VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[DavDR]

please don't make me defend chapter 4 ending ....

however, as you say, MC believes her and if he believes her he forgives her

to give you an example if MC is DIK, after the grinding he can treat Maya very badly when he finds her in the dormitory, yet in the dialogues he forgives her anyway.

once he forgives her they can also be friends

we may not have remained friends, but MC did, and this is his story

No I think you are missing my point. Why would the MC be friends with Josy or Maya? It makes no logical sense that MC would, unless we are to believe that he is someone who enjoys being used. Everytime I ask this question the response is always the same, because the MC choose's to. I'm asking what's his motivation?

 

[felicemastronzo]

No I think you are missing my point. Why would the MC be friends with Josy or Maya? It makes no logical sense that MC would, unless we are to believe that he is someone who enjoys being used. Everytime I ask this question the response is always the same, because the MC choose's to. I'm asking what's his motivation?

it is evident that MC does not feel used. otherwise he would not have forgiven Maya even after insulting her for grinding.

we must take this as an established fact.

MC is presented to us as a good Sammaritan, who helps his neighbor (especially if he is an important character) whenever he can. perhaps this is what still binds him to Maya and that makes him accept, despite the sentimental burn, to always run to her aid.

MC has forgiven Maya, he said it explicitly, we can speculate about the reasons, but we must accept it.

let's be clear: temperamentally I understand your point, but it's not important

 

[DavDR]

I think both girls come across as nice people, they just made some mistakes in love (and so did the MC by involving himself in both of them at the same time). This hang up of being "cucked" seems to have distorted a lot of people’s understanding of what went wrong here.

Maya was confused (she’s not normally attracted to boys), sad (her long distant relationship was going south) and inexperienced. Josy was also unhappy due to her long distant relationship failing, as well as feeling that the Maya's stupid, interfering father could be an issue in the relationship for who knows ow long anyway. They met the MC, went from friends to something a bit more very quickly, and then suddenly it got complicated. Shit happens, especially when emotions are involved.

When the two girls reunited they had a difficult decision to make, going for a long term "throuple" is fraught with danger, normal relationships fail all the time, three people trying to make it work is very unlikely, and the entire discussion and reasoning in the library was just how scared they were to try something like that and screw it up completely. It's a porn game, so we're all thinking, "Yah! Threesome!" only to be told, sorry bud, but us girls don't think this is going to work. A lot of porn game playing Joes (who don't expect rejection and thought it was about the be payoff time) got their noses seriously out of joint, "how dare you cuck me bitches!"...

If the MC is emotionally mature enough to understand what happen and still be friends, that's admirable. If he's hoping to stick around to maybe rekindle the previous relationship, that could be misguided (since if that happens it'd be on the rebound, kinda where he found both girls in the first place).

But it's a porn game, and if you played your cards right, you got your threesome (or maybe you should have just held out for Mel and Sarah).

Just because someone 'seems' like a nice person, or they are sad, is no excuse for using other people's feelings. This argument has gone on for a long time and I sometimes feel like we are all talking past one another, but none of the M&J defenders have ever made the case to explain why the MC would ever forgive these two selfish girls.

 

[DavDR]

it is evident that MC does not feel used. otherwise he would not have forgiven Maya even after insulting her for grinding.

we must take this as an established fact.

MC is presented to us as a good Sammaritan, who helps his neighbor (especially if he is an important character) whenever he can. perhaps this is what still binds him to Maya and that makes him accept, despite the sentimental burn, to always run to her aid.

MC has forgiven Maya, he said it explicitly, we can speculate about the reasons, but we must accept it.

let's be clear: temperamentally I understand your point, but it's not important

Then it's just very bad writing, because I don't believe it for a second. You can write a story to say anything you want, but you have to make it convincing that your character would do this or that, or the story just completely falls apart.

 

[shazba]

Just because someone 'seems' like a nice person, or they are sad, is no excuse for using other people's feelings. This argument has gone on for a long time and I sometimes feel like we are all talking past one another, but none of the M&J defenders have ever made the case to explain why the MC would ever forgive these two selfish girls.

You've probably said it heaps, but bullet point out exactly what these girls did that was seriously using the mc?

 

[Gladheim]

Just because someone 'seems' like a nice person, or they are sad, is no excuse for using other people's feelings. This argument has gone on for a long time and I sometimes feel like we are all talking past one another, but none of the M&J defenders have ever made the case to explain why the MC would ever forgive these two selfish girls.

Dude but how selfish? Josy didn't lie, Maya did but because she didn't want to lose the MC, Maya was sure her relationship with Josy was over. From there, we go back to the same old thing, the MC was flirting with everyone and even having sex with other girls and they are the selfish ones? come on don't fuck with me xd if you play with fire you get burned and the MC has burned

 

[shazba]

Then it's just very bad writing, because I don't believe it for a second. You can write a story to say anything you want, but you have to make it convincing that your character would do this or that, or the story just completely falls apart.

The fact that so many people are debating it means it is convincing to some people and not others. The MC isn't everyone, he's one guy who some people can understand and others can't, and our point of reference for understanding him is what we'd do in the same situation.

 

[shazba]

Dude but how selfish? Josy didn't lie, Maya did but because she didn't want to lose the MC, Maya was sure her relationship with Josy was over. From there, we go back to the same old thing, the MC was flirting with everyone and even having sex with other girls and they are the selfish ones? come on don't fuck with me xd if you play with fire you get burned and the MC has burned

It's a good burn though, like after a solid workout.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I think both girls come across as nice people, they just made some mistakes in love (and so did the MC by involving himself in both of them at the same time). This hang up of being "cucked" seems to have distorted a lot of people’s understanding of what went wrong here.

Maya was confused (she’s not normally attracted to boys), sad (her long distant relationship was going south) and inexperienced. Josy was also unhappy due to her long distant relationship failing, as well as feeling that the Maya's stupid, interfering father could be an issue in the relationship for who knows how long anyway. They met the MC, went from friends to something a bit more very quickly, and then suddenly it got complicated. Shit happens, especially when emotions are involved.

When the two girls reunited they had a difficult decision to make, going for a long term "throuple" is fraught with danger, normal relationships fail all the time, three people trying to make it work is very unlikely, and the entire discussion and reasoning in the library was just how scared they were to try something like that and screw it up completely. It's a porn game, so we're all thinking, "Yah! Threesome!" only to be told, sorry bud, but us girls don't think this is going to work. A lot of porn game playing Joes (who don't expect rejection and thought it was about the be payoff time) got their noses seriously out of joint, "how dare you cuck me bitches!"...

If the MC is emotionally mature enough to understand what happen and still be friends, that's admirable. If he's hoping to stick around to maybe rekindle the previous relationship, that could be misguided (since if that happens it'd be on the rebound, kinda where he found both girls in the first place).

But it's a porn game, and if you played your cards right, you got your threesome (or maybe you should have just held out for Mel and Sarah).

I agree with your point, but there are two things I don't like

to defend Maya and Josy there is no need to accuse the MC. would his mistake be falling in love with Josy? a girl who says she's busy but keeps looking for him and flirting with him? or to fall in love with Maya, officially declare yourself and help her in every way? where is the fault? he can be, depending on our choices, most sincere with both of them, he is not reciprocated in this, he goes crazy, but then he forgives them. it really seems to me that we can hardly blame him.

and another consideration, however, not addressed to you but DPC. the path in friendship with Maya and Josy is hateful, frustrating, covered by the losing sign everywhere. Is it possible that as friends Maya and Josy cannot even call him to wish him a happy birthday? DPC has created a route that is frustrating, punitive, and that only gives you problems to solve, scenes of discomfort and no comfort. with the mirage of the individual route for those who hope for it.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Dude but how selfish? Josy didn't lie, Maya did but because she didn't want to lose the MC, Maya was sure her relationship with Josy was over. From there, we go back to the same old thing, the MC was flirting with everyone and even having sex with other girls and they are the selfish ones? come on don't fuck with me xd if you play with fire you get burned and the MC has burned

Josy doesn't lie, but she omits several things from him.

overall she is no more honest than Maya, the difference being that Maya constantly asks him for help while Josy is not.

the two girls are not honest with each other either.

nothing or anyone saves them from this

 

[AchedCroissant]

Who is this beauty Josylike?
View attachment 916362

I believe she is the blue haired girl from AL I don't remember her name

 

[Mistrophera]

Who is this beauty Josylike?
View attachment 916362

It's Ana from Acting Lesson I think.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I believe she is the blue haired girl from AL I don't remember her name

Rena?

i do not think

It's Ana from Acting Lesson I think.

Maybe

 

[Machete]

I think DavDR has a point. In real life it can happen all the time that you get somewhere with a girl, and she suddely goes back to a past relationship. Now, at this point you can be cool with that (and the MC of this game would have every reason to, since he does more or less half the campus with very little effort) and be ok being around that girl with no further interest in a relationship, or you can choose to have had enough and cut any contact with her.

In this game the MC is stripped of the second option because the plot requires so. Personally i don't see a big deal in that, it didn't ruin my immersion even a little bit, but there is a point.

 

[Gladheim]

Josy doesn't lie, but she omits several things from him.

overall she is no more honest than Maya, the difference being that Maya constantly asks him for help while Josy is not.

the two girls are not honest with each other either.

nothing or anyone saves them from this

Here the worst of the 3 is the MC, but since we are the ones who identify with him, we do not blame him.

 

[Gladheim]

It's Ana from Acting Lesson I think.

Yeah her name is Ana, from acting lesson ah...mmm i need to make a visit to that game

 

[felicemastronzo]

Here the worst of the 3 is the MC, but since we are the ones who identify with him, we do not blame him.

I don't understand why he would be the worst.

what would his fault be?

 

[DavDR]

You've probably said it heaps, but bullet point out exactly what these girls did that was seriously using the mc?

Seriously, I have to write this all out again?

First, read the ep 4 library scene again


Try to put yourself in the MC's shoes. Do you think that he might have thought that there was a possibility of a relationship here? And how would you feel when this possibility of a relationship turn's out to be that you were an emotional crutch for this girl? And now that she has what she wants, you just don't matter anymore. Especially given that she never even told you that there was already someone in her life?

Josy did tell MC that she had someone else. He then did the right thing and told her this is farewell. But Josy insisted that it was not farewell, only good bye while crying and hugging him. Don't you think she was sending him mixed signal's here? Don't you think she was holding out the possibility that there could still be something between them?

Then later when she calls him at college it sounds very much like she's about to end her relationship and run away. What do you say then to a girl you've had a crush on all summer? 'OK Bye, have a nice life' Have you ever heard of the concept of drawing somebody forward by running away? Then, after their date together he's just about to leave when she interrupt's him and invite's him into her bed. What do you think you would be feeling at that moment?

The situation is pretty clear, and both girl's admit it, that they used the MC as an emotional crutch at a time when they were both sad and lonely. How would you feel in that situation?

 

[Gladheim]

I don't understand why it would be the worst.

what would his fault be?

Well, it would be to be emotionally attached to two girls, one of whom has told him that she had a partner and at the same time to be dating many others and then get angry at discovering that the two of them had been a couple, remember that Maya believes that that was over now. They all acted bad, but the MC is not a saint

 

[TrainHardnett]

I think DavDR has a point. In real life it can happen all the time that you get somewhere with a girl, and she suddely goes back to a past relationship. Now, at this point you can be cool with that (and the MC of this game would have every reason to, since he does more or less half the campus with very little effort) and be ok being around that girl with no further interest in a relationship, or you can choose to have had enough and cut any contact with her.

In this game the MC is stripped of the second option because the plot requires so. Personally i don't see a big deal in that, it didn't ruin my immersion even a little bit, but there is a point.

The thing is it doesn't even account for those who chose not to engage with either of them except the forced scenes with Josy at the start and later MC can refuse to sleep with her because she is in a relationship. He can choose not to engate with Maya yet she still desperately wants that D anyway even though she on all accounts a lesbian. (MC unknowing of the fact) And the game and choices refuse to acknowledge that fact and carry on as if you did engage with them, when in really according to the choices you shouldn't even begin to care.