VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

I think everyone here has different interpretations on what good writing is. Here are some of the many aspects of good writing (which I've ordered as subjectively achieved by DPC):

1. Writing good scenes - Most of the scenes are very satisfying (there are a few scenes that we keep revisiting that some people have a problem with).
2. Writing humorous dialogue - The humor is way up there (the humor in so many games in this genre is stale or just weird).
3. Writing engaging dialogue - The dialogue is very engaging. Considering the entire game is carried by the visual and dialogue (with virtually no narration), I have never once found it a chore reading through the scenes. Most games I've played here have bogged down at some point or other where I've just lost interest in reading and started skipping through scenes.
4. Keeping people enthralled in a story - Totally enthralling. People burn through the episodes then pine for me.
5. Writing good characters - Most of the characters are top notch.
6. Making people emotional in a story - I don't think the game is too emotional however some people say it is, and AL was heralded as a high emotional game.
7. Coming up with a good overall premise - The premise for BaDIK is fine, not entirely original but enjoyable.
8. Writing a convincing story - and here we have the big criticism. Some aspects do not hold up under scrutiny. Some people have strongly establish they need a more detailed explanation for some of the numerous scenarios in the story.

So once again I am saying, stop saying, "DPC is a poor writer, only his renders are good", it is far too generic and is basically a useless criticism.

If you think some aspects of the story fall flat or need better explanation, there's your criticism. But by saying DPC is a poor writer, you're discarding all of the other aspects of his writing that make the game so endearing to so many.

the first 5 points in my opinion are closely related to the fifth. you like a scene, a dialogue if its protagonists are credible and interesting.

I don't like Derek as a character (even if I decided to reevaluate him for Kellermann ), but he remains a credible character. and in fact his sentimental crisis is well done, it involved me.

the problems are all about the overall design of the story. DPC lacks the awareness that "less is more" almost always, there is often an excess in reactions, drama and information. if in the end I consider two of the theoretically most important moments of the game as two of the worst scenes, I cannot be satisfied ..

I pretend one of the two did not happen, the second I hope does not do too much damage

 

[Kellermann]

I don't like Derek as a character (even if I decided to reevaluate him for @Kellermann ), but he remains a credible character.

Well thanks, I think

 

[shazba]

So the whole point is not if there's a base for a legal case, because it will never be a legal case. The point is why an in-love Jill can believe Tybalt to that extent when he tells her there's another prep willing to sue MC. It's not a plot issue but a Jill's characterization issue: how can a girl like her believe a guy like Tybalt when she feels something for the MC? Why she believes Tybalt is going to convince that other guy and lets him do so, instead of taking matters into her own hands and clear things out with the MC and that other guy first, to know what exactly happened and what are the future consequences of it? Because she just accepts Tybalt's word on it and even when she 'rebels' against his advice and invites MC to the birthday date she's apparently decided to end things with him before knowing MC's version of the story. She was always presented as a nice, caring and inteligent girl, and now she seems to be not just naive, but socially dumb and unaware of the whole world of possibilities her surname opens to her. Which is not to be expected from someone with her background.

Even though Jill likes the MC, she knows he's hanging with the wrong crowd (in her opinion), she has already written off the DIKs based on her experience with Rusty and seeing the others' behavior. So when Tybalt gives her these stories, it only fuels her concerns.

She's torn between what she feels and what she thinks is the truth (as told to her by Tybalt).

She's preoccupied in the auditorium and focuses on her music concerns before intending to talk about the Tybalt issue but then loses her window - she kinda procrastinates about it (who wants to have that kind of conversation anyway). The fact that he showed up with a black eye didn't help his cause much...

She unintentionally meets him at the library and the Tybalt conversation is not one to have in front of friends.

She enjoys his company on the picnic but the Tybalt conversation would have been hanging over her head the whole time. She knew she had to initiate it but she would have been dreading it. When the MC goes to kiss her she fucks up her entire approach to the subject and even admits it came out wrong. Then she tells him and he reacts.

In her consistent motherly fashion, she was trying to protect the mc from trouble, trouble that she believes he caused and he even admits to.

There's nothing wrong or poorly written about any of this. She's a 21 year old woman falling in love but the target of her affections is setting off red flags all over the place. Is he a trouble maker or is he a victim? But she wants him! Emotions can be motherfuckers, making it hard to see straight and to think straight.

 

[Gladheim]

I've only played a couple of those and none of them come close to the quality of writing. Timestamps is a very good game, a very good sex game, but the plot is messy. Seems like you're trying too hard to be a contrarian if you're going to say those games have better writing.

The bar is really low for these games but you know the writing for a sex game if good when you have a flash back with no sex, only involves male characters and you actually enjoy it.

I played Rebirth, TimeStamps, Leap of Faith and City of Broken Dreamers and I agree with you... is not the same, good games, fun games and some with an entertaining story behind that make you want to keep playing. But BaDIK is another level

Happy Holidays!

It's been a very weird and possibly dark year for all of us.
But even when things are dark in our lives, we should appreciate the things that aren't and find something that keeps us going.
For me, creating this game has been a way to get through 2020. It's brought me a lot of joy through all the ups and downs.
Thank you all for the support you've shown me this year.
I remember by this time, last year, I was scared as hell for jumping ship to work on this game full-time.
You're literally the reason I can keep doing this for a living and I hope my past, current, and future efforts will show you how much your support means to me.
It's not taken for granted and it never will be.

Cheers to all of you maggot brothers and HOT sisters!
Merry Christmas and Happy holidays!
And if you're not checking in until 2021, have a wonderful new year!

Dr PinkCake

Tybalt outside is what we deserve

 

[DavDR]

I share your point of view

but I raise !!!

not for nothing I consider it the second worst scene of BADIK.

Tybalt would have had a much better chance of success if he had told the truth, which in Jill's eyes would have been enough to question MC's morality (still as morally guilty as Jar Jar Derek), but he lies immediately losing every chance. and this only serves to put Tybalt in the wrong, otherwise the matter would be much more nuanced. Does it make sense for a girl like Jill to deal with a troublemaker like MC? Jill would approve of how many of MC's behaviors?

Jill's behavior is really borderline, she completely trusts Tybalt, but in this I think we are confused by the fact that everyone considers him very bad, but Jill in reality always treats him well and with respect. then we consider it a blackmail, Tybalt presents it as an advice, which in absolute would also make sense. what nonsense of Jill's behavior is the attitude with MC, really twisted, and absolutely out of character that she decided what to do before asking MC's version of what happened. she can also choose to protect him anyway, but only after understanding the situation

it's a complete waste of time, which fails to involve me in any way, and I'm sorry because Jill was a character that I liked.

For someone who's so good at writing engaging characters DPC always seem's to fail with his villain's.

Imagine if he had written Tybalt as something other than a buffoonish richie rich with a painted on tan? If he has to lean on stereotypes then make him like a stock aristocrat,

Always impeccably polite, if not warmly so
Unflappable, stiff upper lip and all that.
A wicked, biting sarcasm and a dry humor

A character like that would be a much more viable rival for Jill and a worthy opponent for MC.

The antagonist is a key part of a successful story. Imagine something like Die Hard without Hans Gruber or Silence of the Lambs without Hannibal Lector? Instead we get Tybalt's, Psycho Killers, and Christian Hitler.

 

[Meushi]

Just a few considerations about the 'blackmailing' thing. Yeah, there's no ground for any legal action against the MC. And yeah, it doesn't really matter.

Tybalt is not threatening with a lawsuit, he's just telling Jill someone else is willing to do so and he's going to stop that person. For that lie to work, he only needs Jill to trust him enough

I agree, the threat itself is the main game. How strong the case against MC may be is a secondary consideration.

I'd dispute that there's no case, there are multiple witnesses to trespass at least since they can prove he wasn't invited. This alone would be grounds for expulsion for student misconduct, particularly if Burke et al. lean on the decision makers. Wrecking MC's academic prospects is more than enough for Ty's purposes.

The point is why an in-love Jill can believe Tybalt to that extent when he tells her there's another prep willing to sue MC. It's not a plot issue but a Jill's characterization issue: how can a girl like her believe a guy like Tybalt when she feels something for the MC?

Jill has no reason not to take Tybalt's words seriously, she's known him for years & he's insufferably nice to her, despite being a pompous ass.

On the CHICK route at least, Jill believes the MC's version of events, but recognizes the facts don't matter, the preps can wreck the MC's life without making all of their allegations stick (expulsion, legal costs etc.).

Seems like there are plenty of examples of frivolous law suites being successfully used to make people back off despite their lack of merit because they can't afford to mount a defense or it's not worth the cost/trouble.

She's not seeking to break up with the MC because she believes Ty's assessment that the MC is bad, but in a misguided attempt to protect him.

Because, as in Maya's case, why nobody ever consider asking for profesional help/advice when facing a legal/financial problem that goes beyond their comprehension?

Again I agree, but isn't this the basis for most teen-angst dramas? Lack of communication seems like standard fodder for this genre?

That's something I could believe from someone like Maya, or even the MC, but it's harder to believe from a rich girl who should be used to be around lawyers all her life.

Jill's family has money & presumably lawyers, that doesn't mean Jill knows anything about it? She doesn't appear overly close to her parents, I'd be surprised if she knew much of anything about the details of their business/legal affairs.

It's similarly unlikely that she has the funds to bankroll the MC's defense without her families support, who know nothing about him afaict.

 

[Kellermann]

Happy Holidays!

It's been a very weird and possibly dark year for all of us.
But even when things are dark in our lives, we should appreciate the things that aren't and find something that keeps us going.
For me, creating this game has been a way to get through 2020. It's brought me a lot of joy through all the ups and downs.
Thank you all for the support you've shown me this year.
I remember by this time, last year, I was scared as hell for jumping ship to work on this game full-time.
You're literally the reason I can keep doing this for a living and I hope my past, current, and future efforts will show you how much your support means to me.
It's not taken for granted and it never will be.

Dr PinkCake

That's great sir, so don't kill Sage...or the other girls. Thank you. Happy Holidays.

 

[shazba]

For someone who's so good at writing engaging characters DPC always seem's to fail with his villain's.

Imagine if he had written Tybalt as something other than a buffoonish richie rich with a painted on tan? If he has to lean on stereotypes then make him like a stock aristocrat,

Always impeccably polite, if not warmly so
Unflappable, stiff upper lip and all that.
A wicked, biting sarcasm and a dry humor

A character like that would be a much more viable rival for Jill and a worthy opponent for MC.

The antagonist is a key part of a successful story. Imagine something like Die Hard without Hans Gruber or Silence of the Lambs without Hannibal Lector? Instead we get Tybalt's, Psycho Killers, and Christian Hitler.

But Tybalt is just meant to be an annoying prep at college who has his eye on one of the LIs. He's not meant to be one of 007's arch nemeses.

 

[Kellermann]

Imagine if he had written Tybalt as something other than a buffoonish richie rich with a painted on tan? If he has to lean on stereotypes then make him like a stock aristocrat,

Tybalt would work a lot a better as an antagonist if the entire story were a fun college comedy, but we all know DPC likes to cast darkness where it doesn't always belong.

 

[shazba]

the first 5 points in my opinion are closely related to the fifth. you like a scene, a dialogue if its protagonists are credible and interesting.

I don't like Derek as a character (even if I decided to reevaluate him for Kellermann ), but he remains a credible character. and in fact his sentimental crisis is well done, it involved me.

the problems are all about the overall design of the story. DPC lacks the awareness that "less is more" almost always, there is often an excess in reactions, drama and information. if in the end I consider two of the theoretically most important moments of the game as two of the worst scenes, I cannot be satisfied ..

I pretend one of the two did not happen, the second I hope does not do too much damage

Drama is the key to DPC's stories though. Less is not enough where drama is concerned, there is obviously a line for each of us that determines too much drama, but it's different for each of us.

So far I'm loving all the drama, even the Maya/Josy drama and Maya's dad drama, even the Jill/Tybalt drama. I'm looking forward to their resolutions. It'll be heavenly to see Tybalt put into his place, making this whole blackmail episode worth it to see his destruction. I watched the mc punch Tybalt in the face multiple times (I then rewound it because my mc is a good boy who just happens to fuck a lot of girls).

The fact that DPC knew the replay button on Tybalt face punching would be warranted is a testimony to him knowing what he is doing.

 

[Kellermann]

Drama is the key to DPC's stories though. Less is not enough where drama is concerned, there is obviously a line for each of us that determines too much drama, but it's different for each of us.

So far I'm loving all the drama, even the Maya/Josy drama and Maya's dad drama, even the Jill/Tybalt drama. I'm looking forward to their resolutions. It'll be heavenly to see Tybalt put into his place, making this whole blackmail episode worth it to see his destruction. I watched the mc punch Tybalt in the face multiple times (I then rewound it because my mc is a good boy who just happens to fuck a lot of girls).

The fact that DPC knew the replay button on Tybalt face punching would be warranted is a testimony to him knowing what he is doing.

I don't know why, but I actually don't care all that much about Tybalt or putting him in his place. Maybe because we share a totally healthy love of watermelon. I just want him out of my life, so my Jill playthrough MC can see her naked, that's all. I don't particularly want to see him suffer. I reserve those feelings for Prof. Burke. His actions, especially against my sweet Mona, put him higher on my list of people who need retribution.

I did enjoy that Tybalt punch a little too much though.
Much like after butt-fucking Quinn, I felt pretty good afterwards and didn't really hold that much of a grudge anymore. Part of my lack of hate may be due to the fact that I'm already fucking his mother.

 

[AchedCroissant]

Happy Holidays!

It's been a very weird and possibly dark year for all of us.
But even when things are dark in our lives, we should appreciate the things that aren't and find something that keeps us going.
For me, creating this game has been a way to get through 2020. It's brought me a lot of joy through all the ups and downs.
Thank you all for the support you've shown me this year.
I remember by this time, last year, I was scared as hell for jumping ship to work on this game full-time.
You're literally the reason I can keep doing this for a living and I hope my past, current, and future efforts will show you how much your support means to me.
It's not taken for granted and it never will be.

Cheers to all of you maggot brothers and HOT sisters!
Merry Christmas and Happy holidays!
And if you're not checking in until 2021, have a wonderful new year!

Dr PinkCake

MC: This is so awkward

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I think a lot of people are mistaking good characterization for good writing. DPC can create good characters, it's just when he set's them to act out a story that it all falls apart imho.

I'm playing the new chapter of Leap of Faith right now, and the difference is amazing. I'm enjoying the game, I don't constantly have my guard up, expecting the author to slip in some useless or hurtful piece of drama just to be edgy. Even the Steph situation doesn't come off nearly as absurd as some of DPC's tortured contrivances.

DPC is quite the interesting study as a writer/creator. They do make very good renders and the scenes are always well designed, well lit, and populated to really give off an authentic feel which serves to pull you in to the story, and I also feel that they do a good job in creating compelling and interesting characters that you easily become invested in and that the story (for the most part) works well and is engaging with good and amusing dialogue. However, where I feel the biggest issue lies is with plot problems, namely inconsistencies, contrivances, and pacing.

So I think that they can certainly be praised for good characterisation and a good overall story, but plot problems and contrivances are more the issue and are what can weigh it down.

I don't like Derek as a character (even if I decided to reevaluate him for Kellermann ), but he remains a credible character. and in fact his sentimental crisis is well done, it involved me.

Derek just seems so cartoonish to me that it's hard for me to like him much. His buffoonish and clownish behaviour doesn't entertain me because it seems too outlandish and I'm honestly a bit tired of these idiot savant best friend/wingman of the MC characters in these games.

 

[shazba]

I don't know why, but I actually don't care all that much about Tybalt or putting him in his place. Maybe because we share a totally healthy love of watermelon. I just want him out of my life, so my Jill playthrough MC can see her naked, that's all. I don't particularly want to see him suffer. I reserve those feelings for Prof. Burke. His actions, especially against my sweet Mona, put him higher on my list of people who need retribution.

I did enjoy that Tybalt punch a little too much though.
Much like after butt-fucking Quinn, I felt pretty good afterwards and didn't really hold that much of a grudge anymore. Part of my lack of hate may be due to the fact that I'm already fucking his mother.

All very good points.

I felt robbed at the swift MC/Tommy resolution, but then I got over it pretty quick, and Tommy irked me more than Tibbie, so maybe just a little destruction on his behalf may be acceptable.

Derek just seems so cartoonish to me that it's hard for me to like him much. His buffoonish and clownish behaviour doesn't entertain me because it seems too outlandish and I'm honestly a bit tired of these idiot savant best friend/wingman of the MC characters in these games.

The idiot friend in all these games is annoying, but Derek nails his character in my mind. I love him - no homo.

Another great sidekick is Belle in Long Live the Princess, she's so nasty (in a good way)!

 

[felicemastronzo]

For someone who's so good at writing engaging characters DPC always seem's to fail with his villain's.

Imagine if he had written Tybalt as something other than a buffoonish richie rich with a painted on tan? If he has to lean on stereotypes then make him like a stock aristocrat,

Always impeccably polite, if not warmly so
Unflappable, stiff upper lip and all that.
A wicked, biting sarcasm and a dry humor

A character like that would be a much more viable rival for Jill and a worthy opponent for MC.

The antagonist is a key part of a successful story. Imagine something like Die Hard without Hans Gruber or Silence of the Lambs without Hannibal Lector? Instead we get Tybalt's, Psycho Killers, and Christian Hitler.

it's a bit like the fate of all threats here

the same goes for Burke

absolutely it would also be acceptable in the context of a "comedy", but then it is inevitable not to take seriously the threat they should represent.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Even though Jill likes the MC, she knows he's hanging with the wrong crowd (in her opinion), she has already written off the DIKs based on her experience with Rusty and seeing the others' behavior. So when Tybalt gives her these stories, it only fuels her concerns.

She's torn between what she feels and what she thinks is the truth (as told to her by Tybalt).

She's preoccupied in the auditorium and focuses on her music concerns before intending to talk about the Tybalt issue but then loses her window - she kinda procrastinates about it (who wants to have that kind of conversation anyway). The fact that he showed up with a black eye didn't help his cause much...

She unintentionally meets him at the library and the Tybalt conversation is not one to have in front of friends.

She enjoys his company on the picnic but the Tybalt conversation would have been hanging over her head the whole time. She knew she had to initiate it but she would have been dreading it. When the MC goes to kiss her she fucks up her entire approach to the subject and even admits it came out wrong. Then she tells him and he reacts.

In her consistent motherly fashion, she was trying to protect the mc from trouble, trouble that she believes he caused and he even admits to.

There's nothing wrong or poorly written about any of this. She's a 21 year old woman falling in love but the target of her affections is setting off red flags all over the place. Is he a trouble maker or is he a victim? But she wants him! Emotions can be motherfuckers, making it hard to see straight and to think straight.

by making an effort, we can accept everything.

but it's not like Jill to cover up a crime without even hearing the other version IMMEDIATELY!
not even the excuse of blinding love is valid, because she does it anyway, whatever her relationship with MC is.

but even with the justification of love, it makes no sense. it is an extreme sacrifice that is unrealistic. Jill would decide to lose MC (not dating him, not talking to him again means giving up on him) for fear of losing him, it makes no sense. it's drama to have drama
all the more so since it's a decision that doesn't last a minute after Jill has expressed it


if Jill believed Tybalt, as it seems, it would be much more real that she no longer wants to deal with MC

 

[DavDR]

it's a bit like the fate of all threats here

the same goes for Burke

absolutely it would also be acceptable in the context of a "comedy", but then it is inevitable not to take seriously the threat they should represent.

This isn't a comedy though. As Kellerman pointed out, DPC is going to throw darkness into anything he does. And the juxtaposition of the dark threat with the buffoonish comedy just doesn't work. Viable antagonist would also eliminate the need for these awful plot contrivances, leaving the story much stronger.

 

[felicemastronzo]

This isn't a comedy though. As Kellerman pointed out, DPC is going to throw darkness into anything he does. And the juxtaposition of the dark threat with the buffoonish comedy just doesn't work. Viable antagonist would also eliminate the need for these awful plot contrivances, leaving the story much stronger.

Unfortunately

it's the double context that doesn't work

Burke cannot be the cockolded husband and simultaneously the criminal mastermind of the BR.

Tybalt can't be the one who snacks with his sex toy watermelon and a serious threat to MC and Jill's relationship at the same time.

no one in the game takes them seriously and should I take them seriously as a player?

 

[Kz87]

The main antagonist is Vinny, imho. The scenes, where both him and MC stand on the stairway in the DIKs house in front of everyone, hints about it.

 

[shazba]

This isn't a comedy though. As Kellerman pointed out, DPC is going to throw darkness into anything he does. And the juxtaposition of the dark threat with the buffoonish comedy just doesn't work. Viable antagonist would also eliminate the need for these awful plot contrivances, leaving the story much stronger.

Except we don't know that. DPC hasn't written 5 games that all end in tragedy, he hasn't written 3 games that end in tragedy, he hasn't even written 2 games that end in tragedy... He's written one game that had a singular, unavoidable tragic element.

The dark threat has been invented by the people on this board. It's a comedy drama, you gotta stop flinching at your shadow and enjoy it for what it is (or don't enjoy it depending on taste), but to keep fearing calamity where it is not is only ruining your own experience (unless you get off on the adrenaline rush, in which case, fear away).

no one in the game takes them seriously and should I take them seriously as a player?

The answer is, no, don't take it so seriously. Enjoy it for what it is, a comedy with over-the-top drama. Fuck as many women as you can and get out before the house burns down!

And if you're in to necro, go back and fuck the charred corpses.