VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[DavDR]

I think the thought process here is that Sage is tied to the DIK route so it's odd that there are scenes with her that only happen if you do something CHIK.

This is very similar to the discussion that's going on about the Jill/Sage choice, where when you do something thoughtful by helping Sage you loose with Jill who's always been on the CHIK path. It's just kinda game-y for a visual novel.

 

[Gladheim]

Not also Jill's characterization, but MC's too. He's been a kind, supportive guy, and that's why Jill likes him so much. He has promised a friend in need to be there for her and then Jill come out of the blue and invites him to a surprise date. All while being in a emotional conflict thanks to Tybalt, so I can even understand she takes this date like a turning point ("does MC really worth it...?") Problem is the in-game MC is not aware of this crucial detail. We as players know what's happening and that kind of info asymmetry is something I never liked in games, because it's forcing me to make a decision in the name of a character that doesn't have the same inputs than me, so immersion is broken. I'm choosing like "me, the external player", not like "me, my in-game MC". And I hate that.

Well, what I say is that the man Jill has started to love would probably go to confort a friend who he knows that needs him (and who he has promised to help) instead of having a selfish, nice date with a girl that, in that moment, he can't possibly know that also needs him to step forward for her (of course, she never tell him that, and he never comes up with a rain check). And by making that most logical choice according to his previous behaviour he's closing the door to the girl that, till this point, was more aligned with his character. Emotional manipulation and lack of a proper communication, that's the only way DPC knows to do things, time after time.

Add this to your reasoning and I do not think that a girl who likes you is very happy that you reject her romantic date for going to help another girl, no matter how much friend she is, because she may think that the friend is more important than herself ... I at least think for myself. If I'm dating a girl and I go to her house with a surprise date for her birthday and she dumps me because she tells me she has to take care of a friend, I would take it a little badly.

 

[brichouse]

Add this to your reasoning and I do not think that a girl who likes you is very happy that you reject her romantic date for going to help another girl, no matter how much friend she is, because she may think that the friend is more important than herself ... I at least think for myself. If I'm dating a girl and I go to her house with a surprise date for her birthday and she dumps me because she tells me she has to take care of a friend, I would take it a little badly.

Nobody dumps anybody. MC made a prior commitment and 'punishing' him for it by subtracting Jill points if he decides to honor it seems counterintuitive when Jill is all about dropping everything to support friends in need and going out of her way to 'help' people (like when she reported Chad). That's what this boils down to.

 

[Malicre]

Not also Jill's characterization, but MC's too. He's been a kind, supportive guy, and that's why Jill likes him so much. He has promised a friend in need to be there for her and then Jill come out of the blue and invites him to a surprise date.

Which is absolutely hilarious because women hate it when you try to make a date without giving them a 2-3 days notice.

 

[moskyx]

Add this to your reasoning and I do not think that a girl who likes you is very happy that you reject her romantic date for going to help another girl, no matter how much friend she is, because she may think that the friend is more important than herself ... I at least think for myself. If I'm dating a girl and I go to her house with a surprise date for her birthday and she dumps me because she tells me she has to take care of a friend, I would take it a little badly.

That I can understand, but note that for a Neutral/Chick MC is not that the friend is more important than her, is that MC's word to a friend is more important than anything else, especially when he doesn't have enough inputs to properly weight the situation (had MC now beforehand what Tybalt is doing, that this might be his last chance to be with Jill, well, maybe priorities can change). Until this point, Jill has been a nice, sensible and understanding woman who likes to do good things to her friends. How can MC imagine she, from all the people, is the one who's going to cut ties with him for not being "free" to accept a surprise date?

What I'm trying to show is the inconsistence with the way the game has being handling relationships and characters so far, and also how almost every big choice is presented in an unfair way just because in the last moment DPC decides that characters can't speak as loud and clear as they usually express themselves. We are playing a game and the dev is playing us, that I don't like.

 

[Gladheim]

Nobody dumps anybody. MC made a prior commitment and 'punishing' him for it by subtracting Jill points if he decides to honor it seems counterintuitive when Jill is all about dropping everything to support friends in need and going out of her way to 'help' people (like when she reported Chad). That's what this boils down to.

I know but that's why you have to choose, if Sage is just a friend or fuck buddy and Jill is your love interest you know who to choose and vice versa. Sage has the flu, is something normal , nothing serious and you can go with her at any other time or day, the birthday date could only be there.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Well considering everything else on the Sage's path either rewards you with DIK status points, or requires you to follow a Neutral/DIK affinity it's a bit unusual that you now have to go CHICK for the same character. Or are you one of those fan's of games where you have to play with a guide open so you can follow all of the un-intuitive twistings and turnings just to navigate the game?

Sage path does not requires any affinity status. You simply agree to teach her how to play guitar and you agree to fuck with her when she offer it, and you to became fuck-buddies .

 

[moskyx]

I know but that's why you have to choose, if Sage is just a friend or fuck buddy and Jill is your love interest you know who to choose and vice versa. Sage has the flu is not normal and you can go with her at any other time or day, the birthday date could only be there.

That could also work exactly the opposite way, don't you think? The birthday date (MC's birthday was the day before, btw) could be easily postponed to the next day. Tomorrow Sage could be OK, is today when she needs help

 

[Malicre]

Pre Josei Maya and Bella we're the only 2 LI's that interested me when i started playing. Maya is a no go anymore as shes too meek and submissive now and we all know the Bella drama is coming so i fully expect my MC to end up alone at this point. Maybe there's a surprise ending with Jade or one of the side girls but i'm not holding my breath.

 

[Gladheim]

That could also work exactly the opposite way, don't you think? The birthday date (MC's birthday was the day before, btw) could be easily postponed to the next day. Tomorrow Sage could be OK, is today when she needs help

But be serious and speak for yourself, think for a moment what you would do, I repeat myself a lot but here you must choose the one you consider that you want to have something serious with her. If it's Sage, go to her and what Jill thinks, well is her problem, since you don't see her as something serious, because I don't think she stops talking to you (regardless of blackmail), she'll still be your friend but nothing more. I dont see the problem, if you date multiple girls at time you can be hurted xD and I know it from my own experience haha

 

[JeefZ]

WHY does my game keep dumping at tests!!!!! Not just this ep. but all??? Before I had ep 5 and 5.2 and had to keep changeing to get through.... There has to be a reason!!

 

[moskyx]

But be serious and speak for yourself, think for a moment what you would do, I repeat myself a lot but here you must choose the one you consider that you want to have something serious with her. If it's Sage, go to her and what Jill thinks, well is her problem, since you don't see her as something serious, because I don't think she stops talking to you (regardless of blackmail), she'll still be your friend but nothing more. I dont see the problem, if you date multiple girls at time you can be hurted xD and I know it from my own experience haha

If I had 19 years old and were torned between Sage and Jill, I'd go to Sage every day. Most people interested in Jill would go with her, but that would mean breaking with all what your character is. The point is that this exact situation (going to a surprise date vs staying true to your word given to a friend) being the turning point for Jill is non-sensical (considering how the affinity/RP system has been built so far) and highly unfair for a Chick MC who's unaware of Tybalt's machination

 

[Kellermann]

But be serious and speak for yourself, think for a moment what you would do, I repeat myself a lot but here you must choose the one you consider that you want to have something serious with her. If it's Sage, go to her and what Jill thinks, well is her problem, since you don't see her as something serious, because I don't think she stops talking to you (regardless of blackmail), she'll still be your friend but nothing more. I dont see the problem, if you date multiple girls at time you can be hurted xD and I know it from my own experience haha

I don't mind DPC including a fork in the road choice between Sage and Jill. I just wish he wouldn't have made the choice so counterintuitive. No matter how you slice it, helping a severely ill friend (male or female, fuck buddy or not) is a Chick choice and Chick choices are Jill's bread and butter.

 

[Imladris]

But be serious and speak for yourself, think for a moment what you would do, I repeat myself a lot but here you must choose the one you consider that you want to have something serious with her. If it's Sage, go to her and what Jill thinks, well is her problem, since you don't see her as something serious, because I don't think she stops talking to you (regardless of blackmail), she'll still be your friend but nothing more. I dont see the problem, if you date multiple girls at time you can be hurted xD and I know it from my own experience haha

Well... in my case it's not a question of pursuing someone or not. In real life I am the kind of person that when says he is doing something, then he is... that's it... If I say yes to a certain plan, I am not changing my answer almost no matter what. Of course there could be extenuating circunstances, but I dont think that's ever happened to me. More like the other party cancels the get toghether or whatever it was. So even though I am pursuing Jill, I feel I have to go to Sage on that moment and in real life you probably would not loose points truth be told. It's a "friend" (at least as far as Jill knows) and is sick.

 

[brichouse]

But be serious and speak for yourself, think for a moment what you would do, I repeat myself a lot but here you must choose the one you consider that you want to have something serious with her. If it's Sage, go to her and what Jill thinks, well is her problem, since you don't see her as something serious, because I don't think she stops talking to you (regardless of blackmail), she'll still be your friend but nothing more. I dont see the problem, if you date multiple girls at time you can be hurted xD and I know it from my own experience haha

But MC being seen as making a 'relationship' decision if he goes to take care of a sick and depressed Sage when she's essentially friend-zoned him makes absolutely no sense... Beyond that, the right thing to do would be to go to the friend you know needs you rather than pursuing getting your dick wet by going on a date with Jill, and I could've sworn Jill was into people doing the right thing...

 

[Holy Bacchus]

That I can understand, but note that for a Neutral/Chick MC is not that the friend is more important than her, is that MC's word to a friend is more important than anything else, especially when he doesn't have enough inputs to properly weight the situation (had MC now beforehand what Tybalt is doing, that this might be his last chance to be with Jill, well, maybe priorities can change). Until this point, Jill has been a nice, sensible and understanding woman who likes to do good things to her friends. How can MC imagine she, from all the people, is the one who's going to cut ties with him for not being "free" to accept a surprise date?

What I'm trying to show is the inconsistence with the way the game has being handling relationships and characters so far, and also how almost every big choice is presented in an unfair way just because in the last moment DPC decides that characters can't speak as loud and clear as they usually express themselves. We are playing a game and the dev is playing us, that I don't like.

This is where, again, I feel the affinity system of this game proves its flaws. DPC is trying to put certain characters on certain paths that align with this largely undefined system that seems like it's intended to be a metric of the MC's personality, but his actions should speak far louder than a character's pre-designated alignment, and not just those of the Major Choices.

Major DIK choices show the MC to have something of a reckless and impulsive streak, whilst Major CHICK choices show him to be more calm and measured. But even whilst having DIK affinity he can do good deeds and say the right things with the minor choices, just as he can be a jerk and say more crude things whilst having CHICK affinity. It not only creates an inconsistency within the character but can also create inconsistencies within the story and the MC's relationships with other characters, case-in-point, M&J. A DIK affinity MC can gain every RP with M&J and do everything positive with them yet is rejected because apparently his personality is something that makes them doubt having a relationship with him even though his actions with them should give them no reason to doubt him.

Similarly, being locked out of Cathy's content, helping Quinn, the tongue play with Lily, and bar scenes with Nora, Nicole and Sandy are being tied to not just affinity but also relationship status, and it's robbing us of being able to make our own choices. The game is choosing for us, and I personally am not liking this approach and do not look forward to this increasing as the game goes on. There can be consequences, sure, but let us, the player, deal with them. We should be the ones deciding if we want to risk it or not, but equally I feel there should be a way for us to try to mitigate the consequences to soften the blow. DPC, however, seems to feel it's better to let us suffer consequences without choice which would be bad game design, in my opinion.

 

[freitas10]

It was probably asked before, but the search function is awful.. what's new in 0.61? Just bugs right? Because I played the whole 0.60 and did not find any bug, maybe it was in older episodes.

 

[moskyx]

Can i update from 0.6 to 0.6.1 with the patch ? It says 0.5.x to 0.6.1 but i don't want to download 10+ Gb again

Yes, it works for 0.6 to 0.6.1. It's basically the same patch as before with some minor changes, it would rewrite again the files updated before

 

[Kellermann]

I'm at a point where I don't even see a reason to continue with my Jill-centric save. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. You know DPC is saving her lewd content for the very end (probably season 3). What, are going to keep having boring dates for the next 4 or 5 seasons (two years in rl)? And all the while she pulls shit like ratting Chad and me out to the counselors (which caused a ton of problems) and expecting me to ditch my sick friend whom I promised to help? Fuck off Jill. You can have that douchebag Tybalt. You deserve each other.

 

[lemonfreak]

I'm at a point where I don't even see a reason to continue with my Jill-centric save. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. You know DPC is saving her lewd content for the very end (probably season 3). What, are going to keep having boring dates for the next 4 or 5 seasons (two years in rl)? And all the while she pulls shit like ratting Chad and me out to the counselors (which caused a ton of problems) and expecting me to ditch my sick friend whom I promised to help? Fuck off Jill. You can have that douchebag Tybalt. You deserve each other.

You'd let my sweet Jill end up with that stalker? You'd probably let his dad keep sneaking into Bella's house at night as well?

Speaking of Burke, my reaction to the scene in his office was that he was deleting Mona's info purely out of spite and that it was pure coincidence that she was leaving B&R anyway.