Animations, are they worth it?

Would you sacrifice animations in favor of faster / bigger updates

  • Yes, I would sacrifice all animations if it means faster / bigger updates

    Votes: 46 37.7%
  • Occassionally some animations are still nice

    Votes: 41 33.6%
  • There should be as many animations as possible even if it means smaller / slower updates

    Votes: 35 28.7%

  • Total voters
    122

Avaron1974

Resident Lesbian
Aug 22, 2018
25,159
86,155
Some "animations" have ruined games for me.

I could never complete Dreams of Desire because those shitty jumpy stop frame "animations" look fucking terrible.

The problem here is most of these devs are doing this as a hobby on top of full time jobs and families so time is an issue. Animations take a LOT of time so they either don't bother or release really small updates.

I'll take still pictures over shitty scene ruining abominations any day.

I do agree with one poster above though, those comments of "no animations I pass" are insta facepalm for me too.
 

Adabelitoo

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2018
1,947
3,024
If a dev has already planned out where the update will start/end and all of the things in between, then the animation time to make should be within that plan also. Thus no eating up time, seeing as if was either the animation or 8 stills and no other change to the game. Now if they don't plan and just do as much as they can in the time frame, then yes of course it will eat into time.
As a dev and as a player who read lots of others devs, I can tell you that this is 100% not the case.

Because you can plan exactly how you want to start, how you want to end and how much content to do in between but then as you work on the game you'll start realizing something and start thinking "it would be so cool if I do this", "this scene seems perfect to that", "I didn't noticed before but if I do this, that and that, it would be way better than only doing this" and things like that and you already are out of that "initial schedule". Another big thing is that this is a creative process and as any creative process, the mood has a big influence on it and if you aren't feeling like it then you won't be able to work no matter how much you try it, because the script you write will suck, because you won't find any good angles to make a render/CG, etc. Last but not least are the unexpected things happening. You got sick? you lose time. The power goes off? you lose time. You have to work (in you real work, not on this) more days/hours than expected? You lose time. Etc.

Sure, every dev could and should plan their updates anyway, but it doesn't mean that a dev will make it in time just because he planned it.
 

lancelotdulak

Active Member
Nov 7, 2018
556
551
Im assuming your a dev and if so.. i dont think youve explained well enough to people how MUCH time animations take. Assuming you want the quality and size of a normal game... 2 hours per render.. 24 renders per second (2 days solid) ....
 

TrialRagnarok

Scrambled Bussy Appreciator
Donor
Jan 22, 2018
3,232
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Animation is nice, but I have no problems with stationary images.
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Basically tracing over photomontages, which is super weird. I never found them attractive, let alone good fap material but now like this... No thank you. It's easier to blow a load with a normal photo of one of your favorite celebrities than with photomontages of them.
 
May 31, 2018
421
151
I personally really like and want animation, but engine, animation software, etc will change my views on whether or not it is worth it.
 

User #1751331

Member
Oct 30, 2019
193
156
There seems to be an aspect of this that is being over looked in the conversation.
So far the conversation has been around rendering with programs like daz3d or blender and then bring those renders into the VN.
Not sure that's the best solution. Even when scene and objects are reduced and optimized the take a long time to render. But the end result isn't images a great deal better than what high end video games have today. Scene complexity can actually be lower.

People see less detail in motion images than they do stills they have less time to observe it. So is it really worth that extra time and effort put into these types of renders?

The real issue is then are we using the best method of providing animations?

My understanding is that Renpy can actually display 3D with opengl.

However, I don't think it is going to be to the quality and detail level of say Laura Croft. Renpy has a number of performance bottle necks of its own add to that any ones the game developer might create in their programming.

I think the real issue is more along the lines of trying to add animation to a game built on the wrong game engine.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean what you are using is the best tool for the job.
That also goes just because something is easier to setup doesn't make it the best tool for the job either.

Update 1/30/2020 Just adding more.
siliconarts_ray_tracing.jpg

Take the image above I tend to find it disingenuous. If you look at the table in the raster version it is really dark. The problem is they didn't adjust the material properly. You can also see they don't have shadows turned on. I'm not entirely sure if that is purely the person who created the image or the lack of hardware capability they were dealing with. You have gourand and phong shading, Shadow volumes and soft shadows and blending has various methods as well.

If you do a search for rasterization vs ray tracing most issues show in similar images be it lighting, shadows, blending have all been improved drastically.
The biggest area ray tracing has a real advantage is accurate reflections. That said reflections can be mapped onto surfaces but they aren't the same.

Given that humans can only perceive so much detail at one time or in a length of time. Unless your characters are screwing in a hall of mirrors ray tracing frames for a animated sequence is over kill. It's needed for large production movies that show on large screens. Even then most the detail is missed. Take the movie blade runner. Most people who have watched it know there is a lot of detail in it but most really have no idea exactly how much unless they watched the show about its making.

Given that a game engine can produce the scenes in over 60fps in many cases with an optimized scene. You could capture it and have a hell of a lot more time to remake it if you choose to correct something.

That said if you are going to take the time to port the models and scenes to be used in a game engine it would stand to reason why not use the game engine to make the game rather than try and render to a video.

There are a number of topics one can help you understand my point of view.
digital images vs human perception.
Limits of human perception ... This one can cover a lot of stuff. Just focus on the stuff related to vision since that's really what this is about.
 
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hyper321

New Member
Feb 17, 2018
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I generally don't like animations. They tend to have weird physics, lower graphical fidelity, and usually just look awkward. I'll take well lit, well posed stills any day of the week.
 
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215303j

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I think the real issue is more along the lines of trying to add animation to a game built on the wrong game engine.
Good post (I think, although I don't know enough about the technical side of rendering).

But if you need to change the engine just because of animations, the "is it worth it?" question get's a different angle.
In my opinion, Ren'py is vastly superior to other engines. I'm sure that it is technically somehow possible to have all Ren'py functions (rollback, skip seen/unseen content, console, text speed etc.) in Unity, but I just never have seen someone do it... ;)
 
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recreation

pure evil!
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Jun 10, 2018
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Good post (I think, although I don't know enough about the technical side of rendering).

But if you need to change the engine just because of animations, the "is it worth it?" question get's a different angle.
In my opinion, Ren'py is vastly superior to other engines. I'm sure that it is technically somehow possible to have all Ren'py functions (rollback, skip seen/unseen content, console, text speed etc.) in Unity, but I just never have seen someone do it... ;)
It is possible, you can even do that in html games, but you'll have to code most of the stuff yourself.

About animations: I love them! Not the rendering part, and not the part where you have to fix all the bugs that you didn't see before rendering, but the outcome when it's finally done and it looks well.
It's a shitload of work and costs a lot of time, and yes, Daz is neither the best program to make animations, nor to render them, even most of the preset animations from the Daz and renderosity stores look shitty, but even in other programs like blender, maya, or sfm it takes a lot of time, and that's the biggest reason why they are so sparse, and even fewer that look good in (VN) games.
It's no easy task, but I personally think that it's worth it when the outcome is good. I always wanted to see more good animations in VN's.
 

lancelotdulak

Active Member
Nov 7, 2018
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551
Good post (I think, although I don't know enough about the technical side of rendering).

But if you need to change the engine just because of animations, the "is it worth it?" question get's a different angle.
In my opinion, Ren'py is vastly superior to other engines. I'm sure that it is technically somehow possible to have all Ren'py functions (rollback, skip seen/unseen content, console, text speed etc.) in Unity, but I just never have seen someone do it... ;)
Python is a VERY simple, scripting languages. Comparing renpy to unity is like comparing a cart to a maserati. And .. just to be clear technically... renpy isnt an engine.... unity and ue4 are game/3d engines. Iray/Vray/Arnold are rendering engines. Renpy is a scripted language
 

Joshua Tree

Conversation Conqueror
Jul 10, 2017
6,158
6,556
Animations just for the sake of animations? Not so much. Doesn't matter how much eye candy you put into something if it doesn't have good characters and story to start with.

I dislike it when creators use text to describe anything that goes on in a scene/animation as well, because the reader/player already get that information from just watching the screen.
 

Deleted member 167032

Alternate Existence
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Aug 16, 2017
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Nun Yah does some great sexual/erotic stills. DoD had similar....

Every sex scene does not have to have animations. Adding them is just more immersion.

What gets me the most are short "cold" sex scenes. Puts dick in ass or pussy and one two three sex done. NO build up, no longevity nothing. 15 seconds and sex scene done. I just cannot get immersed in those. Even if the animations are a little robotic if the overall sex scene is planned and fairly long without being annoyingly long then it all works.

I play these games to find one or two chars in teh game i really want to bang. When i finally get to bang them i want that sex scene to get me hard and excited not over in a few seconds... I believe i did that in RTP S3E2 with Nicky...

Recreations anims are great, Milfy City great, Icstor anims great... Jorreal great etc... Animation is suppose to emulate real life movement but until you actually make games/animations in DAZ yourself you will never really grasp what devs are on about how much time it takes... and how rewarding it is if you made an animation that looks good.