VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

I appreciate an essay post more than anyone but I think you read my post you're replying to without reading the one I made before it because I answer most of these questions with the benefit of it I'll link it here. I'll very shortly answer a couple of the big mistakes you make about my own views though because these are common to most of the people who quote-unquote "defend" Quinn and her actions.

1. No one is trying to justify Quinn's behavior, and no one could, she's a huge mega-bitch who makes huge mega-mistakes What most of us are trying to do, and I'll speak and repeat for myself, is offer an alternative subjective view to Quinn's actions in light of what we know about her background and motivations. You can take that or leave that as an analysis but you seem to be under a lot of false assumptions that people who like Quinn ignore everything about her and take some orthodox and counter-factual view of her that's just not true.

2. We undoubtedly have enough evidence to support a legitimate alternate take on Quinn from how she's commonly portrayed as a villain, which would be the rain scene, the hangout scene and the ending scene of episode 7 where if you're on her path she looks up at the drugs as though she's reconsidering what she's doing because of the MC's actions. To say that her personality is very clearly established already, when we can literally see her personality shifting in the game depending on the choices you as a player take with her, is ridiculous. The Quinn that you will see as the game progresses when not on her path, will be and already is wildly different from the Quinn I will see as someone who is on her path.

If you read my former post I linked and want an actual back and forth on this I'd be happy to keep going and answer everything you posted, it'll probably annoy everyone with the length of our posts but that hasn't stopped me before

The truth is we know virtually nothing about Quinn's background and motivation. It would appear, based on a single flashback scene, that her formative years may have been spent in a drug den with an addict mother and dealing father and somehow she is still connected to the business. The rest is all inference. What her relationship with Riona really is, the extent to which Quinn is capable of feeling empathy, etc. is hard to say. She appears to be softening to the MC, that's for sure, but what's really going on in her head we just don't know.

 

[goldenrule91]

The truth is we know virtually nothing about Quinn's background and motivation. It would appear, based on a single flashback scene, that her formative years may have been spent in a drug den with an addict mother and dealing father and somehow she is still connected to the business. The rest is all inference. What her relationship with Riona really is, the extent to which Quinn is capable of feeling empathy, etc. is hard to say. She appears to be softening to the MC, that's for sure, but what's really going on in her head we just don't know.

I fully agree and I mentioned the fact that we basically know nothing. The disconnect here seems to be that people don't like the mere possibility that Quinn isn't the literal devil Even theorizing that not being the case sparks a lot of heated discussion. It's really not as if those us who view Quinn in a slightly more understanding and empathetic way are pulling shit out of thin air. You can say our views are only based on a single flashback scene or whatever to try and diminish it, but for those of us who are familiar with the kinds of places Quinn appears to have come from, we immediately understood a lot more about her than her actions imply. I've honestly given up so much ground in these Quinn debates to the other side to try and be good faith but it's kind of shocking that people still have a one-dimensional view of her character after the drug den flashback, her reaction to Tommy, the rain scene, the hangout including the kiss and her falling asleep on the MC's chest, her cluck reaction to taking the alcohol, her jealous reaction to MC and Sage fucking at the party, the final scenes of episode 7 if you're on her path and she looks up at the drugs, etc. There's so much there that I don't even know where to start.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who are against Quinn have even seen this shit, I mean I've literally never had a discussion with someone who dislikes Quinn about the reason she doesn't like kissing, or the reason she doesn't stay over at other people's rooms, or anything that is really personal or interesting to her character. What does someone who dislikes Quinn think about those facets of her character? How do they affect or reflect on her motivations? I don't know. All I keep hearing about is how Quinn is a big evil pimp gurl who slap Riona for no reason I guess, and if you even try to figure out why with the information you have then people get angry

 

[Prince of Depression]

If you play chick route, you haven't much interaction with Quinn and for this route she definitely look like a villian.
This isn't the same for Dick Route, right?

 

[aslknaslknd]

I fully agree and I mentioned the fact that we basically know nothing. The disconnect here seems to be that people don't like the mere possibility that Quinn isn't the literal devil Even theorizing that not being the case sparks a lot of heated discussion. It's really not as if those us who view Quinn in a slightly more understanding and empathetic way are pulling shit out of thin air. You can say our views are only based on a single flashback scene or whatever to try and diminish it, but for those of us who are familiar with the kinds of places Quinn appears to have come from, we immediately understood a lot more about her than her actions imply. I've honestly given up so much ground in these Quinn debates to the other side to try and be good faith but it's kind of shocking that people still have a one-dimensional view of her character after the drug den flashback, her reaction to Tommy, the rain scene, the hangout including the kiss and her falling asleep on the MC's chest, her cluck reaction to taking the alcohol, her jealous reaction to MC and Sage fucking at the party, the final scenes of episode 7 if you're on her path and she looks up at the drugs, etc. There's so much there that I don't even know where to start.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who are against Quinn have even seen this shit, I mean I've literally never had a discussion with someone who dislikes Quinn about the reason she doesn't like kissing, or the reason she doesn't stay over at other people's rooms, or anything that is really personal or interesting to her character. What does someone who dislikes Quinn think about those facets of her character? How do they affect or reflect on her motivations? I don't know. All I keep hearing about is how Quinn is a big evil pimp gurl who slap Riona for no reason I guess, and if you even try to figure out why with the information you have then people get angry

I dislike Quinn because I disagree with her actions and choices but I do think she's one of the more interesting and fleshed out characters in the game. I also agree most people have an weird extreme hate boner for her as well which is really weird.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Step 1: Have a vagina

It doesn't seem to be such a fumdamental requirement.... A big penis works fine

 

[mamameolhando]

If you play chick route, you haven't much interaction with Quinn and for this route she definitely look like a villian.
This isn't the same for Dick Route, right?

Honestly she doesn't looks like a vilan to me at all, on any path. This is more about point of view than anything else.

 

[DirtyMario]

It doesn't seem to be such a fumdamental requirement.... A big penis works fine

Step 1: Act like you have a vagina

 

[mamameolhando]

Step 1: Act like you have a vagina

this guy get it

 

[goldenrule91]

If you play chick route, you haven't much interaction with Quinn and for this route she definitely look like a villian.
This isn't the same for Dick Route, right?

Yeah if you play CHICK then Quinn is basically the main antagonist. For DIK, you get a lot more scenes with her and I'll let you decide whether she's still the villain in that route. I can't say she's still not a villain otherwise I'll get even more people jumping down my dick so I won't

I dislike Quinn because I disagree with her actions and choices but I do think she's one of the more interesting and fleshed out characters in the game. I also agree most people have an weird extreme hate boner for her as well which is really weird.

That's totally legitimate and the most honest take on Quinn that someone can have. Her actions and choices are shitty, the only difference between you and I is that I might think the reasons for her taking those actions and choices are more understandable, not justified, but more understandable and thus to me more sympathetic. That's about it

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

Finally a non-controversial opinion we can all agree with in this thread



This the same patreon that votes for Madame content? Shocker I think Josy and Maya take a popularity hit because of their story but both their models are great and their personalities, when separated from each other, are really fun. I'm not a fan of when they're together because their anxieties about their relationship and all that kind of overshadow things and it becomes less fun imo.

I'm one of DPC's patreons and to be fair, I've only seen options to vote for how we interact with Madame, not whether or not Madame is a character or whether she should appear in an episode. I'm not one of DPC's highest-tier supporters, though, so perhaps at that level, there are more choices.

Having said that, you're right. Maya and Josy tend not to be very popular. I love them both and am especially smitten with Maya, myself. I think you're right about their appearances together, but I also think it comes down to many players simply prefer games in which they (as MC) are the center of the universe and the only character to whom anyone else can be attracted. If any other character is having sex, particularly with one of the MCs LIs, the player's sexual jealousy overrides any other consideration. I find the notion immature and completely unrealistic (after all, if we develop feelings for multiple LIs and enjoy sex with multiple partners, why should it surprise or shock us that other people might also develop feelings for multiple LIs and enjoy sex with multiple partners), but it appears to be the prevailing attitude. That and the fact that some players have expressed a clear dislike for homosexual characters, in which they lump Maya and to a certain extent Josy.

Before I get attacked for the statements above, I'm sure plenty of players have perfectly mundane reasons for not being so thrilled with Maya and Josy, too. They're not as glamorous, they're too thin, whatever, whatever. The sexual jealousy thing is more my inference based on reading lots of comments and the general freakout over so-called NTR.

 

[Harem Trooper]

I played until the scene where you have to decide to date to date Maya/Josey or Jade.
From my experience I guess you wont have a harem end from this game and you probably lock yourself out from the rest of the other girls like Jill and Isabella ?

 

[weirdscix]

Honestly she doesn't looks like a vilan to me at all, on any path. This is more about point of view than anything else.

So dealing drugs, blackmail, bullying, prostitution not enough?

 

[DirtyMario]

Yeah if you play CHICK then Quinn is basically the main antagonist. For DIK, you get a lot more scenes with her and I'll let you decide whether she's still the villain in that route. I can't say she's still not a villain otherwise I'll get even more people jumping down my dick so I won't



That's totally legitimate and the most honest take on Quinn that someone can have. Her actions and choices are shitty, the only difference between you and I is that I might think the reasons for her taking those actions and choices are more understandable, not justified, but more understandable and thus to me more sympathetic. That's about it

I feel like we discussed exactly this like 10 pages back.
Feels like this thread is like a perpetuum mobile of gossip about people that don't exist.

Actually no, that's exactly what it is.

 

[aykarin]

I'll take the exact opposite position and say that the people who are "delving deeper into her motivations" are missing out on a large part of the story because they are too busy desperately searching for excuses for Quinn's horrible behaviour. The most common of which is framing her as a sympathetic victim of circumstance because she came from a broken home, which works because the knee-jerk reaction to hearing that someone had a hard childhood is to view them with pity and sympathy.

Quinn betrays people who are dumb enough to trust her. That's an ongoing theme in the game, and a core aspect of her character. Quinn betrayed Tommy in order to try to sell drugs to the preps. She betrayed Sage in order to whore out the HOTs and use them as an opportunity to sell drugs. Quinn will tell you that Camilla was the one in the glory hole (if you took that route), even though Camilla only agreed to work for Quinn if she was anonymous. One of the very first things Quinn does in the game is blackmail the MC into stripping naked under threat of screaming for help and calling him a pervert, and when he complies, she not only breaks her word but also pushes him out into the streets naked. She's been betraying people the entire game. Often just for the fun of it, which is something she has flat out told us in the first episode.

Hurting the people she likes in order to control or punish them is another well established aspect of Quinn's character. Quinn tasered the MC in the throat until he passed out, and she will knee him in the balls if he refuses her sexual advances. So her slapping Riona is par for the course. But somehow you are trying to spin things so Quinn striking Riona is an example of Quinn protecting Riona? That's ridiculous. Riona was the one trying to protect Quinn, by telling her not to bring in Maya and Mona. And she was right. Quinn will now be under scrutiny from Sage because of what happened with Maya and Mona, which is going to make things real hard to pay off their drug debt. Which is an even larger problem now that Quinn managed to lose her last pickup.

We don't need to know every single detail of Quinn's life to know what kind of a person she is, because she's already demonstrated that quite well. Quinn is trash. She is the trashiest character since Marjory from Fraggle Rock. Actually... that's unfair to Marjory, as although she was a literal trash heap, she was a kind soul who helped those in need. Quinn is the exact opposite of that, which actually makes her trashier than a talking trash heap. Tommy was worried about Josy joining the HOTs, and Quinn used that as an opportunity to tease him instead of reassuring him by offering to look out for Josy. Maya went to Quinn for help with tuition, and Quinn lied to her and tormented her for her own amusement. And we've already talked about how Quinn takes advantage of Riona's vulnerabilities.

Yeah, I agree that Quinn is a really bad person. Her tragic background can justify (to an extent) bad life decisions, but cannot justify her being a manipulative bitch to other people, betraying them and using them to fulfill her own goals.

That doesn't mean though that you can't like Quinn. I personally love Quinn, she is by far my favorite LI - and it's not despite her character, but rather BECAUSE of it. I like Quinn for her being a bitch. Her many intimate moments or when she clearly regrets some of her actions show that she has depth as a character and she isn't one-dimensional. She is still a very bad person, but that's fine with me (and I guess with many other players who like her a lot). I hope that the relationship between her and MC will continue to develop further in the new chapter. My guess is that sooner or later she will get some sort of 'redemption arc' (maybe leading to some tragic accident). But when it comes to me, I don't need Quinn to be redeemed into a good girl. I want more of bad Quinn whom I find very interesting and hot.

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

I fully agree and I mentioned the fact that we basically know nothing. The disconnect here seems to be that people don't like the mere possibility that Quinn isn't the literal devil Even theorizing that not being the case sparks a lot of heated discussion. It's really not as if those us who view Quinn in a slightly more understanding and empathetic way are pulling shit out of thin air. You can say our views are only based on a single flashback scene or whatever to try and diminish it, but for those of us who are familiar with the kinds of places Quinn appears to have come from, we immediately understood a lot more about her than her actions imply. I've honestly given up so much ground in these Quinn debates to the other side to try and be good faith but it's kind of shocking that people still have a one-dimensional view of her character after the drug den flashback, her reaction to Tommy, the rain scene, the hangout including the kiss and her falling asleep on the MC's chest, her cluck reaction to taking the alcohol, her jealous reaction to MC and Sage fucking at the party, the final scenes of episode 7 if you're on her path and she looks up at the drugs, etc. There's so much there that I don't even know where to start.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who are against Quinn have even seen this shit, I mean I've literally never had a discussion with someone who dislikes Quinn about the reason she doesn't like kissing, or the reason she doesn't stay over at other people's rooms, or anything that is really personal or interesting to her character. What does someone who dislikes Quinn think about those facets of her character? How do they affect or reflect on her motivations? I don't know. All I keep hearing about is how Quinn is a big evil pimp gurl who slap Riona for no reason I guess, and if you even try to figure out why with the information you have then people get angry

I'm with you. Look, I find it hard not to like Quinn, as she's just so goddamned sexy. When I was in my early 20s I fell for a woman who was manipulative, narcissistic, and terribly mean. She didn't deal drugs or run a prostitution ring or anything (doing those things don't inherently make you a bad person, in my opinion, unless you're trafficking people against their will or dealing to children or something), but she was not a good person. Everyone thought so and wondered what the hell was wrong with me. But she was hot and she knew how to pull my strings. It took me the better part of a year before I was able to see the situation clearly and get the hell away from her. Depending on how Quinn's story evolves, the same may happen for us in BaDIK.

 

[anonymoussposter]

It can't be that unsurprising, they become locked to a single affinity quite early in the story. As well as being locked together in their own little relationship.

A throuple that you build around the MC, I can be invested in, being the third wheel in a lesbian relationship, is just not appealing to me, and it wouldn't surprise me if many people feel the same way.

Maya is also not very appealing, her looks, her personality and also how forced she is in the story. Talk to Maya, talk to Maya, talk to Maya, no thanks I'd rather just go to sleep.

Most of the players on the throuple are just waiting for a solo Josy path. I think we all are.

FREE JOSY!

Agreementate my fren

 

[mamameolhando]

So dealing drugs, blackmail, bullying, prostitution not enough?

Not really
drugs -> alcohol is more more harmful than weed. she did'nt use the coke yet and the syringe we don't know what it was.
blackmail -> more like a warning
bullying -> tough love
prostitution -> all of them willingly and we all played GTA so don't pretend that your moral bar about prostitutes is high
the only low point of quinn was when she lost control and slapped rionna.
like I said point of view

 

[weirdscix]

Not really
drugs -> alcohol is more more harmful than weed. she did'nt use the coke yet and the syringe we don't know what it was.
blackmail -> more like a warning
bullying -> tough love
prostitution -> all of them willingly and we all played GTA so don't pretend that your moral bar about prostitutes is high
the only low point of quinn was when she lost control and slapped rionna.
like I said point of view

Drugs -> Dealing drugs, criminal
Blackmail -> Illegal
Bullying -> Riona, Maya and the girl who was forced to leave, it's not tough love, it's called being a cunt
Prostitution -> She was obviously coercing the girls to do it

 

[goldenrule91]

I'm one of DPC's patreons and to be fair, I've only seen options to vote for how we interact with Madame, not whether or not Madame is a character or whether she should appear in an episode. I'm not one of DPC's highest-tier supporters, though, so perhaps at that level, there are more choices.

Having said that, you're right. Maya and Josy tend not to be very popular. I love them both and am especially smitten with Maya, myself. I think you're right about their appearances together, but I also think it comes down to many players simply prefer games in which they (as MC) are the center of the universe and the only character to whom anyone else can be attracted. If any other character is having sex, particularly with one of the MCs LIs, the player's sexual jealousy overrides any other consideration. I find the notion immature and completely unrealistic (after all, if we develop feelings for multiple LIs and enjoy sex with multiple partners, why should it surprise or shock us that other people might also develop feelings for multiple LIs and enjoy sex with multiple partners), but it appears to be the prevailing attitude. That and the fact that some players have expressed a clear dislike for homosexual characters, in which they lump Maya and to a certain extent Josy.

Before I get attacked for the statements above, I'm sure plenty of players have perfectly mundane reasons for not being so thrilled with Maya and Josy, too. They're not as glamorous, they're too thin, whatever, whatever. The sexual jealousy thing is more my inference based on reading lots of comments and the general freakout over so-called NTR.

Very interesting, I kind of want confirmation from someone in DPC's higher tiers on whether more Madame content was even an option or whether there were only votes on what kind of Madame content was coming. Maybe she's actually a significant story character and the option for less of her in favor of one of the other girls at the club, like the obvious choice Nicole, wasn't given to patrons for that reason. That's what we call a big think

As for Maya and Josy, it's definitely the case that a lot of players get turned off at the merest insinuation of NTR, even if it isn't really. I mean to be fair, the MC throws a massive and frankly embarrassing bitchfit over it himself so he's clearly not a fan

My own personal dislike of the whole throuple situation though, as it's presented, is that it's honestly too realistic. What happens with Maya and Josy, and then Maya, Josy and the MC if he joins the relationship, is so bogged down in the realistic drama of that dynamic that it detracts from the fun and sexy scenes when they roll around. I can best explain what I mean by contrasting the Maya/Josy relationship with Bella's: Bella's relationship has plenty of emotion, implied tragedy, drama and stakes, but the tone is set so pitch perfect that even when we get inside Bella's head during a sex scene and know exactly how hesitant she is, it's still incredibly erotic and makes you want to push further into the relationship. With Maya and Josy, we don't even have to get inside their heads to see how awkward the sex is and how uncertain they are with each other. An example of this being the solo lesbian scene with Maya and Josy where they're trying to reclaim the same sexual excitement they had before and Josy literally has to coax an orgasm from Maya like she's a fucking stranger or something That kind of shit does not make my pp hard, and it's not because the MC isn't at the center of all things, it's because he's at the center of a failed lesbian relationship that's being held together by elbow grease and inertia.

I'm very aware of the deeper themes in their relationship having to do with homosexuality and the sexual implications of that, including the guilt Maya might be feeling after being raised like she was, and the stunting effect that can have on her sexual development. I don't have a problem with exploring those themes myself, but they're completely overshadowing the fun and sexy moments that the throuple should be exploring. The pitch is way, way off, and this is a big reason why stories with harems and such are never written realistically, because yeah you can have some hot scenes with each of your 7 harem members, but then you have 7 fucking characters with feelings and motivations and desires and conflicts to work through before you can get back to fucking them If you want to do that with any kind of depth or realism, you need to get the balance so perfect that by the time you get to the next sex scene, you're not completely burnt out by the character's problems.

Unfortunately, as of right now, DPC hasn't achieved that with Maya and Josy. By the time the Maya sex scene rolls around at the end of the episode, I'm still thinking about the problems with her dad, so I'm not really in the mood for sex, which is incredibly realistic because that's how real relationships lose their spark. You wanna fuck your wife/girlfriend/whatever but you've been dealing with work/family/whatever bullshit all week, money is on your mind, her mother has been giving you shit, and it gets hard to work up the motivation to do so.

Anyway I just wrote another essay about shit no one cares about because I'm on holiday and have too much time but that's my take on why Maya and Josy doesn't work and they should just split up so we can bang both or either of them without all the drama

I'm with you. Look, I find it hard not to like Quinn, as she's just so goddamned sexy. When I was in my early 20s I fell for a woman who was manipulative, narcissistic, and terribly mean. She didn't deal drugs or run a prostitution ring or anything (doing those things don't inherently make you a bad person, in my opinion, unless you're trafficking people against their will or dealing to children or something), but she was not a good person. Everyone thought so and wondered what the hell was wrong with me. But she was hot and she knew how to pull my strings. It took me the better part of a year before I was able to see the situation clearly and get the hell away from her. Depending on how Quinn's story evolves, the same may happen for us in BaDIK.

Our boners are the same bro, don't worry. I've told this story before in this thread but a girl I went out with in high school basically blew a guy in the school bathroom to "see where their friendship was going" and I still had feelings for the bitch even after I dropped her, some guys just like to touch fire. I'm definitely open to the possibility that Quinn is going to drop a massive bomb on us regardless of whether you're on her path or not, and really that's just the nature of people like her. We still gotta touch that fire tho

 

[Ilhares]

From my experience I guess you wont have a harem end from this game

This part is correct. Despite all the (literal) fuckery going on, there is no 'harem' route. DPC doesn't seem big on that sort of thing.

A throuple that you build around the MC, I can be invested in, being the third wheel in a lesbian relationship, is just not appealing to me, and it wouldn't surprise me if many people feel the same way.

I'm good with it. I'll be there for a little bit of stability, but they need each other for the emotional support. I'm the kickstand on the bike.