Ren'Py Chronoromancer [v0.7] [Chronoromancer Studio]

[Chronoromancer]

I love that you're both wrestling with this - it means the characters feel real enough to care about! But I want to offer some food for thought: The medieval fantasy world isn't meant to be viewed through a modern lens. In our fictional era, this isn't a back-alley operation existing in the shadows of legality. The King himself sanctions this establishment, collects taxes from it, and actively wants it to succeed. Think of Inara from Firefly - a Registered Companion who is legally protected, professionally trained, and socially respected. That's closer to what we're building here than the modern stigma around sex work. Sophie isn't being pushed into something shameful - she's being offered a position in a royally-sanctioned establishment with legal protections, regular income, housing, and genuine social standing. The "choice" question changes considerably when the work itself carries dignity and respect in that society's value system.

And here's where it gets really interesting from a narrative perspective: Sashina - the "wise mentor," the mystical guide who seems so benevolent, is actually the puppet master behind this entire situation. She manipulated the King's dreams to make him grant the brothel. She manipulates the player into running it. She manipulates certain... let's say "unconventional" individuals into joining the workforce. And she does all of this not from wisdom or greed, but from terror. She has seen VOID in her visions. She has witnessed the absolute nothingness of universal erasure. That cosmic horror drives every manipulation she makes. So the real moral dilemma isn't about any individual worker's agency - it's this: If VOID's plan is to erase all existence by destroying authentic human connection, does that justify building relationships through unconventional means?

Or...

 

[Chronoromancer]

First off I am extremely flattered you think it worthwhile to listen enough to even ask me to suggest a character. That said I wouldn't want to set a bad precedent for you going forward so I would suggest making another patreon poll to find which character is most popular. Or in your opinion which makes the most sense for the narrative going forward. Thank you for even bothering to listen and interact in general, this is something most devs either don't bother doing or turn any form of suggestion or critique into a flame war as they entrench themselves deeper. Your attitude is rare and a huge breath of fresh air so try not to burn out and turn into what most become after dealing with people for so long. I know I probably couldn't be that open minded so I commend you on being great PR on your own.

Now I would like to apologize as I feel I have done a rather poor job in expressing myself clearly. When I talk about character development, story, and interaction I don't mean you should drop everything else or not focus on the core you already are. The core mechanics and general development are the most important by far. What I wanted to convey is more a trade off in time spent on new characters instead spent on developing the large number of existing characters, at least for a few updates till the existing ones are a bit more rounded out. Which also would make new characters more exciting. Rather than an actual critique as most of what you mentioned you had planned aligned with what I already felt was the intended case, it was meant more of a suggestion for how to make things most appealing in the interim while you work on everything. When looking at changelogs there are a lot of "new characters" in updates, while existing characters could do with a lot of love from their dev to kind of solidify the foundation moving forward.

A more visual way to think about it would be imagining a kids coloring book, you the dev can see the full picture, and know you just have to fill in what is already in your head once you have the time. For us the players we see only a small part of the whole just a few lines and have to imagine what is going to fill the rest, could be waifu, could be cthulhu, we don't know yet. When you think about it many characters have about as much as a paragraph of text and a few images, Summer being a good example. While others that are better developed like Sashina still don't have that much more, maybe a few paragraphs and some extra images. I figured the lowest effort from a development standpoint would be to add more depth to interactions with fewer of them which is why I suggested that method. I don't expect a full VN level of development as my comparison to Saber may have implied as that would be consigning you to a lifetime of development with all the characters you would need to write. So what I meant was more instead of adding new unfinished pages to the character coloring book just filling in those blanks gradually, not even saying you have to dedicate a full update to complete a character, can be single events here and there that builds on what is already present. Essentially giving us progress with existing characters over new characters alongside the planned updates. Mainly as I worried about over time losing interest because of too many characters and too little attachment to each one.

Kind of similar to how the time limit may be more of a constraint now without full game mechanics at play than it would be in the final version. For me a good example would be modern era downtown there was some girl in a black dress with black hair that would show up randomly, no idea how to interact with her despite wanting to. So I had to make a choice to prioritize doing other things to work against the time limit rather than goofing around trying to figure out what is going on with that character.

Back to brothel I completely agree. I was mostly mentioning things now as setting them up is easier early in development rather than after you have systems in place that you may want to go back and change or adjust in the future. Was mostly just hoping to offer a some opinions in the hopes of offering the perspective of someone on the other side playing the game blindly. Kind of how you mentioning the perspective on sex and sex work being more open is what made me think of how to split and integrate that, disregarding whether that idea is good or bad to other people.



While I do agree with most of what you said in all honestly especially how rather annoyed or even outright mad I was at all the people who supposedly cared about Sophie my issue was more how there was no real choice. Was Sophie in a better situation thanks to you? Sure, but conversely that also means she has no real choice in the matter, and since you don't either unless you choose hotel it feels almost like enslaving a naive and innocent little girl. It felt too predatory to me for the brothel side while it makes perfect sense for the hotel side. It is sorta the same with Jade, or any other future girl. I am fine with slavery and such being explored, but I just wanted an option or method to choose an alternate way of treating them based on how I feel about individual characters. As far as the scribe you can argue both ways but in the end it was still her choice at least to the degree she didn't feel it necessary to run away.

Prior to your message, I was inviting you to choose a character and I'd update her fully - you suggested bringing it to a poll on Discord, which I was actually planning to do anyway! Last update the poll winner got a substantial update, and the runner-up got some love too. That said, a lot of time last update went to Christmas holidays (my wife and I took about 5 full days off), plus one of our larger supporters requested a game mechanics update that turned out to be quite difficult - we're still finishing debugging it now.

The point is: I have time for more than one character. So yes, we'll do a poll, but I also think you're right about the "coloring in" approach. I actually want to experiment with developing a character through meaningful plots and interactions like you suggested - not instead of a poll winner, but as well as. Because Vixen (my wife) and I are aiming for an eventual V1.0. Not to stop the game - we're in this for the long haul - but to have something we could package as a complete version for Steam or other platforms. The basic requirements for that are exactly what you're describing: all NPCs colored in, storyline complete, dungeon and brothel/hotel mechanics finished. It's still a lot to do! Even at 2 characters per update plus mechanics work, we're looking at half a year minimum to reach that point. But we're happy to do it!

You've mentioned Summer twice now... maybe her? I've been procrastinating on her because to really develop her properly, we need a full new set of images in a different outfit. But you're right, she needs to get done.

The black dress girl you mentioned is Portia! If you're on our Discord, check out the #npc-guides section - her strategy is all described there. She's a late-game girl though, requires quite a bit of money to pursue.

Thank you for the thoughtful feedback - I'll definitely think on what you've said about character development!

 

[DoofusWombat]

I love that you're both wrestling with this - it means the characters feel real enough to care about! But I want to offer some food for thought: The medieval fantasy world isn't meant to be viewed through a modern lens. In our fictional era, this isn't a back-alley operation existing in the shadows of legality. The King himself sanctions this establishment, collects taxes from it, and actively wants it to succeed. Think of Inara from Firefly - a Registered Companion who is legally protected, professionally trained, and socially respected. That's closer to what we're building here than the modern stigma around sex work. Sophie isn't being pushed into something shameful - she's being offered a position in a royally-sanctioned establishment with legal protections, regular income, housing, and genuine social standing. The "choice" question changes considerably when the work itself carries dignity and respect in that society's value system.

And here's where it gets really interesting from a narrative perspective: Sashina - the "wise mentor," the mystical guide who seems so benevolent, is actually the puppet master behind this entire situation. She manipulated the King's dreams to make him grant the brothel. She manipulates the player into running it. She manipulates certain... let's say "unconventional" individuals into joining the workforce. And she does all of this not from wisdom or greed, but from terror. She has seen VOID in her visions. She has witnessed the absolute nothingness of universal erasure. That cosmic horror drives every manipulation she makes. So the real moral dilemma isn't about any individual worker's agency - it's this: If VOID's plan is to erase all existence by destroying authentic human connection, does that justify building relationships through unconventional means?

Or...

I think the social aspect regarding sex work is the one area I disagree on, for three reasons.

First up is that it feels like the world is starting at the endpoint already. In other words the protagonist doesn't have to change the world into one more accepting when it already is. What could serve as a narrative device for the Voids influence turns into a merger between beginning and end. With nothing to strive for in changing of society there is less room for both the characters and story to grow.

Second is the issue with the king. Sure it is sanctioned by the crown and all, but that is the case in real life in places it is legal, and has pretty much always been the case of those running a legitimate business. All governing bodies want to keep an hand in every business they can for tax revenue among other various reasons based on business type. Even more when hotel is an option in its place there is very little differentiating the two options. I think it would be fine to build both society and the reputation of the brothel itself into one of respect, perhaps after enough training they can be higher ranked courtesans with actual skills. However treating various women essentially taken off the street with a high degree of respect socially also feels like starting at the end point, no work was needed to achieve that result.

Third as far as the modern lens, isn't the protagonist himself modern? I would expect him have at least some level of morality that reflects it. Now just to make my point of view on this clear I am absolutely fine with dark aspects and characters, if anything that is kind of where a lot of the sense of stigma pushes things from clientele to girls involved to the reaction of the protagonist. This is probably one of the issues I mind least after all this is a porn game and I 100% expect a fantasy setting to have different values from a modern one, I would be rather disappointed if they didn't as it is part of the appeal. Exploring a different through the story and characters is fun and reflecting that in the society is what makes a lot of things interesting. Another thing is a "modern" viewpoint is basically the same as it always has been, some people seeing it as a positive some against it. From the point of view of the protagonist I feel that some, even a small degree of resistance would give him a sort of fish out of water feel where he needs to adapt to changing times and changing morality with his opinions and responses reflecting the players choices. Essentially it all comes down to much of the same as the first two points room for the protagonist to grow and change.

Prior to your message, I was inviting you to choose a character and I'd update her fully - you suggested bringing it to a poll on Discord, which I was actually planning to do anyway! Last update the poll winner got a substantial update, and the runner-up got some love too. That said, a lot of time last update went to Christmas holidays (my wife and I took about 5 full days off), plus one of our larger supporters requested a game mechanics update that turned out to be quite difficult - we're still finishing debugging it now.

The point is: I have time for more than one character. So yes, we'll do a poll, but I also think you're right about the "coloring in" approach. I actually want to experiment with developing a character through meaningful plots and interactions like you suggested - not instead of a poll winner, but as well as. Because Vixen (my wife) and I are aiming for an eventual V1.0. Not to stop the game - we're in this for the long haul - but to have something we could package as a complete version for Steam or other platforms. The basic requirements for that are exactly what you're describing: all NPCs colored in, storyline complete, dungeon and brothel/hotel mechanics finished. It's still a lot to do! Even at 2 characters per update plus mechanics work, we're looking at half a year minimum to reach that point. But we're happy to do it!

You've mentioned Summer twice now... maybe her? I've been procrastinating on her because to really develop her properly, we need a full new set of images in a different outfit. But you're right, she needs to get done.

The black dress girl you mentioned is Portia! If you're on our Discord, check out the #npc-guides section - her strategy is all described there. She's a late-game girl though, requires quite a bit of money to pursue.

Thank you for the thoughtful feedback - I'll definitely think on what you've said about character development!

Yeah I can see there is a ton of work to do, and will be taking a very long time to finish everything. This is the main reason I mentioned fleshing out characters as I can see how much time and effort is going to be needed to reach that end point and having a smaller cast with higher degree of completion helps show everyone playing where you are going with all the other characters coming in the future. I truly wish you the best on this, and it is good you aren't thinking things will be done anytime soon as the sheer breadth of development that needs addressing will be immensely time consuming. Almost all elements could support a game on their own so putting them together is a daunting task.

As far as characters I mentioned Summer because I remembered her and felt she was a good example. Being one of the first characters you meet and then nothing I felt illustrated my point. It is true I like her enough to remember her name though as I am awful with names in general. But there are honestly many characters I like and want to see more of, Valkyra being a good example, along with the nun, even the angel and succubus, the list would probably end after mentioning most characters. However I do think given where the story is it may be best to focus on the medieval era at the moment as it feels the most fleshed out and in a lot of ways serves as the roots of the game. If I had to pick one I would probably say Sashina would be the best to develop more fully. This is because she is one of the main driving factors in the story and already is one of the most fleshed out characters. As she has a higher start than say Summer or Valkyra you can progress further along in development as you have more to build off of, while she has a greater role in the story so knowing more about her can help with story as well. Though saying that is presumptuous as I don't actually know what is planned or anything like that, I am just assuming based on what we know that she would probably give more perspective on the world and story because of her role so far.

As far as Discord, sigh I joined it but I am awful with keeping up there, I am usually too busy and forget about it then get yelled at for not responding. Anyway I do try to avoid guides until I reach a point where I cannot progress as I enjoy just playing games and figuring things out but thanks for the heads up there on Portia she stuck in my head as I liked her look but I was hesitant to waste a ton of days on figuring things out while letting the timer slowly tick down.

 

[Chronoromancer]

I think the social aspect regarding sex work is the one area I disagree on, for three reasons.

First up is that it feels like the world is starting at the endpoint already. In other words the protagonist doesn't have to change the world into one more accepting when it already is. What could serve as a narrative device for the Voids influence turns into a merger between beginning and end. With nothing to strive for in changing of society there is less room for both the characters and story to grow.

Second is the issue with the king. Sure it is sanctioned by the crown and all, but that is the case in real life in places it is legal, and has pretty much always been the case of those running a legitimate business. All governing bodies want to keep an hand in every business they can for tax revenue among other various reasons based on business type. Even more when hotel is an option in its place there is very little differentiating the two options. I think it would be fine to build both society and the reputation of the brothel itself into one of respect, perhaps after enough training they can be higher ranked courtesans with actual skills. However treating various women essentially taken off the street with a high degree of respect socially also feels like starting at the end point, no work was needed to achieve that result.

Third as far as the modern lens, isn't the protagonist himself modern? I would expect him have at least some level of morality that reflects it. Now just to make my point of view on this clear I am absolutely fine with dark aspects and characters, if anything that is kind of where a lot of the sense of stigma pushes things from clientele to girls involved to the reaction of the protagonist. This is probably one of the issues I mind least after all this is a porn game and I 100% expect a fantasy setting to have different values from a modern one, I would be rather disappointed if they didn't as it is part of the appeal. Exploring a different through the story and characters is fun and reflecting that in the society is what makes a lot of things interesting. Another thing is a "modern" viewpoint is basically the same as it always has been, some people seeing it as a positive some against it. From the point of view of the protagonist I feel that some, even a small degree of resistance would give him a sort of fish out of water feel where he needs to adapt to changing times and changing morality with his opinions and responses reflecting the players choices. Essentially it all comes down to much of the same as the first two points room for the protagonist to grow and change.




Yeah I can see there is a ton of work to do, and will be taking a very long time to finish everything. This is the main reason I mentioned fleshing out characters as I can see how much time and effort is going to be needed to reach that end point and having a smaller cast with higher degree of completion helps show everyone playing where you are going with all the other characters coming in the future. I truly wish you the best on this, and it is good you aren't thinking things will be done anytime soon as the sheer breadth of development that needs addressing will be immensely time consuming. Almost all elements could support a game on their own so putting them together is a daunting task.

As far as characters I mentioned Summer because I remembered her and felt she was a good example. Being one of the first characters you meet and then nothing I felt illustrated my point. It is true I like her enough to remember her name though as I am awful with names in general. But there are honestly many characters I like and want to see more of, Valkyra being a good example, along with the nun, even the angel and succubus, the list would probably end after mentioning most characters. However I do think given where the story is it may be best to focus on the medieval era at the moment as it feels the most fleshed out and in a lot of ways serves as the roots of the game. If I had to pick one I would probably say Sashina would be the best to develop more fully. This is because she is one of the main driving factors in the story and already is one of the most fleshed out characters. As she has a higher start than say Summer or Valkyra you can progress further along in development as you have more to build off of, while she has a greater role in the story so knowing more about her can help with story as well. Though saying that is presumptuous as I don't actually know what is planned or anything like that, I am just assuming based on what we know that she would probably give more perspective on the world and story because of her role so far.

As far as Discord, sigh I joined it but I am awful with keeping up there, I am usually too busy and forget about it then get yelled at for not responding. Anyway I do try to avoid guides until I reach a point where I cannot progress as I enjoy just playing games and figuring things out but thanks for the heads up there on Portia she stuck in my head as I liked her look but I was hesitant to waste a ton of days on figuring things out while letting the timer slowly tick down.

I understand your POV, and I know others share similar concerns — that’s actually why I included the Hotel as an alternative in the first place. To be honest, I do have mixed feelings myself. Sometimes I feel a bit ethically conflicted, other times I remind myself that this is an adult game and not the kind of fiction where I’m trying to resolve real-world moral frameworks. Because of that, I’m committed to offering both options and letting players choose how they engage with the setting.

That said, the reality is that brothel games are the #1 search path that brings players to my work on itch.io, and I already feel like I’m on the lighter side of grey compared to what a large part of the audience expects. So while I do plan to continue supporting multiple approaches and outcomes, and I really will, I do like your idea of various job options, I wish I can snap my finger and they will exist. But the truth is, getting to them, will be a bit more down the road.

But .. SASHINA!!.. Interesting.. you know.. out of all characters, she may have been the last I was thinking you or anybody would choose. Partially because she has comparatively a lot of substance compared to anybody else. But that leads me to realize something very important. .. What I consider, 'a lot' is actually .. 'no enough'. And you are likely right - and maybe that is the overall point you are making. I actually need MORE than what my standards are, to really get a character flushed out.

SO.. Okay .. I WILL add some more depth. Now that I think I'm understanding what you are saying, it will take some time to find a reasonable solution. But, I will have something ready for the next update (Jan 15!) ..
Thank you again for all your feedback!

 

[siath70]

You should expand yourself to subscribestar too. Sometimes Patreon can be funky with adult games and you should have a backup in place incase something happens. I think it's itch.io that is also another place to set yourself up.
Never hurts to have a back up place or two incase something happens.

I like how you take feed back, but don't let it drive you away from your vision or slow you down.

I also want to say, this whole conversation is looked at as though the MC is some goody goody. What if he's happy to save the world, but he's willing to do it at all costs? Or for his own gains, willing to exploit whom ever he can to get the job done and for personal gains.
What if he's happy to force girls into the brothel or use other means to get them to work there?

While you can say that some of the girls are forced or manipulated into the brothel; not everyone playing is going to feel bad about it. You're lightly touching fetishes of many players by doing things the way you are.

Anyway, I'll be joining your patreon once I get paid, I think you have a gems here and it deserves support.

 

[Chronoromancer]

You should expand yourself to subscribestar too. Sometimes Patreon can be funky with adult games and you should have a backup in place incase something happens. I think it's itch.io that is also another place to set yourself up.
Never hurts to have a back up place or two incase something happens.

I like how you take feed back, but don't let it drive you away from your vision or slow you down.

I also want to say, this whole conversation is looked at as though the MC is some goody goody. What if he's happy to save the world, but he's willing to do it at all costs? Or for his own gains, willing to exploit whom ever he can to get the job done and for personal gains.
What if he's happy to force girls into the brothel or use other means to get them to work there?

While you can say that some of the girls are forced or manipulated into the brothel; not everyone playing is going to feel bad about it. You're lightly touching fetishes of many players by doing things the way you are.

Anyway, I'll be joining your patreon once I get paid, I think you have a gems here and it deserves support.

Hey, I just wanted to circle back on your comment about SubscribeStar. You're absolutely right, and that one sentence actually sent me down a rabbit hole.

I spent the last few hours doing serious research on this, Patreon's enforcement patterns, what happened to Corrupted Kingdoms, the Collective Shout/itch.io situation in July, how payment processors are quietly pulling strings behind the scenes. It was eye-opening.

The reality for adult devs is brutal. We have so much stacked against us: the threat of losing everything overnight, activist groups targeting platforms, payment processors acting as unelected social gatekeepers, can't market openly, can't explain to family what we do, massive competition, and the constant anxiety of "is today the day my income disappears?"

And honestly? After all that research, I realized the LAST thing any of us should worry about is trying to please every single player's preferences. We're all on the same side here. The real threats are Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal dictating what legal content adults can create and consume. Infighting over fetish preferences or story directions is stupid when we're all one policy change away from losing everything.

So thank you. That one comment made me take this seriously. I'm setting up SubscribeStar as a backup and thinking longer-term about independent infrastructure. You opened my eyes to an issue way bigger than I was treating it.

Appreciate you, and thanks for the support.

 

[Chronoromancer]

I think the social aspect regarding sex work is the one area I disagree on, for three reasons.

First up is that it feels like the world is starting at the endpoint already. In other words the protagonist doesn't have to change the world into one more accepting when it already is. What could serve as a narrative device for the Voids influence turns into a merger between beginning and end. With nothing to strive for in changing of society there is less room for both the characters and story to grow.

Second is the issue with the king. Sure it is sanctioned by the crown and all, but that is the case in real life in places it is legal, and has pretty much always been the case of those running a legitimate business. All governing bodies want to keep an hand in every business they can for tax revenue among other various reasons based on business type. Even more when hotel is an option in its place there is very little differentiating the two options. I think it would be fine to build both society and the reputation of the brothel itself into one of respect, perhaps after enough training they can be higher ranked courtesans with actual skills. However treating various women essentially taken off the street with a high degree of respect socially also feels like starting at the end point, no work was needed to achieve that result.

Third as far as the modern lens, isn't the protagonist himself modern? I would expect him have at least some level of morality that reflects it. Now just to make my point of view on this clear I am absolutely fine with dark aspects and characters, if anything that is kind of where a lot of the sense of stigma pushes things from clientele to girls involved to the reaction of the protagonist. This is probably one of the issues I mind least after all this is a porn game and I 100% expect a fantasy setting to have different values from a modern one, I would be rather disappointed if they didn't as it is part of the appeal. Exploring a different through the story and characters is fun and reflecting that in the society is what makes a lot of things interesting. Another thing is a "modern" viewpoint is basically the same as it always has been, some people seeing it as a positive some against it. From the point of view of the protagonist I feel that some, even a small degree of resistance would give him a sort of fish out of water feel where he needs to adapt to changing times and changing morality with his opinions and responses reflecting the players choices. Essentially it all comes down to much of the same as the first two points room for the protagonist to grow and change.




Yeah I can see there is a ton of work to do, and will be taking a very long time to finish everything. This is the main reason I mentioned fleshing out characters as I can see how much time and effort is going to be needed to reach that end point and having a smaller cast with higher degree of completion helps show everyone playing where you are going with all the other characters coming in the future. I truly wish you the best on this, and it is good you aren't thinking things will be done anytime soon as the sheer breadth of development that needs addressing will be immensely time consuming. Almost all elements could support a game on their own so putting them together is a daunting task.

As far as characters I mentioned Summer because I remembered her and felt she was a good example. Being one of the first characters you meet and then nothing I felt illustrated my point. It is true I like her enough to remember her name though as I am awful with names in general. But there are honestly many characters I like and want to see more of, Valkyra being a good example, along with the nun, even the angel and succubus, the list would probably end after mentioning most characters. However I do think given where the story is it may be best to focus on the medieval era at the moment as it feels the most fleshed out and in a lot of ways serves as the roots of the game. If I had to pick one I would probably say Sashina would be the best to develop more fully. This is because she is one of the main driving factors in the story and already is one of the most fleshed out characters. As she has a higher start than say Summer or Valkyra you can progress further along in development as you have more to build off of, while she has a greater role in the story so knowing more about her can help with story as well. Though saying that is presumptuous as I don't actually know what is planned or anything like that, I am just assuming based on what we know that she would probably give more perspective on the world and story because of her role so far.

As far as Discord, sigh I joined it but I am awful with keeping up there, I am usually too busy and forget about it then get yelled at for not responding. Anyway I do try to avoid guides until I reach a point where I cannot progress as I enjoy just playing games and figuring things out but thanks for the heads up there on Portia she stuck in my head as I liked her look but I was hesitant to waste a ton of days on figuring things out while letting the timer slowly tick down.

I want to let you know, that I actually got intrigued by your idea to give the working brothel/hotel NPCs various jobs .. and I spent the last week implementing that. Now, it isn't yet a full separation that you and others like you hope to have, but it is a start. I thought the idea of jobs / apprenticeships was a good one. ANd for the upcoming v0.7.5 release, they will be there. I kind of prioritized that, so Sashina's narrative update is small.. I did add something .. 2 more things for her - in time I'll do more )

SO, thanks for the ideas