VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

It's unwise to cover a lie with another lie. Trust is a fragile thing, once crumbled, it's very hard to rebuild it. I did mentioned before though that omission and lie are two different things. Maya didn't really lie, she just haven't told MC about being a lesbian and she didn't know that MC's crush is her girlfriend. Most likely she's slowly opening up to MC but Lady luck, time and fate is not on her side. Maya's bet backfired on her in a very very bad way.

Also regarding Josy, we must not forget that Josy is MC's crush for the entire summer, while you the players only get to know Josy at the end of his summer job. Whether you like it or not, he will think about her, lust for her, and go to her when she beckons, especially when his time with her ended abruptly just when it's starting to flourish.

Maya did lie when she said she had a boyfriend, then she covered it with a half truth. Half truth that was way more damaging than the lie itself. I get that she wanted to be honest (but not completely honest), but only managed to screw it up even more. She had good intentions but managed to get everything worse, that's why I said she's unintentionally toxic.

I get Josy, I think I understand her. I've made some lengthy posts in the past about her. She is part of the story (well, both of them) and I don't want either of them gone. It's complicated. One thing I don't like about other games is that when you reject a girl they disappear from the game completely. I prefer some middle ground. It feels odd that if M&J are that central to the story to have other LIs. It's like AL, it doesn't make much sense to have more LI if you are forced into dating Megan anyway.

 

[Jenson143]

What about the patch from initial to v.0.5.0

 

[Phynix]

The problem I find is that most people seem to dislike certain characters for such small, petty reasons that they then blow out of all proportions.

Did Maya withhold the truth about herself? Yes, but she wasn't unjustified in doing so and her reasoning is perfectly understandable and even forgivable. People might be hesitant to trust her again which is fair, but she certainly doesn't deserve the level of animosity and disgust that I've seen from some people because it didn't come from a place of deliberate malicious deceitfulness and does not represent her whole character.

I think it also speaks rather poorly of where we are as a society that some people just don't seem to have much compassion in their hearts and are willing to dismiss anyone on the basis of such minor slights that can be easily resolved and you can move past if you just take the time to be understanding rather than shut them out completely.

Perhaps i haven't been here long enough to know about this animosity you are talking about. What i've mostly seen is the "dishonest while expecting honesty" part. Having dealt with such people myself, i have to admit that this is what made me dislike her the most.

That being said, it's still their opinion of a character and i doubt that finding reasons or excuses will change their minds, if anything will, it's probably changes to that character. Whether DPC makes any changes to her remains to be seen but personally i don't expect much.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Maya did lie when she said she had a boyfriend, then she covered it with a half truth. Half truth that was way more damaging than the lie itself. I get that she wanted to be honest (but not completely honest), but only managed to screw it up even more. She had good intentions but managed to get everything worse, that's why I said she's unintentionally toxic.

I get Josy, I think I understand her. I've made some lengthy posts in the past about her. She is part of the story (well, both of them) and I don't want either of them gone. It's complicated. One thing I don't like about other games is that when you reject a girl they disappear from the game completely. I prefer some middle ground. It feels odd that if M&J are that central to the story to have other LIs. It's like AL, it doesn't make much sense to have more LI if you are forced into dating Megan anyway.

I agree with this. I don't want the LI's to go poof either. Especially on a small campus where you're bound to run in to people. However if I kill the romance part of it then I want that part to go poof. Kind of hard to be just friends if I keep having to read the MC's internal monologue about how much he still cares. SIGH

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Maya did lie when she said she had a boyfriend, then she covered it with a half truth. Half truth that was way more damaging than the lie itself. I get that she wanted to be honest (but not completely honest), but only managed to screw it up even more. She had good intentions but managed to get everything worse, that's why I said she's unintentionally toxic.

I get Josy, I think I understand her. I've made some lengthy posts in the past about her. She is part of the story (well, both of them) and I don't want either of them gone. It's complicated. One thing I don't like about other games is that when you reject a girl they disappear from the game completely. I prefer some middle ground. It feels odd that if M&J are that central to the story to have other LIs. It's like AL, it doesn't make much sense to have more LI if you are forced into dating Megan anyway.

Maya may have made a mistake, yes, but I think describing her as "toxic" is a bit much especially when, again, you consider the MC's part in all of this.

Much like with Josy, Maya tells him she has a boyfriend and yet he still wants to get closer to her rather than backing off. Then when Maya tells him she made up the boyfriend as a way to try and keep guys away from her, he doesn't have the wherewithal to wonder or even ask "why?" but simply comes out and tells her he's attracted to her, which was very much him reading the room wrongly.

There was a reason she tried to do something that she thought would get him to not see her as a romantic or even sexual option, and even the half-truth should have been something that made him see there was something she was struggling with and that he shouldn't push her. But, on the M&J path, he continues to pursue her and in so doing is the cause of her feelings for him by getting so close to her. Had he backed off because of the issues she expressed, then perhaps there would be no feelings of "being lied to" by Maya because the MC did the right thing in her giving her space and not pursuing her. Of course, there would still be the Josy issue to contend with, but I feel like the MC somewhat did this to himself because there were warning signs with Maya and yet he barreled right through them.

 

[xsssssssss]

I’d be happy with far less inner monologues from the MC.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Maya may have made a mistake, yes, but I think describing her as "toxic" is a bit much especially when, again, you consider the MC's part in all of this.

Much like with Josy, Maya tells him she has a boyfriend and yet he still wants to get closer to her rather than backing off. Then when Maya tells him she made up the boyfriend as a way to try and keep guys away from her, he doesn't have the wherewithal to wonder or even ask "why?" but simply comes out and tells her he's attracted to her, which was very much him reading the room wrongly.

There was a reason she tried to do something that she thought would get him to not see her as a romantic or even sexual option, and even the half-truth should have been something that made him see there was something she was struggling with and that he shouldn't push her. But, on the M&J path, he continues to pursue her and in so doing is the cause of her feelings for him by getting so close to her. Had he backed off because of the issues she expressed, then perhaps there would be no feelings of "being lied to" by Maya because the MC did the right thing in her giving her space and not pursuing her. Of course, there would still be the Josy issue to contend with, but I feel like the MC somewhat did this to himself because there were warning signs with Maya and yet he barreled right through them.

The player did this to himself not the MC (with DPC's help). Your above situation only works on the M&J path. On the DIK route the above story never happens. I never tell Maya I like her, I don't agree to help her, etc. etc. However the underlying story still happens because DPC failed to take into account that we may make different choices than the ones he needs to happen.

Edit - Just frustrating that the MC ends up romantically attached to a LI that I have literally been trying to push away for 5 episodes now and she still won't leave

 

[felicemastronzo]

Maya may have made a mistake, yes, but I think describing her as "toxic" is a bit much especially when, again, you consider the MC's part in all of this.

Much like with Josy, Maya tells him she has a boyfriend and yet he still wants to get closer to her rather than backing off. Then when Maya tells him she made up the boyfriend as a way to try and keep guys away from her, he doesn't have the wherewithal to wonder or even ask "why?" but simply comes out and tells her he's attracted to her, which was very much him reading the room wrongly.

There was a reason she tried to do something that she thought would get him to not see her as a romantic or even sexual option, and even the half-truth should have been something that made him see there was something she was struggling with and that he shouldn't push her. But, on the M&J path, he continues to pursue her and in so doing is the cause of her feelings for him by getting so close to her. Had he backed off because of the issues she expressed, then perhaps there would be no feelings of "being lied to" by Maya because the MC did the right thing in her giving her space and not pursuing her. Of course, there would still be the Josy issue to contend with, but I feel like the MC somewhat did this to himself because there were warning signs with Maya and yet he barreled right through them.

in this way, however, we give Maya all the mitigating factors and the MC all the aggravating ones

MC is attracted to Maya and tells her when he knows she doesn't have a boyfriend thinking she is free.

in reality it is not so, but MC does not know and Maya does not tell him
and when this happens, we players don't know too

Is MC guilty of putting pressure on Maya? of course, but what should he do?

Maya has every right not to tell him what she doesn't feel like sharing, but MC can't be guilty of not taking into account facts he doesn't know.

 

[N7]

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Dr PinkCake

 

[Holy Bacchus]

The player did this to himself not the MC (with DPC's help). Your above situation only works on the M&J path. On the DIK route the above story never happens. I never tell Maya I like her, I don't agree to help her, etc. etc. However the underlying story still happens because DPC failed to take into account that we may make different choices than the ones he needs to happen.

This can also happen on a DIK route because, as we know, players can still take the M&J path through the first 3 chapters whilst also making DIK choices but they ultimately get rejected because of their DIK status. This is certainly the player's choice, but if we look at these events as though they are a fixed, canon story, then it can be viewed as the protag's fault for not recognising the red flag of Maya not wanting guys to be interested in her and pursuing her anyway.

Is MC guilty of putting pressure on Maya? of course, but what should he do?

Maya has every right not to tell him what she doesn't feel like sharing, but MC can't be guilty of not taking into account facts he doesn't know.

She tells him she doesn't want guys to be attracted to her. That should have given him pause to wonder why and maybe back off a little and instead just try to be her friend not pursure her romantically.

 

[moskyx]

If you paid attention on all your previous interactions with Josy you might of got the sense that her family affairs are messed in general and you form a very, very minor part in them.

Regardless of that you had 2 (forced) dates with her, you kissed her on the first, you are texting each other and she offers you the chance to spend the night with her.

You might think at this stage that if you are uninterested in her then it's probably not wise to encourage her in any way shape or form. Instead you ditch a party/mission to offer her support and when given the choice to go back to the party/mission you instead decide to go back to her dorm, alone.

That you're making your choices because you have nothing but friendly intentions towards her is all fine and good BUT you aren't considering the impact it's having on her feelings or point of view especially as you are trying to descalate from 'more then friends' to 'buddies'.

I know her family issues are deeper than having a date with me when she was alone at home, but that was the reason why his dad grounded her. I am her friend and I want to act like a good friend so I went there hoping to be able to explain him that situation. Then it happens that my presence results completely unnecesary, well I'm glad but also feel mislead by the way that choice was presented. OK, no hard feelings. And I admit escorting her to the dorm might have been a mistake on my part. But again, I just felt it was the friendly thing to do. But DPC doesn't allow me to behave as a friend even after making a choice that implies I just want to be friends, he wants me to absolutely ignore them to make clear I'm just a friend. Well, that's not what being a friend means, at all. Only now I know she still feels something for me... and my only option to keep things in the friendzone is telling Derek I'm not interested? Really? That's why I feel the intermediate, probably wrong played paths are not that well fleshed out.

 

[felicemastronzo]

She tells him she doesn't want guys to be attracted to her. That should have given him pause to wonder why and maybe back off a little and instead just try to be her friend not pursure her romantically.

but at the same time she never drives MC away with her actions

she undresses in front of him, invites him in the bed to watch a movie

she goes to him to make out when Quinn asks her

now if MC thinks he has possibilities, would you blame him?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

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Dr PinkCake

And here I thought he was just going to do the main LIs.

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one. (Although it's quite the contrast with Josy who pretty much bared it all and Riona being a teasing little minx. )

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

This can also happen on a DIK route because, as we know, players can still take the M&J path through the first 3 chapters whilst also making DIK choices but they ultimately get rejected because of their DIK status. This is certainly the player's choice, but if we look at these events as though they are a fixed, canon story, then it can be viewed as the protag's fault for not recognising the red flag of Maya not wanting guys to be interested in her and pursuing her anyway.

The problem with this is that its fixed. Even if you tell Maya that you aren't interested, even if you refuse to help her, even if you actively try to push her away the whole emotional attachment still happens. There is not a way to just "be friends". I understand what you are referring to however you refuse to understand mine. This is a plot hole that refuses to acknowledge the players choices and just runs off as if we never made a choice in the first place. Not everyone pursues her, I realize you like her but not everyone else shares your attraction. The game refuses to acknowledge that some people want absolutely nothing to do with her.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Maya may have made a mistake, yes, but I think describing her as "toxic" is a bit much especially when, again, you consider the MC's part in all of this.

Much like with Josy, Maya tells him she has a boyfriend and yet he still wants to get closer to her rather than backing off. Then when Maya tells him she made up the boyfriend as a way to try and keep guys away from her, he doesn't have the wherewithal to wonder or even ask "why?" but simply comes out and tells her he's attracted to her, which was very much him reading the room wrongly.

Was he? I don't think so. She admits she says that to prevent guys from hitting on her, then she tells us that. The sensible thing to think is that she's available. It's not the MC's fault not to understand what she's not saying. That's why I said she made it worse by saying she lied. And after that she had lots of opportunities to tell us not to go any further and she didn't until it blew in her face. That's her fault and her fault only. Not doing anything and hoping everything ends up fine by itself without her doing anything. That's Maya.

And by the way Josy was honest with us the whole time. She didn't say she had anyone because she though we only wanted a one night stand. When she realized we wanted more (and she also wanted more, but she thought the MC didn't) then she stopped it right away. It's not the same.

There was a reason she tried to do something that she thought would get him to not see her as a romantic or even sexual option, and even the half-truth should have been something that made him see there was something she was struggling with and that he shouldn't push her. But, on the M&J path, he continues to pursue her and in so doing is the cause of her feelings for him by getting so close to her. Had he backed off because of the issues she expressed, then perhaps there would be no feelings of "being lied to" by Maya because the MC did the right thing in her giving her space and not pursuing her. Of course, there would still be the Josy issue to contend with, but I feel like the MC somewhat did this to himself because there were warning signs with Maya and yet he barreled right through them.

The lie was better than the half truth at preventing the MC not to hit on her. The MC can't read minds. I still can't believe you pin the blame of the half truth on the MC...

 

[Conklingc]

Right now Josey and Maya are getting a lot of hate but i believe that's just because those are the only 2 main girls that have had their "drama" arcs and once we get to the Bella/Sage/Jill drama your going to see people change their opinions. You're going to see pages upon pages of hate messages on these forums once the Bella drama starts.

I think most of it is just people filling time while waiting for the next episode. I was much more disappointed with the MC in my main play through (episode 4 he was pretty whiny - although someone pointed out he's an 18 year old with limited social experience which makes that much easier to accept). I went back later and did another play through to get the rejection from Maya/Josy and that one felt like they were wrong to me since all through episode 4 they want to talk to the MC and when they have the talk and reject him it makes it seem to me like they set him up (to the MC it isn't like that at all since he falls right into friend mode). If the game was further along I think most people would play past those scenes and be focused on the rest of the story, most of the character bashing comes from needing to occupy their time.

So far I like all the main Love Interests and most of the secondary girls. The game is one of the best around, but that means fans spend lots of time nit-picking little details while waiting for their next fix.

 

[flippityflop]

quite the contrast with Josy who pretty much bared it all and Riona being a teasing little minx.

I think I know why... Because it would be insensitive towards her character considering the events that might transpire in the upcoming episode.
I've had a bad feeling about her ever since talking to her in HOT's backyard.
I don't wanna jinx it, so I'll just shut up now.

 

[Malicre]

But she won't keep her job and her reputation if she's in relationship with a student and neither Burke and Tybalt will accept this. That's why they kept their relationship a secret. That's the whole point.

You do realize that all of this is the same for bella right? and its actually worse when you consider we dont know what the situation is with her husband or the secret room but her relationship with the mc will be the same as jades would be. At least with Jade we know why she's cheating on her husband and i don't really see tybalt or burke being an issue when it comes to jade's relationships. Now obviously at the moment theres not even an inkling that the mc or jade are wanting to be more then fuck buddies but i'm just saying that im open to the idea of jade getting a proper route as shes currently one of my favorite characters.

 

[always86]

It would be great if the teachers get their own ending. Jade has more character development than Jill so far in my opinion. Same for Quinn.
It would be a shame if not possible. Maybe since drpinkcake intends to do a lot of episodes they can be turned into possible romance options.

I think Quinn is the 6th LI but also the antagonist for the story. As I said before she is Vader to someone else’s (probably Vinny’s) Emperor. She will have a proper ending, but it might happen before the final episode or even season.

Jade is well developed, part of the frustration of my Neutral and CHICK play throughs is you have to choose between her and Maya x Josy. On CHICK I followed her path right up to making a move when she comforts you, but didn’t go through with it, so I didn’t piss her off pre date.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I think most of it is just people filling time while waiting for the next episode. I was much more disappointed with the MC in my main play through (episode 4 he was pretty whiny - although someone pointed out he's an 18 year old with limited social experience which makes that much easier to accept). I went back later and did another play through to get the rejection from Maya/Josy and that one felt like they were wrong to me since all through episode 4 they want to talk to the MC and when they have the talk and reject him it makes it seem to me like they set him up (to the MC it isn't like that at all since he falls right into friend mode). If the game was further along I think most people would play past those scenes and be focused on the rest of the story, most of the character bashing comes from needing to occupy their time.

So far I like all the main Love Interests and most of the secondary girls. The game is one of the best around, but that means fans spend lots of time nit-picking little details while waiting for their next fix.

It's just boredom and waiting for the next episode. We have done the same thing after every release. Just killing time. Right now its easy to pick on Maya/Josy because its the most recent big screwup in the game. Its also the one that most of us agree was very badly written. DPC needed the result but a lot of us weren't on that route so it makes no sense for it to have happened in the first place.