VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[PashafromRussia]

I'm sorry for the sudden mid-month changes, but there is some exciting news coming soon, which is why I need to carry out these changes. These are the changes to the current tiers, effective Friday, December 10.

Apparently, he hires a team and he raises prices so early, back in December.

 

[Klopdwerg]

Still generally agree.

Spoiler: Sage

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Spoiler: Maya & Josy

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Spoiler: Jill

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Spoiler: Tybalt

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Spoiler: Madame

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Spoiler: Zoey

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Believe me, you and I are hoping for the same thing. I just don't see a way for it it happen given how things have unfolded.

To extend the original metaphor, it would be akin to the jeweler forcing us to pick between a bunch of unset gems then foiling the one we pick. We were already sold on it, what does the extra shine accomplish?

Beats me. Still, as therapeutic as it's been to talk through my Zoey concerns, I should probably give it a rest until we actually see her in action. I'll try to shut up about it for now.

Regarding Jill, she doesn't like it that the MC is dating others. Even a bit jealous, but she doesn't make a big deal out of it because she's falling for the MC and don't want to push him away, just very unsure. If you took the dickpic she will even get jealous and start doubting. Then again, i didn't know till a post few days ago that even then you can continue her path and choose her. Stating that she really fell in love with the MC

 

[Klopdwerg]

So this has probably been discussed before, but the HOT's "Free Tuition", and the "Mona Scholarship"... I mean we all kinda assume that's the same thing, part of some dodge deal that Burke is doing with Quinn.

But in the news article (with "Tibalt" and the "Texas Chess Massacre"), the article on the Burkes touches on the scholarships and there's Stephen's denial that anything is expected of the student receiving the scholarship:

"...To address the recent concerns raised about the scholarships being quid pro quo between the donors and acceptors, Burke promptly replies: No. Never. That's preposterous. The student may be introduced to the donor, but there are no obligations they need to fulfil after accepting the scholarship..."​

From our perspective, this simply draws attention to the free tuition again, and that Burke is the one pulling the strings. If it really is a scholarship that is paid for, these "donors" could be a conglomerate of old horny bastards who know Stephen and all put a share in to receive a share in the "perks".

That said, if real money is changing hands, it's interesting to consider the logistics:

• Maya's course, as an example, is about 40K (assuming a 4 year course at 5K a semester,- mc mentioned his 5K would just about cover a semester of Maya's course),
• The mc paid a premium price for a threesome with Quinn and Riona ($500 - he mentions he took that from his own college expenses and repaid it from the 5K),
• Lets assume the girls are going at half the rate of the Quinn threesome to these old geezers, so $250 a fuck
• So it means each girl needs to be fucked 160 times across their duration of their course, basically fucking one of these old blokes roughly every 10 days, for 4 years straight.

Mona was probably right to bail.

On the other side of the coin, why would these horny old fuckers for these skanks?

While we are at the topic of Burke and his presumed involvement in Quinn's restaurant.

He told Jade he fucked 3 students. Which 3 do you think the are?
Could it be Quinn herself at first to start of the whole bussiness?

 

[Darg]

I think that DPC really messed up with Tybalt. If he had written him as a serious rival for Jill's affections, and as someone that the MC could take seriously as a rival, it would have been a much better story.

I dont know about you, but i enjoy Tybalt what is he now. Its always funny when he show up on screen.
Though i hope end of ep. 8 will change him to be better (not go crazy, or be a dick) and try again with Jill if you only friends with her.

 

[DavDR]

I dont know about you, but i enjoy Tybalt what is he now. Its always funny when he show up on screen.
Though i hope end of ep. 8 will change him to be better (not go crazy, or be a dick) and try again with Jill if you only friends with her.

No, I don't enjoy Tybalt as he is in the game, I think he's a buffoon.

One of the hallmark's of a badly written story is the one dimensional, stereotypical antagonist. BaDIK really falls down on this one. Maya's Father, Tybalt, The Alpha's, and to a lesser extent Stephen Burke are all caricatures, not characters.

 

[mightybored]

Why were Jill's parents not at her recital? An alleged huge moment for her and they were not there? Jill invited her established friends she has had for years, all her library friends and MC.

A plot mistake in writing or is there a plot path here?

Jill's Mom was there.

 

[hakuna-matata]

I strongly suspect as much. Siblings, and all that. And she is so different from him, I can't imagine he is her favorite person.

She probably hates him as much as everyone else. Just the fact she never mentions a brother.....

 

[J.A.L.]

No, I don't enjoy Tybalt as he is in the game, I think he's a buffoon.

One of the hallmark's of a badly written story is the one dimensional, stereotypical antagonist. BaDIK really falls down on this one. Maya's Father, Tybalt, The Alpha's, and to a lesser extent Stephen Burke are all caricatures, not characters.

It´s OK to use archetypes. All writers use them from Homer to our days. But DPC usually uses stereotypes and clichés in characters and situations. And those are different things.

 

[DavDR]

It´s OK to use archetypes. All writers use them from Homer to our days. But DPC usually uses stereotypes and clichés in characters and situations. And those are different things.

It's one thing to start with archetypes and build a character from there, in fact one of my favorite novels used Jungian archetypes, but the author built upon that base and thereby created some very memorable characters.

DPC's villains are one trick ponys, while his other characters are more fully drawn. It's obvious he CAN create characters, he just doesn't always do it and I think that's one of the biggest weaknesses in his writing.

 

[Casiope]

According to the [official] walkthrough, the Others option is only available if you aren't in Josy's and Maya's relationship and don't have a successful relationship with Jill.

The official walkthrough is not very informative about the requirements to display the "Others" option. For instance, it does not appear if you have a relationship with Isabella and Jill only, your affinity also matters a lot. So I recommend you to take a look at the table in BHell's post on this subject.

 

[goldenrule91]

I know you're eager for a Quinn route,

but as the whole broccoli conversation points out Quinn is not offering a relationship right now. Hence Quinn is part of the Others branch. I wouldn't read more into it than that. There are still a bunch of variables that could matter within the branches. The Maya/Josy path had a lot of forked lewd scenes, for example. Likewise people who chose to be friends but still have feelings for Maya or Josy individually could be lumped in with Others as well if they don't pick a different LI. Quinn still has her own extensive set of variables, too.

It seems all but certain we're going to have to confirm our choice at some point in the future, and that would be a logical time for new paths to emerge. If Quinn is going to get a happy ending, that's when I would expect to see it start to take shape.

Just be patient and keep the faith until then. Maybe have some vegetables in the meantime, I hear they can be healthy for you.

Thanks for trying to allay my fears bro I'm just struggling to figure out the exact scope of the Others path if literally every girl on it is optional. On the one hand if you're pursuing Quinn and Lily and Nicole or are interested in Zoey etc. the Others path has the potential to be the GOAT path. On the other hand if you're not pursuing any of the girls, it can potentially be the Incel path That amount of variability is not cohesive to a narrative. Of course as a Quinn simp I'll stick around for any crumb of content and I'm happy about her unique variables but I think it's pretty unlikely any new paths will emerge, officially or unofficially. I think this is it and things are locked as is. Which means any kind of Broccoli Path would be purely picking around the edges of whatever the 'main' content of the Others path would be, which I can't even guess at.

The official walkthrough is not very informative about the requirements to display the "Others" option. For instance, it does not appear if you have a relationship with Isabella and Jill only, your affinity also matters a lot. So I recommend you to take a look at the table in BHell's post on this subject.

Thanks I totally missed that because I took a break while the site was malfunctioning. But I'm slightly hesitant to go against what the official walkthrough says about path requirements, even if the game itself has different requirements, because DPC writes the walkthrough after the episode and the game could be bugged and mistakenly show a path that players haven't qualified for. I'm saying all this without doing any testing for myself though so I'll check all the info before I wreck myself

 

[felicemastronzo]

It's absolutely a high end prostitution ring. It's coming, count on it. Because, if the money for the scholarships was just missing completely, that WOULD get noticed, and pretty quick. But having the quid-pro-quo aspect of rich donors paying for the girls, that could be kept secret for a lot longer. I mean, hey, the money is all above board, right, so all the nefarious stuff is easy to keep quiet.

if Burke simply diverts the scholarship from students who are actually deserving, to those who are deserving because of "extracurricular commitments," in the end the money isn't missing anywhere and it's also pretty hard to come up short.

it depends a lot on the criteria established for these scholarships and the control that there is on the allocation, if Burke takes care of everything who should notice?

what does it matter to donors that the scholarship goes to Camilla and not KRJ?

 

[11bjorn11]

Can someone tell me the acquirements for the 2d art from Jacob? I tried all paths but i'm not able to unlock them all

 

[felicemastronzo]

I think that DPC really messed up with Tybalt. If he had written him as a serious rival for Jill's affections, and as someone that the MC could take seriously as a rival, it would have been a much better story.

And before the conversation is smothered in hysterical cries of NTR, having Tybalt as a serious romantic threat does not necessarily mean that he has to BE a serious threat, Jill could still look at him as only a friend. But a serious Tybalt would be a much more flexible tool for an author to craft a story without ridiculous contrivances like the blackmail storyline. A few corny watermelon jokes are a high price to pay for burning such a useful character.

It was enough that Jill basically continued to believe him (obeying blackmail without believing in the threat is worse than believing in it), that she found Bella's intervention excessive, that she did not laugh at his dental impairment... that she did not humiliate him at his declaration of love

 

[Heycock]

Let's talk about sterotypes. As long as it's a common place to question a literary work for having sterotypes... the true is its used all the time in different types of narrative, and succesfully. Just think in the Simpsons. Pretty much every character it's a sterotype, Homer and Marge are sterotypes of american working class, Burns it's a sterotype of businesman class, Lisa is a sterotype of left wing, Joe Quimby of politicians and the chieff Wiggum of police. And i am not even starting with national stereotypes. Still the most succesfull tv show off all time.

But even further, by XIX Flaubert wrote Madame Bovary, wich later become "the first modern novel", a classic beetween classics. On it, Flaubert put a character, the pharmacist Monsieur Homais, a upstart burgoise, deceptive and ambitious. As such the character was never meant to be a genuely character but rather the description of an entire subgroup of people, a whole social class, as such, a sterotype. It wasn't the first time that sterotype was sued as long as it was a common concern in France at the XIX's. Stendhal, Balzac or Maupassant, all of them used the same stereotypes.

But let's go even further. Let's talk about the Iliad of Homer. On it a character is presented, Tersites. he is the only character who has no aristocratic routes, he is a plebeyan. He is the only character ugly, gummy, vulgar and stupid. As it was, an aristocratic poem about nobles made to entartain nobles, the Iliad build represent the lower class by making sterotypes of them. 2.800 years later noone complains.

So, what's the issue?. Well sterotypes are used to make comedy and specially social satire. As long as they are not a representation of a real individuals but a group of people, they allow to represent social conflicts and make social criticism.

And that's exactly what Badik does. Comedy and social satire. It does with the jocs, and the preps. Jocs are not all stupid, rich people are not all... ok, let's pretend they are not... not all of them are as shitty as Tybalt. Yet it doesn't matter couse it' social criticism, if the story want to have complex real people willuse characters as Quinn, Maya, etc. At different momments will use characters as a description of a social group in order to question an entire group practice or practice: bulliers, classism and homophobia.

So, if it's cool, why people complain?
Have you ever heard them complaining about the feminists?
Couse that's another sterotype used all the time and they are perfectely fine with that.

 

[Casiope]

Can someone tell me the acquirements for the 2d art from Jacob? I tried all paths but i'm not able to unlock them all

You need to have sex with Cathy in episode 5.

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

Let's talk about sterotypes. As long as it's a common place to question a literary work for having sterotypes... the true is its used all the time in different types of narrative, and succesfully. Just think in the Simpsons. Pretty much every character it's a sterotype, Homer and Marge are sterotypes of american working class, Burns it's a sterotype of businesman class, Lisa is a sterotype of left wing, Joe Quimby of politicians and the chieff Wiggum of police. And i am not even starting with national stereotypes. Still the most succesfull tv show off all time.

But even further, by XIX Flaubert wrote Madame Bovary, wich later become "the first modern novel", a classic beetween classics. On it, Flaubert put a character, the pharmacist Monsieur Homais, a upstart burgoise, deceptive and ambitious. As such the character was never meant to be a genuely character but rather the description of an entire subgroup of people, a whole social class, as such, a sterotype. It wasn't the first time that sterotype was sued as long as it was a common concern in France at the XIX's. Stendhal, Balzac or Maupassant, all of them used the same stereotypes.

But let's go even further. Let's talk about the Iliad of Homer. On it a character is presented, Tersites. he is the only character who has no aristocratic routes, he is a plebeyan. He is the only character ugly, gummy, vulgar and stupid. As it was, an aristocratic poem about nobles made to entartain nobles, the Iliad build represent the lower class by making sterotypes of them. 2.800 years later noone complains.

So, what's the issue?. Well sterotypes are used to make comedy and specially social satire. As long as they are not a representation of a real individuals but a group of people, they allow to represent social conflicts and make social criticism.

And that's exactly what Badik does. Comedy and social satire. It does with the jocs, and the preps. Jocs are not all stupid, rich people are not all... ok, let's pretend they are not... not all of them are as shitty as Tybalt. Yet it doesn't matter couse it' social criticism, if the story want to have complex real people willuse characters as Quinn, Maya, etc. At different momments will use characters as a description of a social group in order to question an entire group practice or practice: bulliers, classism and homophobia.

So, if it's cool, why people complain?
Have you ever heard them complaining about the feminists?
Couse that's another sterotype used all the time and they are perfectely fine with that.

This is a well thought out and written post. I haven't read Madame Bovary in years, although I'm pretty sure I have a copy around here somewhere on one of my bookshelves.

This is a hell of a post, with pretty good comparisons to boot, accurate too.

 

[J.A.L.]

This is a well thought out and written post. I haven't read Madame Bovary in years, although I'm pretty sure I have a copy around here somewhere on one of my bookshelves.

This is a hell of a post, with pretty good comparisons to boot, accurate too.

Don´t make the mistake of confusing archetypes with stereotypes, and worst of it, clichés. And don´t make the mistake of confusing wordiness with real knowledge. It only confuses fools.

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

Don´t make the mistake of confusing archetypes with stereotypes, and worst of it, clichés. And don´t make the mistake of confusing wordiness with real knowledge. It only confuses fools.

I get that, but still, using those references seemed like a good comparison to me, but I do get where you're coming from

 

[felicemastronzo]

Let's talk about sterotypes. As long as it's a common place to question a literary work for having sterotypes... the true is its used all the time in different types of narrative, and succesfully. Just think in the Simpsons. Pretty much every character it's a sterotype, Homer and Marge are sterotypes of american working class, Burns it's a sterotype of businesman class, Lisa is a sterotype of left wing, Joe Quimby of politicians and the chieff Wiggum of police. And i am not even starting with national stereotypes. Still the most succesfull tv show off all time.

But even further, by XIX Flaubert wrote Madame Bovary, wich later become "the first modern novel", a classic beetween classics. On it, Flaubert put a character, the pharmacist Monsieur Homais, a upstart burgoise, deceptive and ambitious. As such the character was never meant to be a genuely character but rather the description of an entire subgroup of people, a whole social class, as such, a sterotype. It wasn't the first time that sterotype was sued as long as it was a common concern in France at the XIX's. Stendhal, Balzac or Maupassant, all of them used the same stereotypes.

But let's go even further. Let's talk about the Iliad of Homer. On it a character is presented, Tersites. he is the only character who has no aristocratic routes, he is a plebeyan. He is the only character ugly, gummy, vulgar and stupid. As it was, an aristocratic poem about nobles made to entartain nobles, the Iliad build represent the lower class by making sterotypes of them. 2.800 years later noone complains.

So, what's the issue?. Well sterotypes are used to make comedy and specially social satire. As long as they are not a representation of a real individuals but a group of people, they allow to represent social conflicts and make social criticism.

And that's exactly what Badik does. Comedy and social satire. It does with the jocs, and the preps. Jocs are not all stupid, rich people are not all... ok, let's pretend they are not... not all of them are as shitty as Tybalt. Yet it doesn't matter couse it' social criticism, if the story want to have complex real people willuse characters as Quinn, Maya, etc. At different momments will use characters as a description of a social group in order to question an entire group practice or practice: bulliers, classism and homophobia.

So, if it's cool, why people complain?
Have you ever heard them complaining about the feminists?
Couse that's another sterotype used all the time and they are perfectely fine with that.

it seems to me a bit of an oversimplification though
would that mean that all fiction is the same? any story, since it is based more or less on the same characters, has the same value?

within stereotypes there are thousands of variations, some so successful that they have become the new stereotypes

the hero has been joined by the anti-hero, the female characters are no longer those of the 80s, the nerds from losers and that's it, they have become geeks, fascinated in their own way, and sometimes they are the undisputed protagonists.

If belonging to a certain role/stereotype already tells you 80% of the character there is something wrong, because it becomes a story that you have already read.

how many BADIk characters escape their stereotype? few, very few, almost none (Nick for example)
but it is not a problem, it's okay, just accept it