VN Ren'Py Beyond Tomorrow [Ch.2] [Dream Games]

[yossa999]

One person. One GPU rendering. And before v.0.13, it was a 3070

Once this is said, I was tagged so I'm answering by allusion, two different games shouldn't be compared. Different devs, different expertise, different hardware, and different time available to write/pose/render/translate/etc.

That's impressive, bro, really. But I already regret joining this discussion. Firstly, this is clearly derail us off topic, and secondly, I completely agree with you that two different games shouldn't be compared, especially in the game's on-topic thread.

But since the topic has been raised, I still have to say that in my opinion, your game is a big trade-off between quality and quantity of renders in favor of quantity. I'm not trying to criticize this approach, and it's obvious that many players like it, as evidenced by the large number of followers your game has. It's just not my cup of tea.

And from what I observe, the higher the quality of the images, the more time the devs spend on preparing the scene and rendering. The developers I follow usually release one or two updates which delivers amount of content for several hours of continuous play. Some release frequent updates, once every 1-3 months, but these updates are very short, 15-30 minutes of play each, so in total they release about the same amount of content per year as those who release one update per year. To go deeper into this, I'll need to compare certain games and their metrics, and that's definitely off-topic, so I'll stop here.

It would be a Dream come true to me if they could make 1500 renders in 1.5 months at a quality level comparable to Beyond Tomorrow. But personally, I have not yet found such examples. So, either all the devs I follow are in cahoots, or there are some objective reasons why they cannot release such a big amount of content per month.

 

[Trope95]

Damn it Trop, what the hell are you doing here!? .19 isn't gonna render itself!

If you guys tag me, I will come and read . And sometimes, answer.

Some Devs think they are entitled to a life outside of rendering and creating dialogue. They are clearly wrong (based on all the evidence presented on F95).

We can use that time to answer posts

That's impressive, bro, really. But I already regret joining this discussion. Firstly, this is clearly derail us off topic, and secondly, I completely agree with you that two different games shouldn't be compared, especially in the game's on-topic thread.

But since the topic has been raised, I still have to say that in my opinion, your game is a big trade-off between quality and quantity of renders in favor of quantity. I'm not trying to criticize this approach, and it's obvious that many players like it, as evidenced by the large number of followers your game has. It's just not my cup of tea.

And from what I observe, the higher the quality of the images, the more time the devs spend on preparing the scene and rendering. The developers I follow usually release one or two updates which delivers amount of content for several hours of continuous play. Some release frequent updates, once every 1-3 months, but these updates are very short, 15-30 minutes of play each, so in total they release about the same amount of content per year as those who release one update per year. To go deeper into this, I'll need to compare certain games and their metrics, and that's definitely off-topic, so I'll stop here.

It would be a Dream come true to me if they could make 1500 renders in 1.5 months at a quality level comparable to Beyond Tomorrow. But personally, I have not yet found such examples. So, either all the devs I follow are in cahoots, or there are some objective reasons why they cannot release such a big amount of content per month.

As I said, two different games can't be compared. So I will answer the technical aspects of your post:
Posing is the real bottleneck when doing a game. Not rendering (at least with the correct hardware). I don't know any dev who can feed enough renders to a dedicated rendering machine to keep it busy 24/7.

You talk about frequent updates and say 3 months. I don't consider that frequent updates. Anything beyond 60 days is slow updating. The subscribers pay monthly, not every 3 months or yearly.

You also talk about 15-30 minutes of playtime per update. You could be surprised. A lot. My Dorm's numbers are up there. If you can read (and click through the scenes) 30,000 words (OK, let's say due to branching it's 80%, 24,000 words) in 15-30 minutes I would be gladly surprised. The numbers usually say that players are capable of reading 11-14,000 words per hour in an AVN (and that includes branching). Let's say 12,500 on average. So every My Dorm's update in the last year would be 97-144 minutes of playtime. 215,873 words in the last year. 17h12m playtime. Do you know any of those games that update yearly that you can play 17h12m for a single update? If the answer is NO, they are not "release about the same amount of content per year as those who release one update per year". And I'm not comparing games. You are.

And to keep it on topic, Beyond Tomorrow's preview renders look amazing. Congrats to the dev.

 

[Trope95]

your answers are getting little cocky don't you think?

you are nowhere even close to games like Summer's Gone, Beyond Tomorrow, Summer Heat or others that stand out visualy. you prefer quantity over quality that's clear. the only thing I don't understand is why you pretend to do the same job as them when it's not true. you brag about numbers but your game looks like it's from 2005. if you will do the same quality as these devs in the same time you write about then we can discuss

other than that i don't see anyone comparing any games except your fan tslojr

Where did you see cocky answers? I talked as a former player and subscriber in the part you quoted.
I never said I was in the same league as any of those games you name. You are the one comparing games, not me. If you could read a post without your fanboyism blinding you, you could see I am against comparing games.

Oh, and I don't think you know how 3D games were in 2005.

what exactly is ignorant about me having no idea there is game doing such large updates in such short time?

From Cambridge Dictionary, my gift for you:

you are the one who brought name of another game here not me

He didn't name a game. He respected the forum rules and directed you to his signature. You didn't, naming other games in this thread.

nothing from what i wrote is rude. his game is not on same level as Summer's Gone so why he should push idea into players that everything what takes more than 3 months to update is slow? let's compare it with games having visual quality as TPC do and not with games that stick to the visual top

Do you support any game? I don't know, so I would put another example about something you pay for (if you are more adult than your words show).
Imagine paying monthly for your electricity bill (that's the adult part I was talking about), but they only provide you with electricity once a year. Can you see what I mean?

And also, you continue bringing other games into the conversation and breaking the forum rules once again.

 

[Dessolos]

I do think stellar visuals like games like this has are not important. I'd still enjoy it if it was just average looking ones. The only time I do think visuals are important is when they are below average and bad to the point it feels unplayable to me. However that is subjective what is bad and what isn't but otherwise not a big deal , compared to everything else that makes a game. However games with amazing visuals stand out to be the most but doesn't mean they are good. I'll play games with really good visuals just for the visuals even if I hate the game.

 

[Mantioxi]

I do think stellar visuals like games like this has are not important. I'd still enjoy it if it was just average looking ones. The only time I do think visuals are important is when they are below average and bad to the point it feels unplayable to me. However that is subjective what is bad and what isn't but otherwise not a big deal , compared to everything else that makes a game. However games with amazing visuals stand out to be the most but doesn't mean they are good. I'll play games with really good visuals just for the visuals even if I hate the game.

Kinda agree, I don't mind if visual novel don't have 4K ultra high res detailed renders but, there is huge but for me: Good, interesting, cinematic compositions and photographic, realistic use of depth of field is must nowadays imo. I can't stand dialogue between characters with super busy background with no blur at all. And strange, wide angles which doesn't fit the scene. Thats when quality of visuals really drops for me.

 

[Dessolos]

Kinda agree, I don't mind if visual novel don't have 4K ultra high res detailed renders but, there is huge but for me: Good, interesting, cinematic compositions and photographic, realistic use of depth of field is must nowadays imo. I can't stand dialogue between characters with super busy background with no blur at all. And strange, wide angles which doesn't fit the scene. Thats when quality of visuals really drops for me.

For me it depends on how the depth of field is used I hate it. Blur / depth of field to be honest it's the first thing I turn off in any normal video game. However games like this tend to use it in a way that doesn't bother me and used to set up a scene so it works.

 

[tslojr]

Oh, the "disingenuous" is my middle name, you get used to it
But yeah, sorry, my bad, it wasn't you who compared the renders count.
And I suggested dropping this topic several times.

No worries. I've actually been pretty interested in trying this one out. Mind if I ask you a question to get the conversation back on topic? I'm really curious just how different the chapter 1 rework is compared to the original version? I know the change log has a few paragraphs devoted to what exactly Dream did as far rewriting/retranslating the text, but is the story radically altered or is it more just extra polish and improved writing?

 

[MiltonPowers]

No worries. I've actually been pretty interested in trying this one out. Mind if I ask you a question to get the conversation back on topic? I'm really curious just how different the chapter 1 rework is compared to the original version? I know the change log has a few paragraphs devoted to what exactly Dream did as far rewriting/retranslating the text, but is the story radically altered or is it more just extra polish and improved writing?

Your forced girlfriend has been removed. Now she's just a friend, but clearly more than a friend. Previously there was 2 different paths and you missed out on meeting LIs, now they are combined into same path. There is a LOT of dialogue and exposition to work through. Some definitely important, some a waste of time IMO, but at least there is lovely renders to look at while you're reading it. As far as I can remember, the rest of the story hasn't changed much, apart from having more details added in.

 

[flaviopaganini]

Your forced girlfriend has been removed. Now she's just a friend, but clearly more than a friend. Previously there was 2 different paths and you missed out on meeting LIs, now they are combined into same path. There is a LOT of dialogue and exposition to work through. Some definitely important, some a waste of time IMO, but at least there is lovely renders to look at while you're reading it. As far as I can remember, the rest of the story hasn't changed much, apart from having more details added in.

I played the remake first and took a look at the original. I felt that the sister's relationship in the original was friendlier.
Am I right?

 

[MiltonPowers]

I played the remake first and took a look at the original. I felt that the sister's relationship in the original was friendlier.
Am I right?

I think so, but it appears they are both starting to recognise they are each at fault and expect chapter 2 to have some getting closer moments.

 

[Dessolos]

Still not sure if I want to replay this sooner or wait for Ch 2 tbh with my backlog right now of normal games and AVN's. If I recall right wasn't until Ch 2 where I started to love the game. While chapter 1 was good from my poor memory I actually kind of liked the bit where we learned a bit of the backstory with the sister and the history of her ex girlfriend that and my favorite redhead doesn't show up until then

 

[MiltonPowers]

Still not sure if I want to replay this sooner or wait for Ch 2 tbh with my backlog right now of normal games and AVN's. If I recall right wasn't until Ch 2 where I started to love the game. While chapter 1 was good from my poor memory I actually kind of liked the bit where we learned a bit of the backstory with the sister and the history of her ex girlfriend that and my favorite redhead doesn't show up until then

In my opinion, drop it down the backlog list. You won't be upset if you wait till Chapter 2. (Particularly if you're going after Sarah, haven't even seen her yet). There has been some Olivia/Sasha back story discussion, but based on the original, there's more to come.

 

[Dessolos]

In my opinion, drop it down the backlog list. You won't be upset if you wait till Chapter 2. (Particularly if you're going after Sarah, haven't even seen her yet). There has been some Olivia/Sasha back story discussion, but based on the original, there's more to come.

Yeah what my thought process is too. While I may like other LI I don't recall them all that much which is why Sarah is the only one I can recall lol. That and ive been playing a little less AVN's now days since I been trying to get back to playing other games as well. Plus since I forgot alot about the game im not all that invested like I was initially so the wait probably won't seem that long for me compared to someone that is invested right now.

 

[MiltonPowers]

Yeah what my thought process is too. While I may like other LI I don't recall them all that much which is why Sarah is the only one I can recall lol. That and ive been playing a little less AVN's now days since I been trying to get back to playing other games as well. Plus since I forgot alot about the game im not all that invested like I was initially so the wait probably won't seem that long for me compared to someone that is invested right now.

I remember being pretty meh on Sarah in the original. But I've seen renders of her upgrade in the remake. . Wow. (Def think I'll have to add a Sarah playthrough).

 

[Den1mo]

Your forced girlfriend has been removed

some players made it look worse than it actually was. I remember funny situation when player from here came to server and asked. Dream spent 15 minutes explaining relationship between mc and Samantha and then same player came back here saying something completely different than Dream told him

same as scene with Olivia and Sasha. players voted on patreon for it not to be skippable because according to them it was part of the story. when he removed the skip they complained that skip button was not there. lot of shit players criticize today are things they themselves demanded

 

[MiltonPowers]

some players made it look worse than it actually was. I remember funny situation when player from here came to server and asked. Dream spent 15 minutes explaining relationship between mc and Samantha and then same player came back here saying something completely different than Dream told him

same as scene with Olivia and Sasha. players voted on patreon for it not to be skippable because according to them it was part of the story. when he removed the skip they complained that skip button was not there. lot of shit players criticize today are things they themselves demanded. it's funny

Gotta agree. Some people just have to find something to complain about.

I don't like forced romances/sex, but they are what they are. If they're bad, I delete the game and move on. I didn't mind Sam, I would have chosen her anyway.

People giving false information! That doesn't happen on F95 does it.

Then you've got the random girl completely unromanceable, making out with her partner - Oh no, it's NTR. A scene of Sasha/Olivia is not crucial to the story, but Dream puts it in for us to watch. If there is no skip button, use the CTRL and move on. FFS.

I just hope during the remake process, Dream has learnt to ignore the whining and concentrate on providing the game, he wants to provide.

 

[Dessolos]

Gotta agree. Some people just have to find something to complain about.

I don't like forced romances/sex, but they are what they are. If they're bad, I delete the game and move on. I didn't mind Sam, I would have chosen her anyway.

People giving false information! That doesn't happen on F95 does it.

Then you've got the random girl completely unromanceable, making out with her partner - Oh no, it's NTR. A scene of Sasha/Olivia is not crucial to the story, but Dream puts it in for us to watch. If there is no skip button, use the CTRL and move on. FFS.

I just hope during the remake process, Dream has learnt to ignore the whining and concentrate on providing the game, he wants to provide.

Yeah very few games I played I liked a forced romance or sex scene. I didn't mind them in this game I felt like they were mostly forced for the sake of setting up a pre existing relationship and we would of gotten an option to dump Sam later if we wanted. ( not sure if I would of on my main save even tho I did love Sarah's looks) lol the only 2 LI I can recall. I also did like the Sasha/Olivia scene tho I see how it was unnecessary to set up their relationship.

 

[yossa999]

No worries. I've actually been pretty interested in trying this one out. Mind if I ask you a question to get the conversation back on topic? I'm really curious just how different the chapter 1 rework is compared to the original version? I know the change log has a few paragraphs devoted to what exactly Dream did as far rewriting/retranslating the text, but is the story radically altered or is it more just extra polish and improved writing?

Huh, it looks like the guys have already told everything
Yeah, basically the plot of the first chapter remained the same, the details and composition of some scenes has changed, although the meaning remains the same. The quality of the graphics has improved, in some places quite significantly, many scenes look and sound much more natural and dialogues flow better. Sam is no longer the default mandatory girlfriend, although the sympathy between them remains. A new character has appeared, Chloe, Kimi's roommate, she is quite funny. In general, I liked it.

 

[AlexMpog]

I don't like forced romances/sex, but they are what they are. If they're bad, I delete the game and move on. I didn't mind Sam, I would have chosen her anyway.

Agree, I liked Sam as well.
Though usually when players meet such forced chars they either like them and go along with it or they hate them. Not the first time, not the last time.

I had at least 2 situations where I didn't like forced chars, 1st one was edgy/annoying and 2nd one blackmailed MC)).. I simply deleted both games without complaining.

Then you've got the random girl completely unromanceable, making out with her partner - Oh no, it's NTR. A scene of Sasha/Olivia is not crucial to the story, but Dream puts it in for us to watch. If there is no skip button, use the CTRL and move on. FFS.

hmm, well, not fully agree, - if it's not crucial for a story then why put it in a game? for the sake of it?
I think if you have time to put in a game a scene that is not important for a plot, then you also have time to make it optional, especially if it's some controversial tag, for somebody it can be simply off-putting, just my 2 cents.

and yeah, complaining that it's NTR, that's just rediculous

 

[MiltonPowers]

Agree, I liked Sam as well.
Though usually when players meet such forced chars they either like them and go along with it or they hate them. Not the first time, not the last time.

I had at least 2 situations where I didn't like forced chars, 1st one was edgy/annoying and 2nd one blackmailed MC)).. I simply deleted both games without complaining.



hmm, well, not fully agree, - if it's not crucial for a story then why put it in a game? for the sake of it?
I think if you have time to put in a game a scene that is not important for a plot, then you also have time to make it optional, especially if it's some controversial tag, for somebody it can be simply off-putting, just my 2 cents.

and yeah, complaining that it's NTR, that's just rediculous

I can see your point. Because she wasn’t li I didn’t really care. But can see where you’re coming from.