Can a protagonist that engages in incestuous acts ever be truly likeable?

[DownTheDrain]

For example, think of the greatest love story you know of, whether it be a movie or novel, and then make those characters siblings. Would you still be on board with their journey and root for them? Or would the depravity of their incestuous relationship mar the entire thing?

There obviously would be some rewrites needed to account for society's view on incestuous relationships, but apart from that it could probably work for siblings.
However, mother-son or father-daughter is an entirely different story because the power dynamic changes a lot.

 

[gamersglory]

True unfortunately sense haily seems to not be what people want it may not get finished. Lack of Money
So that's why I get a little triggered.
As for father-daughter Intimate Relations is our biggest hit here on F95

 

[DownTheDrain]

As for father-daughter Intimate Relations is our biggest hit here on F95

I haven't played Intimate Relations so I can't really comment on that but I assume it's not exactly a regular love story.
Father-daughter certainly can work, even for good guy MCs, but it would probably require a different approach and more sensitivity than your average classic romance. Well, either that or a good sense of humor.

 

[gamersglory]

We approached it with more the daughter instigating it. but it works

 

[DownTheDrain]

We approached it with more the daughter instigating it. but it works

That's one way to avoid the power dynamic issue I guess.
Didn't even think of that.

 

[polywog]

Or is it something you're truly able to look past?

Read the developer's notes, some games allow you to look past things, but in other games it is against the rules. Pokemon is an example of the latter, you must catch them all, no exceptions. It literally says so in the EULA. You can't just pick and choose the pokemon that you like, you have to take the good with the bad.
That doesn't mean you have to like them.

 

[おい！]

For me the answer is no, a mc who shags his mother or sister/sisters is not likeable. It does not matter what the female members of the family look like, from the games/vn's I have played, the mc is nothing more than a creep/rapist. Just by looking at the various things they do, watching mom/sisters/sisters shower/piss/get/dressed/undressed, grooming/drugging/getting them drunk, molesting them in their sleep, blackmail etc...............

 

[baneini]

That's one way to avoid the power dynamic issue I guess.
Didn't even think of that.

It's better if you have power dynamic issue. I don't play incest games for the consensual romance side of it. It doesn't fit, are you breaking a taboo or not?
I've played couple games that had the daughter harbor feelings for daddy, and seduce the father culminating ina long heartfelt conversation how she always wanted to fuck him and he agrees to it and it's just impossible to be aroused by it.

Just have the father go after the daughter in a manner that is against the social norms, or ignore it completely. Make a non incest game instead.

 

[DownTheDrain]

It's better if you have power dynamic issue. I don't play incest games for the consensual romance side of it. It doesn't fit, are you breaking a taboo or not?
I've played couple games that had the daughter harbor feelings for daddy, and seduce the father culminating ina long heartfelt conversation how she always wanted to fuck him and he agrees to it and it's just impossible to be aroused by it.

Just have the father go after the daughter in a manner that is against the social norms, or ignore it completely. Make a non incest game instead.

I don't necessarily disagree but the OP specifically asked for a likeable MC.
Corrupting your daughter, or dominating your mother, or whatever combination and fetish you prefer might make for a more arousing experience but the character doing it probably won't be all that endearing.

 

[DarthSeduction]

For example, think of the greatest love story you know of, whether it be a movie or novel, and then make those characters siblings. Would you still be on board with their journey and root for them? Or would the depravity of their incestuous relationship mar the entire thing?

To me, the answer is yes. I don't think there's anything wrong with two consenting adults entering into any kind of relationship. Even in real life, so long as they don't have children together, I don't see anything wrong as long as it's what they both want. Of course, that's always a lot harder when it's M/S or F/D, because the question of consent changes a lot, but siblings, cousins, what have you? I don't find it wrong.

For me the answer is no, a mc who shags his mother or sister/sisters is not likeable. It does not matter what the female members of the family look like, from the games/vn's I have played, the mc is nothing more than a creep/rapist. Just by looking at the various things they do, watching mom/sisters/sisters shower/piss/get/dressed/undressed, grooming/drugging/getting them drunk, molesting them in their sleep, blackmail etc...............

You're right, none of those specific characters are likable. But what if an incest game existed with no molestation, no blackmail, no peeping, and no harassment?

Take for instance my own incest title, the MCs, a twin brother and sister gain an incestuous relationship due to trauma. They come to it mutually, and struggle over it somewhat, but neither is creeping on the other, it's a genuine romantic story. What would make them inherently unlikable in that case?

We approached it with more the daughter instigating it. but it works

Strangely I hadn't thought of this game when I said earlier that I couldn't think of a way to do this. The answer, and what really makes it work in this game, is that you control both of them. So you, as the player, do know what's going on in the daughter's head, as well as the father's. This makes it plausible to get over the questionable consent in that power dynamic.

 

[redknight00]

I strongly believe a character doesn't need to be good to be likable, so all actions such as rabe, blackmail, drugging, and incest can be excused in the story can benefit from them. A good example would be Luthor from SU (kinda cheating because he's a parody character), he's done all kinds of bad in the game while still having some characteristics that make him relatable and even admirable, he's smart, cunning, ambitious, style and a habit of hitting people with hard truths they often choose to ignore, all of that makes him an interesting person to play as, even if he's a villain.

That takes to my second point: character, few games have protagonists that could pass as humans, we have the 18yo horndogs, the average japanese boys whose sole character is being nice and indecisive, the retards in leechertown, etc. These are not characters, a person has flaws, qualities, goals, skills, some people even have them not related to sex!

 

[gamersglory]

I'm not a fan of our western games trying to mimic Japanese tropes. If I want an H-game I get an H-game

 

[DownTheDrain]

I'm not a fan of our western games trying to mimic Japanese tropes. If I want an H-game I get an H-game

I don't really mind.
Not that I haven't played a metric ton of h-games, there wasn't really any western alternative back in the day, but there are certain things that annoy me even in Japanese games I'm fond of.

For once, the censorship issue. More importantly though, they often have a tendency to overdo things. Their comedy is often too silly and in your face. Their drama (or moe or whatever the proper term may be) is even worse and you end up backstabbed by all 3 of your best friends while your boss rapes your wife and daughter and your dog gets run over by your childhood nemesis.
So I'm totally up for a slightly toned down version of their storytelling and I would love if western adult games came anywhere close to their RPG and strategy gameplay.

 

[215303j]

I think there are a couple of reasons why incest is as taboo as it is, and if the MC is to remain sympathetic, you have to find a plausible way to deal with it.

For instance:
1) Genetically it's not a good idea to have kids with a close relative (usually). This is not an immediate problem because of contraceptives / condoms, but what about the long run? What does a character want out of a long-term relationship? Is it even long-term relationship material? Or is it quick sex to satisfy an urge? Or is it sex besides a stable relationship with somebody else?

2) The power dynamic. A father wanting to have sex with his daughter is creepy by definition and similar to a boss wanting sex with his employee, but even stronger because the daughter can't "quit her job". In a brother-sister or uncle-cousin relationship is less important. One way to deal with this, as mentioned, is to have the daughter/sister as the aggressor. That works really well in several games already mentioned in this thread, but it can also make the MC look weak and indecisive.

3) The taboo in itself and the problems with the outside world. This is also something that has to be resolved somehow. But maybe it can also be the reason / driver behind the incest: both partners are drawn to the forbidden fruit. I once read a story about a writer of erotic incest literature. His daughter read his work online, became a fan and at some point decided to email the writer. They exchanged emails for a while, while being oblivious of each others indentities, but at some point the father figured it out and then he proceeded to seduce his daugther, partially via the email, partially via normal dates.

4) The fear that it doesn't work out in the end, and that you'll end up having ruined the normal relationship for the rest of your life. This is one particular problem that I have very rarely seen properly addressed in any erotic story or game, but it is particularly well suited to a game where you have the possibility to make decisions and branches.

5) The age difference (in case of father-daughter or mother-son) which is a taboo in itself and presents it's own problems, which are similar to those mentioned in the points 1, 2 and 3 above.

One example that has not yet been mentioned in this thread: GGGB:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That's also a pretty good and realistic approach, although perhaps slightly unromantic.

 

[thecardinal]

Why does the MC have to be good to be likable? I prefer my protagonists morally grey.

 

[215303j]

Why does the MC have to be good to be likable? I prefer my protagonists morally grey.

Morally grey however should not be the same as bland. And also not a complete douchebag.
Unfortunately many (most?) MC's are both...

In the end everybody is grey to some extent.

 

[HarveyD]

Can a protaganist (or character) who engages in incestous relations be likeable? Yes, of course! Anyone who truely thinks they can't probably wouldn't be anywhere near an incest game.

As people have pointed out though, being likeable isn't the same as being a good person. Bad guys and villians can also be likeable. But I assume what you really were asking is if they could be a good person who the player empathizes with and supports. The answer is still yes, but they have to be a well written charatcer. Which means they can't be a blank, faceless dick, there just to fuck chicks. That means character development and all those other dificult writery things.

It also means your character can't really do any shady stuff. No rape when they're awake, no rape when they're alseep. No sexual assault, aware or otherwise. No spying, no drugging, no mind control. No third party alterations of perception/feelings/reality. And two things that likely stop a lot of devs feeling it would be a worthwhile endeavour: A single LI and ROMANCE. A character who is just whimsically screwing his mother, auntie, older sister, twin, younger sister, cousin, neighbour, neighbour's mother, neighbour's sibling, best friend's mother, childhood friend, boss, librarian, local shopkeeper and almost any vaguely attractive girl he comes into contact with, ALL AT THE SAME TIME, can't really be all that likeable. He doesn't have time to be. Even worse if he's telling more than one, or all of them, that he's in love with them.

In short, a likeable incest protag is possible if he's firstly a likeable person. The incest is honestly superficial.

 

[thecardinal]

Morally grey however should not be the same as bland. And also not a complete douchebag.
Unfortunately many (most?) MC's are both...

In the end everybody is grey to some extent.

I guess I should have said 'Morally Grey©' and tossed in a link to tvtropes.

And I'd rather play a game with consistency. Even if the mc is an unlikablly bland douchebag, I'd prefer that to a paladin with a savior complex.

 

[DarthSeduction]

So, here's the thing with a bad character and being likable. You have to acknowledge what makes them bad. Someone suggested Lex Luther. Lex Luther is a character I quite like in general, in fact, it's why I like the name Alex so much, but, I go into it understanding that he's bad, that he is meant to lose. Lex also has a lot of charisma. Why does that matter? Does Max have charisma? Does what's his face from Man of the House have charisma? No. They don't.

And that's generally the case with these incest games where the MC is unlikable. They're creeps if they get any characterization at all, and normally they don't, making it impossible to sympathize with them. On top of that, their vile acts are treated with kid gloves, if at all, as they peep and molest their way to sexual glory it's rarely addressed and if done so it's treated more like a minor annoyance than anything resembling an actual reaction to such vile acts.

But then you have something like Waifu Academy. The story is intentionally over the top, which is a good starting point, because it makes you primed to laugh, but on top of that, the MC has actual character. He's commanding and charismatic, he attracts the attentions of both the women and the men around him by nature of his confidence and stature. He also allows an innocent reporter girl to get raped before "Saving her" after which he allows her to misunderstand and goes on with a sexual relationship with her just so that she doesn't continue being a thorn in his side. He also molests his sister until she begs for it, rapes his mother in the silliest way possible, and spends quite a while molesting/blackmailing the previous disciplinary head until she becomes desperate for it. He's a fucking monster, but he's likable because he's presented as charismatic, and his goals are clearly lined out, giving us context for why he does what he does which has nothing to do with what he does in and of itself. He is vile in service of a higher calling.

 

[kaiten]

You have to accept the fact that your feelings are just that, your feelings. Look at it this way (and I'm going extreme, at least extreme from my mental viewpoint): you may think scat is gross, offputting and whatever else may come to mind, but i bet there are people here that love it above all else. Maybe it's an exaggeration, but you get the point. We're all products of our upbringing and we are all shaped by it.
What I'm trying to say is that most people around here are turned on by incest (or so I assume, considering incest is a big part of the majority of games shared on f95), so an incestuous main character wouldn't be unpopular. I dare say that incest by itself would be a big selling point even for an otherwise mediocre game (there are many examples of crappy games that survive on incest alone). So yes, an incestuous protagonist would be a draw for your game as long as you can get into the incest mindset yourself while creating the game. The generic "you pump mom full of sperm and its gud" won't cut it. People that have a fetish are mentally invested in it and it takes putting yourself in their shoes to catch their interest and patronage. This means elaborate writing, solid and likeable characters and most of all a plot that makes sense and also fulfills all their fantasies. If you can do this you'll always have patrons willing to support it.
Just my 2 cents.