Can someone explain to me how to read the symbols under Vulnerabilities (ie: I have one that reads: Fear ----=|===-- Hate and another that reads DISG ===#|==== PLEA) or next to actions (ie: INJU [~~~~-] or FEAR [---`]. I couldn't find any definitions for what the -, =, #, ~, etc actually signify in the documentation. Thanks!
Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]
Reporting missing test descriptions for this commander. It's the Suppressor: Lust and Punisher: Impregnation combo.
- Jul 30, 2020
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The current chosen has a fear weakness of 6 and a hate weakness of 8. What this means in general is that it is hard to raise fear levels but inversely easier to raise hate levels (this is based on an unbroken chosen, which this chosen appears to not be). The symbols are effectively increases of the previous in the series, ie - means an adding value of 1 so, = means 2, ~ for #, etc.
So the current chosen has a fear weakness of 6 levels and hate weakness of 8 levels; disg vulnerability of 9 and plea vuln of 8 and so on.
For the action portion, every level requires a symbol change, ie I raise Reaper's INJ to level 1 which reads visually as
"INJU [-----]". To raise their injury to level 2, I need "INJU [=====]" which is 10x the amount of level 1.
- Oct 14, 2020
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To some degree, the obfuscation of the cheat setting is intentional. It's very useful for me to be able to see people come to the thread after their first time playing the game and immediately give feedback about how it went. But in the past, I've gotten balance feedback from people who clearly always play with cheats on, and it poisons the well in terms of being able to collect legitimate feedback about how the game plays normally. After the game is more complete, this won't be a concern anymore, so I'll be able to make the setting more accessible.
I have similar reasons for not just letting the player go full devmode while cheats are on. In the past, there have been cases of people directly editing their saves and causing a gamebreaking bug further down the line, and when they report that bug to me, I end up wasting development time trying to reproduce whatever happened to them. So, this is another thing that I'll be able to improve once the game is closer to completion.
What's happening in your screenshot is that because Aurora had such low ANGST at the start of the day, she goes into the downtime phase thinking "I should join my partner's downtime action in order to help her resolve her higher ANGST." Basically, she doesn't realize that she's the one who needs better trauma resolution until after the decision is already made. I agree that it probably shouldn't work like that, so I'll take a look at improving the code there.
Thanks for the typo catches. Regarding the Ambassador position, my original intent was to save the player clicks by letting them just select the Forsaken once. But I see how it would actually increase the number of clicks if you want to use different Forsaken for different Chosen. Maybe I'll make it so that each Chosen can be assigned an individual Ambassador, and there'll be an easy option to just assign that Ambassador to everybody if you want.
For some reason, I had the goal check happen when you selection an action, rather than when you select a target, so if you just skip the turn without selecting anybody, the goal completion won't be acknowledged. This will be fixed in the next update.
Any Total Break causes the subject to somehow become unsuitable for continuing to fight as one of the Chosen. You can still give them Rampancy, but you just have to not go any further than T3 breaks for Morality and Dignity.
I would like to implement Morality/Innocence Distortions and Confidence/Dignity Distortions, but I'm not 100% settled on how they'll work yet.
Because you can rename Forsaken, I'd recommend giving the old Bob a more sinister-sounding name, like "Robert."
It looks like a problem with the code that changes an existing save file's sidebar setting. This should be fixed in the next version.
Oops, when I went through the death-related text to try to make it fit better for Undead Chosen, it looks like I missed that one. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Regarding getting Imago Quickening on an Undead loop, it becomes pretty much impossible on later days unless you have a relevant item or Forsaken Punisher effect. So, all you can really do is train your current Forsaken while waiting for the natural end of the loop.
Thanks for all the feedback. I do have some plans to buff some of the starting items in order to make it a bit less tedious to get through the early days while you're still getting the first upgrades, but I don't want to innately speed up those upgrades because I think it's important to reward players who figure out ways to either get the energy quickly or make good use of those days. It's intended that training your new Forsaken is part of what those days can be used for, on Loops 2 and up. The Reset option during training is meant to make it less punishing to figure out how exactly that works.
Your interface suggestions are interesting. I don't want the game to provide too many estimates for things that can't be known for sure, because players will just get angry and complain when those estimates are wrong. But using the blank space that normally shows multipliers in order to provide beginner information makes a lot of sense. I'll experiment with it and see how it looks.
And I do, in fact, work on the game alone. But it never would've reached this point without all the ideas and bug/typo/weirdness reports from all of you. So, thanks for that.
The reason that the description is missing is that this commander isn't a valid one. You can't deploy a Punisher-Suppressor commander without a Defiler as well, so I didn't write any flavor for it. But I suppose that just having the text start mid-sentence isn't a good way to deal with that. I'll make sure to write something more descriptive for that situation in the next update.
I see though I am still a bit confused over how downtime actions are decided.
I was checking out the comment system and there seem to be something wrong with it. It stops writing on day 2 of the loop. I also tried importing the day 1 comments and it got stuck here:
Doesn't look like people use the comment system though.
Other than that i got a crash here after starting a ~28 turn orgy.I couldn't continue or close the game.
Also a minor thing but the color of Edge's text should be green here.
My current issue is that I don't really get what I should be aiming for. For instance, the tutorial system in place currently gives you good goals in regular gameplay(and then as the player, you expand on that). But for Forsaken, it's system piling up over each other (training, deployment cost, position, expertise...), with split documentation (and almost nothing in game, unless I missed it) which makes it hard to determine a proper goal and plan for it.
- May 5, 2020
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Higher rampancy=faster hate/exposure gain, which in turn increases fear/disg/pain/shame gain.
In short: the higher the rampancy, the more easily you can break their resolve in the final battle.
My first orgy! After a billion years, the game is finally starting to make sense.
I don't exactly use forsaken too much myself but i do recommend you defeat your first undead chosen through temptation and then bring the deployment requirement to 3 energy(You will understand why yourself). I personally train her in Decisive(Hate,Plea,Inj) combat style. Don't know if it's the most effective but it helps in early game.
Main use of forsaken(In my opinion) is to use them in place of a punisher commander for t4 breaks. They have different effects if you do t4 breaks through forsaken which are written in the forsaken guide(Eg: Decreasing the required punisher effectiveness.There will be a "?" which tells you that you can break that t4 vul through forsaken)
I personally do them through commanders though. Also the effect decreases after each use.
If you beat them with distortion you can then train them to have special distortion defiler actions through the last four training actions,depending on which breaks you did on them. Eg: Temptation defiler can be obtained through Grand concert or instill fixation. It allows you to turn the forsaken into a high pleasure combat type mid battle(Haven't tried them myself cause I am too lazy)
As for using them in place of usual commander, i personally don't feel they are better than the usual commanders. Considering the fact that forsaken deal less damage at lower deployment cost and if trained for multiple circ damage.I don't see how it would be beneficial to use a forsaken at 30 or more energy when you can deploy a synthesis or a completion commander. But like i said since I don't use forsaken too much so i don't think I have any right to complain. This is also the reason why defeating Victory through negotiation felt lackluster to me, since i prefer using commanders over forsaken.
Now after all this you may think that I don't use forsaken at all. Which is kinda true since I have done 2 runs, 1 till loop12(before bosses) and 1 till loop 10 (against victory) while using mostly the tempted undead forsaken only. Though for the Victory fight itself, i prepared a few 1000% damage style commander in order to deal with her. They helped a lot in triggering temptation and Rampage on her 2 partners.
As for the Sacrifice option, it unlocks an achievement which gives you +1 energy at start of battle with increasing requirement. You can get upto +4 energy at start through this if you sacrifice a bunch of forsaken. I don't like sacrifing forsaken but i think giving this achievement a buff may be necessary on higher levels for better early start.
- Dec 30, 2021
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Got a bit curious after reading Nobody032's post about chosen being weaker than commanders, and figured I'd share what I find out. - By decompiling the java source code.... again. To establish a baseline, I'll re-share the 3 types of commanders damage progression. Basically, commanders deal damage to trauma and circumstance in a step-down fashion, similar to surround actions. All damage is additive.
Suppressor:
Trauma - 100,75,50,25
Circumstance - 200
Defiler:
Trauma - 200,100,50,25
Circumstance - 300,150
Punisher: (Net damage * punisher effectiveness)
Trauma - 1000,300,100,30
Circumstance - 3000
Now, for Forsaken, damage gets a bit more complicated.
First, we need the forsaken's power constant (PC)- this is the chosen's listed reputation strength (200-2*disgrace) * any additional modifiers to base damage
Trauma - PC * punisher trauma applied equally to all Trauma's.
Circumstance - PC * 5 * style modifier - damage is applied equally, but only to style specific circumstances. Additionally, several modifiers can further increase this damage, with some effects also applying to Trauma damage.
So, what does all that mean? Well, let's take a basic 58% disgrace forsaken - That'll cost 18 EE to deploy, and has a reputation strength of 84. So we can expect them to deal 84 base trauma. As for circumstance, they can deal a base damage of 4200, 420, 63, or 12~13 to 1,2,3, or 4 circumstance types.
How does that square up against a 5/3 defiler commander? (Same EE cost, average truama of 93.75, average circumstance of 225 to 2). The defiler wins out in terms of trauma damage (average 93.75 damage). It deals a bit higher average damage, though the forsaken will deal more damage to the demons weaker attributes. In terms of circumstantial damage though? The forsaken wins, by a pretty high margin, if they are targeting 1-2 circumstances. The single target chosen can even beat out a defiler type demon, with under 400% efficiency.
Lets go a bit higher - What about a disgrace of 54%, or 28EE cost? That's comparable to the above demon, with an added suppressor. With a reputation strength of 92, that's going to be a base trauma of 92, and 4600, 460, 69, 14~13. Vs the demons average of 156.25 trauma damage, and ~216 avg. circumstance damage? Again, Trauma goes to the demon, but circumstance? Yes, a forsaken targeting 2 vulnerabilities will deal more average damage, but overall a demon targeting 3 will hit for harder than a comparable chose, for 3. That is, of course, assuming we aren't fielding a 5/5 or 6/5 commander to deal with T3 vulnerability breaks.
So, let's do that. A 5/5 defiler/suppressor commander is 58 EE. We don't have a 58 EE chosen, closest is a 41% disgrace for 59EE. At that level (118 rep), they'll be dealing 118 base trauma, and 5900/590/89~88/18~17 circumstance damage, based on style. Well, those numbers didn't improve - Much better when targeting 2 traits, worse when targeting 3-4. I'm noticing a pattern here....
In conclusion, a baseline chosen will deal less trauma damage than a demon of a similar cost, while dealing much more circumstance damage. Provided, of course, they are targeting only 1-2 circumstances. Otherwise, the demon commander scales better for targeting 3-4 circumstances. Which suggests that in order to use a 3 target chosen successfully, they'll need to have multiple damage modifiers stacked on to match a comparable cost demon.
Suppressor:
Trauma - 100,75,50,25
Circumstance - 200
Defiler:
Trauma - 200,100,50,25
Circumstance - 300,150
Punisher: (Net damage * punisher effectiveness)
Trauma - 1000,300,100,30
Circumstance - 3000
Now, for Forsaken, damage gets a bit more complicated.
First, we need the forsaken's power constant (PC)- this is the chosen's listed reputation strength (200-2*disgrace) * any additional modifiers to base damage
- Species/Boss modifiers (does not include shattered soul debuff, that gets applied after all other bonuses to actual damage)
- Knowings Target Intimately +50%
- Knowings Target Personally Or obsessed with target +25%
- Defiling - (300-disgrace*2)/100, or (100 + PC) /100
Trauma - PC * punisher trauma applied equally to all Trauma's.
Circumstance - PC * 5 * style modifier - damage is applied equally, but only to style specific circumstances. Additionally, several modifiers can further increase this damage, with some effects also applying to Trauma damage.
- Defiler bonus damage -
- Normal - *2 additional damage to specific circumstance.
- Tempt - Change style, and apply temp effect if possible. (side note, if tempting, style becomes a unique 1000% PLEA/EXPO style - but trauma damage is set to 0)
- Traumatize - Base trauma damage becomes PC * 10 for DISG and PAIN, before other modifiers. Circumstance damage becomes 0.
- EXP multiplier
- Distortion bonuses
- Punisher circumstance bonuses
- Dissociative Identity (Shattered Soul) - 20% damage reduction after all other modifiers, to Trauma and Circumstance. (assuming it's effect is active)
So, what does all that mean? Well, let's take a basic 58% disgrace forsaken - That'll cost 18 EE to deploy, and has a reputation strength of 84. So we can expect them to deal 84 base trauma. As for circumstance, they can deal a base damage of 4200, 420, 63, or 12~13 to 1,2,3, or 4 circumstance types.
How does that square up against a 5/3 defiler commander? (Same EE cost, average truama of 93.75, average circumstance of 225 to 2). The defiler wins out in terms of trauma damage (average 93.75 damage). It deals a bit higher average damage, though the forsaken will deal more damage to the demons weaker attributes. In terms of circumstantial damage though? The forsaken wins, by a pretty high margin, if they are targeting 1-2 circumstances. The single target chosen can even beat out a defiler type demon, with under 400% efficiency.
Lets go a bit higher - What about a disgrace of 54%, or 28EE cost? That's comparable to the above demon, with an added suppressor. With a reputation strength of 92, that's going to be a base trauma of 92, and 4600, 460, 69, 14~13. Vs the demons average of 156.25 trauma damage, and ~216 avg. circumstance damage? Again, Trauma goes to the demon, but circumstance? Yes, a forsaken targeting 2 vulnerabilities will deal more average damage, but overall a demon targeting 3 will hit for harder than a comparable chose, for 3. That is, of course, assuming we aren't fielding a 5/5 or 6/5 commander to deal with T3 vulnerability breaks.
So, let's do that. A 5/5 defiler/suppressor commander is 58 EE. We don't have a 58 EE chosen, closest is a 41% disgrace for 59EE. At that level (118 rep), they'll be dealing 118 base trauma, and 5900/590/89~88/18~17 circumstance damage, based on style. Well, those numbers didn't improve - Much better when targeting 2 traits, worse when targeting 3-4. I'm noticing a pattern here....
In conclusion, a baseline chosen will deal less trauma damage than a demon of a similar cost, while dealing much more circumstance damage. Provided, of course, they are targeting only 1-2 circumstances. Otherwise, the demon commander scales better for targeting 3-4 circumstances. Which suggests that in order to use a 3 target chosen successfully, they'll need to have multiple damage modifiers stacked on to match a comparable cost demon.
Got a bit of a tough decision to make, with regards to my third city
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I'm having a bit of a difficult time evaluating how good the "Green Fairy Dust" item is compared to "Reason's Pantsu" - Considering my starter item is "Orgasm in a Can". Fijisawa seems like the better city, overall, but the item doesn't seem that useful to me. Hirakata looks a bit more difficult, but the item seems much better. I could use a second opinion on this.
or
I'm having a bit of a difficult time evaluating how good the "Green Fairy Dust" item is compared to "Reason's Pantsu" - Considering my starter item is "Orgasm in a Can". Fijisawa seems like the better city, overall, but the item doesn't seem that useful to me. Hirakata looks a bit more difficult, but the item seems much better. I could use a second opinion on this.
Well didn't expect someone to do an indepth analysis. Do you think penalties will make up for the damage difference between them? Or what if you decide to use a defiler commander with the corresponding suppressor upgrade(Force orgasm defiler+Plea suppressor etc)?
Since Forsaken deal most damage while in 1-2 DMG combat method you would have to use them after doing some damage in advance else you will either not get a lot of opening or not deal as much circ damage as you could.
As for commanders, you could just use a 30 energy Hate Plea Inju 6/3 commander and then later surround+ Humiliate after capturing second chosen. Forsaken themselves may deal a lot of damage on 1~2 circ but when you surround afterwards you will have to deal with the circ penalty and may not even get many opening depending on the 2 damage types.
Now if the normal chosen have T3 confidence break you will need a 5 capture commander to get 3 captures. But I usually just capture 2 of the chosen and deal with the other chosen myself. Using this method i can start an orgy while having atleast 2 or 3 chosen still have openings after the orgy which I can later use to surround and increase punisher effectiveness one by one and still have 1 capture left.
Another thing forsaken lack is flight. Assuming you use the above(use two captures, save one)method you can get 300%+ Drain effectiveness by capturing a chosen before she regenerates after the orgy. With forsaken you can't do anything against flying chosen unless you count species traits.
Other than that i also prefer consistent captures over captures based around relationship, you can also change around duration for commanders to better fit your scenario. Also I don't see how any forsaken could compare with a completion commander dealing damage in all four circumstance. Though the requirements for getting that commander can be more I guess.
Depends on you honestly. I personally would go for Reason's pantsu since it helps in more scenarios. If you like doing temptations you could get Green fairy dust, the 50% decrease in requirement helps a ton and with Hate and inju levels you deal more Circ damage in temptation.But Reason's pantsu also helps in triggering temptation especially on chosen with minor Innocence vul who always get Level 3 Plea before Hate or inju.
If you do get Reason's pantsu make sure to get a reasonable cost 1000% plea forsaken to help in getting temptation.
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- Nov 9, 2022
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"used" and "smug" are replacements for "Lewd" and "Joy" used by Forsaken that don't have full Forsaken portrait sets; if they're not in the game'll just use the base one so it's safe to ignore them. Originally they were there so you could manually swap to them when Chosen start getting perverted or sadistic enough to justify the change.
The new boss chosen are probably going to need some new portrait sets for a lot of the existing image packs, huh? I saw voidsocks make some good looking ones, but all the packs have some stylistic differences.
When I took a crack at it I had no luck copying the existing styles. That worked out for me because I was doing alternative/forsaken versions, but for a full set I don't know that anyone can make 'em like the original authors.
When I took a crack at it I had no luck copying the existing styles. That worked out for me because I was doing alternative/forsaken versions, but for a full set I don't know that anyone can make 'em like the original authors.
But if you put them in anyway they get used, right? I feel like I've seen the 'used' and 'smug' portraits show up in game.
I'm not exactly sure what penalties you are referring to, but I believe any chosen or situation specific modifiers are applied after these calculations, so they'd effect both equally. Advanced chosen might skew the numbers in the favor of forsaken though, as some of their T3 abilities are weaker against forsaken.
As for complementary suppressors, the math is the same, I was averaging the damages of each type, then adding them together for my final numbers. And while a focused approach does mean more damage on a specific circumstance, it's still not enough to match a comparable chosen's values, as long as they are targeting 1-2 circumstances.
From my experience, it seems like forsaken are best used to break T1-T2 vulnerabilities early in the game before you unlock all the 20EE upgrades, or for applying useful effects on future forsaken via punishers. They could potentially also fill weird niches, like capturing the same chosen 4+ times to increase train. You might be able to make a forsaken that can deal more trauma damage than a demon, but it'd probably require a combination of the two publicist punishers that give added trauma damage.
- Nov 9, 2022
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Yes, the Fosaken will use them. At some point I'll get around to commissioning some vignettes that call for them for Chosen.
I can't help it. From the beginning,
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when I read "Commander."