VN Ren'Py Chronicles of Kartoba [Prologue P2 Fix] [SinisterSlick Games]

[Lurcher1]

Yeah... I came to this thread to see if there was any way to avoid this scene. I might have ogled Jess a bit, but I didn't entertain the idea of Monica doing something wrong, let alone cheating on her. Then the MC's thoughts of "I can always just blame it on the drug..."
Sorry, that's just not the kind of MC I want to be playing as. This would be entirely fine in a kinetic story, but when choices exist, they need to be offered. And at the very least, try not to make the MC sound like a douche unless the player makes him act that way.

We're not given an out either. Clair's eyes aren't lighting up; she isn't influencing him. He's cheating on his girlfriend of a few years only because he feels a bit horny and frustrated.

Individually, I'd agree. But there was a lot going on in a short time. His youth, being newly fledged by minutes, inexperience to dealing with others of his kind, etc, all added up to him being manipulated with ease. Consider:

1 - The MC drank that elixir which is giving him splitting headaches, made his nose bleed and probably making him feel disjointed as he 'awakens'. It seems to be having some sort of effect his senses and thoughts.
2 - The MC thinks he's hallucinating (People's eyes are glowing, his own are glowing and Andrew as well as John seemed to act strange) leading him feeling more disjointed.
3 - John unwittingly played into the MC being manipulated, taunting him about seeing Monica with a strange man. Follow this with her refusing or unable to answer her phone and Alexia looking unsure while trying to reassure him.
4 - Finally, with Clair, she did influence him in the beginning, but I also suspect House Idalon have some sort of telepathy or implanted suggestion ability. There were several times during the sex scene where I felt she seemed to answer the MC's thoughts (Stop thinking why this is a bad idea...) or the MC was having intrusive thoughts that I felt were hinted weren't his.

Add all that up, and he was in put into a position where he was manipulated by a master manipulator and telepath (Clair maybe the House Idalon Matriarch).

SinisterSlick have mentioned that they intend to make a the player have a lot more choices after the prologue - Maybe it will involve how players handle Clair (Revenge for manipulations or some sort of atonement/forgiveness)?

 

[Quetzzz]

Individually, I'd agree. But there was a lot going on in a short time. His youth, being newly fledged by minutes, inexperience to dealing with others of his kind, etc, all added up to him being manipulated with ease. Consider:

I think this requires a very generous reading of events. You're not wrong, but you're right in a hindsight is 20/20 kind of way.

1 - The MC drank that elixir which is giving him splitting headaches, made his nose bleed and probably making him feel disjointed as he 'awakens'. It seems to be having some sort of effect his senses and thoughts.

But his thoughts and what we are seeing are lining up completely. I can grant that he was confused, but the leap to hallucinating and thinking, "I'll just blame it on the wine", that's a extra step, and a big one.
Also, right before and during the lewd, Clair's eyes don't change, only after he bit her. There was no indication at the party that the MC was losing control over himself. He even had a calm and collected conversation with Clair about the accident. So, I think the whole "not himself" is a tough sell.
I think adding a choice could've solved this. Either the MC consciously accepts Clair's advances, or he rejects her and is given a spiked glass of water. Both lead to the same outcome, but at least the MC (and player) can hold their head high.

2 - The MC thinks he's hallucinating (People's eyes are glowing, his own are glowing and Andrew as well as John seemed to act strange) leading him feeling more disjointed.

The MC did notice Andrew acting weird, and I suspect that the MC compelled both Andrew and John, but he didn't think much of it. Instead, he's ushered away and distracted.

3 - John unwittingly played into the MC being manipulated, taunting him about seeing Monica with a strange man. Follow this with her refusing or unable to answer her phone and Alexia looking unsure while trying to reassure him.

But if I decide not to leave a message for Monica, doesn't that imply a certain trust? This MC has finished college and has been with Monica for years, and while intrusive thoughts are real, their shared history should mean something as well. Fucking a stranger because he's insecure or worried about Monica's whereabouts feels like a stretch. Things would be different if we were shown that the MC believed John or we got a mention that Monica had cheated on him before. Actual reasons that would make him doubt her loyalty and that would allow him to convince himself he earned a free pass.
The whole "she made me drink the wine, so she's responsible for my actions"... yuck.

4 - Finally, with Clair, she did influence him in the beginning, but I also suspect House Idalon have some sort of telepathy or implanted suggestion ability. There were several times during the sex scene where I felt she seemed to answer the MC's thoughts (Stop thinking why this is a bad idea...) or the MC was having intrusive thoughts that I felt were hinted weren't his.

Yeah, she did influence him to stay the night. But everything that happened in the room was agreed to by the MC, except for the last part of the ritual. The writer has to know that this whole situation is polarizing. And, ultimately, everything the MC says or does counts as characterization. IF the MC was acting out of character, then the writer needed to make sure to convey this to the audience, and I don't think this was done adequately.
The few thoughts of it being a drug-induced dream feel too far-fetched. I didn't get the sense that he was being manipulated there as much as that he was lying to himself to avoid accountability. Yet, the first thing he does when he sees Monica is try and apologize for cheating on her, indicating he was fully aware of what he was doing. If he had been drugged and really lost his grip on reality, if he truly believed he slept with Clair because of the wine... Then he would say things like "I don't know what came over me last night;" instead of how he takes responsibility toward Marcus.

Add all that up, and he was in put into a position where he was manipulated by a master manipulator and telepath (Clair maybe the House Idalon Matriarch).

There's no doubt he was manipulated, but what I don't think gets adequately explained or telegraphed is why it worked. All the writer managed to do is make me dislike the MC, Clair, and Monica for their parts in this. They're all guilty, and I suspect this shared guilt will be the basis of their future cooperation. (I haven't finished the prologue yet)... Monica alludes to as much with "But I'm stuck with this just as much as you are."


I'm not going to say this is a bad game, or even that the writing is bad. Though, I have some concerns about the writing, most issues I have are with Part 2 of the prologue. The situation with Clair needed to be handled better. Either make it entirely clear that the MC has no agency, or hand agency over to the player and pull it away when they make the "wrong" choice. In my view of this event, the MC was a willing participant in his rape. Contradictory, maybe, but it's abundantly clear that there was no informed consent, because he had no idea what Clair had in store for him.

 

[Quetzzz]

Having now played the full release... I'm not sure what I think, but I feel frustrated and detached. In the end, I don't really care about anything that happened, because the MC doesn't either.

This monologue drove it home for me:

    Hadrian: "She was raised to believe she would be the one. Not just your friend. Not just your equal."
    Hadrian: "Your first bond."
    Hadrian: "I expected resistance."
    Hadrian: "A confrontation. A demand to nullify the union."
    Hadrian: "It wouldn't have worked, of course, but I expected the effort."
    Hadrian: "But that's the thing about bonds."
    Hadrian: "They're absolute."
    Hadrian: "And sadly for my Granddaughter... irreversible."
    Hadrian: "Once you have one you can never have another."
    Narrator "He's calm. Empathetic, even. But underneath it, there's something else, quiet relief. The political kind."
    Hadrian: "A shame, really."
    Hadrian: "I had hoped she'd carry herself with more... poise."
    Hadrian: "But emotions, I suppose, don't always bend to pedigree."
    Hadrian: "Clair handled things... cleanly."
    Hadrian: "Efficient. Quiet."
    Hadrian: "No theatrics."

Hadrian, Monica's grandfather, speaks flippantly about Monica's crushed hopes and dreams as if they are but a flight of a child's fancy. The MC's reaction? A calm resignation and acceptance of the circumstances. He isn't disgusted with Hadrian's manipulations that got him and Monica where they are now. He's not angry at how Monica's grandfather just dismisses her crushed dreams. Or that his rape by Clair is called "clean, efficient, and quiet."
Though, let me nuance this rape accusation. This really depends on your own interpretation of how the MC ended up under her. Either he was drugged by the 'wine' Monica gave him, or he's using the drink as an excuse to allow himself to cheat. But, regardless of his motivations, Clair doesn't tell him that she'll become pregnant, even says she's on the pill, and doesn't inform him about the lifelong bond that's part of the contract... Or, for that matter, that having the MC's child and being his one and only lifelong bond is part of a contract.

I will say that I enjoyed the game up until Clair came into the room. Afterward, when the MC wakes up in a strange environment, the narrative just goes off the rails with characters who speak past each other, talk in circles, or just infodump. Any anger or indignation the MC might feel lasts half a sentence before he rolls over and accepts everything.

There's also a certain laziness to dialogue. The MC decides not to ask questions because he wants to seem agreeable, but then later just internalizes everything he was told anyway, without applying any real critical thinking.
This laziness not only applies to his conversations with Hadrian but also Monica. She tells us how important it was for her to be bonded to the MC, that she dreamed about it all her life. But we're never told what a bond is or does, how it impacts anything... Just that it exists and that Clair now has it. Instead, we're told about different houses and the meaning of eye colors, but the world-building that directly impacts these characters is glossed over.

Oh, and those eye colors we learn about and how they pertain to a vampire's rank? Apparently this doesn't apply to the MC. Why? We're just told that this is a genetic trait... (like every eye color.) And that one-and-only lifelong bond? Yeah, the MC can have several of those.
This might be fitting for a chosen-one trope, but the effects of the MC's exceptional genetics undercut the story's stakes. Why are bonds important when the MC can have several and Monica can get her wish?

I can't imagine why the writer went this route with the prologue, and I don't think he can explain Hadrian's motivations. Why did the MC have to drink the elixir that night? Why did he have to impregnate Clair that night? Why not invite him to his office and give him a choice? Drink the elixir, fuck Clair... or die. Because that's what it came down to. Why would someone as calculated and ruthless as Hadrian even think of leaving a single detail up to chance when he could directly control the outcome instead?

That contract? Just call it blackmail. Clair? I hope she takes a tumble off a flight of stairs. And for all I care, the MC and Hadrian end up in a murder-suicide situation. The MC is already dead inside anyway; might as well finish the job.

Some questions:

• With how long-lived vampires are (MC could live for 2500 years), why is Hadrian in such a hurry to introduce him to the community during his anniversary ball? How does this weigh up to the need for secrecy surrounding the MC's existence? Sure, he'll have an assumed identity, but the more vampires that interact with the MC, the higher the chance of discovery.
• When did he remove the biolenses after leaving Hadrian's office? He isn't wearing them in his room with Monica. Did he take out the lens he tested? Since he isn't carrying the box, I assumed he was wearing both.
• How long has Monica been a vampire, and why did she awaken sooner than the MC was expected to? It sounds like she's been a vampire for at least as long as they've been in a romantic relationship.
• What's the real deal with eye colors? If blue is only second to purple, but the MC's gold is equal to purple... Then blue can't be only second to purple...
• Why did Monica get a golden hue in her eyes? Is this an effect of the bond? If so, it's probably best if the MC never bonds again, or he'll increase his chance of discovery.
• No matter how you motivate the MC's actions with Clair, the lack of informed consent is a severe breach of trust and could be seen as rape. Does this impact how the MC views intimacy or relationships at all? Did this create any trust issues or a paranoia about people wanting to use him?

Suggestions:

• Please pick a clear lane during Clair's scene. Either unequivocally show that the MC is drugged and not controlling his actions or that he willfully cheated on Monica. The audience needs to know what kind of person the MC is.
• If the MC is drugged, he needs to behave erratically during the party. Feeling hot and getting headaches doesn't cut it. It doesn't explain a certain lack of inhibition or susceptibility.
• Related to the previous point, let the MC adopt a single attitude toward the events with Clair. He can't take responsibility for what happened and also blame it on the wine.
• If the MC isn't the equivalent of black-out drunk, give players the choice to reject Clair, but follow this rejection with Clair drugging the MC anyway, forcing the outcome. Instead of the entire scene, this could play out as a few flashes of the key actions (climax, biting, and getting bitten)
• The MC lives on the fence. He's allowed to be opinionated, to get angry or afraid. He doesn't need to be in control of his emotions 100% of the time. Let him act out, more so when it involves his loved ones. If the MC can't stand up for Monica, whom he supposedly loves and has wronged, then what can he stand up for? If he isn't seen caring about anything or anyone, why would the audience be sympathetic or empathic with him?
• Don't avoid using tropes for the sake of it. There's a reason why in supernatural stories, normies are shown the power instead of just being told about it. The ease with which the MC accepts everything he's told beggars all belief. A simple show of power would bypass this entirely. He has to believe his eyes.
• More of a writing tip: In every scene and every dialogue, first consider what every character wants to get out of it. In the room with the MC and Marcus, the MC wants answers, and Marcus wants him to go to Hadrian. Fine. But wouldn't the MC want to go home? When we can grab the knife and try to stab Marcus in the neck, what did the MC have in mind? If he succeeded, I assume he would have wanted to leave... But then why didn't leaving come up earlier?
  In Hadrian's office, the MC wants answers, and Hadrian wants to answer questions... So why does it take them so long to actually sit down and talk?
• Please find a proofreader. I really don't mean this as a slight to the writer. A proofreader can help you with an external point of view, an honest opinion of how the writing conveys motivations and characterization. This is invaluable feedback when you're trying to tell a story as complex as this one. You have multiple competing interests on multiple levels (interpersonal, political, racial, ...) and a setting that's completely foreign, set on a different planet and in an unknown culture. There's a very fine line between worldbuilding and infodumping.

 

[Korandor]

So, I have to admit I've only just started playing Kartoba. I wanted to take a closer look at the story in this thread first. From what I'm reading here, all I want to do is kill Claire and Hadrian (they seem to be the main manipulators), and I'm sure that won't be possible.
This leads me to believe that the decisions must be fake and therefore should really be written better as a Kinetic Novel, not a visual novel.
I have to honestly admit that just what I've learned about the story from this thread makes my blood boil at some of these characters.
I don't know if I should put myself through this. I'll pause the game for now and stay in the thread a bit longer to see where the story is headed.

 

[Quetzzz]

So, I have to admit I've only just started playing Kartoba. I wanted to take a closer look at the story in this thread first. From what I'm reading here, all I want to do is kill Claire and Hadrian (they seem to be the main manipulators), and I'm sure that won't be possible.
This leads me to believe that the decisions must be fake and therefore should really be written better as a Kinetic Novel, not a visual novel.
I have to honestly admit that just what I've learned about the story from this thread makes my blood boil at some of these characters.
I don't know if I should put myself through this. I'll pause the game for now and stay in the thread a bit longer to see where the story is headed.

I'd suggest at least playing up to the point where Clair and the MC get intimate so you can make up your own mind about what's happening.
Maybe you're less sensitive to certain wording and framing than I am and more sensitive to others, which would give you a very different experience.

 

[Lurcher1]

Getting closer:


Chapter 1 Update 5


Hello again, hope you’re all doing well.


Original Scope Progress

• Script: ✅ 100%
  
  
• Static Renders: 90% (Game-ready)
  
  
• Animation Renders: 100% (Post ready)
  
  
• Code: 30%
  
  
• Audio: 0%
  

Additional Scenes Progress

• Script: ✅ 100%
  
  
• Static Renders: 70% (Game-ready)
  
  
• Animation Renders: 100%(Game-ready)
  
  
• Code: 20%
  
  
• Audio: 0%
  

What We’ve Been Working On

LucidVice

Another scene has been completed and is now fully game-ready. I’m currently about 45–50% through rendering the second-to-last scene, which should be wrapped up and ready by early to mid next week. There’s a lot of interaction between character poses in this one, so I’ve been taking extra care to avoid things like finger clipping and other small visual issues.

The final scene thankfully doesn’t involve much physical contact between characters, so that one should move a lot faster. Since the animation is already complete, I expect to be able to complete it in just a few days.


NoctisVex

As Lucidvice said in the last update, I have been working on the animations for this chapter, here is a summary of progress since the last update;

• Animation renders: All 5 animations are complete and ready for post-production! Each one has at least 2 different angles, with the exception of 1, which has a single angle. While I’m not the primary animator, I took on this task for this update to gain more experience in the process, and I’m really happy with the results!
  
  
• Static shots: Now that the animations are done, I’ve shifted focus to completing the surrounding static shots to tie everything together in the scene.
  
  
• Code & script updates: I’ve also jumped back into the code, integrating the finished scenes, updating the script and implementing the choices.

We’ve made great progress over the past two weeks, putting us in a strong position as we head into a busy Christmas period. The next scheduled update falls on Christmas Day, so we’ll likely release the final progress update a couple of days early, followed by the main game update in the first week of January.


Thank you again for all your support, wishing you a wonderful Christmas and holiday season!

— Sinister Slick Dev Team