It...... it worked. Thank you, I never thought it would be how many folders in it was. It was about 6 folders deep btw.
Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 56] [CSDev]
Try getting a commander that is like 4~5 turns and 2~3 captures
start on a magical girl, do all the surround actions on her with the comander, then throw the commander at another girl and while that is going capture the first one again, you'll get a bunch of turns and get to do even much more damage
if the timing is good you can surround girl 2 a second time and then girl 1 a third time
The more levels in stuff you get during a day the more damage you deal, in massive levels of scaling
You need to get effective with using
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to reach vulnerability breaks.Hey all! I've been trying to make a breakthrough in my understanding of how to make useful Forsaken. I've read tons of comments (lots of good stuff from SuperSkippy), the wiki, and the included text files, and I am trying to put together a plan for a fresh loop 1 set of chosen. Here's the preview and info:
The highlighted punishers are the ones I'm thinking I want to target because they seem good for the use cases I'm picturing, which are:
Vendetta - High-EE cost breeder aiming to give better Forsaken in future loops a good HATE buff. I'm thinking I should aim for her current 45% with a Negotiation distortion, though I don't know how I would bring down her cataclysmic 500 EE cost (as far as I know, disgrace is all that affects EE cost?) I am okay with not getting a personal HATE damage buff for her from a different Distortion since I don't need her to do big damage, just to distribute her buff to later Forsaken. I plan to hold onto her for a long time
Silhouette - Low-EE INJ specialist that I can use for T2 INJ breaks and maybe lower-cost T4 INJ breaks, which would be nice since I have never actually been able to successfully T4 INJ break over my previous 3-loop campaign. Gonna break all her vulns as best I can with no distortion since I'm not confident in being able to do a negotiation+temptation on two Chosen at the same time in a timely manner. Not a long term keep
Iris - High-EE Breeder and Hypnotist also giving future Forsaken good bonuses. Going for Temptation without breaking further than T2 DIG to maintain buff strength, but I'm not quite sure how to accomplish that if I have to orgy at some point. I plan to hold onto her for a long time
Does this plan sound reasonable and achievable for someone with low-mid skill and understanding of the game? Am I missing out on better uses for these three? Am I going too hard on loop 1 (probably)? How should I actually pull this off if temptation and negotiation are counterproductive to activate? Any input would be big appreciated!
The highlighted punishers are the ones I'm thinking I want to target because they seem good for the use cases I'm picturing, which are:
Vendetta - High-EE cost breeder aiming to give better Forsaken in future loops a good HATE buff. I'm thinking I should aim for her current 45% with a Negotiation distortion, though I don't know how I would bring down her cataclysmic 500 EE cost (as far as I know, disgrace is all that affects EE cost?) I am okay with not getting a personal HATE damage buff for her from a different Distortion since I don't need her to do big damage, just to distribute her buff to later Forsaken. I plan to hold onto her for a long time
Silhouette - Low-EE INJ specialist that I can use for T2 INJ breaks and maybe lower-cost T4 INJ breaks, which would be nice since I have never actually been able to successfully T4 INJ break over my previous 3-loop campaign. Gonna break all her vulns as best I can with no distortion since I'm not confident in being able to do a negotiation+temptation on two Chosen at the same time in a timely manner. Not a long term keep
Iris - High-EE Breeder and Hypnotist also giving future Forsaken good bonuses. Going for Temptation without breaking further than T2 DIG to maintain buff strength, but I'm not quite sure how to accomplish that if I have to orgy at some point. I plan to hold onto her for a long time
Does this plan sound reasonable and achievable for someone with low-mid skill and understanding of the game? Am I missing out on better uses for these three? Am I going too hard on loop 1 (probably)? How should I actually pull this off if temptation and negotiation are counterproductive to activate? Any input would be big appreciated!
Yeah, sounds like a good plan! The easiest and quickest way to bring down their cost to something more reasonable is DIG breaks, which will increase their starting Disgrace. Even the T1 break will have a significant effect on their cost (every 10 Disgrace cuts the cost in half) while having a generally moderate effect on their Punishers. If these were my starting Chosen, I'd have essentially the same plan. These will of course also reduce the power of their Punishers, so considering these tradeoffs carefully is important--how much EE do you think you'll have at the end of a Loop to throw out those Punishers? Base your decisions around that.
Note that to put these Forsaken in these Punisher positions you'll have to either raise their Obedience to 50% or distort them. An Aversion Distortion will work very well for Vendetta, but using Iris in the Hypnotist position will require also raising her Deviancy, and making Silhouette usable for T1/T2 INJU breaks will require raising her Disgrace significantly from where Aversion would have her end up. You can accomplish these through careful breaks during Combats or training afterwards. Personally, I'd use Aversion on Silhouette too because of the ease of triggering it and just devote myself to training her later.
That +Consent will be incredibly helpful with you building Megalomaniac Chosen, since they can refuse even Obedience/INJU trainings.
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An idea occurred to me: I remember a while back there being the comment about the lack of ability to have draconic chosen in the game. If the dev ever ends up adding another tier of Chosen to the game, I could see the addition on the Animalistic side of things being Mythical Beasts which could include stuff like dragons, griffins, unicorns, etc. and then as a counterpoint on the undead side of the tree you could have alien/eldritch. Things not of this world in one way or another.
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It sounds like you're not utilizing commanders, like DeviantArtaaa and Superskippy said. Loop 1 plays out pretty similar with a few variations depending on pre-broken minors and weakness distribution but basically:
Day 1-2: Only one Chosen, get to 100 in as many circumstances (other than Fear) as possible, and do a 2-3 turn surround on the turn before the battle ends in order to buy more turns. You do this because the second and third chosen show up after a fixed number of turns and the sooner they show up, the quicker you can get more EE.
Day 3 (maybe Day 2 if you're really lucky): Switch to the new chosen as soon as they arrive and hammer their weakest stat to get it above 200 before the battle ends. Don't forget to surround Chosen #1 the turn before the battle ends.
Days 4-6: Focus on the chosen with lower Angst (probably Chosen #2) and do the same thing you were doing days 1-2.
Day 7 (6 if you've gotten good surrounds): Same as Day 3 but with Chosen #3.
Day 8+ is like days 4-6, just focus on the weakest chosen while you gather EE.
For upgrades, I usually go Fast Breeders, Psychic Reading, Wide Deployment, Focus, Enhanced Polymorphism, Weakness Sense in that order and then Perception, Patience, and Cunning in any order. That will let you buy a 5 point commander who lasts for 4 turns and can capture twice. You CAN achieve a lot with a 4 point commander (3 turns, 2 captures) but let's play it safe.
In total you'll need to have spent 16 EE* (not factoring in Tomorrow's Newspaper) on upgrades and have another 5 for the commander, which means on Day 11 you should be ready to strike. Build your commander and attack the Chosen who has the most points in HATE and ANTI (the first and third lines on the right side). Grind/Pummel (whichever has fewer points), then the other, then Caress, then Humiliate. If they aren't at 100 points in Hate, Plea, and Anti, restart and try hitting whichever of those three didn't hit 100 first. Experiment.
Once a second Chosen shows up, capture them and do the same thing. Before the battle ends, re-surround the first Chosen you targeted. This may mean you aren't able to do all four actions to Chosen #2, in that case, prioritize Humiliate because they're just there for the Expose bonus to your real target.
Do the same ability rotation on Chosen #1. Before the surround ends, make sure to re-surround Chosen #2 and you can use any spare turns to work on them a little. Then, before their surround ends, re-surround Chosen #1 for the third time.
Because of the randomness, you may have to try targeting a different Chosen or switch up ability order, etc. Just play around but this should allow you to get some breaks starting on Day 11.
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Just a note, do not rule out Silhouette as a Publicist, doing a T4 DIG break will result in a Forsaken with pretty high Disgrace which can be bad unless you want them to be a low EE early days Forsaken, so having a Forsaken that can lower Disgrace when you want to do higher cost Temptation/Rampancy Forsaken is pretty valuable. Especially for Rampancy Forsaken since their variable cost means a low disgrace one can be good in the early days without falling off at more expensive deployments.
Thank you very much for the reassurance and advice! I ended up doing something similar to my original plan last night, except I went for double negotiation instead of negotiation+temptation since I thought the logic that applied to Vendetta should apply to Iris as well and I would naturally get the deviancy I needed to use her hypnotist punisher. I finished the loop capturing all three on day 36 (if I remember correctly) and began training, and that's when I realized that your evaluation of aversion suiting Vendetta and being good for Silhouette too was spot on lol. I spent all my days up to 51 trying to get Iris and Vendetta into the 50% hostility range (50% deviancy for Iris too) while keeping disgrace below 20% and without putting more exp into INJU, and Silhouette to sufficient obedience to use the injury punisher. The result seems generally good and I have all my corruptions just about where I want them, but the exp ranges and styles are not good yet, but I'm hoping/assuming the trainer sessions will eventually get them where they need to be:
Going to get into loop 2 later and see if I can actually use these girls after all this effort lol
You are right that I've missed out on a tool to get a rampancy Forsaken with staying power into late loop- I'll have to see if I can either salvage Silhouette when/if the time comes or find some other way, or just deal with it. Thanks for the pointer!
noticed a missing word on distract, between "so that" and "be completely visible"
Reaper's Action: Distract
Reaper dances to entice the Thralls, twirling, kicking, and bending over in her cloak so that would be completely visible if not for the occult symbols hanging in the way.
Reaper's Action: Distract
Reaper dances to entice the Thralls, twirling, kicking, and bending over in her cloak so that would be completely visible if not for the occult symbols hanging in the way.
Okay, this helped immensely at getting to +6 EE per day, And I'm able to get the T1/2 breaks *most* of the time when I'm trying to go for them (One of my girls appears to have almost-immunity to pleasure damage, I'm giving up on that). But what does the overall strategy look like after this? the 5-cost commanders seem to drop off after a week or so, am I supposed to be using them every time and accepting the +1/+2 EE a day for upgrades, or is it better to not use a commander for a few days so I can afford the upgrades to make better commanders later on?
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Just to be clear you aren't using a 5 energy commander all the way are you? Also make sure you have You should use the 5 energy commander(4 turn + 1 Captures) commander first on the chosen who is easiest to break which you can find through reloading saves. Usually it's the one with minor Morality (Unless she has core confidence) Also avoid starting on Core confidence chosen. If you play your moves right you should have enough energy to get the Intelligence and make a +5 Turn and +1 capture commander to use on a different chosen. Use your extra energy to get the Extermination->Evacuation upgrades(Prioritise extermination which is under Mania and then evac Under Lust) if you can. Should be able to break her. After that get genius and make a 6 turn +1 Capture commander to break the last chosen and get more ext/evac if you couldn't before. After that prioritise Networked consciousness and Passion Release upgrades. Also determination to get +2 captures on your commander.
Few more tips for you if you want:
- While trying to deal most damage Inju->Hate should be your priority before Plea/Expo.
-This usually translates to Pummel->Grind->Caress->Humiliate as the best combo to be used early on the first chosen you target. Make sure you can get a level 1 pleaasure before the capture ends to get most openings which is 7 usually.
-For the second chosen make sure to get expo and enough trauma for a second surround
-Now about the breaks, make sure to wait a bit before doing a defiler action. Pay attention to the damage you are dealing and if it's viable to get level 3 Hate/Plea. Inseminate and force orgasm are the best defiler actions to be triggered. If you can inseminate go for it but for force orgasm it may be good to see if you can get level 3 hate first or not. Make sure the defiler is triggered for a decent ammount of turns
- When the first chosen is surrounded for like 11 turns in the end and you have used up all your actions/Are waiting for defilers, it's actually worth it to get some openings on the third chosen through basic moves(At most 4 openings, 5 if you are lucky) and then surround her when only one turn is left on the first chosen. During this surround just focus on using threaten(If you inseminated)/Slime(If you force orgasmed) on the first chosen. This way it's quite possible to get the chosen to millions of trauma enough to get +5 energy.
- Speaking of + 5 energy, that should be your goal if you can get +2 energy generation from each chosen. After that get networked consciousness and passion release and get an orgy going with a 6 turn +2 capture commander.
I'd suggest a long Inseminate on whichever one you feel like you can do that easiest. You need surprisingly few turns to get them to +5EE, just like 8-12 or so. It's better if you can hit two Chosen at once, but if you can't don't worry about it. You want to get one to 100M Trauma in one area and earn a T3 break if possible, which is generally possible with a 5-turn 2-capture Commander, so you'll want Intelligence. You'll also want the 5EE Extermination and Evacuation upgrades. You should not be trying to build up to 100M Trauma over multiple fights as that's generally wasteful. If you can't find a way to earn additional breaks or get T3 breaks prepared then you're almost certainly wasting EE by sending out a Commander.
The one that's Core INN, you may be able to get further if you try to Inseminate in the second capture and then get a third capture before Extermination as this will do significant PLEA damage. But if not, again, don't worry, as the next phase will make that easy.
You really want to break for Networked Consciousness as soon as possible. I'd recommend prioritizing it over Genius. But once you have it, pick up Genius, Passion Release, and Determination and send out a 3-capture 6-turn Commander, aiming for an Orgy to open everything up.
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Like the two previous replies said, a general beginner Loop 1 flow looks like:
- Get to 5 point commander (covered in previous post).
- Break as many Core T1s as possible by Day 15 as you get a one-time bonus of 2EE per during the interview event.
- Pick up Intelligence for 5EE so you can make 7 point commanders (5 turns, two captures).
- At this point, you should be able to get T2 breaks using the strategy of "capture Chosen 1, do all four moves, capture Chosen 2, do all four moves, re-capture Chosen 1 before Extermination is complete, do all four moves, hit Chosen 3 enough that you can do at least a one turn capture on the turn Chosen 1 would be free, re-capture Chosen 1 and 2. You might even be able to get Defiler+ actions going.
- Experiment here. Sometimes the Chosen just show up too far apart or you want to hit Chosen A but Chosen B is the first to show up and they're very trauma resistant. In that case, you can try waiting for Chosen C to arrive or try targeting Chosen C first. This game is all about saving every day and restarting battles or reloading if things don't work out as hoped. You may also just need to wait until you get one of the Evacuation or Extermination upgrades.
- Rush Networked Consciousness. This upgrade lets you do an action on the turn you capture/surround instead of having to wait until the next turn to give orders. It costs 20EE itself and requires: Coordinated Deployment and Eager Breeders (2 EE each); Lust, Hunger, and Anger (3 EE each); Causal Projection and Human Collaborators (5 EE each); and Dominance (10 EE). The 2 EE and 5 EE upgrades give Evacuation and Extermination buffs while the other four don't do anything immediately useful so try to prioritize those.
- This also applies to step 3, but don't be afraid to have days where you just go in commander-less, hit a chosen a few times, do a three turn surround, and call it a day. If you're earning 6 EE per day, make a 7 point Commander, and don't get any new breaks, you just put yourself back 1 EE when you could have just "skipped" a day and bought 12 points of upgrades the next day.
- You should be able to afford Networked Consciousness around Day 20-30 and, at that point, you can do everything. Once you have Determination and Genius you can make 12-14 point commanders (5-6 turns, 3 captures). The in-game tooltip will say you need something stronger but this is enough to get every single break (other than the actual T4 breaks which require Punisher-class upgrades to trigger and CON T3 which requires an upgraded commander) and I rarely use anything else. So at this point, just work on T3 and T4 breaks, try to pick up Reality Sealing as it's a minor boost, but otherwise just grab whatever and work towards end-game.
Something the game doesn't tell you explicitelly (I think) is that the mg will start flying when they break free after a capture that happens after extermination is over. If you capture a girl at 139/140 extermination, then once that capture is over you'll be able to capture her again
Once you have a commander with 2 captures this means you can do 1 at the start on a mg, then capture another mg, then the first mg again before extermination is done, then capture girl 2 and girl 1 again once extermination is almost done
If girls 1 and 2 have say, 10 opening, and extermination is at 139/140 you can capture girl 1, extermination goes to 140/140 but battle doesn't end. 9 turns later you capture girl 2, girl 1 gets free, battle continues because girl 2 is capture, girl 2 now says flight inminent. Then 9 turns later you can capture girl 1 again (should have a massive opening), she'll be "flight inminent" and girl 2 will be flying.
Getting to 3 captures on 1 girl is how you get to a lot of trauma and therefore the breaks
Lining up a 5 or higher turn orgy also gets enough trauma to get all or most t3 breaks on all girls too if you can get it to happen
Once you have a commander with 2 captures this means you can do 1 at the start on a mg, then capture another mg, then the first mg again before extermination is done, then capture girl 2 and girl 1 again once extermination is almost done
If girls 1 and 2 have say, 10 opening, and extermination is at 139/140 you can capture girl 1, extermination goes to 140/140 but battle doesn't end. 9 turns later you capture girl 2, girl 1 gets free, battle continues because girl 2 is capture, girl 2 now says flight inminent. Then 9 turns later you can capture girl 1 again (should have a massive opening), she'll be "flight inminent" and girl 2 will be flying.
Getting to 3 captures on 1 girl is how you get to a lot of trauma and therefore the breaks
Lining up a 5 or higher turn orgy also gets enough trauma to get all or most t3 breaks on all girls too if you can get it to happen
The game does tell you, if you look at the right side with the portraits and stats the "Openings: X/Y" stat will be replaced with something to the effect of "Flight Imminent" when you capture them after the extermination is over.
Yeah, but it took me a while to understand what "Flight inminent" meant and another while to understand when it happens.
Is there a decent strategy for farming the t4 breaks? I'm getting 80% increases across the board per day, I feel like I could be doing better
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A few things to keep in mind about T4 farming:
- % gained is based on Circumstance ranks when they use their T3 adaptation.
- Circumstance gained is always enough to get them to the next rank.
- If they're at 1001 Circumstance, they'll gain 999. If they're at 999, they'll only gain 1.
- Fantasize, the PLEA adaptation, is capped at 4 uses per battle and heavily reduces trauma damage taken, which makes getting long openings harder.
- A Chosen won't use the same adaptation back to back but can use two different ones in a row.
Normally I use an X/3 commander and Capture Chosen 1 and then Chosen 2. Once Chosen 1 breaks free, they should be above 1k Circ in their t3 vulnerability so next turn they'll use their adaptation and jump to 10k. Immediately* (you can sometimes wait a turn because of the "no back to back rule" but if they heal you'll need to retry) surround them and throw them into a Defiler action. Go back to working on Chosen 2 and then Chosen 3 and do the same thing of letting them use one adaptation to get to 10k and then throwing them into a Defiler or Defiler+. Maybe even an Orgy at some point. You should be able to get ~20 turn surrounds after the second capture and be close to done with extermination and evacuation. Capture one Chosen and do whatever while the other two do their adaptations. Before that Chosen gets free, grab another, and do the same thing with the last one. You should be able to get pretty high % gains that way.
For CON you just have to make an upgraded commander with lots of captures and a decent amount of turns to get initial INJU high. I'll defer more strategy on this one to someone else because I try to wait for Completion and hit all four circumstances to that I don't hit diminishing returns from unbalanced Circumstance levels but better players just focus INJU I think and they can explain how that works better than I can.
I view this differently from others here in that I always divide this into two parts. The Chosen use Self-Destruct ONLY when Captured, and they use the other three moves ONLY when free. So I divide this phase of the Loop into those two parts and treat them separately. You can do them in either order, but I like to raise Self-Destruct first.
1) Raising Self-Destruct is all about maximizing damage to INJU with your 3 captures. In Loop 1 I use a Commander with INJU punisher, 6 Duration, maximum captures (3 or 5 depending on your upgrades, but if you don't have 5 make that a priority). Cost is 44EE, so you should be getting +15EE vs each Chosen to utilize this. This Commander concentrates on a single Chosen, the one you ambush at the beginning. Capture her. When a second Chosen comes in, do not Capture that one but instead get her to 2 openings (3 surround actions with Networked Consciousness) using standard attacks. Hit her with Pummel and Humiliate. When the first Chosen is free, Surround her (not Capture) and Grind, Caress, Humiliate. Specific order of these actions depends on when the second Chosen comes in, but it's fine to not be 100% optimal here. After the first Chosen is free from the Surround action, Use your second Capture on her. She'll stay captured for 1 turn and then break free. When she does, immediately use your third (and final) Capture on her.
This will total at least (90 + 120 + 150)% Punisher Effectiveness for INJU, and often more than this, meaning you don't have to repeat this process too often to get to 1000% for a Chosen.
2) Raising the other three Punisher Effectiveness is all about long amounts of time that Chosen aren't being surrounded and have high levels of Circumstance damage. This is, I feel, best achieved with a standard Commander (no Punishers, Defilers, or Suppressors), 6 Duration, 3 Captures (or 5 Captures only if you can also take Flight), costing 14EE (or 54EE with 5 Captures and Flight). Your goal is to setup a quick, short Orgy before Extermination is achieved. I like to look carefully at my info screen and set things up in the following way:
a) No Chosen comes in on Turn 7, the turn that the first Chosen is released
b) No two Chosen come in on directly adjacent turns
This isn't always possible depending on how your Friendships/Enemies have developed but it's ideal if you can have both of these things true. Anyway, you set up an Orgy with this Commander by Capturing first (Ambush on), Surrounding, using standard tactics and never letting any Chosen free to do their T3 moves. When the Orgy is done, most likely, Extermination is complete, but you still have another turn because of Vengeful Reconstitution.
In that turn, Surround whichever Chosen has the most openings and start doing one of your Defilers against them. The others will use their T3 tactics but you should have quite a few Surround turns. And once you've Surrounded one, you'll have even more turns against the others because their FEAR will now be adding to their openings. During this stage of the battle, though, you should only have one at a time Surrounded so that both the other Chosen are free to do their T3 moves. The exception is that when you are down to "Escaping next turn" you should capture one of the other Chosen and again open with a Defiler. Repeat on the third Chosen once the second Chosen is "Escaping next turn".
Your goal is to draw out this phase of the fight as long as possible. If you brought a 5-capture Commander with Flight you can Capture them again when they're Flying once you've done all 3 Surrounds, but if not it's okay, you'll only lose a bit of effectiveness. This method easily nets increases of over 100% across the board to every PE except INJU.
Whichever you start with, once you get to 1000% PE , send out the Commander with the proper Punisher equipped and get those breaks! If you've been effective with Orgy before it's likely that once you get your first T4 break you're gaining +50EE from that Chosen and you can try out different combinations of extremely powerful Commanders (hitting all 4 Circumstances) when you have enough extra EE to do so. This phase of the game takes a bit longer than the T2 and T3 breaks, I find.
I mostly just focused on going for most time capturing the girls, getting as big capture openings as possible on the start of battle then when the extermination runs out capture them one by one so they do their actions as many times as possible