Dragon59

Conversation Conqueror
Apr 24, 2020
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That's actually interesting because hatred is indeed a form of aknowledgement, compared to indifference which is the opposite. Since she can't have MC love her anymore, she might see this aknowledgement as some kind of reward. Being aknowledged even negatively could make her feel better than being ignored and feel like she doesn't exist (like you said). The issue being that MC hate her because she's being (and has been) bad. Therefore, hating her might be seen as a reward for being bad, which would be totally counterproductive for every characters involved. Being hateful towards her could then not only prevent her from becoming better (and even make her worse and more dangerous) but also prevent MC from healing because he let anger consume him instead of moving on.

It's also on point that real mockery comes from a place of distanciation and not from a place of hatred or judgement. It's fun when it's disengaging, but it's not fun when someone tries to soil the joke with an opinion. For example, I laughed hard at MC imagining her falling off the window, not because I wanted that to be real but precisely because I didn't. It's a distanciation not only from her, but also from MC's anger towards her. Same when Kindra starts to fight her, just the way he pretends to call for help but doesn't seem to care is hilarious (if you make that choice I mean). It comes from anger and disgust towards her, but it's funny because there's a clear disengagement of the situation and his own feelings that allow him to express them without actually being an ass (he's not the one attacking her, but he doesn't care if Kindra hurt her).

Anywho, there's a line between mocking and being hateful, and I think Digi B nailed it.

I think sabotaging her "evil schemes" while having MC just be distant and indifferent towards her while still expressing his bad feelings (with mockery, or by embarrassing her for example) is the best way to go about it, at least until she does something worth pat-patting (if she ever), and we can choose to pat-pat her for it.

But for now she's still trying to screw MC over in order to save her own job so we're at that point.
That made me think of "I could care less," vs. "I couldn't care less."
Hatefucking her would tell give the impression that the MC still cares, however little, however twisted.
The alternative path definitely says, "I couldn't care less about you."
That's what trauma does if you let it. It multiplies. Also I agree, it would be best for the MC to stay far away from Cassie, she would very likely hurt him again because she has not taken complete ownership of her actions. And she probably doesn't know everything that happened to the MC in the past three years.
I don't know if there's going to be a redemption arc for Cassie... but the stuff she did is SO bad, and she probably knows there's no coming back from this.
Sounds like Sméagol's redemption arc....such as it was.
 
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Dragon59

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Apr 24, 2020
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I've watched / read / played a lot of fictions, have a lot of imagination, and I study psychology. A redemption arc is pretty easy for me to envision. All one has to do is to see the characters for everything they are, and not put them in a box of evilness for the sake of hating them. Of course it only works with well-written characters. Usually, a redemption arc plays on rewarding the good traits of a character and punishing the bad ones. For example, Cassie might be selfish and jealous (bad traits) but she's also driven and determined (good traits). She wants to succeed (good traits) but she want to do it by herself and don't care about crushing people in her way (bad traits). She cared about someone else (good trait) but she was so afraid of getting hurt that she hurt him first (bad traits). There's probably more to say (like I said I need to replay the game to assess her character more clearly, I've only played the game twice).

But anyway a redemption arc works like any character progression : you take what the character want and what they don't want, and then you give them what they want ONLY IF they "become better", and you give them what they don't want (or prevent them for getting what they want) if they insist on staying "bad". You reward the good and punish the bad. This way they'll become better on their own, through story progression. I mean there's a lot more to it (for example I could write an entire chapter about the power balance between characters : did you notice that a "bad" guy always lose power and control before they become good ?). But anyway all that to say it's totally doable.

However, I understand that people who can't or refuse to see the good traits of a character would have a very hard time envisionning a "redemption arc" or even just a character developpement for said character.

Sure, but I'm more familiar with how easy people put other people into boxes in order to hate them instead of trying to understand and actually fix the issue. I mean it's not that bad here because we're talking about a character in a game, but sometimes it still annoys me. You don't win against a narcissistic psychopath by hating them, you win by outsmarting them and that means understanding them first. That, or just avoiding them entirely and not letting them get to you. Hatred is just a sign that whoever abused someone got to them, and it prevents healing.

Yes, and yes. That's it, I just agree with that.
And even if she doesn't have a redemption arc it's fine by me. As long as she gets "punished" for all the bitchy thing she does. The embarrasment on TV was very fun to watch, as was Kindra fighting her or MC imagining throwing her out the window. Again, I'm not here painting her as a good person, just an interesting character worth talking about.

Like dd82 said, that's what trauma does. Trauma make people become the cause of the abuse and pass that abuse onto others, which create a cycle of abuse. I mean, if people here were talking about a real person, the hate would be a case of abuse. I know it might be difficult for a lot to understand, but there's a way to mock others without actually being mean.

It's not about trust, it's about not hating. It's about judging the actions and not the person. It's about healing ourselves instead of letting hate consume us. It's about ignoring or mocking things to not let them affect us badly anymore, instead of being vengeful and bitter about it.

Plus people who continues the cycle won't either aknowledge the harm they're causing if everyone around them is being an asshole to them. Stopping them from harming others is good, helping them become better is great. Avoiding them is fine too I guess but it's not possible in some cases. However, revenge is a fool's errand (kudo if you have the reference, I realize this is a long shot).

Anyway, it's not like the haters are writting the story. Seeing the flashbacks and some scenes with Cassie makes me think that whatever happens to her won't be just out of some missplaced hatred for the character. The whole "getting punished for doing bad things" is on point (like I said with the embarrassement on TV and stuff). If she keeps losing and then get rewarded when she actually do something good, a redemption arc would be very plausible. If not and she stays bad, then I'll enjoy watching her lose and not get what she wants. I won't even romance her if there's a possibility to do so, I just don't think she deserves to die or be abused back.
I don't remember "Fool's errand," but I know "First dig two graves." EDIT: I've never played Red Dead Redemption, though I see it is also mentioned in regards to Hamlet.

Regarding my own abuser, I don't know if I hated him. It was complex because he got me my first job and was friendly with me in our adulthood. I do know I felt a relief when I heard my uncle was dead. I expect it was related, but it was around that time that I started be more up-front with my deviance from the norm.

In my ex-wife's case (she was pushed to multiple personalities by her abuse), when word reached her that her uncle had died, she laughed hysterically for many minutes.

Admittedly, our histories will have an effect on the stories we write. For one thing, she won't participate in an incest story, no matter how consensual. I'm not likely to write one, so that's not probably not going to be a problem. I expect our histories with abuse will inform our stories, either by avoiding some plotlines, or by using our experience to tell a story.
 

Cabin Fever

Engaged Member
Nov 23, 2018
3,165
5,225
View attachment 2689788



Hey everyone!

Sending this DevLog a day early. A few weeks ago, I mentioned seeing a keratoconus specialist. This Tuesday I'll be taking a day trip with a buddy of mine to see them and to do a proper pentacam scan on my eyeballs. And the requirement is I have to not wear my contacts 48 hours prior. Fret not, that doesn't mean I won't be sitting around doing nothing (that would bore me to death). Instead, I'll be working on code. Typos are easy to fix but if I work on any renders without my contacts, it'll be a pain to load up the scene(s), correct any that had issues and throw it back in the oven.

I apologize for the font size change. I'm still working on a method to adjust the font in-game via the options. Why it's taking me some time is because there are several things to consider when implementing this. The font size changes when a character either raises or lowers their voice. Additionally, I have to keep in mind the amount of text that fits in the text box. So, I'll need to review the font sizes and make sure the dialogue fits within text box regardless of the size. So lots of variables to consider on this feature to insure it is implemented correctly. For now, you can (when the game is running) press "a" and that will bring up the accessibility menu. From there one of the options is to adjust the font size. Keep in mind this might skew some of the UI due to the enlarged text.

Lastly, I understand some would like an estimated timeframe of the release. When working on CH5, I did my best to try to make it a short chapter due to getting things setup for Steam and re-coding some of the game for this release. I even considered trimming more fat by removing some LI content which I ultimately decided not to. Though future titles I'll be limiting romance options to about 4-5 (there are currently 9 in Artemis). This way I can give more depth to the characters and their personal stories. But I digress. The reason I haven't given a timeframe is because it just leads to disappointment. Things can happen and deadlines can be missed and that will only upset some people, including myself. Even on release day, I was a few hours late and there were comments piling up and this only distracted me instead of keeping focus on the release. And release days are always stressful for any developer.

That said though, only 5 scenes remain to be posed and rendered. Two of these scenes require custom locations that I hadn't gotten to importing yet. Fortuantely, I'm surrounded by great friends in this community. Puggy, co-dev of Hellcat Lounge, has offered to help with this and of course I gladly accepted to help keep momentum going. Thanks Puggy!

That's all for this week!

Be safe and be well.

- digi.B
Jeez, digi.B really need to work on their phrasing.

"I won't be sitting around doing nothing" is good.

"That doesn't mean I won't be sitting around doing nothing" means they possibly won't be doing anything, which is bad.

I'm just waiting for the haters to come charging in and claim digi.B has admitted to milking finally. :cautious:
 

comte bonfim

Member
Nov 13, 2021
110
206
Is the info on whose LI's will be available after the whole change in the roster the dev talked about? From 9 to 4~5 is a big jump, do we have the names already or is this something the dev will announce later on?

Please let us have Reina, Reina and Junebug is all I ask.
 
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JohnF95zone

Engaged Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,016
3,495
Is the info on whose LI's will be available after the whole change in the roster the dev talked about? From 9 to 4~5 is a big jump, do we have the names already or is this something the dev will enclose/announce later on?
From what I understand from the Patreon post here is that digi.B will limit the LIs to only 4 or 5 for his future games, not for this game Artemis.
I even considered trimming more fat by removing some LI content which I ultimately decided not to. Though future titles I'll be limiting romance options to about 4-5 (there are currently 9 in Artemis). This way I can give more depth to the characters and their personal stories.
 

comte bonfim

Member
Nov 13, 2021
110
206
From what I understand from the Patreon post here is that digi.B will limit the LIs to only 4 or 5 for his future games, not for this game Artemis.
Oh thank you, I thought we were dropping a few LI's in this game aswell, might've read that wrong going through the message a few pages back. Thank you.
 
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Elhemeer

Forum Fanatic
Jun 20, 2022
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Is the info on whose LI's will be available after the whole change in the roster the dev talked about? From 9 to 4~5 is a big jump, do we have the names already or is this something the dev will announce later on?

Please let us have Reina, Reina and Junebug is all I ask.
From what I understand from the Patreon post here is that digi.B will limit the LIs to only 4 or 5 for his future games, not for this game Artemis.
From what I've seen, the only character that may have been moved from potential LI to non-LI was Zoe. I have no idea why, I'm not sure if it was explained, nor do I know if she was ever actually a potential LI, but she was definitely left off the list when the "9" were announced.

BTW, Both of your favorites are still there, so you don't have to worry about that.
 

drifter139

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2019
1,618
1,504
Oh thank you, I thought we were dropping a few LI's in this game aswell, might've read that wrong going through the message a few pages back. Thank you.
it's normal to read that and assume it was happening in this game. dev might be doing that in future games to decrease the workload since with so many LI's in this game, it takes longer to not only write the code but to also render scenes. again, most likely to lighten the workload
 

Ilhares

Engaged Member
Aug 19, 2019
2,908
11,065
Take a look at the Dataleaks option in the game.

The options are

1. Artemis
2. Kindra
3. June
4. Claire
5. Reina
6. Paige
7. Katy
8. Naomi
9. Zelda

Zoe and V are not part of those 9.
Aw, man. Does this rule out banging Katy's sister, too?
 
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