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Shiro15

Member
Mar 15, 2019
146
858
It's a bit more than a hentai doujin and certainly mone than a few paragraphs.

For instance, some numbers I recall off the top of my head, Noire, the sheepgirl from the baths, was 200 pages. Tatsuya, the male Kiyoko type character Jstar was working on, was commissioned at 20k words ( but is quite a bit longer, apparently).

We had this discussion a month ago, and I found a website that had a bunch of both professional and semi-professional authors on it, and most of them recommend doing around 1000 words per day.

So a month to write a very basic character with few to no variables, a month for review and editing, and another month to make it through the coding queue - three months from farm to table?

Note: I'm 100% guessing, I have no expertise, just what I've observed from being around these games for awhile.


From what Ive read, part of the issue is with visibility of the content. A character that accounts for a bunch of variables and differences might have a scene that's 200 words but took 300-400 to type because of the parsers they work with. So often it can look like there's less there than there is.
The last thing I wrote professionally came out to about 12kwords. I wrote it over the course of about 2 weeks. (It might've been about 9 or 10 days.) If you include the editing and waiting for feed back in total it would have been about a month start to finish before it was published . So, I would agree with your estimate.
 

Daken9

Active Member
Apr 28, 2017
658
4,799

hater45

Member
Mar 7, 2017
131
339
It's a bit more than a hentai doujin and certainly mone than a few paragraphs.

For instance, some numbers I recall off the top of my head, Noire, the sheepgirl from the baths, was 200 pages. Tatsuya, the male Kiyoko type character Jstar was working on, was commissioned at 20k words ( but is quite a bit longer, apparently).

We had this discussion a month ago, and I found a website that had a bunch of both professional and semi-professional authors on it, and most of them recommend doing around 1000 words per day.

So a month to write a very basic character with few to no variables, a month for review and editing, and another month to make it through the coding queue - three months from farm to table?

Note: I'm 100% guessing, I have no expertise, just what I've observed from being around these games for awhile.


From what Ive read, part of the issue is with visibility of the content. A character that accounts for a bunch of variables and differences might have a scene that's 200 words but took 300-400 to type because of the parsers they work with. So often it can look like there's less there than there is.
You say 3 months yet it takes 5x longer due to them not having the best coder(s) around. It took Gedan YEARS to do space combat in TiTs. The problem is that when your team consist of friends you are not hard on them so they don't produce content that is either up to a standard or delivered on time. Look at Dizzy, she done for months but the team sat on doing the JS conversion for a long time for ???? reason when everyone knew that flash was going to die.
 

Noone202

Active Member
Jan 18, 2020
734
1,172
Well, a quick google search pulls up...around 80k a year, from several sources, for a single programmer. So certainly more than the ones of this project make.

As for years...dunno? Technically I think someone is a professional when working a job that requires a degree or equivalent experience.
So does TiTs and CoC count as "Equivalent experience" or do we need to get a GoFundMe page and send the Devs a porn creation scholarship into Harvard to get their degree?
 

Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
1,167
1,842
So does TiTs and CoC count as "Equivalent experience" or do we need to get a GoFundMe page and send the Devs a porn creation scholarship into Harvard to get their degree?

Equivalent experience means either, 1. Hours Worked or 2. Money Earned

for example,
my highschool instead of getting your grade 12 education, you instead could get a job - your hours worked then could be transferred to credits towards graduation

alot of work places accept 'Equivalent experience' over degrees or education
 

BlacJak

Member
Sep 3, 2018
122
423
It got announced like 5 years ago. Never came out despite meeting its kick starter goal and having a patreon. From my understanding the artist randomly abodoned the project.
Yeah, the artist, Lasterk, had so they had some complications with that, but they disappeared again some time early 2019.
 

Shiro15

Member
Mar 15, 2019
146
858
If the team for CoC 2 is working on this game full time, then I would say their output is kind of slow or at the very least mismanaged. Which since this started as a two man project, and they are constantly having artistic direction conflicts that has seen at least two people leave the project (I only know that Berwyn and Eryka original creators left) I can't imagine them working in the most efficient way.

It should be noted that most indie games only have 1-3 writers. I know most indie games aren't a text based porn game, but it seems every reoccurring character in this game has their owner writer who is working specifically on that character. This is honestly a terrible idea imo. It would honestly be a nightmare to write character interactions or give the characters a meaningful role in the games story. This is probably why every character feels so disconnected from the main story or don't really interact with the other party members unless you're having a threesome. This is basically the equivalent of playing the telephone game.

But hey who cares its just a porn game. It's not like its a product that is being funded and bought by other people. Oh wait...well I didn't buy it.
 
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zwagon

Newbie
Oct 28, 2017
24
61
If most of the fans seem to like it and Tobs is just writing to please his yes men. Then fine. I don't mind being in the minority in this case. I think the kitsune stuff is mediocre at best. I kinda wish it was more meaningful to interact with them, as the Kitsune content seems to be the only thing ever getting an update.
Don't fool yourself, Tobs writes for himself. For a long period of time, he refused to be a paid member of the team.
 

ankhtar

Active Member
Jan 24, 2020
764
1,875
I suppose Kiyoko fans can just be glad that she isn't as adored as Brienne, otherwise Savin would also want to put his cucking paws on her.
That's not a purposeful typo for once, I mean it literally.
 

Kroenen12

Member
May 25, 2020
454
2,611
Do people know what poly means?
uhhhh in real life?
No
Me dumb
1658551289110.png
ingame?
Poly= open relationship/fuck around
"Monogamy and polygamy are equally accepted among the minotaurs; it is not uncommon for a female to couple with multiple males or for a male to have a 'harem' of multiple females, though many pair and remain monogamous for life."
Screenshot_3.png
Screenshot_1.png
 

Lance Lot

Member
Sep 13, 2017
207
234
Not trying to take a shot at the devs here. I'm just saying that the numbers seem pretty big for a game that gives out a patch like this:

  • New win scene for the Crazy Horses of Harvest Valley (by BubbleChaser)
  • New Codex: Spells & Magic
  • Lyla’s talks have been edited for worldbuilding consistency
  • Quin has more dialogue and options in various quests
  • Many bugfixes
  • Vitruvius has a new bust (by DCL)
Tbf the devs were already coding Berwyn stuff weren't they? They jsut released this to not hold the patch for too long.
Besides, this is a public patch, those are always smaller. This one was still smaller than those normally are, but they expected Berwyn to ship with it.
 

MoneyMan181

Active Member
Sep 6, 2019
758
6,183
Tbf the devs were already coding Berwyn stuff weren't they? They jsut released this to not hold the patch for too long.
Besides, this is a public patch, those are always smaller. This one was still smaller than those normally are, but they expected Berwyn to ship with it.
They've said they've been coding it for like a month now(maybe longer idk). Regardless, a good amount of updates are still pretty damn small comparative to the amount of work that should be getting done in theory. One update I can think of was just adding the wayfort maids, corrupted lupines, a new item, and some busts. Pretty small for a calculated collective 200 hours of work time, no?
 
Jul 22, 2017
23
72
Back when I wrote for the CoC Mod (did stuff for UE and for HGG) I legit wrote a new armor that came with new masturbation scenes, a new win scene and stuff like that. It was over 6k words just for those bits and while I dont recall specifically how long it took to write, I know hours wise it was likely less than a week, and that was while I was working and living in an abusive household where I never felt safe.
 

smithsmithsmith

Active Member
Aug 16, 2018
610
1,416
So then get a real coder so that this shit isn't a bottleneck. Get another reviewer so this shit isn't a bottleneck. You said it yourself, this game is making quite a bit of money. Moreso than most indie projects. The game is making almost 400k a year. That's just under 5 people making 80k a year. 2k less from each person solves that issue, so it's 78k.
If they were to hire another coder wouldn't that be closer to a 16k paycut to each of them if they were hiring said new coder for 80k? Or if they instead split the money evenly amongst the now 6 of them it would be a 13.4k ish paycut. Unless you're proposing the new guy only gets 10k a year. Dunno about you but I'd be pretty cheesed off if I was suddenly told I was losing between 20% and 16% of my pay.
 
Jan 18, 2018
89
930
Words. Edit: Post was deleted so here's an attempt at paraphrasing:
"There are 9 members of staff, so when the money is split they don't make all that much money, even before tax.
They produce a lot of content when you compare it to big games like Being a DIK (and others) considering how long they take to update.
[In a separate post:] I read that 1000 words/day is a good pace for a professional writer, idk how accurate that is. At 1000words/day it'd take about 50 days per writer to produce a large piece of content."
Staff writers: Savin, Skow, Tobs ( ), Wsan
Coders: Upcastdrake, Balak(?), [Edit: Leek?]
Artists: Moira is staff or heavily commissioned, anyone else is rare commissions
Commissioned writers: B, Alypia (recent), Jstar (recent)
Very slow/infrequent commissioned writers: Bubblelord, Gardeford(?), anyone else, but most community writers aren't paid and Bub/Garde aren't paid for everything.

I don't think they're taking home incredible bank from this game individually because of the splits, but your split estimate is off. We're also not including Steam sales of at least 16,000 at $10~ USD ( ) [Edit: we're also ignoring their subscribestar with 355 subs]. It's not very productive to pretend we have a perfect idea of what a 1:1 pay-to-workflow model should look like for this team, but when you compare what gets in the game and what one man developers, like Being a DIK (DrPinkCake) from your example, can produce in a game that requires text and rendered graphics, they don't look very good.

A large issue with your defense is that it's entirely quantitative and ignores qualitative issues: target audience, subjective writing quality, bugs, and typos. BADIK has one writer and a decently focused target audience that will engage with most of the content in the game without much issue, while CoC2 has such a wide net of content matter and writers that updates will leave people out, which effectively means no content for them, and is something you've fairly complained about before. Almost every single significant CoC2 patch has a bug that requires a hotfix for a game-breaking or content-breaking issue, and the vast majority of bug reports and typos are ignored or take months to address. Drifa took them weeks (or months, depends on how you frame it) to implement, while it took a hobbyist a couple days. "Reviewing" is a very strong word for what they do considering how many glaring issues you can notice at a first glance each patch, so I'm not sure how there's a "huge" queue.

The 1000 word/day target you mentioned before is from people trying to produce professionally edited, reviewed, and marketed literature, not passable smut. I do agree it's hard to churn out large wordcounts without writing quality suffering or burnout, but despite taking on more staff, and community & commission writers, updates have only gotten smaller lately. It's so obvious that they're releasing , and backers might only get 1 or 2 updates instead of . I was willing to give them a generous pass when they stumbled over the Winter holidays, and for poor coding a year ago, but what is the excuse at this point, 3+ years in?

I don't know how you can look at the evidence and not conclude that they're either lazy or incompetent, by intention or not. It's very hard to maintain goodwill.
 
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smithsmithsmith

Active Member
Aug 16, 2018
610
1,416
I'm not really sold on the comparison with BaDIK. I've not played it but flicking through the walkthrough it comes across as a fairly linear VN with a simple moral choice system, the main thing it affects is which girls you can pursue and even then if the reviews are accurate you don't get many options on that front when it comes to actual storyline branches. As for the graphics, most of the time investment comes from building and rigging the models, posing them is fairly quick. If the thread is accurate he buys his models from Daz3d. There's an impressive amount of stuff overall but I'd argue it's a far simpler game to produce for.
 
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