VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.11.1] [DrPinkCake]

[StreamSteam]

 

[ChipLecsap]

I disagree - assuming Derek really was sick and not just using a sniffle as an excuse to goof off. My main run already turned down both Sage and Jill so it's not like I was getting sex out of it either way, but I still think helping Sage is the right call simply because she needs immediate help and asked for it first; Jill's picnic can and should wait. That wouldn't change if Derek took Sage's role. The fundamental problem is that Jill's picnic request isn't reasonable.

She having a flu, All she need is a handkerchief and coldrex , and she is in a place with full of friends around her.
The only thing that is annoying about this, is that MC automatically tell her, he gonna visit her.
I don't know why folks make it this to be bigger than what it is. Girl you like show, up, ask you out on a date, you reject her, and she took it as you are not interested in her, simple.

If it was Mc's father who is sick, and Jill not understanding, I total get you point, but Sage is just a random girl , MC dating with multiple girls, Jill know this. She might simply not belive this and see it as an exuse.

And I know, it's not only unheard but it never even ever happened, that someone cancels a previous plan, over a better opportunity.

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

But the concert does not matter. I know, it's hard to accept it, but whether she succeed or fail, does not matter.
But that is funny, that you are willing to practice a Fucking song for her, in multiple time, but The one time she ask you out on a date you reject her for some misguided greater good

I wonder if later on in a future episode, whether or not you helped her will have an impact on a Jill-focused playthrough. I could imagine this resurfacing later in an MC-Jill argument or at some other moment of crisis. It seems such a pivotal story point for her as a character that it seems rather incredible it won't ever have some impact.

 

[sixart]

You can say that MC is willing to do basically anything for Jill, even practicing a song and play with her in a recital

Wow ! You make this sound like you would perform a live animal sacrifice during some dark chant... you are either interested in her or you are not...

but the one time he doesn't choose her over anything else she tells him to fuck off

Nope That's what folks read into this but actually what happens is she rejects you... man usually take this very very badly since their pride an' all

this will keep being discussed until after the game is complete...

You are probably right with this remark... though as for why is beyond me !?! One side takes their game theory as canon the other takes real life... where do these two actually meet ? ( in this case )

I wonder if later on in a future episode, whether or not you helped her will have an impact on a Jill-focused playthrough. I could imagine this resurfacing later in an MC-Jill argument or at some other moment of crisis

It doesn't make too much sense... Jill focused ? Why Sage ? If Sage no Jill... what argument could there be when nothing happened ? Maybe some kisses here and there... but that wouldn't result something like this... maybe in a spanish ( speaking ) telenovela

 

[StultusAnglicus]

 

[ChipLecsap]

It doesn't make too much sense... Jill focused ? Why Sage ? If Sage no Jill... what argument could there be when nothing happened ? Maybe some kisses here and there... but that wouldn't result something like this... maybe in a spanish ( speaking ) telenovela

I think, he was talking about the Concert . whether you help Jill or not, will it have an impact later on?!

 

[sixart]

I think, he was talking about the Concert . whether you help Jill or not, will it have an impact later on?!

On others route might be ( Bianca & Co. ) othewise... It still could lead to a relationship with Jill later on since we are still at the halfway mark But honestly since people doesn't seem to come to terms with the fact that this ain't a fucking harem game...

 

[Oliver Wendell Homely]

It doesn't make too much sense... Jill focused ? Why Sage ? If Sage no Jill... what argument could there be when nothing happened ? Maybe some kisses here and there... but that wouldn't result something like this... maybe in a spanish ( speaking ) telenovela

I was talking about helping Jill at her recital. Some have said whether you help her or not at her recital makes no difference in terms of her dating/having sex with the MC at the end of episode 8. The only thing that makes a difference is whether you do the picnic with her. My statement was: I wonder if later in the story, in a future episode, might helping Jill at her recital make a difference somehow. Nothing to do with Sage.

 

[sixart]

I was talking about helping Jill at her recital. Some have said whether you help her or not at her recital makes no difference in terms of her dating/having sex with the MC at the end of episode 8. The only thing that makes a difference is whether you do the picnic with her. My statement was: I wonder if later in the story, in a future episode, might helping Jill at her recital make a difference somehow. Nothing to do with Sage.

No you are right it has nothing to do with Sage but with Bianca & Co

 

[ename144]

Wouldn't we need to see season 3 or at least the next EP first I don't think DPC is just going to leave clues that big out in the open but maybe i'm wrong. As for the whole help Sage or date with Jill thing. They all have a prefect right to be upset MC can be upset because he already said he was going to help Sage and Jill comes up out of nowhere. Jill has every right to be upset because she took the time to plan something for the MC and he turns her down now I will add she could had text MC to see if he's doing anything. Jill still has a right to be upset about MC helping Sage even if he is doing a good thing after all the other HoT's can do what the MC did and plus Jill has no reason to give a fuck about Sage any way. And Sage has a right to be mad well mostly because she always mad

I completely disagree. If a girl shows up out of the blue asking me to drop everything and go on a picnic with her, she has absolutely no right to be upset if I am unable or unwilling to do so. She can certainly be disappointed, but if my acceptance was *that* important she should have checked with me before she put all that time and effort into planning and preparation!

Again, if Jill got the MC's approval beforehand only to be turned down when she actually arrived at the mansion, I would be far less critical of her subsequent behavior. But she didn't; Sage did. Which means Jill has no leg to stand on in this fight.

She having a flu, All she need is a handkerchief and coldrex , and she is in a place with full of friends around her.
The only thing that is annoying about this, is that MC automatically tell her, he gonna visit her.
I don't know why folks make it this to be bigger than what it is. Girl you like show, up, ask you out on a date, you reject her, and she took it as you are not interested in her, simple.

Actually, the MC will only automatically accept if he's on Sage's path. If she's just a friend, the MC can beg out of helping her:

If the MC declines, he'll claim he doesn't want to catch her cold. Which is reasonable enough, though it would still be very disappointing from Sage's point of view. Yet somehow she not only takes that disappointment in stride, she'll even accept it if the MC weasels out of the agreement later without the excuse of germs. If only Jill could be so understanding.

If it was Mc's father who is sick, and Jill not understanding, I total get you point, but Sage is just a random girl , MC dating with multiple girls, Jill know this. She might simply not belive this and see it as an exuse.

And I know, it's not only unheard but it never even ever happened, that someone cancels a previous plan, over a better opportunity.

First of all, I'm not sure that's true. Jill's belief in 'destiny' is so poorly explained and nonsensical I can't tell if she would see ANY excuse as a sign the MC wasn't her One True Love (tm).

But even if what you say is true, doesn't that boil down to blood being thicker than water... and Jill expects to be treated like family? That's a lot to ask from a casual dating partner. Worse, she isn't willing to grant him the same consideration because when the MC later asks keep seeing her (in the school hallway, in her room, and ultimately at the restaurant), she refuses. Actually, she takes umbrage at how she isn't consistently the most important thing to him. If he's really that important to her... how can she be so quick to write him off permanently?!?

I'm sorry, but I just can't ignore that. It speaks to a profound lack of emotional maturity in Jill. We can chalk it up to bad writing (as I do), but if we accept it as written it's a much bigger red flag than some of us seem willing to admit.

 

[gamer8000]

like to see the mc with Ashley, Sally and Elena. Arieth maybe

 

[Bendover885]

View attachment 1913473

Why can't we have a repeatable loop animation of this scene, like the punching Tybalt scene? Missed opportunity here.

 

[ChipLecsap]

If he's really that important to her... how can she be so quick to write him off permanently?!?

as we discussed this like a million times. The picnic date itself is the turning point, the things that happens there what makes MC important to Jill. - If we of course forget the Stupid affinity thing - .
It is really not that hard, to see this. All the little things you do, is simply the build up, for her to invite MC to the picnic, and then what happens there is the deciding factor, But if that not happens, then Jill does not get a confirmation from her heart, so to speak.
Jill is conflicted with her feeling toward MC, and Tybalt's shenanigans not helping to dismiss the insecurity. You are assuming that MC is already someone special for Jill, when he actually became someone special to her after the picnick and not before.

 

[BigBlueDude]

Ah yes, argue the merits of Jills crazy more. I love to read it I really do. Crazy is the correct moniker because she believes in dEsTiNy, that shes in the play "I AM special and everything that happen, happens for ME because I AM special.". Shes been self centered since day 1 and fully acts in accordance to what she believes (ie herself), even her sisters death is about herself ffs.

My argument is based on a rare kind of selfishness I think she is displaying. This is not the usual egotistical selfishness of the nasty kind thats common in media but its the reverse one. The goodhearted one thats rare... whats the word... childlike? guileless? whatever. A selfishness that doesnt consider consequences, unknown circumstances or hidden feelings of others but acts for something greater in life. To Jill life is straightforward "Act for the greater good, I bring forth the greater good, and all will be good." She just doesnt think the middle part of that sentence, shes not even aware of it. Shes compelled to act and follow dEsTiNy over reality imo.

Shes well written in that regard. What shes actually is playing in is "White priviliged Basic Bitch on Earth, one among many" and I dont think anything will make that reality check happen to her. I wish the soulcrusher moment would but i hold no hope for it.

I dont think the picnic choice is wrong per se, then again I didnt care about Jill to begin with so that makes me biased. I sympathize with people getting tricked by game logic with it though, its really open ended and can easily and convincingly be argued either way (as Shazba and Kellerman et al respectively have done) which means its good writing i think but bad/mediocre game design depending on what you think about hidden traps with choices.

Shes an awful human (but a good character) and deserve awful things happening to her. I personally fucking hate her due to the tropes shes made from. A perfectly written character that acts logically, internally consistent with what we have seen of her I think.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Ah yes, argue the merits of Jills crazy more. I love to read it I really do. Crazy is the correct moniker because she believes in dEsTiNy, that shes in the play "I AM special and everything that happen, happens for ME because I AM special.". Shes been self centered since day 1 and fully acts in accordance to what she believes (ie herself), even her sisters death is about herself ffs.

My argument is based on a rare kind of selfishness I think she is displaying. This is not the usual egotistical selfishness of the nasty kind thats common in media but its the reverse one. The goodhearted one thats rare... whats the word... childlike? guileless? whatever. A selfishness that doesnt consider consequences, unknown circumstances or hidden feelings of others but acts for something greater in life. To Jill life is straightforward "Act for the greater good, I bring forth the greater good, and all will be good." She just doesnt think the middle part of that sentence, shes not even aware of it. Shes compelled to act and follow dEsTiNy over reality imo.

Shes well written in that regard. What shes actually is playing in is "White priviliged Basic Bitch on Earth, one among many" and I dont think anything will make that reality check happen to her. I wish the soulcrusher moment would but i hold no hope for it.

I dont think the picnic choice is wrong per se, then again I didnt care about Jill to begin with so that makes me biased. I sympathize with people getting tricked by game logic with it though, its really open ended and can easily and convincingly be argued either way (as Shazba and Kellerman et al respectively have done) which means its good writing i think but bad/mediocre game design depending on what you think about hidden traps with choices.

Shes an awful human (but a good character) and deserve awful things happening to her. I personally fucking hate her due to the tropes shes made from. A perfectly written character that acts logically, internally consistent with what we have seen of her I think.

You certainly care about her enough to write a long rant about how much you just don't care about her .
There are so many Repressed Tsunderes here

 

[Crusader of Romance]

But the thing is, there was a promise made. You say you'll look after her, a girl comes up unannounced and you cancel? That shouldn't be big issue.

Then you miss whatever scene you would have gotten with your LI and you might miss her completely. That's how dating sims usually work. It used to be that missing a date was enough to lose your chance with a girl in early dating sims.
If you prioritise someone else in the game over your LI, you miss out.
I do, however, think we should have been able to cancel with Sage and I dislike that we are sometimes forced to agree to help her without a choice to say no.

 

[ename144]

as we discussed this like a million times. The picnic date itself is the turning point, the things that happens there what makes MC important to Jill. - If we of course forget the Stupid affinity thing - .
It is really not that hard, to see this. All the little things you do, is simply the build up, for her to invite MC to the picnic, and then what happens there is the deciding factor, But if that not happens, then Jill does not get a confirmation from her heart, so to speak.
Jill is conflicted with her feeling toward MC, and Tybalt's shenanigans not helping to dismiss the insecurity. You are assuming that MC is already someone special for Jill, when he actually became someone special to her after the picnick and not before.

Okay, this is getting circular. One last time.

If the MC isn't someone special to Jill, she she wouldn't have asked him for help before the recital - as indeed she doesn't if you aren't on her path. She wouldn't have planned the picnic in the first place, and she wouldn't think bitterly to herself that the MC hasn't shown how much much he wants to see her after he turned it down.

The MC (on her path) is important to Jill right up until he has a schedule conflict. The instant that happens she loses all interest and stonewalls any attempt by him to reignite it. That is my fundamental objection to the way the picnic was handled. DPC treats it as the genesis of the romance, but it's not. It's an important step on the way, but there's no reason it couldn't be replaced by an equivalent step... if Jill didn't lose her mind.

 

[shazba]

I just dont get it how you dont get it??? And you are smart dude! And gosh darnit, I agree with the gist of what you are saying. I truly do. I actually love the way you break the game's characters, their motivations and shit in your long worded posts. But ... the simple truth is this: DPC designed the game in a way where you can actually play like a DIK and still get Jill. Without mods or cheating you can balance the game to have a solid amount of sex with other girls, you can beat the shit out of other people, humiliate them even, hell you can even choose to NOT help Jill during one the most important moments in her life (Concert). And Jill ignores all that and accepts you as a boyfriend, has sex with you. All you had to do was be a major DIK to a sick friend and little Jillybean is happy. It feels out of character.

That picnic variable has to much power. On the other hand you can devote your entire playthrough to her, max the chick stats, be her knight in shining armor during the concert, but god forbid you choose to take care of your sick friend, then Jillybean moans that you were not there for her more often. It just bad game design for that particular choice. Period.

I mean you can stan some more for DPC instead admitting that he is just a human being like the rest of us capable of making mistakes. Burning mistakes actually.

Unless... you are DPC!
View attachment 1913142

Or Jill AI herself that somehow became conscious and is now spending her time on porn forum where it all began.
View attachment 1913150

Anyway, hope you see what Kellerman and I tried to communicate. Peace.

Thing is, I do get it.

In this post from a while ago, I explained the perfect Jill run minus the picnic, detailed Jill's reactions and the fallout, and in my second last paragraph, I too questioned whether DPC had intended that to be the catalyst for the end.

But at the same time, when I was first ever confronted by the choice, I knew this was a serious decision. The most serious decision in the game so far at that point. If I got that vibe, it means DPC was conveying it. If people missed it, like they miss a lot of the details in the game, that's on them.

In retrospect since my hateful Jill post, it's clear DPC meant for it to pan out that way:

• When the mc lets her down, Jill immediately thinks maybe she shouldn't worry him about the blackmail. If the mc isn't gonna make time for her, that makes it even easier to comply with her agreement with Tybalt.
• When they next meet, it's still on her mind that he blew her off with her, "(Then why haven't you shown that more?)" thoughts.
• When he climbs her balcony, although she felt butterflies (because she was nervous at the thought of sex), his presence didn't get her all worked up, hence no jilling the bean at his departure. And she articulates that something feels off.
• When Derek refers to Jill and the mc having dated (in the past tense) she doesn't correct him.
• When she's crying on Josy's shoulder, she refers to the mc as someone she "thought" (past tense) she liked.
• And so on.

And the fallout from these feelings is she doesn't invite him on the run, and then subsequently doesn't invite him to dinner with her friends, and finally she doesn't come over to fuck.

Other games out there keep a running tally of RPs to enable or disable relationships, and they often accumulate from the most inane things, and if you don't have the perfect score, sorry, it's over. Those games need a walkthrough since it's almost a lottery for you to guess all the right choices.

BaDIK, while it keeps a tally, only uses RPs occasionally, they may just be tipping point between Josy giving you an ass job or not, or Jill healing you in a game of DnG. But the important stuff is based on key decisions, as well as the DIK/Chick mechanic.

You wanna get a blowjob from a woman in another woman's car? Definitely dicing with death.

You wanna turn a girl on your doorstep down for another girl? What the fuck do you expect will happen?

There is one definite design flaw, or "bug" in the game regarding the Sage/Jill choice. If you choose Jill, the mc actually texts Sage to say he'd drop around a bit later, and Sage says not to bother, she does so in differing ways depending on whether you're on her path or just friends, but it's the same outcome. The bug is, you never see that exchange, you don't get access to your messages again for the rest of the episode, and in episode 7 you get a new phone (I think that bug still stands today).

Here's the full breakdown.

Sage isn't dying, seeing her later in the day would be a totally acceptable option, best of both worlds and all that, but if you follow that exchange, it's Sage who pulls the plug.

I have to laugh at the number of people who are like, "He promised Sage...!" He "promised" her? "Promised"? What are we, fucking primary school children? His exact words, "Of course. I'll be over in a bit."

But going back to the heart of the matter, it's not bad design for DPC to do this. People are 100% hung up on believing it's a Chick thing to tell Jill to fuck off and go hang with a sick (girl)friend, and therefore chick-loving Jill should accept it and there shouldn't be a bump in their relationship.

The mc's exact response when hit with the dilemma:

mc: "(I told Sage I'd come take care of her... Fuck.)"​

mc: "(Now I feel bad... Who am I gonna let down?)"​

On the one hand, he'd made plans with Sage first, so, first in best dressed.

On the other hand, Jill was all excited and had gone to some effort to do something nice for him, so she would likely be hurt more if he let her down.

If you're on Jill's path, the obvious thing to do is choose her and let Sage know you'll be over a bit later, if Sage wants to call it off, that's her choice.

If you wanna fuck Nicole and Sandy, tell Jill to go fuck herself!

Bottom line, if you wanted Jill but chose Sage because you thought choosing Sage would lead you to Jill, and you're blaming DPC for that not working out for you, just because you decided (there are no Chick/DIK points awarded for this decision) choosing Sage was a Chick thing to do (without considering that turning down an excited girl who had already organised a picnic might be a DIK thing to do), then you've only got yourself to blame.

It's not bad design, it was a tough decision. Even tougher if you wanted both girls. Of course we know that's a pipe dream now.

Regarding the mc saving Jill's bacon at the concert, while that was a fucking awesome thing for him to do for her, it was 100% not expected of him (of course we expected it, but none of the characters would have dreamed of him doing such a thing). If Jill fails spectacularly, it's not the mc's fault and no one in the game would even consider to hold him accountable.

So just because he does save her ass, should it change all her previous feelings for him? At that point he'd missed the picnic, the run, the dinner date, their relationship had only gone down by that point. At the back of her mind are red flags that she'd already accumulated - his getting into fights, breaking into the mansion, setting off the sprinklers (imagine if he'd fucked up her piano), egging the preps...

She took his gesture as that of a great friend, but it didn't sweep her back off her feet.

So of course DPC is human, and he has made mistakes in the game, but I don't accept this is one of them. And I definitely refute that he is "like the rest of us". If that were the case, this game would be the norm, not the exception.

I do, however, think we should have been able to cancel with Sage and I dislike that we are sometimes forced to agree to help her without a choice to say no.

Read further up in this post, you'll see you do cancel with Sage but it's a bug in the game so you never see that message exchange.

Also if you're on Sage's path you agree immediately, like why wouldn't you, but if you're just friends with her you can actually say no, he literally says, " Sorry, but I don't wanna catch a cold."

The MC (on her path) is important to Jill right up until he has a schedule conflict. The instant that happens she loses all interest and stonewalls any attempt by him to reignite it. That is my fundamental objection to the way the picnic was handled. DPC treats it as the genesis of the romance, but it's not. It's an important step on the way, but there's no reason it couldn't be replaced by an equivalent step... if Jill didn't lose her mind.

It's more complicated than that. Jill is in the situation where she's going to comply with Tybalt's demands. She wanted to see the mc to tell him, but he had other plans. Her thoughts are that perhaps that's easier anyway, if he's not making an effort for her right now, maybe she can just distance herself, as required, and leave it at that.

Unfortunately that distancing takes the mc's pressure off Jill, he doesn't get a chance to further consolidate the relationship, tell her he's falling for her, and do the other things that follow on (the run, the date). This gives Jill more time to think about it and she weighs things up. The mc is trouble. It's not all just Tybalt BS. She says it all in her dumping speech, and even though she's wrong (the mc never asked her to bail him out of anything - and he says this), she feels it's too much and decides to end their "romance" and just go back to being friends.

Is Jill wrong? Maybe. Does that make the game wrong? No. These are all imperfect characters, making mistakes and fucking shit up.

The fact that DPC has the mc protesting Jill's misunderstandings proves DPC is aware of it, meaning he's deliberately creating flawed characters (works well for drama of course).

Flawed characters are the best kind of characters.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Okay, this is getting circular. One last time.

If the MC isn't someone special to Jill, she she wouldn't have asked him for help before the recital - as indeed she doesn't if you aren't on her path. She wouldn't have planned the picnic in the first place, and she wouldn't think bitterly to herself that the MC hasn't shown how much much he wants to see her after he turned it down.

The MC (on her path) is important to Jill right up until he has a schedule conflict. The instant that happens she loses all interest and stonewalls any attempt by him to reignite it. That is my fundamental objection to the way the picnic was handled. DPC treats it as the genesis of the romance, but it's not. It's an important step on the way, but there's no reason it couldn't be replaced by an equivalent step... if Jill didn't lose her mind.

Liking the MC is not the same as him being Special to her. If Jill like the MC, She ask him out for the picnic date. During that Date, is when MC end up being special to her, it's even in the game, but may be this will help refress your memory

If you mis out, the picnic, MC won't be part of Jill's Polaroid collection of special persons to her



If your complain would, be that Even after this, She reject MC if he does not have the right Affinity, then, in that I fully agree that it is a stupid game system what is not in line with the actual story. and doesn't make a single fucking sense

 

[cutefeetcunnysseur]

i love the fucking models in this game but damn some of those faces bella makes i wouldnt find it strange if the model was holding a knife
she gives me yandere vibes