VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[NewTricks]

You'd almost think it was the Rise of Skywalker by how badly people have taken it. The main difference being that the interlude actually had a script.

Yet the complaints about both are largely the same. Something along the lines of "Why is this two-hour-long toy commercial trying to sell me girl's toys! I want my boy toys back!"

All jokes aside any interlude is supposed to represent a break in the action. For those that are invested in the story moving forward, it is natural that they will be discouraged and disgruntled. Myself, I wasn't particularly invested. I had an idle curiosity to see what would happen in the next part but I was hardly on pins and needles about it. I'm sure that Fuckface is covered in enough lube to slip his way out of this pickle he finds himself in just fine. So I found the trip to San Diego a welcome change of pace. Knowing not everybody was going to feel that way, I tried to just take Zoey's little story on its own merits and came to the conclusion that the interlude was more about setting up the ways she needed to grow and change as a person than actually demonstrating any growth or change. You know, so her story arc wouldn't be finished and she had something to do for the rest of the game. Yet this admittedly does have the effect of making the interlude anticlimactic and therefore unsatisfying. So it doesn't hurt my feelings that posters are not exactly being effusive in their praise of it. Like I said, before I was curious but now I am attentive so the interlude must have served some useful purpose.

 

[Melissa fan]

any interlude is supposed to represent a break in the action.

I think that is fine in a TV show to have an episode that focuses on one or two main or even minor characters where you have 10+ weeks of new episodes and at the end a big storyline is wrapped up but when you are waiting 7+ months for one day of content that only slightly moves the story forward it is very frustrating. The Breaking bad episode Fly is similar in that it didn't do much for the main story besides a bit of setup but we had 9 weeks of episodes before that and 3 weeks after. Whereas with the BaDIK interlude we didn't get any content before it for a couple of months or any after it for 7 months so far.

I don't think the interlude would have been as bad if we had at least 5 flashbacks in 5 different episodes getting to know Zoey and her relationship with the MC a bit first. As it was going into the interlude Zoey was basically just a new character that I didn't care about. After the interlude I still don't care about Zoey and I couldn't care less about her relationship with the MC. Even just having her show up and the start of episode flashback being Zoey tell the MC a bit of what she was up to when she was away and having parts of the interlude as short flashbacks throughout the episode with Zoey telling the MC what she was doing and a few flashbacks of the MC on his own thinking about his relationship with Zoey or telling another character like Derek, Jacob or Rusty about her.

Even cutting some of the Zoey stuff from the interlude and having 20% of the episode showing flashbacks of the MC with the DIKs and side characters getting to know their characters and their relationships to the MC better. Even if people disliked the episode and/or characters at least there would be breaks in the episode getting to know characters we have been following for 3 years better.

If DPC held back the interlude and released it a month or a few weeks before episode 9 I don't think it would get as much hate. Even if you hated the interlude and skipped the entire thing it would still have delayed episode 9 but at least it would only be a month wait at most to get back to the characters and story people loved. I know the name of the game is BaDIK and Zoey will be in future episodes but this was not BaDIK it was a new game with a character we have seen in a flashback.

My biggest problem with the interlude isn't really the delay it caused for episode 9 but introducing a basically new character into a now almost 4 year old game that already had a lot of wait time between episodes and has a lot of really good side characters that could use the time Zoey will be taking up. I think the time she takes up in episodes would be better spent on a solo Josy and solo Maya route for the people that don't like the 3 way relationship or one of the girls, side girls that we have already known for 4 years, the DIKs and their friendship with the MC or just not have the Zoey content and make the episodes and wait time between episodes shorter.

If DPC wanted to bring in someone new then there is always Melissa from Acting Lessons. That game had a few different endings one of them could be unseen in AL and be Melissa going to college.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I swear people have spent more time whining about the interlude in this thread alone than DPC has making it.

3 months versus 8 ... it's not like it's such a bold bet

 

[dalli_x]

As Ilhares said, the one thing BaDIK has made absolutely clear is that the MC is a complete communication null-zone whenever the plot demands it. If we can suffer through "Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. Fuck" for a poorly executed twist, the MC could roll with the abbreviated version of Zoey's vacation photos.

But more importantly, the Interlude didn't include the (present day) MC in the main action. Zoey's still going to have to explain all of this to him on screen so we can instruct him how to react to the news (unless we're in for a repeat of Episode 4's epic moping session). In the end the Interlude didn't save any time, at best it breaks even and at worst it dilutes the impact by making us play part of the combined sequence several months before we get to the important part.

The Interlude spends a lot of time going over trivial details, but it undersells the important parts (like Zoey's actual character growth). It's big because it's padded yet relies entirely on Episode 9 to make it mean anything. We'd have been far better off with a 5-ish minute montage to start Episode 9 and a few flashbacks when the MC and Zoey finally get together to compare notes. What we lost in volume we would more than make up from a tighter focus (to say nothing of saving development time). Instead of being distracted by a bunch of one-shot characters, we'd get to interact with Zoey as she answers our questions via our MC. Ideally we could also skip the bit about her only coming home because she's broke, too; that would make her a little more sympathetic.

You are making it too easy for yourself. DPC himself wrote that he did the interlude not only for technical reasons, but also so that we players would understand a context later.

The problem with an intro is that the player doesn't connect as much with the characters because they aren't interacting with them and are just reading a story instead of experiencing it. Also, we create Zoey's character ourselves to a certain extent. DIK or NEUTRAL. That's definitely not possible with an intro.

But given the discussions that DPC should have left it at the Zoey flashback from EP3, it clearly shows that DPC failed to bring the player closer to Zoey with that flashback. If Zoey is important to the overall story from the beginning, which I assume she is, DPC needed to create an emotional connection between the player and the character Zoey. It doesn't matter if the player's perception of the character Zoey is positive or negative. But the player is definitely emotionally closer to the character Zoey through Interlude.
DPC did everything right with Interlude as far as Zoey is concerned, and you are proof of that as well. What's worse, talking positively about a character or ranting about them? Not writing anything about a character.

DPC leaves us with a question in EP3 Zoey Flashback. Did the MC love Zoey or not? The Interlude shows us that he did love her and Zoey understands after over a year that she loves or misses the MC. Actually, at the end of the interlude, we still don't know if Zoey loves the MC or just misses him. Hence the interlude. I can very well imagine that our play style (Zoey DIK or Zoey NEUTRAL) will determine what Zoey's feelings are towards the MC in EP9.

After all, DPC told us what happened with Emma and Bret. Emma was separated from Bret just like Zoey was separated from the MC. Emma came back to Bret and they became friends. Zoey meets the MC in EP9. Will the MC give Zoey a kiss as a greeting, just like Emma would have wanted Bret to do? etc. Emma and Bret's story is actually the future story of Zoey and the MC, if we players allow that to happen through our choices. I don't think this is a trivial detail, because it is a decision-making tool for us players.

I also think that some characters from Interlude will interact with characters from BaDIK. Zoey told Bret at the end that not only will they talk to each other on the phone, but they can visit each other and even meet halfway. With Zoey back home, it will come to pass that the MC will meet the other characters from Interlude. At least we know which characters they are through Interlude.

I have already decided for myself which way my MC will go in regards to Zoey. Friendship yes, love no. And why? Zoey shows a tendency to run away from problems and not face them. To me, that's not a good foundation for a relationship. When you are in a relationship, your personal problem is also your partner's problem. But that's something everyone has to decide for themselves.

 

[georsak]

And thinking of DPC as a perfectionist he want to do it so that he is satisfied, not thinking of the waiting crowd (and not giving a fuck of all here not supporting him by being a patron).

I can certainly understand and respect that. It goes without saying that it's the creator's prerogative to keep working until they are satisfied with the result.
The counter argument would be that virtually every artist, be it author, musician or whatever, is never fully satisfied, and we all know many artists who state in interviews that they would change this or tweak that, when asked about previous works. If everyone was completely free of contracts or obligations we would have very little published artistic work.
It's the job of an agent or editor to bring the artist back to reality. Imagine an author having written a 50 chapter novel and at the time he should be thinking of an ending, he decides to add 10 more chapters, as DPC decided this late to add 1000 more renders. That's roughly 20% more content, I mean c'mon. Of course it's his right to do so, but any agent/publicist worth his salt would be all over his ass to wrap it up.

The thing is that DPC obviously has no agent and more importantly he has the luxury to indulge any idea that comes to him, as he continues to get paid. A band (not a superstar of course) didn't get paid any real money if they didn't put out an album in a timely fashion (when albums were a thing, I'm old ok?)

As everything in life, there are two sides on this coin. On the one hand, complete independance of the artist is of course a great thing. On the other, complete lack of obligations or ability to restrict themselves, increases the risk of works going on forever and never being completed.

 

[georsak]

Then he goes and says "a few more weeks" to know how many animations are left?

In a nutshell, that's exactly what got me disappointed and worried for the future

 

[georsak]

Like, nah bro it's cool. I'm gonna like it. We're all gonna like it. Just release the thing. We all appreciate your passion but I don't think most people are going to care about fucking in zero-g or something crazy technical about the animations when we've got to be alone with Zoey for half of the episode anyway.

Exactly this

 

[felicemastronzo]

You are making it too easy for yourself. DPC himself wrote that he did the interlude not only for technical reasons, but also so that we players would understand a context later.

Could he ever have said anything different?

"dear patreons, I don't want too many complaints when the new chapter comes out so I decided to test the save system first with an inflated story to make it self-sustaining"

or

"dear patreons, the new chapter, unlike hoped for, as usual will be huge so the time needed to finish it will go far beyond the usual time, hopefully in the year, so I decided to give you something to break the wait, but since I didn't have to waste too much time on it is the usual extended flashback with some extra content"

I would say no...the interlude is so narratively necessary that there is the only man-woman sex scene without MC. terrible sex scene with him more uncomfortable than MC during cum-petition. the only interesting part the cheering of the drunk girl

and to be sure Emma in addition to being ugly has also been made half-crazy, just in case, that you fall in love with anyone

 

[Cedroc1701]

Heh when I realized it was October I thought "I bet the people in the BaDik thread are getting rowdy."

Yup.

You'd think if there was one game where you could just relax and wait for the magic to happen, it'd be this one.


I, for one, enjoyed The Interlude, and Zoey went from the least explored to the most explored among the main cast, slightly ahead of Maya and Josie (with regards to backstory) so it was time well spent. It was also a good way to break up what is otherwise a rather linear progressing of the timeline (outside of the diary and a scant few flashbacks)

 

[felicemastronzo]

Regarding DPC's information message, I can only assume that he wants to keep expectations low in order to trigger an "aha" effect later.

You are leaving one thing out. We don't know the connection yet because it only becomes visible with EP9. That's why the interlude, because without the interlude in EP9, the connection would not be recognizable or would be more difficult to grasp.

After all, you can't take a ready-made cake out of the oven if you haven't mixed the ingredients together beforehand.

if there was no interlude there would have been a flashback, so something would have been told anyway, maybe less but it's not even certain

aside from Bella's flashback, the others gave me a lot of information anyway, it's work much better as a launch for the chapter being attached

I, for one, enjoyed The Interlude, and Zoey went from the least explored to the most explored among the main cast, slightly ahead of Maya and Josie (with regards to backstory) so it was time well spent. It was also a good way to break up what is otherwise a rather linear progressing of the timeline (outside of the diary and a scant few flashbacks)

I would say then that DPC has not done a great job on the 5 LIs in the last 4 years....

 

[Cedroc1701]

I would say then that DPC has not done a great job on the 5 LIs in the last 4 years....

I didn't say we didn't know anything about the others, just that Zoey is now (perhaps) more explored. I mean, we got an extended POV view at months of her life and know a lot about her current motivations and feelings. We know those things from most of the other LIs too, though more slowly like peeling layers off of an onion.

The other LIs also have more to reveal (especially Jill, Bella, Sage, and Quinn if we're counting her; I'm sure there's something left of the Maya/Josie backstory too, though it's less obvious)

Whereas Zoey is supposed to be more of a "known thing" to the MC, he's known her a long time. Think of all the other games that have the "old friend" character in them, and how isolated Fuckface is in comparison. This and the mom flashbacks are the only history we have on the MC. It was definitely needed from a story standpoint, even if some might prefer the lack of history to be able to 'self-insert' more easily.

She's a different kind of character, and lets not forget that her purpose in the story currently is to be a "bomb" from the past dropped into whatever is going on. You can't really slowly ramp that up, and I much prefer all of the context we have for her now, rather than her just swinging in like Mylie Cyrus on a wrecking Ball.

 

[znar25]

It has been awhile. Any new guesses on where the story might go with Sally?

 

[felicemastronzo]

I didn't say we didn't know anything about the others, just that Zoey is now (perhaps) more explored. I mean, we got an extended POV view at months of her life and know a lot about her current motivations and feelings. We know those things from most of the other LIs too, though more slowly like peeling layers off of an onion.

The other LIs also have more to reveal (especially Jill, Bella, Sage, and Quinn if we're counting her; I'm sure there's something left of the Maya/Josie backstory too, though it's less obvious)

Whereas Zoey is supposed to be more of a "known thing" to the MC, he's known her a long time. Think of all the other games that have the "old friend" character in them, and how isolated Fuckface is in comparison. This and the mom flashbacks are the only history we have on the MC. It was definitely needed from a story standpoint, even if some might prefer the lack of history to be able to 'self-insert' more easily.

She's a different kind of character, and lets not forget that her purpose in the story currently is to be a "bomb" from the past dropped into whatever is going on. You can't really slowly ramp that up, and I much prefer all of the context we have for her now, rather than her just swinging in like Mylie Cyrus on a wrecking Ball.

however you have seen the other LIs interacting with each other and with other characters that we "know" anyway

Sage talking to Quinn, to Maya, to Bella tells me a lot more (about both Sage and the others) than Zoey talking to Bret

furthermore, the syncopated narration of the interlude does not help me empathize with Zoey: she wants MC to come with her (extremely selfish) when it makes no sense for MC to lose the school year to follow a dream that is not his, then when the school year is over and he might come, she decides (based on the experience of people she practically does not know) that it is time to let him go (selfless) , then when she runs out of money (detail emphasized several times) she realizes it is time to return. a roller coaster of changes in ideas

by the end of the interlude Zoey's portrait is not so defined: she is an introvert, and then? little else

 

[inevitableandinfinity8]

Interestingly, I see such whining only on the F95 forum. Reddit fan page, (I don't like Reddit but I have to give them credit) there people are more restrained, I did not see there drama whining and shouting "why so long", "dev milking" and "blame the Interlude".
And judging by what I saw on Patreon, its subscribers respond adequately, the number of donators has been stable for several months within 11.5-13.5k subscribers. So there is no "collapse of subscribers". Only here there is such drama and all because he did not provide data on animations and suggested that he would have to do more animations. Just assumed.
There is a Kindergarten.

I kind of agree with you. Dr. Pink cake usually update information on updates, He never disappointed on end product and he shares art and more Yet more and more winning.

Personally because I am not paying for the game " I can share my point of view on what i like or not and what can be change for better " But saying he should release game on My pov , Would be a bitchy behaviour.

Only people which are paying for game should have a say in it, If updates are late or not.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

I kind of agree with you. Dr. Pink cake usually update information on updates, He never disappointed on end product and he shares art and more Yet more and more winning.

Personally because I am not paying for the game " I can share my point of view on what i like or not and what can be change for better " But saying he should release game on My pov , Would be a bitchy behaviour.

Only people which are paying for game should have a say in it, If updates are late or not.

Everyone should have the right to an opinion, even those who are not subscribed to Patreon. For many, this is simply unbearable financially, not everyone here is from the First World. But if people turned off their emotions and thought more before writing something, it would be great.
I basically understand why "so long". What I saw in the preview and in the Interlude - the game has grown in graphics and I imagine how huge the size of Episode 9 will be. I think at least 6-7 GB, the entire first season takes this size! The short Interlude took up 2.3 GB, which is unbelievable. It takes longer to process this amount of content and it would make sense for PinkCake to buy even more rendering hardware. If there is still free space for computers in his house.
Plus this problem with Friday Prophets, which stole one week to create the 0.83 patch and deal with the itch.to scammer, took another week. And someone else in the thread said that he had Covid.
What I see in his reports is enthusiasm and love for his creation, even to the point of fanaticism. So I don't think there is anything to worry about. The game will be released, albeit later than we expected. And people who make drama because of the delay for one or two months are just amateurs, they don’t know how it is to wait for STALKER 2 and Half-Life 3

 

[znar25]

"[...] I will know how many more animations I need within a few more weeks."

Agree. This is important. In a few more weeks he will know how many more, expensive in manhours, products he will need....

 

[znar25]

It’s pretty much what you would expect:


View attachment 2073951

Holy F'ing God. It is like a North Korea, Dear Leader cheerleading squad. I feel thankful that at least here there are some that can hammer though numbers and read stats to predict progress.

 

[Melissa fan]

You are leaving one thing out. We don't know the connection yet because it only becomes visible with EP9. That's why the interlude, because without the interlude in EP9, the connection would not be recognizable or would be more difficult to grasp.

Everything in the interlude could have just been a quick 2 minute flashback or under 10 sentences in a conversation and it wouldn't really change much. Zoey and MC were together, Zoey's Grandmother died and left her money, Zoey left to become a surfer and MC stayed behind to finish school, Zoey met some people and worked in a tattoo place, Zoey ran out of money and didn't like surfing so she decided to return home to the MC.

Start of episode flashback. Zoey and MC talking with Zoey deciding to leave and MC staying behind.

Scene with MC telling Derek his ex is back. Flashback of Zoey and MC hanging out and Zoey finding out her Grandmother died. Zoey finds out her Grandmother left her money to become a surfer and Zoey discusses leaving with the MC.

Scene of Zoey and MC. Flashback where Zoey tells the MC about some of the people she met, she didn't like surfing, she ran out of money and missed the MC.

All I need to know about Zoey is that she had a relationship with the MC and a small amount of background about her character. Josy, Maya, Jill and Sage didn't get a whole episode about their life without the MC and I didn't need it for Zoey. Just like every character I don't need a whole episode dedicated to a part of their life I just need some bits of their background while growing a relationship with them in the game.

 

[znar25]

I agree with you on a lot of things. But I think to myself that he is also very focused in EP9. Over-focused might be a better word.

He will be so focused on turning mysteries and consequences into a coherent picture story. His focus will be on the end result, but he wants to achieve that end result too precisely and perfectly, so he's inserted new images every now and then to better explain the story.

I also expect that there will be a lot of consequences. I was playing EP7 again yesterday and something Tommy said struck me.

Tommy: "Haha! I am a motherfucker! That MILF bar is the bomb."

With sentences like that, I always wonder if we should take DPC at their word. In the bar is Nicole (Envy). There's an EP9 preview with her. The MC also sees Jade and Cathy. In EP9, the MC will probably meet Jade, and Cathy is seen in the EP8 recap. Nora is also seen in the bar, in the credits of EP8, and in a preview.

The number of bar consequences alone would have made the paths very unmanageable, and DPC has built so many possibilities for consequences into the story that it is very confusing to create a detailed picture story for them.

Proper script writing and storyboarding should be the first task? That is not a criticism of DPC, but I am speculating a weak point.

 

[inevitableandinfinity8]

Everyone should have the right to an opinion, even those who are not subscribed to Patreon. For many, this is simply unbearable financially, not everyone here is from the First World. But if people turned off their emotions and thought more before writing something, it would be great.
I basically understand why "so long". What I saw in the preview and in the Interlude - the game has grown in graphics and I imagine how huge the size of Episode 9 will be. I think at least 6-7 GB, the entire first season takes this size! The short Interlude took up 2.3 GB, which is unbelievable. It takes longer to process this amount of content and it would make sense for PinkCake to buy even more rendering hardware. If there is still free space for computers in his house.
Plus this problem with Friday Prophets, which stole one week to create the 0.83 patch and deal with the itch.to scammer, took another week. And someone else in the thread said that he had Covid.
What I see in his reports is enthusiasm and love for his creation, even to the point of fanaticism. So I don't think there is anything to worry about. The game will be released, albeit later than we expected. And people who make drama because of the delay for one or two months are just amateurs, they don’t know how it is to wait for STALKER 2 and Half-Life 3

Hmmm, I see . . . where are you coming from. While I agree with you on this point completely

"" * ""

What I see in his reports is enthusiasm and love for his creation, even to the point of fanaticism. So I don't think there is anything to worry about. The game will be released, albeit later than we expected. And people who make drama because of the delay for one or two months are just amateurs, they don’t know how it is to wait for STALKER 2 and Half-Life 3

"" * ""

About : "Everyone should have the right to an opinion." Kinda agree in my previously comment but :

You see, A driver can't bitch about car that is car owner's right. : I hope you get What I am trying to say.