Ren'Py Apartment #69 [v0.08] [Luxee]

[Rutonat]

Actually, that brings up one reason you might see someone against Nea here who is not against trans in general. Some people don't like there being a second dick besides the player character's, it leads to the thought process that the other character might steal a LI from the player character, which is stealing from the player by Extension, NTR in other words. In cases like this, trans doesn't even come into play, the character having a dick at all is the issue no matter if they are trans or not. These people would do the same for another cis guy being in the game.

Most of the hateful reactions to Nea are very most likely driven by a slanted view of trans people. Because for a lot of those, dick = male, so male x male = gay, and their brain goes full tilt into "I'M NOT FUCKING GAY ! GET THIS GAY SHIT AWAY FROM ME !" mode.
They don't want to consider that trans people aren't just 0s or 1s, male of female, and would rather decide that genitalia dictactes gender. That's the whole issue trans people face on a daily basis. People don't want to understand anything past "what's in your pants ? A dick ? Then you're a guy, no matter what you call yourself, you're a gay guy".
At first, that type of reaction made me sad. However, when it slides into comments like "Hide this disgusting shit", that just straight up pisses me off.

Respect isn't something inherent. It's earned. If you don't respect other people, you don't deserve respect yourself.

That's the difference between people like him and you. You don't like trans characters, but you don't ask for Nea to be hidden or cut off from the game, nor do you come here to joyfully celebrate the bad end of her route. Because you have respect. Which means your opinion deserves respect in turn.

Also, about the NTR vibe, with how much Nea's into the MC and the MC alone, it would take one bloody hell of an illogical 180° to end up having Nea stealing anyone. But I do understand that trans haters won't even read, they likely close the game right then and there and come here to trashtalk.
I mean, it's not like there's over half a dozen PURE FEMALES CHARACTERS to choose from on the side...

 

[Deleted member 4771066]

Alright, I'm going to attempt to be diplomatic & play peacemaker here...

Under my past couple of accounts, I've made NO effort to hide my disdain for Nea. I don't have the slightest of anything "PC" in my body, which is the way it's been my entire life.

People here have very strong objections and inclusive opinions on Nea. I, for one, am not on the latter's side at all. It was made worse when I heard that Luxee was adding more to the masseuse scenes in PL, which is again, another character I don't give a shit about.

I do, though, have to give Luxee a lot of credit for moving to make Nea a central figure in this game, rather than just a masseuse background-type character that we got in PL. I've ignored Nea all but once, and that one time was to kill her off after I saw a screenie of it several months ago in this thread. I DO hate the fact that she's a centerpiece in this game, where many other routes depend on, especially Evie's. I think three other girls in this game depends on progress with her, and that is what makes her just flat out annoying and aggravating to me.

I couldn't give a fuck about her in this game, and if I have to deal a certain scene in this game that I don't like just to be able to whack her out and get her out of the game I will. It's a small price to pay, but not knowing where Luxee will go with it if players do intend to knock her off has me curious; how will the school react, and the people closest to the MC?

Nea is one of the most controversial figures in these VNs I've ever seen, and people here have immensely strong opinions about her, either positive or negative. Players are going to hate her, others are going to fawn over her.

Let sleeping dogs lie and let's move on. I know it's going to start all over again once 0.07 is released, as it will in the PL thread once 1.1 is released when the masseuse has added scenes (still very unnecessary in my eyes)

Arguing back and forth about this is not helping anyone. I've avoided this thread a lot only because I don't want to deal with all the Nea talk, whether good or bad, which is basically all you read here. Like there aren't any other characters in the game but her?

Anyway, that's my say. Agree or disagree all you want. I don't give a shit. I'll just ignore people coming up against me either way.

 

[Ifartedtoolong]

Added a new one to the list so I don't have to worry about future posts from them.

 

[alex2011]

Most of the hateful reactions to Nea are very most likely driven by a slanted view of trans people. Because for a lot of those, dick = male, so male x male = gay, and their brain goes full tilt into "I'M NOT FUCKING GAY ! GET THIS GAY SHIT AWAY FROM ME !" mode.
They don't want to consider that trans people aren't just 0s or 1s, male of female, and would rather decide that genitalia dictactes gender. That's the whole issue trans people face on a daily basis. People don't want to understand anything past "what's in your pants ? A dick ? Then you're a guy, no matter what you call yourself, you're a gay guy".
At first, that type of reaction made me sad. However, when it slides into comments like "Hide this disgusting shit", that just straight up pisses me off.

Respect isn't something inherent. It's earned. If you don't respect other people, you don't deserve respect yourself.

That's the difference between people like him and you. You don't like trans characters, but you don't ask for Nea to be hidden or cut off from the game, nor do you come here to joyfully celebrate the bad ned of her route. Because you have respect. Which means your opinion deserves respect in turn.

Also, about the NTR vibe, with how much Nea's into the MC and the MC alone, it would take one bloody hell of an illogical 180° to end up having Nea stealing anyone. But I do understand that trans haters won't even read, they likely close the game right then and there and come here to trashtalk.
I mean, it's not like there's over half a dozen PURE FEMALES CHARACTERS to choose from on the side...

Those quotes sound exactly like what I was talking about with people not wanting another dick in games they play, it is less about the character being trans and more about the character having a dick, in which case a cis male character would get the same reaction. In cases like that first part, it doesn't matter who the character is (with exceptions for the obvious trans backlash against Nea in some comments), the players that don't like it see a dick and that's all they need to see to say no to the character. Eric from PL got the same response minus the obvious trans oriented backlash of a few of the comments that are against Nea and he was there for one single scene.

That 180 does happen, regularly. Some of the anti-NTR crowd do it automatically the second they see there's another dick or even the mere mention of a male other than the player character. I get it, they don't like it, but come on, they literally start thread wars over that crap.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

Most of the hateful reactions to Nea are very most likely driven by a slanted view of trans people. Because for a lot of those, dick = male, so male x male = gay, and their brain goes full tilt into "I'M NOT FUCKING GAY ! GET THIS GAY SHIT AWAY FROM ME !" mode.
They don't want to consider that trans people aren't just 0s or 1s, male of female, and would rather decide that genitalia dictactes gender. That's the whole issue trans people face on a daily basis. People don't want to understand anything past "what's in your pants ? A dick ? Then you're a guy, no matter what you call yourself, you're a gay guy".
At first, that type of reaction made me sad. However, when it slides into comments like "Hide this disgusting shit", that just straight up pisses me off.

Respect isn't something inherent. It's earned. If you don't respect other people, you don't deserve respect yourself.

That's the difference between people like him and you. You don't like trans characters, but you don't ask for Nea to be hidden or cut off from the game, nor do you come here to joyfully celebrate the bad ned of her route. Because you have respect. Which means your opinion deserves respect in turn.

Also, about the NTR vibe, with how much Nea's into the MC and the MC alone, it would take one bloody hell of an illogical 180° to end up having Nea stealing anyone. But I do understand that trans haters won't even read, they likely close the game right then and there and come here to trashtalk.
I mean, it's not like there's over half a dozen PURE FEMALES CHARACTERS to choose from on the side...

Nea seems to me to be a very well-crafted character, in fact, she is possibly the most elaborated on an emotional level. The bad thing is that I'm not interested in a romance with her, so in my case her content is over. A shame, because her story was good, and I think the friendship could have worked well too.

On the other hand, I don't see NTR in this game, in fact there is nothing even remotely like NTR.

 

[Badjourasmix]

I can understand if people are not into Nea, we all have our own preferences. But I don't get why someone would hate her. It was really weird to me seeing people celebrating her death. Let's take away the whole gender thing. People were basically celebrating someone killing themselves after enduring years of being bullied. That is just bizarre to me.

 

[Spatenklopper]

I don't care about trans people in a romantic sense and that's the only thing that really bothers me here.
We weren't given the choice.

Either we get into a romantic relationship with Nea, which I really don't like, or it happens like it came to the end of 0.6.
Why not a friendly relationship, that's probably something we'll never know.

 

[Rutonat]

That 180 does happen, regularly. Some of the anti-NTR crowd do it automatically the second they see there's another dick or even the mere mention of a male other than the player character. I get it, they don't like it, but come on, they literally start thread wars over that crap.

Thiking Luxee would make that 180° to NTR with Nea would require to really not have any faith in their skill. Even ignoring Nea's route, the whole writting tend to mostly be pretty realistic, and a lovestruck young trans girl suddenly going from absolute and deep love to "fuck you actually I'm stealing all your girls" would make absolutement nosense whatesoever on top of being deeply unrealistic...
But then again, I doubt transphobic people would care about that since recognizing it would strip them of an argument. Which is both sad and pathetic, in my opinion.

At least I'm glad to see some people come out of the shadow with respectful opinions even while not liking Nea.
I'm not saying everyone should love her. We all have different tastes. But there's a world between "I don't like her" and "He shouldn't fucking exist, I fucking love killing his gay ass".
Good on you, people. You're good eggs.

I can understand if people are not into Nea, we all have our own preferences. But I don't get why someone would hate her. It was really weird to me seeing people celebrating her death. Let's take away the whole gender thing. People were basically celebrating someone killing themselves after enduring years of being bullied. That is just bizarre to me.

They hate her because of transphobia. Sadly a lot of people can't accept a world not comprised of 1s and 0s, male and female only. And I'm not even gonna mention those who grew up in deeply religious backgrounds. That's a whole otehr can of worms.

I sadly don't have the link anymore, but someone around these parts linked (in another thread) a very interesting video of a trans woman talking about why dating, or even having sex with a trans woman doesn't mean the guy is gay. And as she was saying, sadly a very big number of guys can't wrap their heads around it. Or won't. Some don't even want to try, after all.
That's human nature for you. It's easier to show hate and agression towards shit you don't understand rather than take a few minutes to think about it.

I don't care about trans people in a romantic sense and that's the only thing that really bothers me here.
We weren't given the choice.

Either we get into a romantic relationship with Nea, which I really don't like, or it happens like it came to the end of 0.6.
Why not a friendly relationship, that's probably something we'll never know.

I don't know the timing of the update that brought the bad end, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that was Luxee's answer to transphobic and hateful comments about a character that, obviously, Luxee loved very much (pretty obvious seeing the care and deppth of her writing).

 

[Spatenklopper]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was Luxee's answer to transphobic and hateful comments about a character

That would honestly make it even more incomprehensible.

Fuck her in the ass or she jump?
That's not how you deal with transphobia and that's not how you get people to really deal with it.
Since the earlier course of the story with the dislike by her father and the bullying at school was the far better way.

 

[Badjourasmix]

They hate her because of transphobia. Sadly a lot of people can't accept a world not comprised of 1s and 0s, male and female only. And I'm not even gonna mention those who grew up in deeply religious backgrounds. That's a whole otehr can of worms.

I sadly don't have the link anymore, but someone around these parts linked (in another thread) a very interesting video of a trans woman talking about why dating, or even having sex with a trans woman doesn't mean the guy is gay. And as she was saying, sadly a very big number of guys can't wrap their heads around it. Or won't. Some don't even want to try, after all.
That's human nature for you. It's easier to show hate and agression towards shit you don't understand rather than take a few minutes to think about it.

Being 100% honest 10 years ago I would've been one of those people that think having sex with a trans woman is gay but that was because I was just out of highschool and still cared a lot about what other people thought about me. Now I don't really give a fuck, if I am attracted to the person I'll do it.

 

[Rutonat]

That would honestly make it even more incomprehensible.

Fuck her in the ass or she jump?
That's not how you deal with transphobia and that's not how you get people to really deal with it.
Since the earlier course of the story with the dislike by her father and the bullying at school was the far better way.

No, what I meant was that, I wouldn't be surprised, seeing the amount, and mostly intensity of the transphobic backlash, Luxee had put an extreme end to Nea's route as a sort of "Ho yeah, you hate different people that much ? You happy now ? After all, you're saying she doesn't deserve to exist, right ?" type of reaction.
Not saying it's the right reaction to have... but as a hotblooded person who tend to get very pissed very fast when I see those comments, I can understand the mental track needed to get to that.

But I could also be wrong. I'm just theorizing, since it seems to me that Luxee deeply love Nea's character.

 

[Badjourasmix]

I think that now that Nea and the mc are in a relationship and her father seems like he won't stop being an asshole. She should just move in with the mc.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

Thiking Luxee would make that 180° to NTR with Nea would require to really not have any faith in their skill. Even ignoring Nea's route, the whole writting tend to mostly be pretty realistic, and a lovestruck young trans girl suddenly going from absolute and deep love to "fuck you actually I'm stealing all your girls" would make absolutement nosense whatesoever on top of being deeply unrealistic...
But then again, I doubt transphobic people would care about that since recognizing it would strip them of an argument. Which is both sad and pathetic, in my opinion.

I honestly don't see how the NTR could fit into Nea's story, unless another character who is interested in her romantically shows up. To think that Nea is going to steal the LIs from the MC seems absolutely silly to me.

I sadly don't have the link anymore, but someone around these parts linked (in another thread) a very interesting video of a trans woman talking about why dating, or even having sex with a trans woman doesn't mean the guy is gay. And as she was saying, sadly a very big number of guys can't wrap their heads around it. Or won't. Some don't even want to try, after all.
That's human nature for you. It's easier to show hate and agression towards shit you don't understand rather than take a few minutes to think about it.

Here a famous soccer player was dating (a year or so) a famous trans woman, and he is perfectly heterosexual (he later married several times and has had several children).

No, what I meant was that, I wouldn't be surprised, seeing the amount, and mostly intensity of the transphobic backlash, Luxee had put an extreme end to Nea's route as a sort of "Ho yeah, you hate different people that much ? You happy now ? After all, you're saying she doesn't deserve to exist, right ?" type of reaction.
Not saying it's the right reaction to have... but as a hotblooded person who tend to get very pissed very fast when I see those comments, I can understand the mental track needed to get to that.

But I could also be wrong. I'm just theorizing, since it seems to me that Luxee deeply love Nea's character.

I don't know, I personally don't like any of the options he's brought up: Her jumping is sad and certainly has to have a negative impact on the story. But I'm also not interested in romance (and, obviously, the sex scenes that go along with it). As the sex scenes with Nea aren't going to be to my liking, I prefer the first option out of sheer practical decision: As I say, she is a fictional character, and as sad as what happens, I prefer to avoid romance and sex scenes.

 

[Rutonat]

I don't know, I personally don't like any of the options he's brought up: Her jumping is sad and certainly has to have a negative impact on the story. But I'm also not interested in romance (and, obviously, the sex scenes that go along with it). As the sex scenes with Nea aren't going to be to my liking, I prefer the first option out of sheer practical decision: As I say, she is a fictional character, and as sad as what happens, I prefer to avoid romance and sex scenes.

Well, yes. Because you're a decent human being, with enough humanity left to not jump the gun straight to "I don't like her so she should die".
Sadly, among the people that aren't fans of Nea, you're in a minority.
Yet, for your temperance, acceptation of differences and open-mindedness, as a Nea fan, I thank you, Good Egg.

 

[Spatenklopper]

And that's why I'm honestly concerned.
Nea is a polarizing character, without question, but when you look at the admittedly short description of the game and the tags, I really wonder if everything that was/is "promised" to us here is true.

Whether it is the right way to make Nea the main character, who has to be romanticized, is in my opinion neither fair to the game nor to the users and also not to the fictional character of Nea and the people she represents in the game.
At some point in 0.7 we will see where this leads and then I will consider whether I want to continue along this path or whether it will end there for me.

Would be a shame because I really liked the game but where it looks like where it is going is not for me.

 

[Rutonat]

And that's why I'm honestly concerned.
Nea is a polarizing character, without question, but when you look at the admittedly short description of the game and the tags, I really wonder if everything that was/is "promised" to us here is true.

Whether it is the right way to make Nea the main character, who has to be romanticized, is in my opinion neither fair to the game nor to the users and also not to the fictional character of Nea and the people she represents in the game.
At some point in 0.7 we will see where this leads and then I will consider whether I want to continue along this path or whether it will end there for me.

Would be a shame because I really liked the game but where it looks like where it is going is not for me.

The description was very likely written before the current version, you know. It's pretty rare that devs have everything already planned and written down in detail right from version 0.01.

 

[Spatenklopper]

Of course I know that.
But that doesn't change the fact that Nea has mutated into the main character here and I don't think that does the game justice.
Why the slow building relationships with the sisters, with the "black beauty" or very slowly with Mom, when it feels like everything is being thrown overboard for Nea and the remaining characters are downgraded to side actors?
It just feels wrong, at least to me.

 

[Badjourasmix]

I think the main "problem" with the game is that the updates are very small so you can only progress the story with a few characters. There has been a huge focus on Nea but I am sure all the other characters will get the same love in future updates.

 

[Rutonat]

Of course I know that.
But that doesn't change the fact that Nea has mutated into the main character here and I don't think that does the game justice.
Why the slow building relationships with the sisters, with the "black beauty" or very slowly with Mom, when it feels like everything is being thrown overboard for Nea and the remaining characters are downgraded to side actors?
It just feels wrong, at least to me.

Or you're thinking about it the wrong way.
I guess you're expecting every route to progress at the same time, at the same speed, which is something that pretty much never happens in those types of games. For now, nea's route is the most developped one. Later, Luxee will work on another one. Then another one. And so on and so forth.
Just because Nea has more content now doesn't mean she's the main character and the others are thrown away. That just means Luxee had a clearer idea for her right now, and so they worked on her, rather than delay updates until they knew clearly what to do with the other ones.

As for the "everything depends on Nea", might I remind you that Millie depends on the little sister ? And likely, both sisters will depend on the mom since she's playing matchmaker... When the universe is constructed in a manner that makes it realistic, it's normal that characters will know each other in some capacity. If everything was fully separated, it would feel rather like multiple gmaes lazily slapped into one.
Having them interact and impact each other, in my opinion, makes the world way more lived in a believable.

 

[wanderingwolfgod]

Just a note from my perspective, I love Nea. I think she's a really great character, I love how fleshed out her story is, and I find her absolutely adorable. When I first came across her as an LI, I was excited.

However, as a person, I do hate how she's either an LI or dead. The lack of just a friendship option is one I hope gets changed later down the line. Not even for the people that just hate trans/hate this specific character, but because, honestly, MCs in these kinds of games need more friends that they aren't sleeping with and I could see Nea being a great friend to just hang out with after school or when the LIs are busy with other things (because stories where the LIs can't do anything without the MC is weird and ridiculous).

Again, just my own two farthings worth.