Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 54] [CSDev]

[Ragsmu]

Then how to get failure below 80%?

I think what I'd need is a trait guide because they are so wildly expensive (my income around day 30 still tends to be ~4-6 energy per day, or 0-2 if using commanders) and i just cant seem to figure out which ones to take when in order to get ahead of the curve

I'd also really appreciate some difficulty settings. If the only way to win is to intentionally leave out a lot of content (eg only corrupt girls in a specific way because you just dont have the resources for anything else) thats not fun

So, the curve. If you are playing campaign first thing you want to do is take 10k break item that correspondents to your initial chosen core. with proper usage (2 surround actions during usage) you can make your initial chosen produce +2EE from get go. Now you are trying as much as you can to prolong each battle to get your last girl by turn 7. i think 6 is possible but it's difficult so 7 is easy to aim for. When you get your 3rd chosen. Core break events will trigger providing you with sizable amount of EE. counting all the extr income you should have enough for 4 turn 2 capture commander. such commander will be enough to break t1 cores. and maybe some t2. But do not forget, every time you make a commander - you need to have clear goal in mind. like "This turn i go in and break Innocence core on Hope"and you need to retry until you achieve your goal. AS long as you breakign cores - income will roll in due to events. another small infusion is from turn 15 interview where you need all cores broken to t2 for best effect.

But i digress. For Upgrade path. 2 capture 4 Turn commander. then 2/5(enough for t2 cores) then rush "Networked consciousness" this is biggest upgrade that makes juggling surrounds easy. then get all extermination/evacuation upgrades. after that game is so easy that you just break everything that is still unbroken and reap endless energy. probably will be done in late 30s for the first campaign loop.

 

[Kalloi]

Is it a bug that the negotiate downtime action isn't giving any EE? If you go to a Chosen after they do it, it says yesterday they awarded +15 EE (Distortion-related Downtime Action) but I have two negotiations going on right now and I only gain +15 EE a day from the odd girl out, and in the day's end report for each negotiated girl there's no +X EE statement.

Negotiate downtime doesn't give any EE, it might be a bug if that the game is saying yesterday they awarded 15 EE, I can also see it as a wording issue where it might just mean like "last EE gained from this chosen" and it doesn't take into account days where they produced no EE

 

[Hamakabula]

So, the curve. If you are playing campaign first thing you want to do is take 10k break item that correspondents to your initial chosen core. with proper usage (2 surround actions during usage) you can make your initial chosen produce +2EE from get go. Now you are trying as much as you can to prolong each battle to get your last girl by turn 7. i think 6 is possible but it's difficult so 7 is easy to aim for. When you get your 3rd chosen. Core break events will trigger providing you with sizable amount of EE. counting all the extr income you should have enough for 4 turn 2 capture commander. such commander will be enough to break t1 cores. and maybe some t2. But do not forget, every time you make a commander - you need to have clear goal in mind. like "This turn i go in and break Innocence core on Hope"and you need to retry until you achieve your goal. AS long as you breakign cores - income will roll in due to events. another small infusion is from turn 15 interview where you need all cores broken to t2 for best effect.

But i digress. For Upgrade path. 2 capture 4 Turn commander. then 2/5(enough for t2 cores) then rush "Networked consciousness" this is biggest upgrade that makes juggling surrounds easy. then get all extermination/evacuation upgrades. after that game is so easy that you just break everything that is still unbroken and reap endless energy. probably will be done in late 30s for the first campaign loop.

How does prolonging the battle change when girls arrive? I can surround the initial one but wether the others shows up seems to not be impacted by that. In my current playthrough I can easily surround them for 6-10 turns but that doesnt help much since the others will just blast through my monsters in like 2 rounds and then the next surround will always end in them flying away anyway

(I know theres an anti-fly commander later down the line but i dont have it yet.)

For this reason I usually rush the upgrades to evacuation and extermination time but maybe those are a waste of energy?

Also how to break T1 with such a basic commander? Usually it needs 10k damage. And we're talking circumstance damage. Thats just waaay high. I had an item this run which gave me x10 base damage multiplier and even then i barely managed to stack enough basic modifiers to make enough surrounds and circumstance damage.

Is there a rotation for maximum effect? Prioritize exposure? Injury? On one girl fast or evenly spread?
And how do I use commanders to best effect?

So far I usually surround the initial one manually, then drop the commander on 1st reinforcement to prolong battle and stack modifiers, then on the initial one again. By then they will have usually cleared the wave and ill be out of commanders so i juggle surrounds between 2 girls and just stack damage on the one I want to break, then when both have flown away ill drop a final surround on her and hope itll be enough

Also I've read of ways to gain EE during battle beside breaking tiers, something like doing 1000 circ damage to their highest resist, but I think ive done that a bunch of times with no effect

 

[Ragsmu]

How does prolonging the battle change when girls arrive? I can surround the initial one but wether the others shows up seems to not be impacted by that. In my current playthrough I can easily surround them for 6-10 turns but that doesnt help much since the others will just blast through my monsters in like 2 rounds and then the next surround will always end in them flying away anyway

(I know theres an anti-fly commander later down the line but i dont have it yet.)

For this reason I usually rush the upgrades to evacuation and extermination time but maybe those are a waste of energy?

Also how to break T1 with such a basic commander? Usually it needs 10k damage. And we're talking circumstance damage. Thats just waaay high. I had an item this run which gave me x10 base damage multiplier and even then i barely managed to stack enough basic modifiers to make enough surrounds and circumstance damage.

Is there a rotation for maximum effect? Prioritize exposure? Injury? On one girl fast or evenly spread?
And how do I use commanders to best effect?

So far I usually surround the initial one manually, then drop the commander on 1st reinforcement to prolong battle and stack modifiers, then on the initial one again. By then they will have usually cleared the wave and ill be out of commanders so i juggle surrounds between 2 girls and just stack damage on the one I want to break, then when both have flown away ill drop a final surround on her and hope itll be enough

Also I've read of ways to gain EE during battle beside breaking tiers, something like doing 1000 circ damage to their highest resist, but I think ive done that a bunch of times with no effect

for first point.

I was talking about initial phase where you get your chosen. basically turn 1. Turns at which you get your 2nd and 3rd chosen are not static and depend on your total rounds in combat. so you want to setup your surrounds in early game to get girls asap. (More early EE)

> Also how to break T1 with such a basic commander?

10k surround action is T2 break . For T1 it's making girl to do avoidance action. She needs to see a threat that her circumstance damage may reach a 10k during a surround iirc then if you use corresponding action T1 breaks.

>about surrounds.

What you need to understand about them is as long as girl was surrounded prior to extermination reaching 100% - you will be able to capture her again, as long as someone else is surrounded to prevent battle from ending (or you have upgrade to delay battle end by a turn). ususal pattern is . Capture 1st from the get go. Surround her after she comes out. Capture 2nd arrival and setup expo. Setup single turn surround to be ready on 3rd. when there is only last turn of surround on girl 1 left if it's already at 100%/100% then trigger single turn surround on 3rd and recapture 1st.

>Also I've read of ways to gain EE during battle beside breaking tiers, something like doing 1000 circ damage to their highest resist, but I think ive done that a bunch of times with no effect

Those are prebreaks on Core, you get them 1 time.

Sorry i am sleepy Right now, so my explanations are likely incoherent. If you really want - drop a save and i'll give you an example based on your stuff how things work, but only after i wake up

 

[CSdev]

Thank you to everybody who's been posting bug reports, particularly those who have included save files and instructions for how to reproduce the bug. And thank you to the participants of Kalloi's contest as well - I really never thought I'd see a city with 82% damage mitigation. In the coming versions, the next advanced species will be worth a lot of "difficulty points," so the modifiers the game generates won't be quite so crazy. This is making me think that I should be sure to implement a proper endless mode even after the game has a final boss, though.

• I think SuperSkippy and I have different strategies and they were both viable, so that's the mark of good design. Nice work CSdev! The items are also a big factor in how you'll play, but as seen, even a mediocre acquisition can be worked with.

I'm glad that it seems to be working well! My goal with items is that their potential strength should scale with their influence cost, but they should also pull you in a particular strategic direction in order to make full use of their potential.

• On that note, I'm none the wiser as to what influence actually indicates. Is it how much influence you gain from that city or is it the cost of the item? Could there be a running total on the item page?

The number displayed for each city is your running total, minus the cost of all the items you've picked up already. The reason that the item page doesn't display each individual item's cost is that once you own the item, its cost doesn't affect anything anymore. The way the game picks items is that it takes a weighted random pick from among all items whose influence costs are lower than your current influence. For cities that come with items, the influence displayed is how much is left over after obtaining the item. Cities with fewer powerful Chosen give you slightly more influence to balance out the fact that your Forsaken roster will be a bit weaker due to passing up on the powerful species.

• I found Undead much easier to deal with than animalistics, probably more on par with superiors. The EE drain isn't bad unless you let the loop drag on and while their T3 abilities are nasty, they can be dealt with. I'm really looking forward to the "exhausted" change to stop a broken undead just spamming enervation though!

I agree with this assessment. We'll see if this release's tweak to Undead bonus energy brings them a bit closer together.

• Is it possible to have the Forsaken page as a spreadsheet style thing? It would be great to have cost, damage type, training plan all on the one page. Having "unassign all" and and a button to implement everyone's planned training would also be great.

I should try to improve the interface there in one way or another. The piecemeal implementation of Forsaken features has led to some pretty disjointed menus.

• Level 5 sacrifice fired on 42 when it says the threshold is 60.

This was just a typo in the displayed text. The intended threshold is supposed to be 40.

I'd apologise for the terrible puns/naming, but I'm not actually sorry.

You know, it's a detail of the setting that there are different Demon Lords for different sins. I suppose there might be a Demon Lord of bad puns.

Damn, the game be spittin'
View attachment 2482499

Sometimes it really is like that.

Yeah, there's a lot of information in the saves.sav that is being processed during normal operation, not just during saving and loading. When you have a lot of saved info, you will notice the game get laggy--it's the JVM.

Hopefully this should be improved in the current release due to the new relationship code. Old save files won't get any smaller, but new ones shouldn't get so big as quickly.

I do like the ability to retry fights, but I often have to navigate back to loading because at the start of the fight, two important decisions have already been made: which Chosen I'm targeting, and (in the case of a base Commander, which happens less and less) which move I'm starting with. I've often also spent EE in ways that I thought would work but ended up not working. I, personally, would rather have a button that restarts the whole day, rather than a button that restarts just the fight, if you're taking suggestions.

I think it makes sense to have both. Now that the basic system seems to be working, it should be easy to add other autosave points.

To continue our earlier discussion:

So the use case is:
1) I've got a Chosen that I've managed to raise to 100M, 1G, 10G, or 100G SHAM.
2) I've done that through only Defiler+ actions (It'd be really hard to get this done through ordinary Defilers, and an Orgy would bring them all up around this threshold).
3) I've got a chosen whose ANGST just won't go up.
Even in such a system, all ANGST brings out is extra damage and a higher EE downtime action. I'm fairly sure you're planning for that, but it seems to me that what I'd need in this situation would be more Trauma to allow a T3 break, not just Angst. But, again, I don't have all the mechanics here so I'm probably missing the point.

All I can say is that you should wait and see some of the later-tier Chosen species before you judge. Anything that allows you to leverage a weaker Chosen to break a stronger one has the potential to be very powerful.

An Unbreakable Friendship isn't, if there are still breaks left that relate the two Chosen. I can be less cautious about T1/T2 breaks than I have in the past because T3/T4 breaks can give me what I need, generally.

This actually sounds like a bug. The game tries to look at how many scenes are remaining before declaring a friendship unbreakable. If you can upload a save where an unbreakable friendship turns sour, I'd greatly appreciate it.

City 1 seems doable enough. One thing I was pondering with these 20 day runs: Should the Undead EE siphon ramp up faster? With so few days, it never gets to scale enough to be noticeable/annoying.

I thought about doing this, but I opted to keep it the same for now. Early-deadline loops are already hard, after all, and the energy siphon is a mechanic that decreases the decision space of the player. The fewer options the player has for how to spend EE, the more likely it is to run into a truly unwinnable situation. It's why I've been more cautious about Undead balancing in general - even a small tweak might push them from "too easy" all the way to "no fun allowed."

Also, can you ever get 3 of the same elite in campaign mode? 3 Undead wouldn't be so bad, but 3 Animalistic would be a nightmare unless you could sync up at least 2 on the right day early.

In theory, you can. In practice, it's much less likely than it should be. I'll be tweaking the advanced species generation logic in the coming releases.

New update is up at

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Anyone know if new updates tend to be compatible with existing campaigns, or do you need to start over if you update?

I try to maintain save compatibility, but even if it doesn't cause a crash, updating a save will often result in weird immersion-breaking behavior.

Can confirm that you don't gain the initial EE hit for returning temptation/rampaging chosen but personally rampaging chosen and negotiation returning chosen have their use since the EE from early rampages allows one to get most the upgrades you need to do major damage early on and negotiation chosen can give the angst bomb to their newly made teammates as soon as you can meet them in person again. It would be interesting if aversion/temptation had as similar buff that could be utilized as soon as they show up though

The Negotiation bonus for returning Chosen was actually a late addition made because I wanted it to match the other three - in my view, the potential bonuses of facing Chosen who already have low Aversion/Temptation thresholds are already quite powerful. Chosen with a low Temptation PLEA threshold can be made to start generating 15 EE per day pretty early on (and much more controllably than the +30 EE from Rampancy Chosen), while Chosen with a low Aversion Orgy-turn threshold can allow you to turn a very short Orgy into a long followup surround against one of the partners.

I have a question for you guys who have played campaign: If I start a campaign and in the very first mission before the other girls show up get a few breaks (thanks orgasm in a can) on a chosen's core vulnerability, will she properly damage her relationship with the other girls later on or is their relationship unaffected because it hasn't formed yet?

It should cause the normal negative relationship scene, but only on a day where all three Chosen have shown up and any higher-priority scenes have already played on previous days.

Great work on the new update! Always love more Corrupted Saviors content, i've finished a loop without issues. On a more story-related note, this dialogue:

Spoiler

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I'm glad that the story content is to your liking! I try to dripfeed it in such a way that it doesn't get in the way of the content that most people are here for, but there will be quite a bit more of it coming alongside the boss fights.

I can only assume this is a bug, from what the provided guides have to say about fighting styles

Mayhem
Real name: Rokuda Sakura

Stamina: 9.5%
Motivation: 100.0%

Expertise
HATE: 55.5k (x1.150 dmg)
PLEA: 179k (x1.322 dmg)
INJU: 172k (x1.317 dmg)
EXPO: 58.2k (x1.157 dmg)
Combat Style: Practical (15% PLEA/INJU/EXPO)
Attempts to pin the target in a helpless position and then use a combination of pain and pleasure to disrupt any attempts at resistance.  Relatively effective against targets who are too well-composed for emotional manipulation to work.

Training Plan: Dirty (100% PLEA/INJU)
Increases PLEA and INJU expertise

Trait: Eager Partner
While Obedience remains below 40%, 1/4 Motivation cost to deploy and +50% PLEA and EXPO damage

First Hypnosis: Demon Lord

Hostility: 21% (Ambivalent about humanity)
Deviancy: 47% (Twisted sexual desires)
Obedience: 37% (Obeys due to expectation of rewards)
Disgrace: 63% (Viewed with contempt)

EXPO is less than a third her max, yet she refuses to drop it.

This isn't a bug, but it is an extreme edge case based on Mayhem's personality roll. When Forsaken decide on their combat style, they multiply each expertise value by up to x2 depending on their personality, which means that the 58k there ends up looking like 116k to Mayhem. In other words, as far as she's concerned, it's not EXPO that's the outlier - rather, HATE is the one that's much lower than the others. And so she picks a combat style without HATE. If you keep going, she should switch before too much longer.

I have a game on my tab "antimatter dimensions" in which I spent... waaaay too much time. When others ask me about it, I can only say something like "It's ehh a game ehh about ehhh numbers.... ehhh?"
So yeah, there are people who can enjoy orgy for 45 turns, lol.

I used to enjoy that one, too. Ah, memories.

Sure,
Here's save I'm trying out with - Cheated start with all 3 characters going through same kind of treatment, doesn't matter who to focus, result is same for every one of them.
EDIT: cleared up save slots there

Thanks for uploading this. It is indeed a bug with the way that anal virginity is stored and displayed for Chosen.

Is it a bug that the negotiate downtime action isn't giving any EE? If you go to a Chosen after they do it, it says yesterday they awarded +15 EE (Distortion-related Downtime Action) but I have two negotiations going on right now and I only gain +15 EE a day from the odd girl out, and in the day's end report for each negotiated girl there's no +X EE statement.

It looks like the code to store the previous day's EE generation was buried in a conditional that required positive EE gain, so days where you generate no EE wouldn't change the number even as the description itself correctly noted that a Distortion-related downtime had taken place. Thanks for the bug report, it'll be fixed in the next version.

 

[Celerarity]

Thanks for the responses CSdev. Mayhem's still stuck in the EXPO pit three loops later but after I gave up on her fixing her style I used Grand Concert to unlock her tempt ability so that's probably why.

I had a suggestion pop into my mind the other day as I was playing. I put a forsaken up (Mayhem) in the bait position for loop 2 and was surprised when coincidentally the portrait that was chosen had the same hair color. I thought that was kind of neat, almost like it was following anime rules where everyone in a family had the same hair color. Then I thought that it might be straightforward to implement a system like that for real, if you allowed for a simple text file in the portrait folder that just included a list of other portrait names that the current one was 'similar to'.

If you could set it up so that when a bait character draws in a family member (or maybe do the check when anyone is made a family member) that it looks at that character's assigned portrait and tries to draw from the list, you could allow for them to inherit similar looks from them.

Four issues in advance:

• Players can change portraits so the system might fall apart if they do that
• Portrait packs are somewhat limited due to the quality and quantity of pictures needed (I got repeat chosen on loops 3 and 4 but that might just be because I updated a version), so the system would only hold up as long as the small pool of options within a linkage does
• Theoretically this relationship also allows for intersecting sets (A looks like B, who looks like C, but A and C do not look that alike and might be step-siblings or have inherited different genes something), for better or for worse. It could be possible to first generate a chosen, then generate a sister, then off that bait daughter generate a mother who matches one sibling much better than other.
• Might not be a simple task to add depending on how you handle chosen generation and portrait assignment, it's too minor to be worth serious energy

 

[Hamakabula]

for first point.

I was talking about initial phase where you get your chosen. basically turn 1. Turns at which you get your 2nd and 3rd chosen are not static and depend on your total rounds in combat. so you want to setup your surrounds in early game to get girls asap. (More early EE)

> Also how to break T1 with such a basic commander?

10k surround action is T2 break . For T1 it's making girl to do avoidance action. She needs to see a threat that her circumstance damage may reach a 10k during a surround iirc then if you use corresponding action T1 breaks.

>about surrounds.

What you need to understand about them is as long as girl was surrounded prior to extermination reaching 100% - you will be able to capture her again, as long as someone else is surrounded to prevent battle from ending (or you have upgrade to delay battle end by a turn). ususal pattern is . Capture 1st from the get go. Surround her after she comes out. Capture 2nd arrival and setup expo. Setup single turn surround to be ready on 3rd. when there is only last turn of surround on girl 1 left if it's already at 100%/100% then trigger single turn surround on 3rd and recapture 1st.

>Also I've read of ways to gain EE during battle beside breaking tiers, something like doing 1000 circ damage to their highest resist, but I think ive done that a bunch of times with no effect

Those are prebreaks on Core, you get them 1 time.

Sorry i am sleepy Right now, so my explanations are likely incoherent. If you really want - drop a save and i'll give you an example based on your stuff how things work, but only after i wake up

Thanks for the tips, I now managed to get them all to full T1/partial T2 before the day 15 interview, which made for a fun read. By far the biggest gamechanger was to just not use the upgrades for the commander. They pale in comparison to the combo damage you can do manually.

Whats their point even?
Edit: Nvm, they seem to be very powerful in later battles.

Damn, I think I finally figured things out. Absolutely brutalising the chosen now. It's finally super fun, and the reward is so much better after the long wait

 

[Ragsmu]

Thanks for the tips, I now managed to get them all to full T1/partial T2 before the day 15 interview, which made for a fun read. By far the biggest gamechanger was to just not use the upgrades for the commander. They pale in comparison to the combo damage you can do manually.

Whats their point even?
Edit: Nvm, they seem to be very powerful in later battles.

Damn, I think I finally figured things out. Absolutely brutalising the chosen now. It's finally super fun, and the reward is so much better after the long wait

Ah, non basic commander problem - yea thats a thing that happens often to new players. And those upgrade things can be used either as part of distortion strats or building Exodia commander late game with 4 damage types.

Edit: By the way you really want to pay attention to order in which you break your chosen's weaknesses. If you want them to get antagonistic to each other you need to break Cores first without touching minors and if you want them to be friendly - then vice versa. (i.e. When you break lets say Confidence Core on a girl, Game checks if Confidence minor of the same level is broken on another girl. If it is - they get friendly and you get less EE from event, if it's not - they get enimity and more EE for you)

 

[Celerarity]

Since this loop is my first time training forsaken, I did some math on their values (specifically, their risk vs reward due to disgrace) and figured I'd share a writeup for people who are interested. Some of this info is poorly documented or not easy to get to as a player, and other is documented fine but the actual useful conclusions need more math. I think I did it right but if you spot any mistakes let me know, and if you don't like math just read the last part.

Step 1, figure out how disgrace's cost vs power scales.

This is in the reference text, and at values above 10 disgrace they are steady functions - one's a polynomial, (well line, but it counts) one's an exponential. This is all we need, because if you actually use forsaken at 10 disgrace or lower I am afraid of you and you have transcended math.

Step 2, gain predictive power.

I couldn't be bothered to write out the equations myself (even the simple power reduction) so I fit the curves in wolfram. Here are the two equations, and you can find the cost and power of a forsaken for any given disgrace X. Testing with the values of my existing forsaken proves they work.

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You must be registered to see the links

Step 3, derive useful information.

Obviously nobody uses 1 disgrace forsaken (It's possible to get one with the right ability) because they cost too much EE, and nobody uses 100 disgrace forsaken because they deal 0 damage. Is there anywhere along this relationship we can take advantage of? Well, there has to be. Because one is an exponential and the other is a polynomial, there's going to be some point of tradeoff between the beginning, where each point of disgrace is worth tons of EE and no power, and the end, where each point is worth almost no EE and increasingly large portions of power.

The quantity we want to track here is the relative power point drop per EE saved at any given disgrace, and that's just the ratio of the two functions above. By taking the derivative we can analyze how this relationship changes over the disgrace, and we see something interesting



There's an inflection point right around 70 (specifically at 71.2) where the next point of power you spend is worth less total EE than the point before it. This is pretty useful, though it's not quite ready to be a final result due to some missing factors. There's also another point of interest in this function's derivative



Here we can see the crossing we already identified, but we can also note an inflection point around 56.7 where the second derivative of EE/power begins to drop. Or in simpler terms, the point where power/EE is still growing, but its growth has begun to slow. You can keep taking derivatives and finding inflections forever, since this is an exponential (next one is at 42.3) but they become increasingly less meaningful.

Step 4, get breakpoints

We have a bunch of interesting numbers but they aren't quite ready to use in the game. For starters, disgrace is an integer and our values are decimals. More importantly, we need to account for the fact that the EE cost rounds up. If we pick a disgrace value that costs 12.1 EE, we'll lose 0.9 EE to rounding and get absolutely nothing from it. This isn't as big a deal if you have a large EE cost, but the smaller your costs get the more these losses are worth. These are easy enough to find with trial and error, you just have to search around and pick one.

• 70.1 -> 68 (8.97 EE)
• 56.7 -> 58 (17.95 EE)
• 42.3 -> 43 (50.77 EE

Step 5, summarize results.

If you want a low power chosen, try a disgrace of 68 for a cost of 9 EE and a strength of 64%. If you go any higher than that you're losing more raw power than you save in costs, so you better have some trick up your sleeve that makes power not matter like stacking BS amounts of buffs.

If you want someone who can hit harder than a low power chosen on a budget, try 58 D, 18 EE, 84% chosen. They cost twice as much for about a 30% power boost from the budget model, which could be the difference between getting a break and not.

If you want something you can throw in towards the high end while you're still trying to get those T3/T4 breaks, try a 43 D, 51 EE, 114% chosen. It's a positive power multiplier at a cost that might make you wonder why you don't just bring a commander that can grab them out of the air, but things like detonations and superior chosen can make forsaken shine where commanders can't. Plus you have to research them and this could get you going quicker.

Or if you want to use any of their T4 break abilities just leave disgrace as low as possible and blow 200 EE like a boss.

 

[Chekhovs_Ghost]

Since this loop is my first time training forsaken, I did some math on their values (specifically, their risk vs reward due to disgrace) and figured I'd share a writeup for people who are interested. Some of this info is poorly documented or not easy to get to as a player, and other is documented fine but the actual useful conclusions need more math. I think I did it right but if you spot any mistakes let me know, and if you don't like math just read the last part.

Step 1, figure out how disgrace's cost vs power scales.

This is in the reference text, and at values above 10 disgrace they are steady functions - one's a polynomial, (well line, but it counts) one's an exponential. This is all we need, because if you actually use forsaken at 10 disgrace or lower I am afraid of you and you have transcended math.

Step 2, gain predictive power.

I couldn't be bothered to write out the equations myself (even the simple power reduction) so I fit the curves in wolfram. Here are the two equations, and you can find the cost and power of a forsaken for any given disgrace X. Testing with the values of my existing forsaken proves they work.

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

Step 3, derive useful information.

Obviously nobody uses 1 disgrace forsaken (It's possible to get one with the right ability) because they cost too much EE, and nobody uses 100 disgrace forsaken because they deal 0 damage. Is there anywhere along this relationship we can take advantage of? Well, there has to be. Because one is an exponential and the other is a polynomial, there's going to be some point of tradeoff between the beginning, where each point of disgrace is worth tons of EE and no power, and the end, where each point is worth almost no EE and increasingly large portions of power.

The quantity we want to track here is the relative power point drop per EE saved at any given disgrace, and that's just the ratio of the two functions above. By taking the derivative we can analyze how this relationship changes over the disgrace, and we see something interesting

View attachment 2521238

There's an inflection point right around 70 (specifically at 71.2) where the next point of power you spend is worth less total EE than the point before it. This is pretty useful, though it's not quite ready to be a final result due to some missing factors. There's also another point of interest in this function's derivative

View attachment 2521268

Here we can see the crossing we already identified, but we can also note an inflection point around 56.7 where the second derivative of EE/power begins to drop. Or in simpler terms, the point where power/EE is still growing, but its growth has begun to slow. You can keep taking derivatives and finding inflections forever, since this is an exponential (next one is at 42.3) but they become increasingly less meaningful.

Step 4, get breakpoints

We have a bunch of interesting numbers but they aren't quite ready to use in the game. For starters, disgrace is an integer and our values are decimals. More importantly, we need to account for the fact that the EE cost rounds up. If we pick a disgrace value that costs 12.1 EE, we'll lose 0.9 EE to rounding and get absolutely nothing from it. This isn't as big a deal if you have a large EE cost, but the smaller your costs get the more these losses are worth. These are easy enough to find with trial and error, you just have to search around and pick one.

• 70.1 -> 68 (8.97 EE)
• 56.7 -> 58 (17.95 EE)
• 42.3 -> 43 (50.77 EE

Step 5, summarize results.

If you want a low power chosen, try a disgrace of 68 for a cost of 9 EE and a strength of 64%. If you go any higher than that you're losing more raw power than you save in costs, so you better have some trick up your sleeve that makes power not matter like stacking BS amounts of buffs.

If you want someone who can hit harder than a low power chosen on a budget, try 58 D, 18 EE, 84% chosen. They cost twice as much for about a 30% power boost from the budget model, which could be the difference between getting a break and not.

If you want something you can throw in towards the high end while you're still trying to get those T3/T4 breaks, try a 43 D, 51 EE, 114% chosen. It's a positive power multiplier at a cost that might make you wonder why you don't just bring a commander that can grab them out of the air, but things like detonations and superior chosen can make forsaken shine where commanders can't. Plus you have to research them and this could get you going quicker.

Or if you want to use any of their T4 break abilities just leave disgrace as low as possible and blow 200 EE like a boss.

Interesting. My trial and error put it at 7 EE and 16 EE. Looks like I wasn't too far off.

 

[Nemo de Nemo]

Bug Report: Button to pass time dissappeared after negotiating with 2 chosen one after another within their bedrooms. Neither Imago Quickening or any cheats besides full upgrades (used at start of campain) will bring said button back; effectively putting the war in limbo where neither side can do...anything. Except harassing the other chosen I'm tempting, but that does nothing to remedy the timestop issue.
Save file has 32ish saves, the save in question is named "Flubber Ducky". Rest work fine (so far).
I also use the runtime/.bat executable method to run the game if that's related to anything.

 

[PregMageTD]

I love the idea of this game, but i admit i really don't feel smart enough for it. It's hard to keep everything straight without a cheat sheet. Still, when things *do* go well, it feels great so this is obviously not a game design issue. Well done CSDev!

 

[Roseys]

A bug I've noticed is in the campaign, say I captured/trained Purity and she's a forsaken now. In loop 2, I end up with purity again?

 

[MoarDakka123]

Is it the same Purity? It's unlikely, but unless there are actual measures against it, the game might have just spawned a very similar (near-identical, even) character.

 

[Roseys]

Is it the same Purity? It's unlikely, but unless there are actual measures against it, the game might have just spawned a very similar (near-identical, even) character.

Hm true, I'd just figure in campaign they'd try to prevent that especially if they ended up dead or captured.

The purity I have is
Koi (formerly known as Beautiful Princess Purity)
Real name: Shibahara Aiko

and the other purity is Kurita Omi, but names probably don't matter much - though I went and looked at a earlier save before corruption - both are beautiful princess purity.

 

[mathiau]

and the other purity is Kurita Omi, but names probably don't matter much

Different civilian names means their different people so this is something compeletely normal, if very unlikely

 

[Celerarity]

Would be nice to see some basic system in place to make it more preventable though, like looking at the portraits that have been pulled and trying to avoid them.

 

[Roseys]

^ I agree with that, right now I keep getting Purity and Silence's portraits.

 

[Anyone9999]

Someone saying here no one is using a 1% Disgrace Forsaken: But with broken psychometer, that opens a lot of interesting opportunities. (Caps Deployment cost at 100). My current Plan is, over several Loops, to get a forsaken down to 1 Disgrace to get an early drain going for +900 EE. Skip right past the Late-midgame at the cost of stalling a little bit in the midgame to get to 100 EE.

Noticed some bugs and some small issues:

Using "Apply chastity" when you approach a chosen crashes the game.

I have shift setting set to never yet I get the shift preference option when checking out chosen. Dunno if it is a save problem or an issue with 40c.


When a twin to your bait shows up, she becomes a twin to ALL your previous acquired Siblings of that family (Only have family relations without mothers/Fathers.) This is of course, um... weird and wrong.

Also, I have noticed the game can generate crazy large families of like 20 siblings. Just want to point out there should maybe be some sensible cap?

And lastly, I have a loop 5 fight against both a superior and animalistic chosen (The item offered was effectively +12 EE energy during the first 15 days. How could one refuse?). However, It really sucks to have to fight both for your first outing against a tier 3 chosen, especially because I have not yet fought an animalistic one and unlocking the third tier breaks already seems like a nightmare. Can we maybe have enforced single tier 3 chosen for loop 5? Granted, the exchange for that is only dealing with 190% trauma resolution as the only loop modifier, but still that's probably gonna get rough, considering I barely managed a full party break in the previous loop against 1 superior chosen on day 38, the last break during the final battle.

Anyway, really enjoying this game, would wish for a proper easy mode that is, in terms of difficulty, above cheat and below normal. (Maybe increased Influence for loop and later first arrival of Tier 2 and 3 chosen? Dunno.)

Keep up the good work!

 

[Xhak]

I think I pass. Matter of misconception, bad presentation. It`s not a management game, it`s math puzzle with progressive mechanics from idle games. Not my favorite. Plus far from the best interface, repeatable text, I don`t know how to enjoy 45 turns of orgy. Multiple times.

this.
it is not a game at all.
it is a spreadsheet VN.