- Aug 13, 2019
- 1,898
- 2,917
Anybody here also thinks that "freedom of choice" can be detrimental to players' experience ?
- Thread starter gobaterann
- Start date
Limited capabilites and resources force the use of a compromise where neither the developer nor the player are completely satisfied with the resulting game. No dev manages to fully make the game they envision and no player manages to play the game they imagine themselves playing.
The problem is neither the dev nor the player, the problem is the medium through which they fail to connect. The solutions is improving the medium as to closer reflect the wants and needs of the all the interested sides.
So, obviously, you guys need to make a full immersion VR life pod powered by a formative AI that will allow both dev and player replicate their exact desires. Good Luck and Good Speed!
The problem is neither the dev nor the player, the problem is the medium through which they fail to connect. The solutions is improving the medium as to closer reflect the wants and needs of the all the interested sides.
So, obviously, you guys need to make a full immersion VR life pod powered by a formative AI that will allow both dev and player replicate their exact desires. Good Luck and Good Speed!
these comments illuminate the problem perfectly, everybody sees it differently and there are no guaranteed right ways of doing anything. just bad or implementations of it. it all depends on what you're trying to communicate.
even instant game overs serve their purpose in telling the player incredibly effectively: "not in this game, spanky. you shove that dick in mom's face at 1st interaction and it's game right fucking over. try hugging next time." -it sets the tone and expectations, preferably early. it also gives weight to your choices. I always test this as the first thing in a new game, I take the most 'wrong' choices until the game punishes for it. it's maddening how seldom that happens, which means the choices are emotionally meaningless.
on the flipside, if you're doing a nukige, there's no place for instant game overs. instead the mom is gonna be overcome by lust just from seeing your cartoonishy large cock and proceed to gobble until your balls look like empty dried raisins. which is fine, for those who seek such stories. not everyone does.
so once again it depends on what you're trying to achieve. welcome to the wonderful world of writing.
even instant game overs serve their purpose in telling the player incredibly effectively: "not in this game, spanky. you shove that dick in mom's face at 1st interaction and it's game right fucking over. try hugging next time." -it sets the tone and expectations, preferably early. it also gives weight to your choices. I always test this as the first thing in a new game, I take the most 'wrong' choices until the game punishes for it. it's maddening how seldom that happens, which means the choices are emotionally meaningless.
on the flipside, if you're doing a nukige, there's no place for instant game overs. instead the mom is gonna be overcome by lust just from seeing your cartoonishy large cock and proceed to gobble until your balls look like empty dried raisins. which is fine, for those who seek such stories. not everyone does.
so once again it depends on what you're trying to achieve. welcome to the wonderful world of writing.
another thing I'd like to touch on, I don't think anyone commented on this yet:
the main reason for having inner character variables is not the branching of the plot. it's to simulate a 'personality' for an artificial being which has none. and to have a personality it needs to sometimes say NO to you. and that NO needs to make sense against the history of the artificial being. (which is why rng-responses are not enough, there must be memory).
this really covers all scenarios that have been mentioned so far. even if the 'character' weren't a human, but an object like a car. or a house. a car that doesn't start in the morning because you called it a piece of shit, has a personality. you feel it 'didn't want to start' because it's angry at you. maybe you'll even kick it to teach it a lesson.
where as a car that reacts totally as expected is just an object. same with fictional characters, because they too are objects and not real living people. the personality must be simulated or it won't be there.
the main reason for having inner character variables is not the branching of the plot. it's to simulate a 'personality' for an artificial being which has none. and to have a personality it needs to sometimes say NO to you. and that NO needs to make sense against the history of the artificial being. (which is why rng-responses are not enough, there must be memory).
this really covers all scenarios that have been mentioned so far. even if the 'character' weren't a human, but an object like a car. or a house. a car that doesn't start in the morning because you called it a piece of shit, has a personality. you feel it 'didn't want to start' because it's angry at you. maybe you'll even kick it to teach it a lesson.
where as a car that reacts totally as expected is just an object. same with fictional characters, because they too are objects and not real living people. the personality must be simulated or it won't be there.
- May 19, 2017
- 4,062
- 6,262
exactly
games serve a different purpose than porn.
games are about challenge, about using your brain, hand eye coordination, dexterity...
games have WINNERS and LOSERS
visual novels, have participation trophies
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For vn's, yeah... I often wish I could grab all the chicks in 1 go. But I also want vn's to have interesting stories that may contain nuggets of wisdom like "ooh.. some women intently swing their mood to test my confidence, eh?" then you choose whether to simp, change the game, or "fuck that... Next".
I won't mind if I rollback on stories that immerse you through different paradoxes in life that you might or won't have. That's the replay value. I won't mind if the updates are slow if it keeps me hooked for a long while.
But that's just me.
Now I wonder for the devs if it's kinda risky to let the viewers/players reap all the rewards in 1 go, making their viewers jaded in a short time, I mean, we've seen all the juicy scenes in 1 go, so no more replays. And the devs must be consistent, if not fast, on their updates, not to mention be attentive to feedbacks and suggestions, to keep the viewers fixed on their goods.
I won't mind if I rollback on stories that immerse you through different paradoxes in life that you might or won't have. That's the replay value. I won't mind if the updates are slow if it keeps me hooked for a long while.
But that's just me.
Now I wonder for the devs if it's kinda risky to let the viewers/players reap all the rewards in 1 go, making their viewers jaded in a short time, I mean, we've seen all the juicy scenes in 1 go, so no more replays. And the devs must be consistent, if not fast, on their updates, not to mention be attentive to feedbacks and suggestions, to keep the viewers fixed on their goods.
This talk is mostly about Game Design most than writing... (and is more about coding, because heavy branching can be very very tiring coding wise, than writing). A game has to be designed since the beginning with the important choices that will have in the future in mind, in order to make sense, story and gameplay wise, and not all stories or types of game need important choices. And of course, its been seen than in many cases some adult games in development don't have the future of the stories in mind, and work on whims.
It is clear anyway that there are gonna be players that prefer games where you can get all in a playthru (for example, I find of not good taste in summertime saga (I game I really like as a porn game), a game that needs dozens of hours of investment in a playthru (god damn when there were no save compatibility... well I don't know now, I stop playing in early year last update), Anyway, I lost track. A game that needs dozens of hours of investment in playing, infinite repetitive dialogues and go here and there trying to find what to do, that makes you some little (very little) choices that excludes other very little part of the game. For one part, you play a game that requieres 30 hours to complete and you can fuck almost everyone, but there are two people you cannot fuck? I don't feel like using saves is a part of a game.... But well, STS saga is a game that is changing since some time so maybe in the future it has more sense. But no... Too much investment in one playthru to justify making another playthru just to see a bit (then, of course, I use the save to see it, but as I cannot play in two saves at the same time, I'm really blocked from a petite portion of the game), that as some of you say, looks just to give a "gamey chocey" feeling.
My game for example is heavy on story branching choices, and the only regret I have is that the first release has way less content for some choices than anothers (because makes sense plot wise, some consequences are more important in a short span than in a long span, eventually they will match up) up to the point that I felt that I had to put a disclaimer as Segnbora said... at least to say "Take in consideration that depending on what choice you make, you will see more content or less in this first release".
They're are very little things, but gives some authenticity to relations, specially beyond the point of new cutscenes about those characters.
It is clear anyway that there are gonna be players that prefer games where you can get all in a playthru (for example, I find of not good taste in summertime saga (I game I really like as a porn game), a game that needs dozens of hours of investment in a playthru (god damn when there were no save compatibility... well I don't know now, I stop playing in early year last update), Anyway, I lost track. A game that needs dozens of hours of investment in playing, infinite repetitive dialogues and go here and there trying to find what to do, that makes you some little (very little) choices that excludes other very little part of the game. For one part, you play a game that requieres 30 hours to complete and you can fuck almost everyone, but there are two people you cannot fuck? I don't feel like using saves is a part of a game.... But well, STS saga is a game that is changing since some time so maybe in the future it has more sense. But no... Too much investment in one playthru to justify making another playthru just to see a bit (then, of course, I use the save to see it, but as I cannot play in two saves at the same time, I'm really blocked from a petite portion of the game), that as some of you say, looks just to give a "gamey chocey" feeling.
My game for example is heavy on story branching choices, and the only regret I have is that the first release has way less content for some choices than anothers (because makes sense plot wise, some consequences are more important in a short span than in a long span, eventually they will match up) up to the point that I felt that I had to put a disclaimer as Segnbora said... at least to say "Take in consideration that depending on what choice you make, you will see more content or less in this first release".
Precisely I'm using that variables, I call them Emotions. usually is mostly just to make little changes to dialogue depending on the mood (that is generated because you maybe piss her off, or to her friend, or wathever), so you have a little moment to fix things, or just she doesn't want to see that day and tomorrow she will ok again.
They're are very little things, but gives some authenticity to relations, specially beyond the point of new cutscenes about those characters.
To respond to the OP's question: yes. Yes, you can indeed fuck up implementing choice into your game, and that can make the game worse. That being said, when well done it can also (but does not necessarily!) make a game better. But whether a dev should choose to implement a particular type of choice in their game or not probably depends more on what they want to make and their skillset, rather than on there being an objective fact of whether a particular type of choice mechanic is good or not.