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CassieBare

Lead Developer of Blue Swallow
Game Developer
Jan 25, 2020
519
1,267
Given that the first patreon tier do not get game access, tier 2 wait 3 weeks, tier 3, 2 weeks etc, I would guess it becomes available about a month (possibly 2) after the game drops for the high tier backers.

On that note, I like this game, but the tiers for access for day 1 are WAAAAY more expensive than any other game I have backed for this sort of content (even non-porn game content for that matter), and seems a bit self-defeating to me. The fact that you have to pay so much for day 1 access made me decide not to back at all, and I doubt that I am alone.
Appreciate the criticism and more than happy to re-evaluate.

Looking at two other games in the space, FA and ORS. Why did I pick those? They aren't strong 'engine' games (like those that use Unity and the like), they are high-quality, story and character-focused. FA because, well...obvious. ORS because its a CYOA. Hope those reasons make sense.

FA ($5, $10, $20) - 2,260 paid members
ORS ($6, $11.50, $23) - 2,549 paid members. [We'll ignore the higher tiers because they're not related to content, really]

Blue Swallow ($3, $5, $10, $25) - 312 paid members.

I figure those are fair comparisons and not too far off from where Blue Swallow is. In fact, we have a content-access tier lower than both and significantly lower than ORS.

So, I'm all about pricing appropriately and I sincerely want to have people supporting in realistic (and consistent) ways, but especially with the stark difference between the paid member count, it's very hard to keep producing content every 1-3 weeks with the income flow we currently have.

Thoughts?
 
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FauxCount

Newbie
Aug 27, 2017
71
27
Hey Faux, I try to stay on top of game breaking glitches and get them into the hotfix when they happen.
We usually only wait for next cycle for bugs that you can bypass.
Sorry its felt frustrating though.
I mean, the one that I posted happens every time in the prologue and has no bypass apart from not playing the prologue at all. Even if it slips through an initial release, I can tell that I wasn't the first to report it and that it also wasn't deemed enough to recommend a hotfix.

EDIT:
CassieBare: FWIW, my gripe about a gamebreaking glitch that's hung around with no patch shouldn't be taken as a criticism of the pay scheme. I might advocate for a little more frequent filtering down to public releases than only on full integer advancements, but even setting that aside I respect the need to make sure your work is financially sustainable. Mostly I want to clarify that this frustration above isn't negative feedback on how you choose to monetize. (Especially since I'm a non-paying player for the moment)
 
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TerumiNin

Member
Jan 9, 2019
185
107
Put it on Steam in Early Access for $10? Of course that's a flat $10 and not $10 a month. Steam should probably be the way at this point anyway since they allow non-con...which according to the tags is planned for this...and that's been an issue with Patreon.

Could also compare it to Course of Temptation whose newest version is free after a week (or 2 weeks?).
 

MagLev

Member
Oct 1, 2017
339
579
CassieBare I'm curious about something, are there hard technical limitations that prevent the game from having more than 10 save slots? It's really limiting, I know you can export saves and I do but 10 is really too few. Course of Temptation is the gold standard in Twine games with basically unlimited saves, but even failing that you'd want more than 10.
 

Fictionary

Newbie
May 26, 2017
60
58
CassieBare I'm curious about something, are there hard technical limitations that prevent the game from having more than 10 save slots? It's really limiting, I know you can export saves and I do but 10 is really too few. Course of Temptation is the gold standard in Twine games with basically unlimited saves, but even failing that you'd want more than 10.
We will be re-implementing more saves.
We had to remove it because of poor implementation causing bugs in other places.

I hope to get this in when we launch v9 at the latest ( fingers crossed ).
Sorry for the delay here.
 

T7792

Member
Oct 5, 2019
153
56
Appreciate the criticism and more than happy to re-evaluate.

Looking at two other games in the space, FA and ORS. Why did I pick those? They aren't strong 'engine' games (like those that use Unity and the like), they are high-quality, story and character-focused. FA because, well...obvious. ORS because its a CYOA. Hope those reasons make sense.

FA ($5, $10, $20) - 2,260 paid members
ORS ($6, $11.50, $23) - 2,549 paid members. [We'll ignore the higher tiers because they're not related to content, really]

Blue Swallow ($3, $5, $10, $25) - 312 paid members.

I figure those are fair comparisons and not too far off from where Blue Swallow is. In fact, we have a content-access tier lower than both and significantly lower than ORS.

So, I'm all about pricing appropriately and I sincerely want to have people supporting in realistic (and consistent) ways, but especially with the stark difference between the paid member count, it's very hard to keep producing content every 1-3 weeks with the income flow we currently have.

Thoughts?
I am unsure what game OSR is (Our Red String?), but I am familiar with FA (have backed in the past and will again, but as it's been over a year since the last version got released it's just too long for me remain backing.)

For me, the problem is, your lowest tier (A tier with no real incentive for players) is 3 times the price of FA's 'Analyst' tier at $1. Neither your lvl1 nor FA's lvl1 give any early access to the build, though FA does give some in-game content bonuses.

Your next tier says that you will wait 3 weeks. For me, when I read that I think "well, if I'm going to wait 3 weeks for the game to be playable, I may as well just wait until it's free."

In comparison, FA's lvl2 at $5 gives the backer access to the bug fixed version as soon as it's ready. When I look at that, I think, "err, why not." Over the past 3 years, I have been a backer at this tier for about 2 years (in total time spent backing).

FA's more expensive tiers are there, and people do go for them, but most people just want to get a playable release asap, and that is what FA's tier 2 does. By grading when people get access, you are encouraging people to wait.

You get people onto your higher tiers by encouraging them to try the lower ones to get them invested in the development of the game, but even then most people will never consider the higher tiers. I may buy a porn game for the price of your higher tiers, but I would not pay that much per month for one.

Also, when it comes to the amount of backers, other than what I have said above. I suspect there are a few reasons.

1, Time. FA has been around for a longer time and has had time to build momentum.
2, Discord. You have Discord access as a perk of backing (according to your tier descriptions). FA's Discord is open to all.
3, Style. I like the way your game looks, but FA's is more eye catching. It uses bright colors in its pictures, and while they are less stylized, I find then bolder in look. I also like the way it uses both photos (more A.I. photos now) and the paper doll images. I think FA's look helps get people to try the game and from there back it.

I don't want this to come off as overly negative, as I like your game. I did consider backing it and would have except for the reasons above. I hope this game continues to grow both in terms of content and supporters. I also hope that what I have written is seen by you as me wanting you and your game to succeed. I am dyslexic and find writing/typing unpleasant, and I would not have spent as long as I have writing this if I did not want you to do well.
 
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CassieBare

Lead Developer of Blue Swallow
Game Developer
Jan 25, 2020
519
1,267
I am unsure what game OSR is (Our Red String?), but I am familiar with FA (have backed in the past and will again, but as it's been over a year since the last version got released it's just too long for me remain backing.)

For me, the problem is, your lowest tier (A tier with no real incentive for players) is 3 times the price of FA's 'Analyst' tier at $1. Neither your lvl1 nor FA's lvl1 give any early access to the build, though FA does give some in-game content bonuses.

Your next tier says that you will wait 3 weeks. For me, when I read that I think "well, if I'm going to wait 3 weeks for the game to be playable, I may as well just wait until it's free."

In comparison, FA's lvl2 at $5 gives the backer access to the bug fixed version as soon as it's ready. When I look at that, I think, "err, why not." Over the past 3 years, I have been a backer at this tier for about 2 years (in total time spent backing).

FA's more expensive tiers are there, and people do go for them, but most people just want to get a playable release asap, and that is what FA's tier 2 does. By grading when people get access, you are encouraging people to wait.

You get people onto your higher tiers by encouraging them to try the lower ones to get them invested in the development of the game, but even then most people will never consider the higher tiers. I may buy a porn game for the price of your higher tiers, but I would not pay that much per month for one.

Also, when it comes to the amount of backers, other than what I have said above. I suspect there are a few reasons.

1, Time. FA has been around for a longer time and has had time to build momentum.
2, Discord. You have Discord access as a perk of backing (according to your tier descriptions). FA's Discord is open to all.
3, Style. I like the way your game looks, but FA's is more eye catching. It uses bright colors in its pictures, and while they are less stylized, I find then bolder in look. I also like the way it uses both photos (more A.I. photos now) and the paper doll images. I think FA's look helps get people to try the game and from there back it.

I don't want this to come off as overly negative, as I like your game. I did consider backing it and would have except for the reasons above. I hope this game continues to grow both in terms of content and supporters. I also hope that what I have written is seen by you as me wanting you and your game to succeed. I am dyslexic and find writing/typing unpleasant, and I would not have spent as long as I have writing this if I did not want you to do well.
You aren't coming off negative at all, thank you and appreciate your support!

I'll definitely take all of your comments into consideration, but wanted to make one comment in response:

If you are willing to pay $5/mo for FA on releases that may or may not occur, I find it interesting that you aren't interested in supporting Blue Swallow at $3/mo to receive releases about every 2-3 weeks. Granted, they aren't the 'newest and shiniest' but they are new content for everyone at that tier.

The desire to 'wait til it's free' is interesting as well because the public releases do not have HD art and only contain Prologue content, as well as other things that will be relegated to the supporter tiers going forward as we continue development. Beyond that, you could wait 3 weeks for the supporter release or you could wait something like 2 months for our next public release. Which, as I mentioned, is truncated.

Thanks again!
 

JEGEK

New Member
Apr 28, 2022
9
9
1731348059607.png 1731348092818.png

Have I somehow bricked my save or is the Philippiness part not written yet and I'll have to wait for more updates?
 

ffive

Conversation Conqueror
Jun 19, 2022
6,214
14,515
CassieBare I'm curious about something, are there hard technical limitations that prevent the game from having more than 10 save slots? It's really limiting, I know you can export saves and I do but 10 is really too few.
Honestly, you should really only ever save you game to the folder on the local drive, instead of relying on the browser slots -- not only you risk getting these accidentally deleted if you choose to clear the cache, but also due to all browser applications sharing the same, quite limited space, every save you make increases the likeliness another save, be it from this game or any other, won't have enough space left to fit, and you'll just get an error.
 

T7792

Member
Oct 5, 2019
153
56
You aren't coming off negative at all, thank you and appreciate your support!

I'll definitely take all of your comments into consideration, but wanted to make one comment in response:

If you are willing to pay $5/mo for FA on releases that may or may not occur, I find it interesting that you aren't interested in supporting Blue Swallow at $3/mo to receive releases about every 2-3 weeks. Granted, they aren't the 'newest and shiniest' but they are new content for everyone at that tier.

The desire to 'wait til it's free' is interesting as well because the public releases do not have HD art and only contain Prologue content, as well as other things that will be relegated to the supporter tiers going forward as we continue development. Beyond that, you could wait 3 weeks for the supporter release or you could wait something like 2 months for our next public release. Which, as I mentioned, is truncated.

Thanks again!
I think it comes down to the optics of the tier's. It would be worth making the differences between the free, teir1, teir2 etc more visible. As it stands I had no clue that the public release had any downgrade in art or content, I would suggest showing a comparison between the 2 somewhere people will be able to see them (if you already have, I have not seen it). My suggestion would be to add a few of the pics to a special comparison page at the end of the free version, so people can see what they are missing.

Also, if the official free (all games get pirated sooner or later) release is only ever going to have the prologue, you need to make that very clear. If you are releasing more to the free one, then make the time gap between the paid and free one visible to all as well. Likewise, if you have cut content from the free version, you should have an example of what will be missed on the free version. Again, I would have a scene run side by side at the end of the free version to show what will be missed.

Maybe I've missed something, but either way, I am hoping you do well, and I will continue to consider backing, though I would prefer to know what sort of content has been cut from the free one and what the pic quality differences were first.
 

CassieBare

Lead Developer of Blue Swallow
Game Developer
Jan 25, 2020
519
1,267
I think it comes down to the optics of the tier's. It would be worth making the differences between the free, teir1, teir2 etc more visible. As it stands I had no clue that the public release had any downgrade in art or content, I would suggest showing a comparison between the 2 somewhere people will be able to see them (if you already have, I have not seen it). My suggestion would be to add a few of the pics to a special comparison page at the end of the free version, so people can see what they are missing.

Also, if the official free (all games get pirated sooner or later) release is only ever going to have the prologue, you need to make that very clear. If you are releasing more to the free one, then make the time gap between the paid and free one visible to all as well. Likewise, if you have cut content from the free version, you should have an example of what will be missed on the free version. Again, I would have a scene run side by side at the end of the free version to show what will be missed.

Maybe I've missed something, but either way, I am hoping you do well, and I will continue to consider backing, though I would prefer to know what sort of content has been cut from the free one and what the pic quality differences were first.
Thank you for this. We'll look into designing some infographics.

More will be added to the public versions, but it's focused on lifepath and UI/UX improvements.
 
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mc18762020

Newbie
Jan 17, 2022
28
57
Release Day + Progress!
0.8.2.1 has been released to Sudden Agent tiers and up. 0.8.1.1 has been released to Origin tiers.

For 0.8.3, in the past week we've:
  • Finished off the remaining skill and trait GIFs which will be added to pop-ups in 0.8.3
  • Begun sketching out the plans for the first Act I (Main Game) event for you spies.
  • Added in four new sets of clothing for our models (and of course, the Loser outfit).
  • Offered different accessories for purchase in the Mall during the Main game for those who want to switch/swap/make a lewk.
  • Begun sketching out the Loser arc for HS.
  • Speaking of which, what kind of goals would you like to see in the Loser arc? The Nerds have their Cosplay and TwitchCon competitions, the Jocks have their Varsity championships, the Alphas have their popularity contest and Prom...but what might define a successful/unsuccessful time as a Loser in HS? Put your comments, ideas and thoughts in the comments!
We're also in the first stages of planning the restructuring of character creation. No longer will you choose Claire's parental traits and have those decide Claire. Now there will be a character creation sheet at the beginning of the game where you will customize much of Claire and then dive into the prologue to define her history, skills and traits. That will be coming in 0.8.4! We're also working on a couple infographics to help visualize release timelines and what's included/offered in supporter tiers as well as what is not included with the public releases. Thank you again and enjoy!


 

gregers

Forum Fanatic
Dec 9, 2018
4,856
6,243
No longer will you choose Claire's parental traits and have those decide Claire. Now there will be a character creation sheet at the beginning of the game where you will customize much of Claire and then dive into the prologue to define her history, skills and traits.
Huh. I thought that was one of the more interesting design decisions in the game. Ah well, not like there's anything wrong with a more traditional character creation.
 

CassieBare

Lead Developer of Blue Swallow
Game Developer
Jan 25, 2020
519
1,267
Huh. I thought that was one of the more interesting design decisions in the game. Ah well, not like there's anything wrong with a more traditional character creation.
Gregers, I sincerely appreciate this. Unfortunately, the design decision has been one of the biggest reasons behind people not supporting the game and review bombing us. =/
 

WalkTheEdge

Newbie
Nov 29, 2017
74
105
Gregers, I sincerely appreciate this. Unfortunately, the design decision has been one of the biggest reasons behind people not supporting the game and review bombing us. =/
I agree with it being an interesting design, but it does make the character creation process very opaque, especially if you want to design your character in a certain way. Don't know how feasible it would be, but possibly you could do both, and let players choose which one to use?
 

_DarkDesires_

Member
Jan 3, 2018
334
479
I agree with it being an interesting design, but it does make the character creation process very opaque, especially if you want to design your character in a certain way. Don't know how feasible it would be, but possibly you could do both, and let players choose which one to use?
Good idea, or use the original - but with optional shown stat changes based on the choices.
Such a shame that a cool, original idea like this gets buried because it...requires using your brain a bit?
 
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vicaddict

Member
Sep 29, 2019
202
420
I also liked the unique way of introducing the player to the game. I can understand why people would like a character sheet, but I feel a bit sad about it. I like it when not every game uses the same mechanics and I thought this was a nice way of doing it. Maybe a bit more clarity about the choices and their outcome could have persuaded some of the critics, but I get it.

I guess this is what some of these fancy mustache wearing modern artists must feel like, when the audience just sees a bunch of colors and shapes instead of the bigger picture. :HideThePain:
 

GTK/HLK

Newbie
Sep 28, 2017
88
49
Always liked the intro, and some of the options up to the post-hs.

Though somethings could be better aligned to the kind of play expected.

Like personaly, i probably would of gone alil too deep. Which probably wouldnt fit a game thats meant to be a Spy Story. So getting stats done in a very pleasing but timely manner, so they can have effects on the main part of the story wouldnt kinda become something it aint.

(aka, way too long, and filled with unnecessary info or details. Like a "Alter Ego" choose your lifepath playthrough, except with H-Game Content filled in each stage. Bloated and not what the games trynna cover)


Like some options with your "Count" always seemed like trying to be flavor, but trying to matter at the same time.

(Also the understanding of how you're seen in terms of the prom scene or other scenes. Scores and Grades ETC.)

But since it's the main creation rather than the Extra details Til shipping off into the main arcs.

Some wording could of been adjusted.

Like the chest size could of had better punctuation(for the largest one, with how it reads. Since it clashes with the previous part of the sentence into the Character option.)

"Bras all disagreed but" something something big/massive. Which would be "Proud of my Bras, All Disagreed" Feels/Reads like one of those stories where youre an inanimate object that has sentience.

It probably could of had both, but I understand if it's alot of time to figure out how to cook it to your vision, when many want to take their Agent into the field.
(When it comes to obvious stats, or Reading into it, which most can do. but get confused with the mix of outcomes that can't be easily backtracked to rerolled.)

Least I got some of the old versions if I want to enjoy the Old Intro.
Always found myself spending alot of time in it.(but probably not for the right reasons overall)

Edit:
Loser Lifepath?
Depends on how the general consensus is for that. Is it living life too safe. Too General to be special in something?
To blending in the background to be noticed.
(Mob character lifestyle? aka generic to the point that you're easily marked as a stereotype in the flesh? or something similar)

Or is it the path where you're targeted for failing in certain School Goals to be strived for?
Failing in Social/Intelligence/Physicality/Drive or "Purity"?

Easier to blend in, If you just push alil confidence/belong there, but never under thorough scrutiny if alerting/alerted?
(Dk why I got the image of the Guy In Very simple dress-Button up and glasses- holding a rifle. Used by people as an example of the unexpected)
 
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Dec 26, 2018
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I also liked the unique way of introducing the player to the game. I can understand why people would like a character sheet, but I feel a bit sad about it. I like it when not every game uses the same mechanics and I thought this was a nice way of doing it. Maybe a bit more clarity about the choices and their outcome could have persuaded some of the critics, but I get it.
I like it too since character sheets can often be misleading in these types of narrative focused games because they often don't show how these stats are supposed to work. In a hack-n-slash RPG it's fairly straightforward to intuit that strength makes you hit harder, dexeterity lets you dodge more often, intelligence increases magic damage and so on. But in a game like this it's much less clear of what situations will allow you to use your stats and traits, and so the idea of having an introductory narrative which shows you how those stats work in game was actually a good idea in my opinion.
 
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3.80 star(s) 39 Votes