Any devs with actual experience of Patreon "review"?

[Tataro]

Just move over to subscribestar. Fuck Patreon

 

[EpicLust]

I'm doing the same, my patreon is basically empty and everything I posted so far is SFW despite being marked as 18+
Anyway I'm under review for 2 days now...

Wow, and do you know why it was put under review???

 

[recreation]

Wow, and do you know why it was put under review???

I have no clue. I send them an Email, but got no response so far :/

 

[Rich]

Because I don't post links of the game on my patreon page. I email my processed patrons with the link.
Even if a player reported me, there's nothing patreon could do since I'm not posting links from their actual platform.

Not exactly true. If they woke up one morning and decided to consider this against their ToS, they could turn you off. Essentially, they get to define the rules and what they mean. They even tell you that:

These guidelines are not meant to be exhaustive. If you find a new and creative way to hurt Patreon or our users we may take action to prevent it.

Creators have very little recourse if Patreon decides to ban you other than make whatever modifications they demand and beg to be forgiven.

That being said, if links are not freely available through Patreon, you're obviously far less likely to attract the attention of someone who would report you. It's unlikely that your subscribers themselves are going to squeal.

 

[stevedave83]

I'm also considering the idea of divorcing myself from subscription sites completely and developing a full game or VN for release on digital distribution platforms like Steam or the Humble Store...or even more niche outlets like Manga Gamer. I was reading a thread on Reddit a couple of weeks ago in which a developer (I have no idea who this guy is, so I'm taking his comments with a grain of salt) claims to have made in two months what he made in two years on Patreon by going with that strategy. It also seems that even the mainstream platforms don't have a huge issue with taboo content. DFD is on the Humble Store, after all. Though, with Steam very publicly changing their content guidelines pretty recently I'm considering that a highly volatile market.

 

[recreation]

I have no clue. I send them an Email, but got no response so far :/

I got an answer from patreon and it seems like they did their review because a "suspicious individual attempted to make a pledge" to me.
Weird, but okay, I won't complain lol.

 

[Rich]

I got an answer from patreon and it seems like they did their review because a "suspicious individual attempted to make a pledge" to me.

Ah, so you came under suspicion of being a front for terrorists, eh?

Kind of ugly when you end up being taken down for a few days on a false alarm, but at least it was only a false alarm...

 

[recreation]

Ah, so you came under suspicion of being a front for terrorists, eh?

Kind of ugly when you end up being taken down for a few days on a false alarm, but at least it was only a false alarm...

I wasn't taken down, I was under review, the page was still up. I just didn't know what was going on, I got no hint, no nothing. I thought I did something wrong but couldn't find anything. That was kinda weird tbh^^

 

[Rich]

I wasn't taken down, I was under review, the page was still up. I just didn't know what was going on, I got no hint, no nothing. I thought I did something wrong but couldn't find anything. That was kinda weird tbh^^

Ah - I assumed that when you went into "under review" the page was disabled during the review process. Substantially less ugly then. Just nervous-making. LOL

 

[recreation]

Ah - I assumed that when you went into "under review" the page was disabled during the review process. Substantially less ugly then. Just nervous-making. LOL

Actually I think it's funny. I didn't even want to open a patreon, but I was basically bombarded with questions where my patreon is. So I ended up making a patreon page and then it took only hours to get under review
My reaction was this:

Loool, just got a mail from patreon that my account is under review, wtf

 

[Rich]

and then it took only hours to get under review

...all part of the service.

 

[79flavors]

I saw this one about 30 minutes ago.

Seems a dev who'd flagged their Patreon account as 18+ was still called to task about posting images WITH mosaics hiding anything indecent.

You must be registered to see the links

(it's Glamour, btw).

Their solution was to make all the offending images "Patron Only".

I don't get it. Anyone visiting an adult Patreon gets the "You must be 18+ to view this content" when they first visit and the visitor has to click the button that says "Yes, I am 18 years or older".
I guess even adults need protecting from adult content after clicking a button confirming they are an adult.
I guess they're worried little Jonny might see something naughty when "accidentally" finding a Patreon page on his parents shared computer?

Seriously though... Note to devs... be careful what you post as "public" posts, even on adult channels.

 

[recreation]

I saw this one about 30 minutes ago.

Seems a dev who'd flagged their Patreon account as 18+ was still called to task about posting images WITH mosaics hiding anything indecent.

You must be registered to see the links

(it's Glamour, btw).

Their solution was to make all the offending images "Patron Only".

I don't get it. Anyone visiting an adult Patreon gets the "You must be 18+ to view this content" when they first visit and the visitor has to click the button that says "Yes, I am 18 years or older".
I guess even adults need protecting from adult content after clicking a button confirming they are an adult.
I guess they're worried little Jonny might see something naughty when "accidentally" finding a Patreon page on his parents shared computer?

Seriously though... Note to devs... be careful what you post as "public" posts, even on adult channels.

From their guidelines:

You can post nude content on Patreon of both real and fictional subjects. Content with mature themes should be marked as “Patron Only”. This means that you cannot post nudity in public areas including your profile picture, banner, reward images or ‘about me’ section.

 

[RomanHume]

We got blacked out for a short while and could not get a response on why our page was under review. We had some images for our tiers that included covered models showing quite a bit of skin, but couldn't get an answer regarding why we were being reviewed.

Finally we just took down all of the images from our Patreon page and three emails later (with no response) we were unlocked. So who the fuck knows.

But their latest update to their policy just makes the whole incest thing more confusing. The T's and C's now state:

"We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing this type of content, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon."

So now I'm really fucking confused. Can I, or can I not have fictional incest in my game? I mean, Game of Thrones is certainly not a historical or educational narrative.

They do a good job of keeping the lines blurred so they can just swing that axe however they want.

 

[khumak]

I'm also considering the idea of divorcing myself from subscription sites completely and developing a full game or VN for release on digital distribution platforms like Steam or the Humble Store...or even more niche outlets like Manga Gamer. I was reading a thread on Reddit a couple of weeks ago in which a developer (I have no idea who this guy is, so I'm taking his comments with a grain of salt) claims to have made in two months what he made in two years on Patreon by going with that strategy. It also seems that even the mainstream platforms don't have a huge issue with taboo content. DFD is on the Humble Store, after all. Though, with Steam very publicly changing their content guidelines pretty recently I'm considering that a highly volatile market.

I'm definitely curious to hear what different devs have seen who have used both. If you can make similar or greater money on Steam without the content review hassles it seems like that would be a better way to go if you can weather the storm between releases without any subscription money. If you're doing it in your spare time on top of having a "real job", probably not an issue but if that's your only source of income that could be a problem.

I would think you could partially get around the issue by releasing your game as some sort of episodic series or having DLC. So instead of charging $20 or whatever for a full release, you release a short "episode" every month for $2 or something. I have no idea what people are charging for these on Steam btw, just throwing random numbers out there.

 

[gamersglory]

Steam is going to have the same problems as Patreon as there mainstream. Also, no way for you to get published on Mangagamer using Daz 3D they want hand drawn or fully custom 3D games. DMD by Mr. Dots is on Subscribestar.adult now which they seem to be the best option for right now. More options will come soon too. As for Patreon page reviews If you keep the page as generic as possible and don't link it to your own website where full details are given then you should be good.

 

[leSagi]

My Patreon page hasn't been taken down, I was just put into contact with someone at Patreon. But I think I can still help a little bit.

Patreon aren't playing these games. I would say they never will, but I don't want those words to bite me in the ass some day. They're actually just getting reports from players, real or not. As Jamdan mentioned, Patreon contacted me telling me Ashley looked too young, so I informed them that she's 19, and clearly stated in the game she's 19, and clearly shown in game that she isn't meant to be or look or act under aged, so they settled on letting me change her clothes, or change her breast size.

You can show Patreon your side of the story, but no matter what, don't fight them. People get banned off Patreon for fighting a decision. Rather let them know your side, and accept whatever they want you to do.

For incest, they want you to make which ever characters be not related. I assume you just need to change "sister" to "childhood friend" or something similar.



Patreon made me turn this:

Into this:

(visuals needed updating anyway)

Well Runey, to be honest: What they made you to change Ashs outfit into looks much better in the end. So you shouldn't mind.

 

[79flavors]

Rich Any chance I could ask about the recent suspension again on Patreon for your game?
(I understand if you'd rather keep your head down and avoid Patreon's direct gaze).

My impression was that they'd briefly pulled the page again because someone had reported that whilst the version of the game available through Patreon was entirely (mostly?) within their ToS, the person who reported it also highlighted that you were proving a patch on a 3rd party site (here).

I figure the info is especially relevant to anyone trying to create both safe+taboo versions of their game via a patch.

It still surprises me though... Since the biggest game I can think of to fall foul of this sort of contraversy (

You must be registered to see the links

) has exactly the same solution and is available through Steam, who I can only assume both know about the developer supplied patch and have the same payment processing companies involved as Patreon. Hell,

You must be registered to see the links

by the developer explaining HOW to apply the uncensor patch. Though now I say that, I suppose depiction of incest and showing naughty bits are treated differently within the law.

 

[Rich]

Rich Any chance I could ask about the recent suspension again on Patreon for your game?
(I understand if you'd rather keep your head down and avoid Patreon's direct gaze).

My impression was that they'd briefly pulled the page again because someone had reported that whilst the version of the game available through Patreon was entirely (mostly?) within their ToS, the person who reported it also highlighted that you were proving a patch on a 3rd party site (here).

That's essentially the story. Note that, in this particular case, the post containing the patch was one that I did myself, so there was no way to maintain the fiction that it was a third-party effort. So, I deleted the post, and told them I'd modified the game so that the patch would no longer be effective, and that satisfied them. Essentially, it appears that they are making game authors responsible for their activities outside of Patreon, at least with respect to content provided through Patreon.

I figure the info is especially relevant to anyone trying to create both safe+taboo versions of their game via a patch.

Quite possibly. I honestly don't know how they view the situation when a patch or mod is provided by someone other than the game author. It feels like it would be harder to hold the game developer responsible for that, but it probably depends on the circumstances.

I also don't know how they would view the situation in which the version delivered through Patreon met the ToS and was'nt patchable, but another complete version of the work was delivered through another channel, where that version differed from the Patreon version in ways that might violate the Patreon ToS.

It still surprises me though... Since the biggest game I can think of to fall foul of this sort of contraversy (

You must be registered to see the links

) has exactly the same solution and is available through Steam, who I can only assume both know about the developer supplied patch and have the same payment processing companies involved as Patreon. Hell,

You must be registered to see the links

by the developer explaining HOW to apply the uncensor patch.

Though now I say that, I suppose depiction of incest and showing naughty bits are treated differently within the law.

Yes, the latter could very well be important in the overall scheme of things. Simply "showing naughty bits" isn't against Patreon's ToS, (or Steam's, I think) and may very well be covered (in the US) under freedom of speech principles. (Pornography, for example, has long been held to be legal - an issue that went all the way to the Supreme Court.) So if the patch is simply undoing the kind of "you're not allowed to see those body parts" censorship that I understand is required in Japan, for example, then this probably doesn't earn you a ban. But I've never read through Steam's ToS - just heard about it third-hand here - so I'm not qualified to have an opinion on it.

In the grander scheme of things, it could be observed that there are at least two ways of implementing safe+taboo versions of a game. The first is where all the taboo content is within the game, and just needs to be enabled via some kind of simple one-liner. (Regardless of whether it's a magic keystroke combination, an add-on file that just flips a switch, etc.) The second is where all the taboo content is provided separately, making it more of a "mod" than a "patch." The "mod" approach is more technically challenging depending on what game engine one is using, but would seem to provide a greater deal of "plausible deniability" for the author than the former if provided by someone other than the author. After all, true mods do exist - for example, I worked with another forum member on one for Big Brother back in the day which added content to the game not created by the original author.

Anyway, that sums up my generic thinking on the subject, for whatever it might be worth to others here.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Essentially, it appears that they are making game authors responsible for their activities outside of Patreon, at least with respect to content provided through Patreon.

What they said when they forced Mr.Dots to start a second game, was that "you can't fund a game that contain banned content, whatever where this game is available".

I also don't know how they would view the situation in which the version delivered through Patreon met the ToS and was'nt patchable, but another complete version of the work was delivered through another channel, where that version differed from the Patreon version in ways that might violate the Patreon ToS.

I fear that they would see a second version as violating their ToS, as much as the patch did ; as long as it's clearly made by the same dev, it would be against their ToS.