Can a protagonist that engages in incestuous acts ever be truly likeable?

[Ataios]

The "standard" incest protagonist, i.e. one who aquires a mind control power and uses it to enslave and rape his mother will never be likeable by most people's standards. However, there may be situations, where characters who engage in incest can be - sort of - likeable:

- The survival of the species depends on them: Possible in post-apocalyptic games. Your family had a gene that saved them from a epidemic that wiped out the human species. All remaining humans are related.

- They don't know they are related. In modern times most likely for but not limited to siblings separated at a very young age. Oedipus also didn't knew he was fucking his mother all the time.

- They come from a culture, where incest is accepted, e.g. sibling marriage in ancient Egypt. In a fantasy or sci-fi setting, there could also exist a culture where parents are expected to teach their offspring in the art of love making.

- "Revenge": Not exactly likeable, but at least partly understandable, e.g. a mother who spanked her daughter many years ago getting her pay-back at the BDSM studio.

- Hostile world: In a setting, where every else is hostile, family members get closer than usual. This could be a couple of siblings who grew up on the street, or a prostitute and her son, who is the only well-meaning man in her life. Not an acceptable excuse for incest to most people, but a narrative figure, that makes the characters involved more sympathetic.

 

[The Random Technophile]

It can work. But it's because creators focus on the fact that a relationship is incest rather than what that relationship entails, which leads to under-developed characters because the mentality is that's it's all about the H-Scenes. They essentially become characters in a porno, in which most characters are unlikeable because no effort was put into them and the "plot" is just a lead-in to sex. This happens rather than the focus being a normal guy who happens to have feelings for the family member which develop into incest.

TL;DR it's because the creators are just making a porno and don't care about characters, but a good incest protag is possible if the focus is on him and his relationships rather than the sex.

 

[ANounIMuse]

If you want examples of a decent incestuous protagonist you would have be better of looking towards japanese visual novels than western ones. Though some may be over the top when it comes to fetishes they typically have more relatable characters, because they spend the time to give them a story. This usually means going for hours without sex, but in the end you are also more invested in the story when sexy time comes.
Despite all the people having issues with incest, genetically it isn't as bad as the media would have you believe. There is simply a higher chance of health issues cropping up because you carry a similar genetic makeup, which can also happen with any stranger who has the same genetic triggers. Which means that if your family has no history of genetic health issues, both you and your partner are in healthy physical conditions, and proper health practices are carried out between you and your children, then one or two generations would show little genetic decline from incest. Continual incest is not a good idea though, as it limits the gene pool which leaves you at risk for diseases, case in point would be the potato famine of Ireland, as they massively produced only one breed of potatoes which became diseased and wiped out the majority of the crops. If you have further questions regarding the validity of incest, look to the breeding of animals such as dogs and horses where incestuous breeding has been in practice for thousands of years. As long as proper care is taken to isolate genetic disease is taken, then incest is a valid practice.
The real issue is the fact that mediaand common morals have taught us that incest is bad, without properly saying why. Sure it has a chance to cause problems in children, but so can smoking, drinking, a bad diet, and even an improper hormone balance in the mother. You can also have unhealthy children with someone you're not related to. It depends on the genetic triggers that each person has, an incestuous couple simply makes these triggers more common which is why every couple if they want to have a baby, should go and get tested for having any genetic triggers that could cause disease in their child, and ask their doctor what chance the triggers they have could cause any diseases or mutations in their children.

 

[9thCrux]

What makes a character likeable or not likeable is his/her personality and/or reasons, or motivations why he/she gets into an incestuous relationship.

Sounds more like you're trying to say that the simple act by itself turns anyone into a non-likeable character.

A simple example would be the protagonist in DMD, they get closer after they together have built a relationship based on respect, trust, and some level of commitment; Her father is a likeable character (if you follow the daughter route only).

A non-likeable character would be any that just try to take advantage, forces, or uses his/her family member. Someone who just see them as toys he/she can use and discard whenever he/she fells like it; the kind of character some frustrated and angry with world individual would like, someone who take revenge for them. -at least in a fantasy world-

A likeable character is someone who cares, values, and respect his/her significant others. Not some horny dog who jumps at any hole or pole he/she can get.

 

[danteworks]

I think the character can remain likeable if two consenting adults like each other and just decide to go ahead.

 

[Segnbora]

Aside from the blank-slate nature of most MCs, the fact is that the reward system for an adult game is inherently imbalanced towards the MC being unlikable. We want the H-scenes, which means we have to corrupt the NPCs, which means we make choices that grease the H-skids. If you give me a game with affection and depravity stats and I see that affection increases don't get me H-scenes, but depravity increases do, you can't possibly believe that I'm going to choose affection over depravity. This is true whether the reward system is stat-based or event-based (e.g. shower spying, nighttime molestation, etc., which seem to be de rigueur in incest games).

A game in which the incest-craving MC (whether s/he's the narrative driver of the incest or not) is truly interested in being a good person isn't going to look like most incest games. That might be a positive, overall (I can't say what it would bring in terms of support), but it also requires some significant creativity w/r/t the reward system. Acting like a good and loving brother, son, or whatever doesn't (realistically) get you laid with people who you're not supposed to be having sex with unless there's something else going on to drive the plot towards sex. So there's a big hurdle right there.

Ultimately, I'd return to what others have said: if you want your MC to be likeable, give them an actual personality and try to limit the rape-disguised-as-corruption.

 

[Ataios]

Genetic disorders are the rational reason, why incest is considered immoral. From a purely rational point of view, consensual incest that between adults, that doesn't produce offspring, wouldn't be immoral. Likability however is not purely rational. A mother pleasuring her son or daughter orally doesn't harm anyone, still most people wouldn't like a character who frequently receives blowjobs from mom, no matter how heroic he might be otherwise.

 

[Bakkalon]

Yes,it is possible.

 

[Volta]

It really depends on how it's done, of course they can be likeable they just normally aren't, the assumption that the women involved has to be somehow duped, mind controlled or blackmailed into incest is not going to lead to a likeable MC, though in the case of a game like Milf City where the women are mostly as interested as the MC the character remains neutral, he's just a vehicle for the scenes rather than having a likeable character of his own.

Basically i will settle for a non-asshole MC, though an interesting or likeable MC in an incest game would be nice.

 

[Agent HK47]

I can't really think of any really likeable protag from an incest game, however, I think it could be done. The thing is, most of the time, the devs has to give the MC creepy tendensies, in order to have them spy on their family and seduce them, so the players can get to "the good stuff".
On the other hand, I think that Dana from Dreaming of Dana is a pretty good indication of how it could be done. Don't get me wrong, I don't really like the MC from Dreaming of Dana, but in regards to his sister, he is not as pushy as most other horndogs (maybe because he is banging 3-4 other chicks at the same time) and it is often Dana who is the aggressor and the one who is scheming how to live with her brother, which makes the MC much less of a creep.

Now, like I said, the MC from DOD (think his name is Chris?) is a perv, but his sister is just as big a perv as he is, and it is clear that she wants their relationship to work, just as much as he does.
It is kinda the same with Linda from Milfy City, who is one to act out on her teenage son, trying to seduce him. She is obviously conflicted, but her sexual experience makes it easy for her to make advances on her son. I can't really blame the MC for lusting for her, because she instigated it. Yet, again, he is a creep with his sisters and everyone else, so not likeable still.

I think these 2 examples shows one thing though, and that is that yes, a likeable, incest protag could be a possibility, but only if it made clear that he is not the one forcing everything along, his partner must show that she wants it herself, and that they are both equally at fault for falling for each other, both of them unable to refrain from acting out on their feelings for each other.

Would it be easy? No.

The biggest problem is likely that the MC can't really fuck around with anyone else in the game, without instantly seeming like a prick. This is probably the reason why I dislike the father from DMD so much, because he is screwing around with chicks left and right, which makes it hard to see him as a good person.
This problem would mean that the game would be solely relying on the 2 main characters, which requires a powerful story. A thing which, sadly, is not very common these days.

So yeah, I think an incest game protagonist can be likeable. That being said, I think it will be a while before we see it done.

 

[Segnbora]

Well, Dana is ridiculously likable. The "problem" with DoD wasn't that Chris (or whatever his name was) wasn't, but that Dana wasn't the MC. I know female protag games are an issue for some, but making the MC Dana's brother and allowing him to plow four different fields without consequence made him essentially unlikable, despite how much he was getting laid and rewarding the player. The same game could exist with Dana as the MC, and the former MC could fuck around all he wanted, but he could be likable if he did what Dana wanted...whatever that was.

As for the father in DmD, in a real-world setting he's reprehensible, but considering how lobotomized women (especially young women) in his fictional world are, I suppose we have to give him credit for rescuing them from worse fates.

Wait, no, forget that. He's awful.

 

[Agent HK47]

Well, Dana is ridiculously likable. The "problem" with DoD wasn't that Chris (or whatever his name was) wasn't, but that Dana wasn't the MC. I know female protag games are an issue for some, but making the MC Dana's brother and allowing him to plow four different fields without consequence made him essentially unlikable, despite how much he was getting laid and rewarding the player. The same game could exist with Dana as the MC, and the former MC could fuck around all he wanted, but he could be likable if he did what Dana wanted...whatever that was.

As for the father in DmD, in a real-world setting he's reprehensible, but considering how lobotomized women (especially young women) in his fictional world are, I suppose we have to give him credit for rescuing them from worse fates.

Wait, no, forget that. He's awful.

Pretty much couldn't agree more. Have my like, my good sir!

 

[Segnbora]

Well, thank you!

I guess the point I failed to actually type is that Dana is an extremely likable MC in an incest game. She wasn't the actual MC, though she was pretty clearly the drver of the entire plot, but in a game where she was, she would be. Write that game with Dana as the MC, and you have a likable incest MC. QED. RTFM. HTH, HAND.

 

[desmosome]

I, for one, prefer an evil MC in incest games. Lovey dovey incest never really did it for me. I guess I'm a sick fuck.

To answer your question though, sure its possible. Ethically speaking, there isn't anything morally wrong about consensual incest without procreation or imbalanced power dynamics.

 

[fauxplayer]

This thread has some

This is the conundrum I have. I'm currently in the early stages of a game that ideally will include incest, but I worry that it may be at the expense of a sympathetic, relatable and all in all likeable main character. I ask this because from my experience playing countless incest related games, I don't think I've ever truly rooted for a character after he's say fucked his mother or sister. Do any of you experience this? Or is it something you're truly able to look past?

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has some helpful discussion I think. Here are

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on the question.

 

[obibobi]

2 words, Jamie Lannister.

A character who fucks his own sister, has 3 kids by her, cripples an innocent child and he is still one of the most liked characters in one of the most popular shows on TV and many would argue that he is a good guy.

So there's some prime proof they can be popular in the mainstream let alone in the niche sex game market.

Then there's Rance from the Rance games, a serial rapist who's quite popular.

Given that it's not real, acts that are awful in real life can have their ramifications downplayed and the character can have enough charisma for us to overlook it. I mean look how popular the Joker is and he's a monster.

 

[Nizzz]

If the MC has a relationship with a relative based upon real feelings, sure why not, like any other well written character.

The problem is that most incest stories are dull, with harrasament, raping, extremely horny characters with no brain, several relatives harem, etc.


Any story about incest that tries to achieve something realistic should have a part of romance and another of drama

 

[Avaron1974]

A simple example would be the protagonist in DMD, they get closer after they together have built a relationship based on respect, trust, and some level of commitment; Her father is a likeable character (if you follow the daughter route only).

A grown man grooming his naive, clueless virgin daughter into a sexual relationship .... yeah, what a nice guy.

Totally not a creep at all.

I mean, what's statutory rape between family members, eh?

 

[Duke Greene]

The father in DMD is a giant creep to begin with but it's made worse by the fact that his daughter has the emotional maturity of a small child. She's so naive and sheltered that her giving consent to him effectively shows she's unfit to give it in the first place. And you have that worthless dad with no real friends or hobbies, who is clearly intended to be sympathetic by the writer, slowly manipulates her in relying more and more on him... yeah, creepy as fuck. Frankly, if the daughter's 3d model matched her behavior instead of looking like a midget porn star most people would ring the pedo alarm instead of praising the game to high heavens.

I'm fine with playing villains or pretty awful characters mind you, as long as they're interesting. But "dad" is a bland self-insert and the game insists he's an amazing person and a "gentleman".

Sibling incest can be rationalized but parental incest will never be not creepy imo, unless the participants don't know about their blood relation. An example on top of my head would be the manga Kanon by Chiho Saito, where the protagonist falls in love with her handsome and genius violin teacher only for both to discover down the line that he's her father (it's not a spoiler, that's pretty much the manga's premise). And even then the dude is one hell of a womanizer and sometimes you really want to punch his face.

 

[Agent HK47]

I, for one, prefer an evil MC in incest games. Lovey dovey incest never really did it for me. I guess I'm a sick fuck.

To answer your question though, sure its possible. Ethically speaking, there isn't anything morally wrong about consensual incest without procreation or imbalanced power dynamics.

I am with you on that one. I prefer to be an asshole in most games I play, just because I am fairly well-mannered and polite to people in real life, so it feels nice to be able to put myself in different shoes for a moment.

That being said though, this thread was not about whether or not we prefer to be god or bad, but about whether a main character of an incest game could be someone likeable. Still, I get where you are coming from.

2 words, Jamie Lannister.

A character who fucks his own sister, has 3 kids by her, cripples an innocent child and he is still one of the most liked characters in one of the most popular shows on TV and many would argue that he is a good guy.

So there's some prime proof they can be popular in the mainstream let alone in the niche sex game market.

Then there's Rance from the Rance games, a serial rapist who's quite popular.

Given that it's not real, acts that are awful in real life can have their ramifications downplayed and the character can have enough charisma for us to overlook it. I mean look how popular the Joker is and he's a monster.

Well, yes, Jamie has become a well loved character by many, simply by the fact that he has evolved greatly over the series. Still, being likeable and being a good person is not the same thing. My favourite character in GOT is the Hound, and I don't think of him as a nice person. I just enjoy his brutal honesty and personality, and the protective role he has with Arya.

Anyway, back to Jamie. Yes, I think most people like him (I enjoy his scenes with Brienne), but I think many people would agree that crippling a child is something that can never really be forgiven. In this case, I can look past his relationship with Cersei, but I can't really forgive him for trying to murder a child. I guess that makes it more realistic though, as it just proves that nobody is ever really a completely good person (even the great Eddard Stark lied about beating Arthur Dayne, until his death) but that doesn't mean that people can't still like them anyway.