VN Ren'Py Abandoned Babysitting Cream: BetaMix Edition [v0.3.5] [Novilon]

[Pleevy]

ah ok, so I have to use Aval0nx's style for you to create the images.

By my understanding that's not 100% true...the way you tell AI generators to do can include style as well as weighting for a reference image...so even if you do it like you have been, they still should be usable as I understand it. Those more directly/actively involved may be able to clarify further.

 

[surugapervert]

It's honestly a shame that this has come down to using AI slop. I really wish it weren't the case but, at this point, I'd rather wait another 4 years for AvalonX than bear witness to AI

 

[shmurfer]

It's honestly a shame that this has come down to using AI slop. I really wish it weren't the case but, at this point, I'd rather wait another 4 years for AvalonX than bear witness to AI

People have been waiting for over a decade for AvalonX to even do anything to BSC. Wait if you want but some people just want it over and done with. AvalonX has been doing the patreon dev delays since before patreon

 

[MrFluffums]

By my understanding that's not 100% true...the way you tell AI generators to do can include style as well as weighting for a reference image...so even if you do it like you have been, they still should be usable as I understand it. Those more directly/actively involved may be able to clarify further.

Disclaimer: I'm still a n00b when it comes to Stable Diffusion, but I reckon trying to sketch in Aval0nx's style would help quite a bit.

Basically how AI img2img works is that it blurs the image, and tries to redraw it in a way it thinks is supposed to be the original. So if it doesn't need to change a lot, you blur the image very little and it spits out an image close to the original.

If you sketch in a completely different style than what you want, it needs to blur the image quite a bit, so your sketch also loses influence quite a bit on the final image.

I'm reasonably sure it would also help to roughly color in the sketch. Nothing too fancy, just if Sonic is supposed to be naked just give him a solid blue fill, and if he's supposed to wear clothes give him solid brown pants and solid black shirt.

And the reason why I think it might be especially convenient for group pictures is that a prompt like "cream the rabbit, Sonic, big blue dick" sometimes places a big blue dick on Cream instead of Sonic, and a sketch helps to put every bit where it belongs.

But tbh, this is all largely theoretical, as I said, I hardly tried to use sketches myself.

 

[PDP19]

Just a question...why are we using AI to copy AvalonX's style when its not even that great to begin with?

I think the current AI stuff is good enough. The closer the art is to the original sega design, the better in my opinion. Those sonic characters with real human body proportions always look weird to me.

 

[Pleevy]

It's honestly a shame that this has come down to using AI slop. I really wish it weren't the case but, at this point, I'd rather wait another 4 years for AvalonX than bear witness to AI

People have been waiting for over a decade for AvalonX to even do anything to BSC. Wait if you want but some people just want it over and done with. AvalonX has been doing the patreon dev delays since before patreon

I have to agree with Shmurfer (for the most part). If I were a gambler...I would bet you will be waiting for the rest of your life if you want that...but more power to you. Feel free to go download whatever version was still in develpment by them, and we'll do our thing here.
My one disagreement is the statement "some people just want it over and done with." That sounds negative and like its this terrible thing...I think I speak for most of us actively doing things that its more...we want to see a completed game come to fruition. Something that mirrors what we hoped for when we first came to know of it all those years ago in flash.

Disclaimer: I'm still a n00b when it comes to Stable Diffusion, but I reckon trying to sketch in Aval0nx's style would help quite a bit.
Basically how AI img2img works is that it blurs the image, and tries to redraw it in a way it thinks is supposed to be the original. So if it doesn't need to change a lot, you blur the image very little and it spits out an image close to the original.
If you sketch in a completely different style than what you want, it needs to blur the image quite a bit, so your sketch also loses influence quite a bit on the final image.
I'm reasonably sure it would also help to roughly color in the sketch. Nothing too fancy, just if Sonic is supposed to be naked just give him a solid blue fill, and if he's supposed to wear clothes give him solid brown pants and solid black shirt.
And the reason why I think it might be especially convenient for group pictures is that a prompt like "cream the rabbit, Sonic, big blue dick" sometimes places a big blue dick on Cream instead of Sonic, and a sketch helps to put every bit where it belongs.
But tbh, this is all largely theoretical, as I said, I hardly tried to use sketches myself.

N00b or not...you are more versed than many, and at least willing to discuss/try/use etc. I had never looked into HOW the img2img worked myself...this helps in some of the things I want to use AI for (unrelated) to understand that.

Just a question...why are we using AI to copy AvalonX's style when its not even that great to begin with?
I think the current AI stuff is good enough. The closer the art is to the original sega design, the better in my opinion. Those sonic characters with real human body proportions always look weird to me.

While I am not sure I follow your thoughts perfectly on what style you want...Part of the answer is multiple people working on it in different ways. SWP had indicated they were going to do imagery and they made some in the newest/fanciest style...they have been AWOL for some time from here now though...so in the absence of that continuation, others with different AI tools/skills have volunteered to make what they can, which is more based on the style of the existing images, but cleaner/brought up to date with AI, plus AI generation for new ones that never had the original styled graphics.

 

[shmurfer]

My one disagreement is the statement "some people just want it over and done with." That sounds negative and like its this terrible thing...I think I speak for most of us actively doing things that its more...we want to see a completed game come to fruition. Something that mirrors what we hoped for when we first came to know of it all those years ago in flash.

To be honest I'm not here for the game, I'm just here to see it completed instead of it murdering more devs.

 

[DiceAura]

The current discourse is disgusting. Who cares if it's AI art or not? It's an abandoned porn game being revived by a group of fan with enough dedication to do it. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on to other smut. There's plenty porn games to go around.

 

[Novaca]

I don't understand what these people have against AI.

I'm not a hypocrite for saying I know how to draw when I can barely draw a straight line.

But since you're so bothered by AI, go ahead and draw all the scenes.

We appreciate it.

What we want is to see this game finished and with new content and more game time.

If you didn't like it, fuck off and go hunt down your gang.

 

[Pleevy]

To be honest I'm not here for the game, I'm just here to see it completed instead of it murdering more devs.

Well...you must be a very rare outlier then. But hey, if that makes you happy...i guess we're here to help.

 

[Pleevy]

The current discourse is disgusting. Who cares if it's AI art or not? It's an abandoned porn game being revived by a group of fan with enough dedication to do it. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on to other smut. There's plenty porn games to go around.

Wait...there are other porn games? What have I been doing with my life? *Sarcasm*

 

[FoxyTails]

My one disagreement is the statement "some people just want it over and done with." That sounds negative and like its this terrible thing...I think I speak for most of us actively doing things that its more...we want to see a completed game come to fruition. Something that mirrors what we hoped for when we first came to know of it all those years ago in flash.

I totally agree - I've seen quite a few games 'abandoned' because a developer gives up - probably due to the many request of 'when the next update' etc, yet this game seems to have a fan following where the fans are at least willing to take up the slack & get it finished in some way while trying to keep to how they think the original should of been.

How many games have you seen where the fans are willing to do such a thing ?

No I DON'T want it 'over & done with' - I'd like to see the game fixed & eventually (hopefully) expanded on

I'm one of those fans I would like to help further with my limited skills, but part of the problem is knowing where to try & help without spoiling all the hard work the others are attempting. At least this time theres the possibility of a 'finished' game since the workload has been spread instead of just one person

 

[MrFluffums]

I don't understand what these people have against AI.

I can definitely see how people despise AI for commercial applications. It only exists because of rampant intellectual property theft, and I have no idea how anyone would be properly compensated now we can never put the genie back in the bottle.

But to complain about AI use for hobby use on a site that, at its core, is a piracy site is most definitely... an interesting choice of some people.

I'm one of those fans I would like to help further with my limited skills, but part of the problem is knowing where to try & help without spoiling all the hard work the others are attempting. At least this time theres the possibility of a 'finished' game since the workload has been spread instead of just one person

BTW Foxy, forgot to ask before: for CSS 0.4.0 is a thank you credit for the cheat system to FoxyTails okay, or do you prefer anonymous attribution for the cheat system idea?

 

[FoxyTails]

BTW Foxy, forgot to ask before: for CSS 0.4.0 is a thank you credit for the cheat system to FoxyTails okay, or do you prefer anonymous attribution for the cheat system idea?

Unlike some people - I don't mind a little credit where credit is due.
If I help in some way with anything it's nice to be recognised even if it's just a passing note like 'Cheat system based on an idea from Foxytails'

 

[Novaca]

I can definitely see how people despise AI for commercial applications. It only exists because of rampant intellectual property theft, and I have no idea how anyone would be properly compensated now we can never put the genie back in the bottle.

But to complain about AI use for hobby use on a site that, at its core, is a piracy site is most definitely... an interesting choice of some people.

I don't consider it piracy for a few reasons.
First: Aval0nx abandoned the project.
Second: We're not making a dime from this.
Third: I believe this game is already abandonware.

 

[ErisMonroe]

So is there finally development in BSC? Will we finally get a finished, and possibly an extended version of it?

 

[Pleevy]

BTW Foxy, forgot to ask before: for CSS 0.4.0 is a thank you credit for the cheat system to FoxyTails okay, or do you prefer anonymous attribution for the cheat system idea?

Unlike some people - I don't mind a little credit where credit is due.
If I help in some way with anything it's nice to be recognised even if it's just a passing note like 'Cheat system based on an idea from Foxytails'

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely believe in credit where credit is due...however...I also believe that sometimes what is being said/done/etc. is more valuable than who said/did/etc. it. And, anyone not wanting to be credited should be given that respect as their credit due them, IMO.

I can definitely see how people despise AI for commercial applications. It only exists because of rampant intellectual property theft, and I have no idea how anyone would be properly compensated now we can never put the genie back in the bottle.
But to complain about AI use for hobby use on a site that, at its core, is a piracy site is most definitely... an interesting choice of some people.

I don't consider it piracy for a few reasons.
First: Aval0nx abandoned the project.
Second: We're not making a dime from this.
Third: I believe this game is already abandonware.

Pretty sure he was referencing the whole F95 zone as a location for blatant piracy...not this little corner of it and the project we are working on. How would you pirate something being freely given away anyway?

As for the deeper AI content creation, that is a huge can of worms...and like you said...there's not stopping it once the genie is out of the bottle.

I totally agree - I've seen quite a few games 'abandoned' because a developer gives up - probably due to the many request of 'when the next update' etc, yet this game seems to have a fan following where the fans are at least willing to take up the slack & get it finished in some way while trying to keep to how they think the original should of been.
How many games have you seen where the fans are willing to do such a thing ?
No I DON'T want it 'over & done with' - I'd like to see the game fixed & eventually (hopefully) expanded on
I'm one of those fans I would like to help further with my limited skills, but part of the problem is knowing where to try & help without spoiling all the hard work the others are attempting. At least this time theres the possibility of a 'finished' game since the workload has been spread instead of just one person

So is there finally development in BSC? Will we finally get a finished, and possibly an extended version of it?

So, the answer is Yes...there is development. We have a sort of nebulous plan (I don't think anyone has formalized anything specific "on paper") of getting it to what we are calling V1.0. I am in fact working on content for the last two scenes in the guests file for the residual achievements that were listed as "in Dev" 'as we speak.' We have people making imagery (Enter the AI vs hand artwork discussion at your own risk) with intent to fill in a lot of the non graphic gaps. There have been other code improvements and bug fixes, and as I understand it, this last version allows for extending the gameplay time, which makes it easier for non-cheat plays to achieve more, as well as puts things in place for more/new content. There has been quite a bit of suggestion content for new stuff, which we will keep in mind for after "1.0."

Now...its still a hodgepodge group of individuals...none of us are committing to this full time, we all have lives around it...but yes...progress. Since we have 0.6 now..I suspect 0.7 will have the rest of the writing content for the guests and achievements complete. It will have more images, though still not complete...that's going to be a constant in progress every update. I suspect we will have something in place for the "core story"/"mystery ending" either in 0.8 or 0.9 and more images will be added as we go. We have not had a discussion about how graphically filled we will try to make it for an acceptable v1.0, but I suspect that will happen as we continue. Beyond that...and considering some of the stuff we have added thus far (More completed, but sometimes I went a little overboard...) I anticipate yes...there will be post 1.0 patches/content updates/DLC...whatever you want to call it.

 

[Ermollo]

I can definitely see how people despise AI for commercial applications. It only exists because of rampant intellectual property theft, and I have no idea how anyone would be properly compensated now we can never put the genie back in the bottle.

But to complain about AI use for hobby use on a site that, at its core, is a piracy site is most definitely... an interesting choice of some people.

From what I've seen, the main complaint about games with AI-generated images on this site is that they look like shit. It's not about copyright issues or intellectual property.
Most authors of these games just set up a standard model with porn LORA, generate a ton of images, layout it in renpy as a dull slideshow, and try to make money.

The bar for getting into this world has been lowered. Now, on top of the cheesy games with the standard models from DAZ3D\HS\KKS, we've also got totally soulless games with 2D AI.


So I get why some users are worried.
But, it doesn't give them the right to hate. It's enough to look at the current version to see that everyone involved in the game is doing their best.

 

[PDP19]

Just to throw my own hat into this discussion on AI art.

The discourse around AI art is flawed anyway because it can never truly replace real artists. There's a lot of subtle details that only experienced artists tend to spot, like good gestures, contrast, an eye for colour, or just very specific designs choices etc. Stuff that AI cannot easily do, because at the end its still at the mercy of the human that controls it. If anything, Im predicting that it would be real artists who will be more dependent on AI, just to speed up the process, especially background art.

The only real cause for concern is around copyright, but obviously for a non-profit passion project, its hardly an issue. We're not likely to see avalonX or anyone else come here with a cease and desist.

Besides which, whether or not anyone likes or hates it, its increasingly coming to a point where the normal human eye can spot AI art a mile away, further cheapening the product until better tech is introduced.

 

[MrFluffums]

Unlike some people - I don't mind a little credit where credit is due.
If I help in some way with anything it's nice to be recognised even if it's just a passing note like 'Cheat system based on an idea from Foxytails'

Perfect!

Pretty sure he was referencing the whole F95 zone as a location for blatant piracy...not this little corner of it and the project we are working on. How would you pirate something being freely given away anyway?

Exactly this