RPGM Below the Fold [Ep.5 R2] [iLTinoBambino]

2.80 star(s) 5 Votes

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Joe Steel

Engaged Member
Jan 10, 2018
2,290
3,033
I finally finished 1-02 and wanted to share some thoughts with the dev and fans. I won't do a review because I don't think reviews of games this early in development are appropriate, but this will be "reviewish."

I like what the reviewer has shared with us regarding his vision, and what he wants to do. I don't necessarily agree with his choice of RPGM as the engine, at least yet, but can accept that he thinks that he has made the right choice for the right reasons. Given that his art so far is just pixel art sometimes modified from stock RPGM, I find it difficult to see what a Ren'py version would even have, so the engine shortcomings seem necessary.

Play is very awkward, with dialogue in particular taking far too long. The latter problem has been discussed ad infinitum here, so I will focus on other issues. The biggest issue I had was that time in the game seems far too indefinite. Except in the scripted portion, there are no "days," even when the dialogue and such imply waiting days. In the free-roaming part, when do days end? The dev should add a sleep mechanic to address that. There are quests with objectives that are unclear, such as when the MC needs to go to the "news room" and the player has no idea where that is. It turns out to be on the second floor at the back of the school, but is never identified as such and even if the player has, for some reason, explored the whole school they won't know to go to that room, and will have to do a lot of wandering to see the flashing yellow star that indicates the objective. It appears that the "Golden Gate" quest can't be finished, but there's no indication of that anywhere. The quest log should be more detailed and incomplete quests should be so marked.

There is a very good story here, with interesting characters. None of them, except possibly the father, are really all that admirable. I enjoy the fact that the MC is acting, at the start, out of the selfish desire to be the senior editor and out of pique at the new superintendant. That's a very realistic attitude for a teenager to have. I hope the dev further explores the conflict between her academic goals and her growing realization that the story she is investigating is far more serious than she ever knew. I am hoping the MC reaches a point where she has to choose between finishing high school and finishing her investigation, but can't imagine how the dev could do anything but have one of those choices be a game-over. Having an actual choice there would create two completely different games.

Side characters are pretty good. The possessive boyfriend, the nerd lab partner (I love the touch where he doesn't get a name but stays the generic "LAB_PARTNER"), the girlfriend who cheats with the boyfriend, the principal, etc all add to the story in meaningful ways, and the MC's gradual isolation from all of her friends and increasing identification with the shady characters she is now working with represent genuine character development. That's vanishingly rare in games like this.

There were scenes that clanked with me, such as the shower scene. It is impossible for me to imagine a teenage girl so body-unaware that she'd show herself naked to a bunch of male school-mates to make an intellectual argument. The reason presented for all the characters to be 18 yers old as rising seniors was kind of amusing, but, upon reflection, made no sense at all. There's no possibility that a school district would have all of its students repeat a grade to avoid spending some money, as the cost to give thousands of student an extra years of school would be in the tens of millions of dollars.

The best part of the design is the deliberate eschewing of grinding as a substitute for character development. I was delighted when I saw the dev simply have the MC do three days of dance training rather than make the player take her home, back to the studio, home, back to the studio, etc. There are many unnecessary clicks in the game, I think, but none of them seemed designed to just extend game play artificially. That's also rare and insufficiently appreciated, I think.

The "mom and dad" side of the story was less interesting and coherent, I thought. In fact, I would encourage the dev to consider skipping it entirely, unless it is absolutely necessary to his vision. It jolts us out of the main story and doesn't advance the plot at all. It seems to me that most of what we have seen could be told in flashbacks or journals the MC finds, without interrupting the main game flow. Multiple-POV books tend to be less enjoyable than single-POV books (unless built specifically that way, as in GoT), and I think that that applies to games as well. If at all possible, I'd like this game to focus just on the MC and what she knows and discovers as we play.

In sum, I think that this is a somewhat-flawed execution of a very well-designed game that shows an author who really knows how to tell a story and develop a character. It is sometime frustrating in regards to quests and it was especially irritating to me to find the save feature so late in the game (it's pretty well-hidden and I only stumbled on it by accident), but the basic story, and especially the growing isolation of the MC from all who wish her well, and identification with those who wish her ill, is outstanding. All of the flaws can be easily fixed, and this could well end as a classic of the genre. Well-done, Tino Bambino.
 
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TinoBambino

Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
127
227
I finally finished 1-02 and wanted to share some thoughts with the dev and fans. I won't do a review because I don't think reviews of games this early in development are appropriate, but this will be "reviewish."

I like what the reviewer has shared with us regarding his vision, and what he wants to do. I don't necessarily agree with his choice of RPGM as the engine, at least yet, but can accept that he thinks that he has made the right choice for the right reasons. Given that his art so far is just pixel art sometimes modified from stock RPGM, I find it difficult to see what a Ren'py version would even have, so the engine shortcomings seem necessary.

Play is very awkward, with dialogue in particular taking far too long. The latter problem has been discussed ad infinitum here, so I will focus on other issues. The biggest issue I had was that time in the game seems far too indefinite. Except in the scripted portion, there are no "days," even when the dialogue and such imply waiting days. In the free-roaming part, when do days end? The dev should add a sleep mechanic to address that. There are quests with objectives that are unclear, such as when the MC needs to go to the "news room" and the player has no idea where that is. It turns out to be on the second floor at the back of the school, but is never identified as such and even if the player has, for some reason, explored the whole school they won't know to go to that room, and will have to do a lot of wandering to see the flashing yellow star that indicates the objective. It appears that the "Golden Gate" quest can't be finished, but there's no indication of that anywhere. The quest log should be more detailed and incomplete quests should be so marked.

There is a very good story here, with interesting characters. None of them, except possibly the father, are really all that admirable. I enjoy the fact that the MC is acting, at the start, out of the selfish desire to be the senior editor and out of pique at the new superintendant. That's a very realistic attitude for a teenager to have. I hope the dev further explores the conflict between her academic goals and her growing realization that the story she is investigating is far more serious than she ever knew. I am hoping the MC reaches a point where she has to choose between finishing high school and finishing her investigation, but can't imagine how the dev could do anything but have one of those choices be a game-over. Having an actual choice there would create two completely different games.

Side characters are pretty good. The possessive boyfriend, the nerd lab partner (I love the touch where he doesn't get a name but stays the generic "LAB_PARTNER"), the girlfriend who cheats with the boyfriend, the principal, etc all add to the story in meaningful ways, and the MC's gradual isolation from all of her friends and increasing identification with the shady characters she is now working with represent genuine character development. That's vanishingly rare in games like this.

There were scenes that clanked with me, such as the shower scene. It is impossible for me to imagine a teenage girl so body-unaware that she'd show herself naked to a bunch of male school-mates to make an intellectual argument. The reason presented for all the characters to be 18 yers old as rising seniors was kind of amusing, but, upon reflection, made no sense at all. There's no possibility that a school district would have all of its students repeat a grade to avoid spending some money, as the cost to give thousands of student an extra years of school would be in the tens of millions of dollars.

The best part of the design is the deliberate eschewing of grinding as a substitute for character development. I was delighted when I saw the dev simply have the MC do three days of dance training rather than make the player take her home, back to the studio, home, back to the studio, etc. There are many unnecessary clicks in the game, I think, but none of them seemed designed to just extend game play artificially. That's also rare and insufficiently appreciated, I think.

The "mom and dad" side of the story was less interesting and coherent, I thought. In fact, I would encourage the dev to consider skipping it entirely, unless it is absolutely necessary to his vision. It jolts us out of the main story and doesn't advance the plot at all. It seems to me that most of what we have seen could be told in flashbacks or journals the MC finds, without interrupting the main game flow. Multiple-POV books tend to be less enjoyable than single-POV books (unless built specifically that way, as in GoT), and I think that that applies to games as well. If at all possible, I'd like this game to focus just on the MC and what she knows and discovers as we play.

In sum, I think that this is a somewhat-flawed execution of a very well-designed game that shows an author who really knows how to tell a story and develop a character. It is sometime frustrating in regards to quests and it was especially irritating to me to find the save feature so late in the game (it's pretty well-hidden and I only stumbled on it by accident), but the basic story, and especially the growing isolation of the MC from all who wish her well, and identification with those who wish her ill, is outstanding. All of the flaws can be easily fixed, and this could well end as a classic of the genre. Well-done, Tino Bambino.

Joe:

Thank you for going out of your way to write me this constructive and highly motivating post. This is the kind of feedback that really gets the wheels turning and makes working fun. You brought up so many great points that I want to respond to, so I'm just going to go down the line:

Once I get the standing portraits in the game then I think most people will put the whole RPGM thing to bed. It will look and feel like the kind of game it is, instead of a VN you control with arrow keys at that point. I'm disappointed in how long it has taken me to find an artist; I spent all summer trying to throw money at several people who advertise commissions on DeviantArt with no luck. It's been pretty easy to find people with an art style I like who have adult/sexual content in their portfolios, but I keep hearing back that Amber is too young, or they just don't like the story.

Dialogue boxes are over 1 second faster going forward. No more bifurcated messages with a pause.

I wouldn't call the lack of a day mechanic a stylistic choice on my part, but it is one I made in the interest of streamlining. There's a canonical order to the different art classes, beach days, hair appointments, etc, but I didn't want to make the player walk back and forth from home and back to advance each line. I thought about making an animated sun/moon/sun insert after every quest, but not every event eats up an entire day. Instead, the moment you complete the beach, hair, and dance goals it is Friday, September 5th 2003 and while you have those quests active the date is floating. I think this is the best way to do it for people who are just here to watch the scenes and not to immerse themselves in the story, but I'm open to other suggestions.

I've rewritten the quest sub screen and the message that displays on the cafeteria door to make the "kill time until lunch" goal more clear. Thanks for pointing this one out, I really don't want to have a game people get lost (spatially) in.

The "Golden Gate" thing is just a teaser for the next update, it barely even made it in to the latest release version. I'll think twice about what unfinished content I make accessible in the future, and will only do so if the dead end it results in is fulfilling in some way.

The quest log is better in Ep2, mostly because I wrote both things together this time, instead of in Ep1 where I don't even think the quest log was in the first version. It came months later.

You're right that a "go back to high school" choice would end up being an instant game over, or result in being an entirely separate game. However, there is a system by which... it's hard to describe. Amber essentially has the same end goal no matter what, but the reason she pursues it can change based on which quests are being pursued more actively. Amber has to remove the superintendent from office, but her motivations can skew towards duty (I have to save the school,) revenge (he took my paper,) or a desire to connect with her mother (she told me I don't have to listen to anyone.) It's not a morality system, nor does it fundamentally change who Amber is as a person, but it's a way to give the player choice in the way they want to assume the role.

I've been waiting over a year for someone to say to me what you said about Amber's increasing isolation. If I'mWilly Wonka, you're the Charlie Bucket who just gave me back my Everlasting Gobstopper. You get everything, you win, thank you so much for appreciating Below the Fold in a way that few others have.

Amber is a shameless fanservice girl who thinks she's an innocent fanservice girl. She's not fooling anybody.

The earthquake is kind of a response to games about highschoolers which either lie about the ages of the characters or CTRL-G high school for college. I don't know if I'm allowed to do this as the author but it's also a bit of a Chekov's Gun that we will have fun with later.

The parents are integrated much better in Episode 2, and the two perspectives will be shifted between by a unique object going forwards into 3 and beyond. This relates back to what I was saying about her motivations, part of how that works is by making the parents' content optional. It's all the same story though. It's a combination of the "island flashbacks" in CW's Arrow and the cutaways to the parents in Netflix's A Series of Unfortunate Events. The parents will either inform the plot of what's happening in Cliffton or reinforce it thematically in each episode.

The Save feature is on the first page on the menu now, other people have mentioned that and I'm really sorry to anyone who was confused. It's honestly an inexcusable design fail that I'm super embarrassed about.

Again thank so much for your post. I read this hours ago at this point and I'm still smiling from ear to ear about it. I hope you are happy with the changes I've instituted for the next release.
 
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TinoBambino

Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
127
227
is there going to be femdom content
There's an entire BDSM questline that will be available around Episode 4/maybe teasers will be present in late ep3. It's kind of a reference to an old win95 erogame that I downloaded off of Limewire a thousand years ago. I think you're gonna have fun with that.
 

fgh24

Active Member
Feb 8, 2019
738
390
There's an entire BDSM questline that will be available around Episode 4/maybe teasers will be present in late ep3. It's kind of a reference to an old win95 erogame that I downloaded off of Limewire a thousand years ago. I think you're gonna have fun with that.
yeah cause i get sick of games that have corruption feature where u cant corrupt other people in truth i think someone should create a game where u can choose to corrupt other people or u get corrupted yourself or u could do neither and have a normal relationship
 

TinoBambino

Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
127
227
Are there any images here?
Not really, not yet. It's been hard trying to find an artist I can get along with. The one image that's in there now I had a friend do for me as a favor in her spare time. I have a new batch of emails out atm though, maybe this time is the time.
 

balabasuu

Member
May 17, 2017
291
237
Not really, not yet. It's been hard trying to find an artist I can get along with. The one image that's in there now I had a friend do for me as a favor in her spare time. I have a new batch of emails out atm though, maybe this time is the time.
Luck with searching.
 
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tuvieja41

Newbie
Jun 30, 2017
84
44
Is this a game or a visual novel? 50 minutes in and I've only controled the character for less than 5 minutes because I literally skipped half the dialogues out of tiredness. Only thing I did was walk around the island and going from one class to the other. I don't know what is the plan for this title but you can only do so much exposition before it turns monotone and boring.

Will check this game further down the line in hopes there's more content but right now I just don't feel like spending another hour not playing the game.
 
D

Deleted member 1463973

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Is this a game or a visual novel? 50 minutes in and I've only controled the character for less than 5 minutes because I literally skipped half the dialogues out of tiredness. Only thing I did was walk around the island and going from one class to the other. I don't know what is the plan for this title but you can only do so much exposition before it turns monotone and boring.

Will check this game further down the line in hopes there's more content but right now I just don't feel like spending another hour not playing the game.
It's TV series.
 

max_002

Active Member
Mar 30, 2019
770
224
Adjust the passage through the objects and set some to the correct height.
such as: barrel (hanging over the hero) and others
 

Joe Steel

Engaged Member
Jan 10, 2018
2,290
3,033
Can't find the third switch in maple's quest. Found first, second and fourth swich. Can someone help?
As I recall, one of the switches is located way over on the right side of the map, to the east of the lake and the cottage. Someone actually tells you that if you ask the right person, probably the native girl, but I don't recall for sure who it is.
 
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TinoBambino

Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
127
227
Is there any update coming or is it yet another abandoned game?

Hey, thanks for reaching out.

It's cooking. I've been feature creeping like a psycho but I'm approaching the release of Episode 3 (showing Gabe how it's done.)

New features include CG and blowjobs.


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2.80 star(s) 5 Votes