Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 56] [CSDev]

[MoarDakka123]

This might be more a matter of taste, but I feel like "beneath one of my intellect" would work better. As is, I'm not even sure what [Red] is really even saying (it's in her first line, BTW).

EDIT: Oh, also, it should say "I-Idiot, did you think", or at least I think it should?

 

[dekeche]

So... I've just run into an odd bug, That I cannot reproduce - where the "examine" button did not return any text

I'm not sure exactly what caused it, and I cannot reproduce the issue after restarting the game, or restarting the battle. My guess is that there's some trigger condition with chosen fleeing the battle after an orgy that can trigger this, but again - cannot reproduce.

 

[Firer]

Can someone help me grasp the friendship concept? I was under the impression that I must break core vulnerabilities instead of minor vulnerabilities to make the chosen enemies but when I broke the Core Vulnerability of Cheer (Pleasure) she instead bonded over that with Paladin making them friends.

 

[Celerarity]

Can someone help me grasp the friendship concept? I was under the impression that I must break core vulnerabilities instead of minor vulnerabilities to make the chosen enemies but when I broke the Core Vulnerability of Cheer (Pleasure) she instead bonded over that with Paladin making them friends.

That's the right idea, but tiers matter. If Paladin's T1 minor was already broken before Cheer's T1 then they'll get closer. Also, sometimes chosen come pre-broken on some of the earlier tiers.

If the core from the same tier was broken before that tier's minor you should send us some screenshots or a save showing that.

 

[McHuman]

Can someone help me grasp the friendship concept? I was under the impression that I must break core vulnerabilities instead of minor vulnerabilities to make the chosen enemies but when I broke the Core Vulnerability of Cheer (Pleasure) she instead bonded over that with Paladin making them friends.

Order is important so you should provide screenshots or more info. If you broke Paladin's T1 Innocence first then Cheer's T1 Innocence they'll become friends, you need to break Cheer's T1 Innocence before/without breaking Paladin's T1 Innocence to make them enemies. If you did break Cheer's first and it still happened then that's probably a bug.

 

[Firer]

Order is important so you should provide screenshots or more info. If you broke Paladin's T1 Innocence first then Cheer's T1 Innocence they'll become friends, you need to break Cheer's T1 Innocence before/without breaking Paladin's T1 Innocence to make them enemies. If you did break Cheer's first and it still happened then that's probably a bug.

Ooh I see. I thought I need to break the core vuln of Cheer before I break the minor vuln of Cheer but I need to break her core vuln before I break any minor vuln of that circumstance on another girl?

So the fact that I broke the core vuln (Innocence) of Cheer before breaking any of her Vulns didnt matter. What was important was that I break Innocence on her before I break innocence on any of the other girls? But once that is done I can go ahead and break the minor Innocences on the other girls? Or should I first break the cores of every girl and then the minors on everyone?

 

[McHuman]

Ooh I see. I thought I need to break the core vuln of Cheer before I break the minor vuln of Cheer but I need to break her core vuln before I break any minor vuln of that circumstance on another girl?

So the fact that I broke the core vuln (Innocence) of Cheer before breaking any of her Vulns didnt matter. What was important was that I break Innocence on her before I break innocence on any of the other girls? But once that is done I can go ahead and break the minor Innocences on the other girls? Or should I first break the cores of every girl and then the minors on everyone?

Yeah, the only thing that matters when it comes to relationship is the Core Vulnerability on one Chosen and the Chosen with the associated Minor Vulnerability, none of the other vulnerabilities for those two Chosen matter for determining relationship. So if you want to make Cheer and Paladin enemies the only thing that matters is doing Cheer's Innocence Breaks before Paladin's, Innocence Breaks on the third Chosen are irrelevant as they'd have Innocence as a Significant Vulnerability which is irrelevant for relationships.

As for if you should focus on breaking Cores before Minors that really depends on what you want. Breaking Cores first to worsen relationships does give more EE, but you shouldn't let that force you into making poor decisions. If you just want them enemies then the T3 and T4 breaks will by default force their relationship to the highest level of Friendship or Rivalry regardless of their relationship, so if you just want them to end up as enemies then don't worry about T1 and T2 Break order.

If you do want the bonus EE though then you have to look at if breaking the Cores first is actually worth it. Core Breaks can be pretty hard, so for the T1 Break if you can do the Minor Break but the Core Break will take 2+ days, then do the Minor Break, T1 Friend vs Rival is only 4 EE and the T1 Break enables a Chosen to gen 2 EE a day, so if you'll need 2+ days to do a T1 Core Break then you get overall less EE than if you just did the Minor Break.

There is also the factor of arrival time to consider when deciding on how you want to manipulate relationships. Rivals give more EE and bigger Defiler+ and Orgy bonuses, but it also means they'll show up later to fights, which early in a loop can actually make things a bit harder. For example, in a recent loop I had a Chosen who was neutral to the second Chosen to arrive and they showed up just late enough where I either had to surround the first Chosen a second time before they arrived, getting a smaller surround due to no FEAR openings, or wait and only get 2 surrounds on her instead of 3 due to taking so long the battle ends by then. Had I made those two Chosen Rivals I would've been almost completely unable to attack that first Chosen until much later since those are just really bad conditions to try to fight in, but by making them friends that arrival gap closed enough where I could easily attack her and do more breaks, which was worth significantly more than I would've got from the 4 extra EE from a Rivalry. Of course, that's a bit more complicated of a factor that isn't really relevant for someone newer to the game, as situations like that only become problematic when you have Chosen super resistant to all circumstances, or after loop 1 when Chosen get damage reduction and trauma resolution buffs.

 

[Celerarity]

If you just want them enemies then the T3 and T4 breaks will by default force their relationship to the highest level of Friendship or Rivalry regardless of their relationship, so if you just want them to end up as enemies then don't worry about T1 and T2 Break order.

You sure about that? The docs say

The relationship between any given pair of Chosen is determined by counting up the core break events between them so far. If there are more positive than negative, then they're friends. If they're more negative than positive, then they're enemies. If the positive and negative are equal, then they'll have an unsteady friendship (with smaller bonuses). If there aren't enough possible core breaks remaining to change which one has the majority, then the relationship will be upgraded to an unbreakable one which has magnified bonuses or penalties.

 

[McHuman]

You sure about that? The docs say

Huh, I could've sworn I've had Chosen at the second level of Friend/Rival jump straight to the last level of the opposite relationship after a T3 and T4 break.

 

[Firer]

Can someone also tell me why I am not getting the T3 Innocence break here? T is more than G, right?

 

[McHuman]

Can someone also tell me why I am not getting the T3 Innocence break here? T is more than G, right?

View attachment 3074422

Chosen can only gain one T3 Break per day, and prioritizes the Vulnerability with the most unresolved trauma, so if you unlocked the T3 Dignity in the most recent fight then that's why you don't have T3 Innocence. If you didn't unlock any T3 Break for that Chosen in the most recent fight then that's a bug, as 170T is 1000x the 100G requirement for the T3 Break.

 

[Firer]

Chosen can only gain one T3 Break per day, and prioritizes the Vulnerability with the most unresolved trauma, so if you unlocked the T3 Dignity in the most recent fight then that's why you don't have T3 Innocence. If you didn't unlock any T3 Break for that Chosen in the most recent fight then that's a bug, as 170T is 1000x the 100G requirement for the T3 Break.

It could very well be that in the fight that got her over the treshold another T3 broke as well. But how do I get the innocence break now? Ive had multiple fights since then and its not happening

 

[dekeche]

You might want to upload a save of that then, as long as she has high enough unresolved trauma, you should be able to get a T3 break.

 

[McHuman]

It could very well be that in the fight that got her over the treshold another T3 broke as well. But how do I get the innocence break now? Ive had multiple fights since then and its not happening

That's a bug most likely then, cause even if multiple T3 Break requirements are hit in the same fight, one will trigger after every fight until they've all triggered. If you are at the threshold for one and it's not triggering then that's a bug and you should post the save here so CSdev or someone else can check it to see what's wrong.

 

[SuperSkippy]

Loop 17:
Day 1: I get Focus, send out Massacre with 4EE, and focus on lengthening the fight to get all 3 chosen in (success).

I unlock 1 objective of any type, and take the Control Center. I have enough to unlock High Rises as well but that is not terribly useful until I can get level 5 Circumstances, so I save up for

When the situation looks like this Day 2, I use Disintegration Vapor on Figment while summoning Breaker, the 4EE basic 1000% INJU commander.

Hymn's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)

Strategic Advantage: 1.45M
Fortification:       4122
A city objective may be seized!

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][ ][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

This should allow me to get both T2 Core breaks on these two and gain EE. I'll only take extra T1 breaks on Sphinx as I need to leave some unbroken on Figment for all 3 Chosen to be on the same cycle. I also research the other three 1EE techs, Eager Breeders (after testing I need one extra turn before Extermination), and all associated free techs, bringing me to 4EE after summoning Breaker.

Day 3:

Hymn's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)

Strategic Advantage: 1.49M
Fortification:       6797
A city objective may be seized!

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][ ][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][ ][X][ ][ ]

Which information do you want to view?

I earn almost no Trauma for day 2, as is a typical weakness of INJU commanders. Good thing I'm working on one that fixes that.

I need a break on Figment in order to proceed. I have 2 options: try Massacre or succeed easily with Scissa.

I try Massacre first, buying Weakness Sense and Eager Breeders to bring me below 10EE and avoid wasting the extra EE an 11 or 12EE deployment would cost. I need to weaken Sphinx's EXPO before striking at Figment to have a chance, but this setup may do too much trauma damage too quickly to do that. I quickly find that my suspicions were correct, so I reload to try plan B.

Since I don't need to hold 10EE or so, I go on a buying frenzy, getting all 2EE and 3EE techs (many of which are free) Remembering my new Item, I also pick up Human Collaborators (unlocks Dominance, bought for free, +5EE) This brings up a small non-crash bug, CSdev : If you regain EE from 0 after a buy, your screen temporarily shows no techs available. This can be fixed by going into any other menu and back. I use this version of free energy to get Nursery Hives (Vanity), Causal Projection (Ambition), and Vengeful Reconstitution (Spite), then summon Scissa to begin attacking Sphinx (weakening her EXPO to deal extra to Figment).

Day 4

Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)

Strategic Advantage: 2.48M
Fortification:       11.2k
Any city objective may be seized!

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][ ][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

Which information do you want to view?

The end of Day 3 was the final introduction scene, so today I'm expecting significant EE gains. I need to delay Hymn three times to get her on the same page with Sphinx and Figment. I plan to delay her once each day with Breaker: The first day I'll break T1 CON and whatever other T1 shows up besides CON, and day 5 I'll break T2 CON (this order provides extra EE because of the vignettes after day 4). Day 6 I'll let her shift down to DIG weakness, and day 7 I'll break DIG T2 which should have everyone together again. The Transmission Tower, which I can barely afford, is purchased. I also buy Versatility, just because it's free--it doesn't open up anything. I have 6EE.

Day 5

Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Figment's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)

Strategic Advantage: 2.50M
Fortification:       18.4k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][ ][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

Just checking in to say I have 34EE. The plan still seems good, so I'm sticking with it. I'm thinking Day 7 when I allow Hymn to switch, I'll summon Massacre again and try to build up massive trauma on Sphinx, Figment. I'll check in again after that. I also go ahead and decide on Passion Release for two reasons:

1) I know that once I have them all together the number of turns of Orgy will be key, and this is the largest turn increase I can buy.
2) Because of one of my items, it unlocks Impregnation, which allows for Assist Raid tomorrow, instantly getting me to 15EE per day.

I send out Breaker again and continue to follow the plan.
Day 6

Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Figment's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)

Strategic Advantage: 2.61M
Fortification:       30.4k

Day 6 I continue to stay on the plan. I train a garbage Forsaken in Assist Raid and Broadcast, gaining 10G Angst to all. This only gets me to +6EE due to the downtime action trauma modifier here also affecting the base rate at which Forsaken change to new actions. This shows up on all 3 as "Greater Sins Imminent" which--wasn't a thing I knew could happen? I thought if they all wanted to resolve higher level trauma, they would all do an action together, but it may have something to do with the unbalanced nature of the breaks.

Day 7:
[CODE]
Hymn's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)

Strategic Advantage: 2.71M
Fortification:       50.2k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][ ][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

Which information do you want to view?

I need to break Hymn's EXPO T2, then they will be on the same cycle. I check a few of my more efficient Forsaken to see if they can do this, and eventually just send Scissa out to do it.
Also I gain 15EE for the first time, not sure why. This resets everyone's PAIN trauma to 0 because of the high modifier.

Day 8

Hymn's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Sphinx's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)

Strategic Advantage: 3.67M
Fortification:       82.8k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

This should be the "small to medium Orgy" day if I play it correctly. The only real question that needs to be asked is do we start with Massacre or Scissa. I basically always try Massacre first. With 49 EE I go ahead and get Networked Consciousness as I consider how this is going to work. I try a few ways around massacre but nothing quite seems to get them all in an Orgy. So I'm going to bring in Scissa yet again and see what I can get, and since I don't need to hold on to a bunch of extra EE, I'll also purchase Soul Resonance (can't quite afford Genius->Reality Sealing).

My first attempts don't find a path here either. A few more things to try. The problem I keep running into is that Sphinx, or whichever Chosen I surround first, can't seem to get INJU increased during the third surround. So the 4th surround, where defense = 7, never happens. I do eventually get a measly 5 turn orgy using Massacre, but there's got to be something stronger, right? (There is something stronger, of course, but we aren't in the right weakness for it).

 

[McHuman]

This shows up on all 3 as "Greater Sins Imminent" which--wasn't a thing I knew could happen? I thought if they all wanted to resolve higher level trauma, they would all do an action together, but it may have something to do with the unbalanced nature of the breaks.

Were all 3 doing trauma resolution actions together on that day? Cause if so that's why they were all stuck on Greater Sins Imminent. To my knowledge if Chosen are resolving trauma together then they can only do the highest trauma resolution action they all have available, and trauma resolution actions are gated behind Vulnerability Breaks and Unresolved Trauma. Since between all 3 Chosen the only Break they share between them is the T1 DIG Break, when resolving trauma together they can only perform the T1 SHAM Resolution Action, even if they all independently meet the requirements for a T2 Resolution Action (MOR and CON for Hymm, CON and DIG for Sphinx, and DIG for Figment). It's also why you started generating 15 EE after doing the T2 DIG Break on Hymm, as with that all 3 now share the T2 DIG Break and thus can perform the T2 SHAM Resolution Actions together (either that or on that day they just weren't resolving trauma together).

 

[jaw_bone]

So. I have picked up the game again after a while. I remember nothing. Sorry in advance for the dumb questions.

I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.

I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!

My first dumb questions:

1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?

2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?

 

[dekeche]

So. I have picked up the game again after a while. I remember nothing. Sorry in advance for the dumb questions.

I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.

I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!

My first dumb questions:

1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?

2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?

1) Not necessarily, but it does depend on the distortions. Distortions that share a trait are typically easier, distortions that don't can be a lot harder. I typically try for only 2 distortions, leaving the third chosen as a wild card to help get orgies started. So doing 2 temp chosen, and 1 aversion is going to be a lot harder than just 1 temp, 1 aversion. Not impossible mind you, just difficult. I'll also add that there are some synergies when doing the same distortion on each chosen (such as negotiating with each chosen on the same day).

2) In most cases, Your probably right. I can think of one possible exception though; The Unicorn Lard Item yields +1 EE on days without a battle, and ensures that the next chosen will show in the next battle. So why not train a forsaken during your downtime?

 

[jaw_bone]

1) Not necessarily, but it does depend on the distortions. Distortions that share a trait are typically easier, distortions that don't can be a lot harder. I typically try for only 2 distortions, leaving the third chosen as a wild card to help get orgies started. So doing 2 temp chosen, and 1 aversion is going to be a lot harder than just 1 temp, 1 aversion. Not impossible mind you, just difficult. I'll also add that there are some synergies when doing the same distortion on each chosen (such as negotiating with each chosen on the same day).

2) In most cases, Your probably right. I can think of one possible exception though; The Unicorn Lard Item yields +1 EE on days without a battle, and ensures that the next chosen will show in the next battle. So why not train a forsaken during your downtime?

Thank you for replying!

So this is my current list of distortions. I have a different one set up on each one... I tried my best to not screw myself with minor/core breaks. It's the start of Day 16, and so far I've managed to avoid making anyone into friends (I'm trying to keep everyone rivals as much as possible):



Do you think it'd be worthwhile removing the plan from someone for the wildcard you suggested?

That suggestion about the Unicorn Lard sounds great, although I think it's too late to change the item for this loop. If I make it to Loop 3 I will change it... if I have it.

 

[dekeche]

If you are having difficulty, it might be worthwhile to drop the distortion on Moppet. Negotiation parse well with aversion or tempation, and I think Upgrade has a nice punisher ability, so it's worthwhile to keep them on a distortion path that minimizes their disgrace.

On the other hand, I do like having a low-cost tempt forsaken to throw at early game problems, so I think the increased difficulty is probably worth it in this case.