaman

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I liked it, interesting story and the scenes are good looking
I kinda feel like running away from female students and getting the scenes when they catch you in as an rpg maker game would fit this setting a lot though (at least in between story) also give the game more playing time with less effort.
 
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asehpe

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Replaying the game now, it just occurred to me that this is an anti-Pinocchio story: a real boy is mistaken for a doll by people who can't see he already is a real boy -- because all "boys" are dolls in this world. The only exception is Rea, who is the MC's anti-Geppetto: she knows he is a real boy, but wants to make him behave like a doll, apparently for the purpose of making money.

There are the elements of a potentially heartbreaking tragedy in this setup (consider Rea vs. Emily vs. MC). I don't know if the dev wants to take it this way (after all, it has been so far a light comedy, where the beautiful femdom elements dominate), but I'm suddenly curious about what could be done if the dev were to want it to go the serious/tragic route. We'd get better insight into the characters' personalities and their motivations (comedies usually remain shallow in terms of character psychology, but tragedies do give you more space for it), which might be interesting.
 
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asehpe

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Out of curiosity, this suggests that the "true Route" leads to a Rea ending, which I can understand; but I also felt interested in Emily, who is poor (and that introduces an interesting new angle). I thought she might develop feelings for the MC once she finds out he is a "real boy," and that there would be some romance along with using him for sex games. Is that an option? If not, is the fact that Emily is poorer than the others ever going to play a role in the story?
 
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SurprisedMoth

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Out of curiosity, this suggests that the "true Route" leads to a Rea ending, which I can understand; but I also felt interested in Emily, who is poor (and that introduces an interesting new angle). I thought she might develop feelings for the MC once she finds out he is a "real boy," and that there would be some romance along with using him for sex games. Is that an option? If not, is the fact that Emily is poorer than the others ever going to play a role in the story?
I think the last part is not fixed plan of endings, it's just an example of future game model.
 

MateDolce

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I liked it, interesting story and the scenes are good looking
I kinda feel like running away from female students and getting the scenes when they catch you in as an rpg maker game would fit this setting a lot though (at least in between story) also give the game more playing time with less effort.
Chapter 2 focuses on you trying to escape from the bullies because of what happened in Chapter 1. It would be great to add that kind of gameplay, but it's not possible for me at the moment (in terms of coding skills).

I'm already looking into adding more gameplay elements to the story, if all goes well there's a certain point in the story where I can split the story and make a direct sequel with a different gameplay (So I don't have to reboot the whole game from scratch).
I doubt I'll ever use the RPG maker, I've heard it's a pain to add proper VN functionality. I was thinking of a more standard dating simulator, with the difference that the money you earn does not come from jobs, but directly from the girls, which is also based on your performance/skills.

These are all plans for the future obviously, my priority now is to have consistent updates.

Replaying the game now, it just occurred to me that this is an anti-Pinocchio story: a real boy is mistaken for a doll by people who can't see he already is a real boy -- because all "boys" are dolls in this world. The only exception is Rea, who is the MC's anti-Geppetto: she knows he is a real boy, but wants to make him behave like a doll, apparently for the purpose of making money.

There are the elements of a potentially heartbreaking tragedy in this setup (consider Rea vs. Emily vs. MC). I don't know if the dev wants to take it this way (after all, it has been so far a light comedy, where the beautiful femdom elements dominate), but I'm suddenly curious about what could be done if the dev were to want it to go the serious/tragic route. We'd get better insight into the characters' personalities and their motivations (comedies usually remain shallow in terms of character psychology, but tragedies do give you more space for it), which might be interesting.
Fuck, that's a really good analogy! How did I not think of that? You're putting me to shame, haha. About the story, there's an underlying plot with some tragic elements, and there are also the obvious dystopian aspects in which the future of the story lies, but it never gets totally dark, It's a heartwarming story at its core.

Out of curiosity, this suggests that the "true Route" leads to a Rea ending, which I can understand; but I also felt interested in Emily, who is poor (and that introduces an interesting new angle). I thought she might develop feelings for the MC once she finds out he is a "real boy," and that there would be some romance along with using him for sex games. Is that an option? If not, is the fact that Emily is poorer than the others ever going to play a role in the story?
I'm glad someone likes Emily, her design is a little plain, so I wasn't sure what people would think of her. The "True Route" is Rea, there is an underlying plot line involving your death and disease that is central to her character, but Emily and Mia were intended to be main girls with their individual routes. In a more standard scenario, her route would have been the more vanilla/romantic one, and that often means it's the route with least sexual content at the beginning. In some games this causes unbalanced choices such as "Do you want to hold hands with this girl... or have an animated sex scene with this other one?” If the choices aren't equally appealing to the player, that removes some of the weight of having to choose in the first place. The fact that she is "poor" is a factor in the way that, even if she would like to take things slower, the time she has with you is limited and it is not enough to satisfy her (emotionally or otherwise), so she is forced to be more forward in her advances.

As SurprisedMoth said, that was just a template of how things could go, it was a more linear approach based on rebellion/submission to the collar. That changed, now I'm using a more standard choice-based story approach (still with a score system for each girl), With the difference that it also counts the credits you earn, the coins you can hide for yourself and how close you are to being exposed.
 
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asehpe

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I'm already looking into adding more gameplay elements to the story, if all goes well there's a certain point in the story where I can split the story and make a direct sequel with a different gameplay (So I don't have to reboot the whole game from scratch).
I doubt I'll ever use the RPG maker, I've heard it's a pain to add proper VN functionality. I was thinking of a more standard dating simulator, with the difference that the money you earn does not come from jobs, but directly from the girls, which is also based on your performance/skills.
Personally, I think some people exaggerate the need for "gameplay"; I'm more into the story/stories of a given game, and how that story is presented -- linearly as in a kinetic novel, via choices as in a VN, or with a protagonist avatar moving around and entering into combat-like and puzzle situations -- is in itself less important than how well the preferred choice expresses the story. I.e., these possibilities are tools, not boxes to be checked. If introducing gameplay in a route serves the needs of the story and makes the narrative more enjoyable, great! But if it doesn't, introducing it may not be such a good idea.

The sub in me loves the way you made the MC totally dependent on the girls: he'll do anything they want (and how many kinks are you willing to make him go through? maybe some light femdom with, say, shoe kissing, ass worship, etc.?...) after they pay him. I love the way Rea used him (it would be nice if every girl got a cunnilingus scene with the MC the way Rea did... seeing his head between her legs was so lovely) and then calls him a whore. If the other girls could call him that, too, it would be wonderful!

Fuck, that's a really good analogy! How did I not think of that? You're putting me to shame, haha. About the story, there's an underlying plot with some tragic elements, and there are also the obvious dystopian aspects in which the future of the story lies, but it never gets totally dark, It's a heartwarming story at its core.
Hey, don't worry. I love literature and thinking about literature (heck, I even taught writing in grad school for a while), so I tend to think of analogies like that. I'm glad the story is ultimately heartwarming (there's too much gloom and doom in femdom stories already); but then again, Pinocchio, also ultimately a heartwarming story, has some pretty dark moments.

At this point, though, your story made me curious about the personality and motivations of at least two characters beside the MC: Rea and Emily (the other girls are thus far not very distinct, though I'm guessing this will change in chapter two). I hope we'll get to know them better, and not only in a sexual way. Rea seems to be a geeky, wacky girl who isn't very organized (the teacher calls her "Lazy Rea") but who is obviously very intelligent; she also apparently doesn't know how to handle people well (a little bit of Asperger's?), as one can see how she treats and talks to the MC (and again I say, I just LOVE how she pimps him out: he does all the work, the collar forces him to, against his will, while Rea gets all the money and gives him nothing... how sweet! Makes me feel like giving her a hug.)

I'm glad someone likes Emily, her design is a little plain, so I wasn't sure what people would think of her.
I actually like her design, she looks pretty. And she seems interesting: she is clearly poorer than the others and tries to hide it from them to avoid their judgmental attitude (she hides her food, for instance); this creates sympathy for her and makes me want to know more about her history and her situation. I hope she does get to live a true romance, even if not with the MC.

The "True Route" is Rea, there is an underlying plot line involving your death and disease that is central to her character, but Emily and Mia were intended to be main girls with their individual routes.
Oh, I'm interested already. Death and disease?... Is this connected to the picture of the teacher talking about the XY purge? (That picture reminded me, by the way, of a graphic novel called "Y: The Last Man," that also deals with a world in which some kind of plague killed all men -- in fact all male mammals -- except one. Do you know it? It is certainly not a comedy, more of a tragedy, but I wondered if it could give you some worldbuilding inspiration.)

In a more standard scenario, her route would have been the more vanilla/romantic one, and that often means it's the route with least sexual content at the beginning. In some games this causes unbalanced choices such as "Do you want to hold hands with this girl... or have an animated sex scene with this other one?” If the choices aren't equally appealing to the player, that removes some of the weight of having to choose in the first place.
Personally, even though I like a hot sex scene just as much as the next guy, I'm also a romantic, so, frankly, I might well choose the "hold hands with this girl" option even in my first playthrough, depending on the situation. I don't think that a route with less sexual content at first is such a bad idea. True, we're talking about hentai games here, but still, plot and character development ARE interesting and worthwhile goals to pursue, just as much as cunnilingus and male prostitution... ;)

(By the way, out of curiosity: I was a bit surprised by how casually the girls stripped naked and started playing that "insert-fingers-in-anus" game. True, they're all girls so nudity may not be a big deal, but... why that kind of teasing game? Is it OK in a girls-will-be-girls kind of way in that society? What would the teachers say about it?)

The fact that she is "poor" is a factor in the way that, even if she would like to take things slower, the time she has with you is limited and it is not enough to satisfy her (emotionally or otherwise), so she is forced to be more forward in her advances.
True, but I imagine being poor also affects her behavior and her relationship with the other girls, especially if they keep taunting her about it, as if Emily was some kind of Oliver Twist, which suggests some possible non-sexual but interesting interactions with the other girls... Also, if the MC develops feelings for her, he might also service her for free, just because he likes her (heck, in Chap. 1 he already attempts to save her from the mean girls, and they share a moment in that cabinet; I imagine he already feels something for her). In this case, they would have more time to play and perhaps build a relationship, especially if at some point she discovers he is a "real boy".

As SurprisedMoth said, that was just a template of how things could go, it was a more linear approach based on rebellion/submission to the collar. That changed, now I'm using a more standard choice-based story approach (still with a score system for each girl), With the difference that it also counts the credits you earn, the coins you can hide for yourself and how close you are to being exposed.
Out of curiosity, will we be warned about what choices give us credit or lead to our being exposed? Or do we have to guess? (I prefer the latter, by the way.)
 

MateDolce

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Personally, I think some people exaggerate the need for "gameplay"; I'm more into the story/stories of a given game, and how that story is presented -- linearly as in a kinetic novel, via choices as in a VN, or with a protagonist avatar moving around and entering into combat-like and puzzle situations -- is in itself less important than how well the preferred choice expresses the story. I.e., these possibilities are tools, not boxes to be checked. If introducing gameplay in a route serves the needs of the story and makes the narrative more enjoyable, great! But if it doesn't, introducing it may not be such a good idea.
I wasn't planning to add all the features of a standard game like STS because that would spread the content too thin. I don't want the game to need complicated guide to get to the route you want (like being at a special moment on a special day to trigger an event). For example, if you want Emily, choose scenes that involve her, if you don't want to get exposed, maybe don't be such a slut.

I really want to answer all your questions (all authors like to talk about their work haha), but chapter 2 comes out in a week and it's better if you see things first hand. I rather spread things like the history of the world and people's behavior throughout the chapters, otherwise it would result in infodumps and long expositions.

Out of curiosity, will we be warned about what choices give us credit or lead to our being exposed? Or do we have to guess? (I prefer the latter, by the way.)
The collar tells you when the credits have been charged, here's an example: Android LIFE gui preview.png
Also, the girls tell you or you get a GC showing the bill. The "exposed counter" is hidden, it has to be taken out of the context of the scene.
 
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fulcrum

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MateDolce what did she do to the boy by the way? is that cosmetic changes only or did she give the boy an actual cyberbody or even a fully digital brain via "nano"tech? that's a transbio-transhumanist's wet dream, especialy with a protein assembling bioprinter for sperm down there.
 
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MateDolce

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MateDolce what did she do to the boy by the way? is that cosmetic changes only or did she give the boy an actual cyberbody or even a fully digital brain via "nano"tech? that's a transbio-transhumanist's wet dream, especialy with a protein assembling bioprinter for sperm down there.
She only made cosmetic changes to make him look like an android and hid some things under his skin to make him work with the collar, the point of using him was that she didn't want to work, although later in the story:
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MateDolce

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Can't wait!...

Out of curiosity: do you have everything already planned, or are there parts of the story that you left vague and will develop only when you get there?
In my limited experience writing novels (not VNs), stories end up better when you don't have the whole plot set in stone. I have certain beats and events that I want to follow to make the story go the way I wanted it to, but I know that this medium requires way more flexibility. With every release, you have to measure what people are interested in and complaining about, and also what patrons want to see.

This doesn't mean that the story is a kite in the wind, since the game has a plot and it's not just "fucking everyone in the house", I still need a tight grip on how things develop. For example, in chapter 3 I have planned for Mia, Luna and Rea to appear, for the rest of the chapter I can make the patrons decide that they would like to see more, here's how the polls will work:
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I don't let the polls decide what the whole chapter is about, just a part of it, so the story keeps moving in the intended direction.
 
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asehpe

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In my limited experience writing novels (not VNs), stories end up better when you don't have the whole plot set in stone.
That's also been my experience, as well as that of most writers I actually talked to.

I have certain beats and events that I want to follow to make the story go the way I wanted it to, but I know that this medium requires way more flexibility.
I'd actually be interested (you can DM me if you think this forum isn't the right place) in hearing your opinions about the difference between novel writing and the VN medium. (I'm toying with the idea of doing one myself, but the amount of programming you need to learn is daunting, especially for a near-illiterate like me.)

With every release, you have to measure what people are interested in and complaining about, and also what patrons want to see.
Hmmm... one of my qualms about supporting developers on patreon (besides budget problems) was that this kind of thing sounds a lot like writing by committee, which is one of the reasons why Soviet Socialist Realism never really produced much of interest.

This doesn't mean that the story is a kite in the wind, since the game has a plot and it's not just "fucking everyone in the house", I still need a tight grip on how things develop.
I'm really glad to hear that!

For example, in chapter 3 I have planned for Mia, Luna and Rea to appear, for the rest of the chapter I can make the patrons decide that they would like to see more, here's how the polls will work:
I don't let the polls decide what the whole chapter is about, just a part of it, so the story keeps moving in the intended direction.
I'm curious about how you strike the golden mean between following your own aesthetic and literary intention, and also respecting your patron's desire to see this or that girl do this or that to our pseudo-android hero. Personally, there are lots of interesting things I'd love to see the girls do to him (did I mention more cunnilingus? :p), but I also always thought that, if you let the writer follow his/her instincts, you end up with more interesting things -- rather than a color-by-number scene that checks a box but doesn't fulfill a need. No offense intended -- I'm just curious about how you do it.
 
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MateDolce

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Nah, it's fine here, I could help someone in the same predicament and maybe they'd like to join in. My advice if you want to make a VN is to just do it, Renpy has a tutorial game that fills you with everything you need to know in order to make something as simple as this game, it would take you less than a day, no programming experience is needed. Trying to avoid the code completely is even worse.

My first attempt to create a game had a similar premise (same protagonist) but this time it really died and was transported to a fantasy world, I was making the art by hand in TyranoBuilder, that engine is just drag and drop, you don't need to code it, but it would break easily if you tried to change some things. As I'm not a skilled artist, it was taking me a long time, I would never be able to update consistently, so I dropped it.

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My second attempt was a text-based game in Twine, no art, no code (just for formatting). The name was "Blue Blight" a prequel of this game, set when there were still some men ( about 10% ). The main character lived all his life sheltered on a farm by his grandparents until he turned 18, when he demanded that they let him go to the city to find a wife (think of "Blast from the Past" with Brendan Fraser). Then they revealed to him the state of the world, that women have become predatory and morals have changed, so finding a wife would not be so easy. It was going well, but I really wanted to add the art and my skills were not up to par.

On the third attempt, I decided to use a hybrid method, traced Koikatsu. The fact that the game took place in a school environment helped me speed things up and allowed me to actually produce stuff. I decided to use VNmaker, the first part of the game was done, but the engine was lagging, and since it only drag a drop I couldn't fix the damn thing. That's how I moved Renpy, and the rest is history.


Moral of the story: don't try to avoid the code, just download Renpy and try, it couldn't be easier. DON'T LET DREAMS BE DREAMS.

I'd actually be interested in hearing your opinions about the difference between novel writing and the VN medium.
The core values of storytelling and character development still apply (kind of), with the big difference that in VNs (the lewd kind) you need to spice things up from time to time. The first release of the game (ch1) had 0 sexual content, just a kiss from Emily, that was a big mistake and almost killed my hopes at the beginning. Fortunately, the game's plot lends itself easily to more sexual stuff, so I fixed it in chapter 1.5. Of course you can do a slow burner with a good story, but remember that the player has to have fun, keep in mind where we are hahaha

Hmmm... one of my qualms about supporting developers on patreon (besides budget problems) was that this kind of thing sounds a lot like writing by committee, which is one of the reasons why Soviet Socialist Realism never really produced much of interest.
I could fall into it if the polls were about fetishes directly, in which case I would not be able to maintain the direction of the game. For example, cunnilingus is a standard thing and I'm sure all girls will get to it at some point, but as for the other things you mention (like shoe kissing, ass worship), not all girls would lend themselves to that, I wouldn't put something in the poll that's out of character for that girl. For example:

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As with all things you have to balance while making a game, your own interest is a factor to consider, and it greatly affects the quality of the game. If you don't keep that in check, it could end up killing the project. Don't worry, I won't put myself into a corner doing polls on things I don't enjoy.
 
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asehpe

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My advice if you want to make a VN is to just do it, Renpy has a tutorial game that fills you with everything you need to know in order to make something as simple as this game, it would take you less than a day, no programming experience is needed. Trying to avoid the code completely is even worse. [...] On the third attempt, I decided to use a hybrid method, traced Koikatsu.
You're probably right. And I do happen to have a story in mind that I have been nursing for about half a year (since before the pandemic)... I just might try my hand at it, once I find some extra free time... Is the tutorial really all you need to know? Also for creating pictures, and animations? Does it take long to do that? What is Koisatsu, by the way, and is it difficult to trace?

The core values of storytelling and character development still apply (kind of), with the big difference that in VNs (the lewd kind) you need to spice things up from time to time. The first release of the game (ch1) had 0 sexual content, just a kiss from Emily, that was a big mistake and almost killed my hopes at the beginning. Fortunately, the game's plot lends itself easily to more sexual stuff, so I fixed it in chapter 1.5. Of course you can do a slow burner with a good story, but remember that the player has to have fun, keep in mind where we are hahaha
Taking the intended audience into account is always important, I agree. In my case, the story would be, let's say, a lot darker than the one you're apparently planning to write, I imagine I would eventually lose many followers or supporters anyway. Still... While agreeing with your "keep in mind where you are" caveat, most details I wouldn't want to compromise on. Outside input would be more a question of a check on the realism and consistency of my story: does X or Y make sense? Is it a natural consequence of what happened before, plus world knowledge / science, plus the personalities of the characters? What would you expect to happen instead, and why? etc.

I could fall into it if the polls were about fetishes directly, in which case I would not be able to maintainthe direction of the game. For example, cunnilingus is a standard thing and I'm sure all girls will get to it at some point, but as for the other things you mention (like shoe kissing, ass worship), not all girls would lend themselves to that, I wouldn't put something in the poll that's out of character for that girl.
I'm glad to hear about the inevitability of cunnilingus -- if I can't get the other fetishes, that alone will keep me happy. ;) And I agree that characters are basically random enough that the choice they would make in a given situation is not set in stone (if the same situation were replayed, the same character might make a different choice; choices aren't predetermined), so in some cases a poll may be just as good a way of deciding what she would do than the author's impression based on his/her vision of the character.

As with all things you have to balance while making a game, your own interest is a factor to consider, and it greatly affects the quality of the game. If you don't keep that in check, it could end up killing the project. Don't worry, I won't put myself into a corner doing polls on things I don't enjoy.
I'm again glad to hear that!

Moral of the story: don't try to avoid the code, just download Renpy and try, it couldn't be easier. DON'T LET DREAMS BE DREAMS.
Thanks! (y):)
 
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MateDolce

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Koikatsu is a game made by Illusion that allows you to create and pose characters, basically, you take screenshots of the game to make the art, it's from the same creators of Honey Select, which is more popular and you've probably seen a game done that way already. Here is a list made by Adabelitoo of all the games made with Koikatsu, he is the dev of Complex Society.

The Renpy tutorial is just for making the VN, the art is up to you. You can go 3D with Daz, Honey Select or Koikatsu. 2D obviously requires you to draw, and also you can trace as I do. Look, it's not exactly easy, but if you want to go 2D no matter what, it's the safest choice, only takes time to produce.

Here is an example of the screenshot against the finished product.
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If you decide to go that route, use Clip Studio Paint instead of Photoshop, CSP allows you to use vector lines that can be modified later (so you don't fall into the eternal Ctrl+Z loop until you get that line right).

To make animations is a whole other subject, if you use only Koikatsu, there are already animations in the game. If you go in 2D... the way I do it is to cut and redraw the body part that moves and then use After Effects with the Puppet Pin tool, that's another skill set, not impossible, but not that easy either.
 
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