well one thing is clear Savin will be raising his wifes boyfriends kid
Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.45] [Savin/Salamander Studios]
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Controversial? the fuck is so controversial about it? that you suddenly get to have a corrupting/meaningful choice
or that you can fuck the lesbo Paladin or what? inb4 once reworked they accidentally slip into the honey without you doing anything to take away even more of what little player agency you have.
no this and the TiTS thread on here are the place to discuss that.
man that's one of the shittiest justifications for making the player weak.
no we talking about shit like this
like why go on this quest to save the world if literally anyone is stronger than you anyway? and don't come in here with "yOuR sOuL iS sPeShUl" you can give it away and boom no speshul soul anymore
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MoneyMan181
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I finally got around to playing RynQuest and my god they're really bad at lore and world-building. The entire time I was playing through it I was just thinking to myself "This shit is BORING." I usually like reading about lore but in this case it's just like... why? It goes absolutely nowhere and is just there to be there. It doesn't add to the world-building in any meaningful way, it doesn't get you to feel anything, and it doesn't tell anything unique. Why bother including an entire life story for some cow soldier and his wife that I met 5 minutes ago? Why go on this entire lore dump about this dragon elf island when we stay there for 20 minutes only to never go back again? It feels like it's just there because the quest would feel short as fuck otherwise(which it is). And don't get me started on how the whole Alyssa and Ryn confrontation was just a shitty Luke vs Darth Vader moment. Ugh.
I really don't get why they're trying to take this game seriously when it just never works.
The Ryn uncaging scene was sweet, though.
I really don't get why they're trying to take this game seriously when it just never works.
The Ryn uncaging scene was sweet, though.
Lucky_I
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I mean, does the MC NEED to be the strongest at any given time in order to do anything? Is that really that big of a deal?
MoneyMan181
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The issue is not the MC being weaker than other characters(objectively, anyway. Subjectively it could hurt someone's enjoyment). The issue is that these characters that are stronger than us do absolutely nothing to stop the threat to the world that is Kasyrra. Sanders, Gweyr, Garth, Leofric, all the gods, etc. have all been said by the devs that they're stronger than the MC. If that's the case, why are they not the ones trying to stop Kas? Literally all of these characters would know what she's capable of, yet they do nothing besides sit on their asses and there's no justification for it except for maybe Gweyr.
to be fair, a lot of those guys are old as shit or crippled so they couldn't do anything now. the gods not doing anything is weird though.
MoneyMan181
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The devs explicitly said one or more of them would beat MC in a fight so yeah. Otherwise I'd agree with you. In fact I'd go so far as to saying MC is the most powerful mortal in the game so far, as there isn't really anybody stronger than us that we have evidence of or has accomplished more. Devs words be damned.
*Looks at Dragon Eve*
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You took this long just to describe how the lore of this game is handled in general? I don't even bother anymore. If it has nothing to do with me or actual current events, I have no interest in exposition dumps.
Unobtainium
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To be fair, they are the potentially your girlfriends parents and would have heard of them if you interacted with her enough before. Also you normally should be able to meet them before the quest, but Liv's kids are bugged cause this game is dogwater.
Gotta say, I just don't get this complaint.
I mean...this is how it is in almost everything I can think of.
Any D&D adventure can have you stopping some world-ending threat noone else seems to care about. Gods included.
Any comic you pick up has random mid-level capes dealing with an alien invasion or a world-ending doomsday device or whatever without Superman or Thor or something popping in.
Any shonen anime you watch has a bunch of super powerful old retired or busy or just lazy as hell NPCs just wandering out the world doing nothing useful.
Idk, this just seems to be the normal way of operation to me, especially in RPGs. You're almost always the only one doing anything useful or constructive, and it's very rarely because you're the strongest (at least at the beginning).
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Lucky_I
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I think we're at the point of the discussion in which that it's because THIS game is the one doing it and that is the problem. Other stuff doing the same thing doesn't matter, it's that CoC2 is doing it at all. Like what's that one One Piece meme? "Gotta maintain the agenda" or what have you. But I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.
Tho I will say if it's an issue no matter what, regardless of what piece of fiction it's a part of, well then fair enough.
Tho I will say if it's an issue no matter what, regardless of what piece of fiction it's a part of, well then fair enough.
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When it comes to the actual gods, I think it can be excused; maybe they simply don’t care much about Earth or its inhabitants. If by all accounts they should care, on the other hand, then it’s just bad writing to not have them involve themselves, whether that’s in D&D or COC2. When it comes to characters like Garth or Leofric, who have lots of worldly attachments, it’s much harder to justify their staying uninvolved.
I don’t read comics, so I can’t speak for those, but in the shōnen manga I know, the main characters usually are the strongest people around, other than the villain (e.g. Dragonball), or else the more powerful characters are involved in some way, even if they’re not on the same task as the protagonists (e.g. Naruto).
MoneyMan181
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...Alright so? It's not exactly normal human behavior to dump your life's story on your daughter's S/O the first time you meet them. And that's IF you're even bothering to date her in the first place. Even still, just because I'm fucking their daughter doesn't mean I magically care about them enough to hear them yap for that long in one sitting.
This being a prevailing issue in many forms of media does not suddenly make it good or okay writing. Hell, every genre you've listed has never been known for smart or intelligent writing. Don't get where you're coming from in terms of it being a thing in RPGs. In almost every one I've played there is a reason the MC is the one doing these things and not somebody else.
Dragon Age? You've got special powers that almost nobody else has and are basically forced to fight the rest of your short life. Fallout 1 and 2? You're the best candidate to leave the settlement. Literally any JRPG? You're the chosen one special anime protag. KOTOR 1 and 2? You're literally the most broken characters to ever exist but just didn't know it yet. Divinity Original Sin 2?
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You get the point. Usually in RPGs you are the one in the middle of things because not many people have the ability to do what you can, and/or the MC is privy to special knowledge most others don't. In this game, other people can, according to the devs, help just as much if not more and have the same knowledge as we do.
Even if every single example I brought up is somehow wrong, I'll take that L. Still doesn't make it good writing, though. What-aboutism is like the worst defense to literally anything.
Read above. I don't shit on this game for no reason, I genuinely do want to enjoy it. However, I'm not going to turn my brain off in order to do so unless it's to crank the hog. The devs chose to make this game much more story and lore focused than both the first game and TiTS. The onus is on them to have it enhance the product, not bring it down. I don't go lambasting those games because they're not trying to be more than they are.
It's because the writing is shit.
There's an argument to be made for MCs on the romance path, that Kas just doesn't want to corrupt you. She'd easily corrupt/kill any non-god character. What about the gods? Don't think about it I guess.
Unobtainium
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Livrea sends them letters gassing you up to hell and back because she is head over heels for mc and thinks really highly of them. I really don't find it strange for some doting parents to get close to somene after that, and I find it even less strange when you factor in you're going on a multi day boat trip to a battle. Even if you aren't dating her, rag tag merenary parties or soilder PUGs exchanging life storys before a battle also doesn't seem anywhere out of left field.
I would disagree with almost all those examples, in that most/all of them are just contrivances that don't hold up under scrutiny roughly the same as this game.
But more importantly, if you wanted instory reasons, they exist just fine in this game.
You, specifically, are after Kass because you're forced to be.
She told you shes going to take your soul and jangled your destruction in front of you like a set of keys, slapped you with her dick and moonwalked out of the room. Your quest is motivated by self-interest.
The gods aren't helping because Kas, in and of herself, isn't a real threat in their eyes. The face to face she had with a god he told her that, point blank. In that same scene, he says the reasons the gods are keeping their hands off - they're interested in what Kas is doing.
Remember, noone has actually seen what the demons did to Mareth. We know, because of meta knowledge, but the majority of people that actually know about her (and besides the gods its a small amount) haven't met her and have no reason to think she's a particular threat to them. And even if they did, they have no reason to think they could do anything about it - the only reason she hasn't squashed YOu, specifically, is because she has a soft spot to you. The being stronger than you doesn't translate to them being stronger than her.
The priest is a pacifist who wouldn't even beat up a couple of kids.
Garth is practically crippled - he limps just getting around the bar.
Gweyr is both in exile and, strictly speaking, HAS been doing something the whole time - longer than you, actually. And afterwards, she's finally reunited with her family.
And we have next to zero info on Leofric. Who knows what he's doing and why?
tl;dr Very few people know about Kass, even fewer see her an existential threat, and the people that fall under both categories are...well, generally in your party.
Meatshield236
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I think people's complaint's are less about player power and more about player agency. I'm currently replaying Neverwinter Nights, one of Bioware's oldest RPGs, and there's a reason why it's almost never brought up. The story is basic, the characters are cliche, and so on. But even it allows you to have some degree of agency: you can be goody two-shoes, only in it for the fame and glory, not give a damn about anyone, and even threaten or kill NPCs at your leasure. There's always several different options to get through areas, so that while you might miss one path, another path will get you to the same end point.
And CoC 2 doesn't hold up to a painfully mediocre RPG from 20 years ago that I'm only playing because I like DnD and nostagia is a fantastic drug. For how many disposable NPCs there are, we should be able to do what we want with them. Let us randomly murder people or corrupt them into fuck toys. In CoC 2, you are painfully limited in the amount of choices you can make. A proper RPG should feel like a dialogue between the player and the game. The player does something, the game reacts to it. Instead, it feels like I'm having a novel thrown at me every time I talk to someone, and I can't go off script because that person is someone's special OC. It doesn't matter how powerful the PC is, what matters is how much the game lets you decide how to approach things and what to do.
In Neverwinter Nights, I can't deviate from the main plot, but I can be an asshole to everyone I meet and murder everyone I have at my mercy, or just be mercinary and try to get as much money as I can out of every encounter. In CoC 2, I have to follow the script, and my only choices are "do you want fuck?" or not. Which for a text-based game not constrained by graphical fidelity or art, where the only limitation is words, is downright criminal.
And CoC 2 doesn't hold up to a painfully mediocre RPG from 20 years ago that I'm only playing because I like DnD and nostagia is a fantastic drug. For how many disposable NPCs there are, we should be able to do what we want with them. Let us randomly murder people or corrupt them into fuck toys. In CoC 2, you are painfully limited in the amount of choices you can make. A proper RPG should feel like a dialogue between the player and the game. The player does something, the game reacts to it. Instead, it feels like I'm having a novel thrown at me every time I talk to someone, and I can't go off script because that person is someone's special OC. It doesn't matter how powerful the PC is, what matters is how much the game lets you decide how to approach things and what to do.
In Neverwinter Nights, I can't deviate from the main plot, but I can be an asshole to everyone I meet and murder everyone I have at my mercy, or just be mercinary and try to get as much money as I can out of every encounter. In CoC 2, I have to follow the script, and my only choices are "do you want fuck?" or not. Which for a text-based game not constrained by graphical fidelity or art, where the only limitation is words, is downright criminal.
jfmherokiller
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- May 25, 2020
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One thing I must admit is you are running into your own desires vs the developers especially with the whole be a bastard and murder people part.
But at the same time they really should flesh out the world and add more choices of ways players can go about things or ATLEAST make each area/choice have some level of consistency/acknowledgement of the players actions.
Yeppers34
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The biggest issue for me is when a game is giving me the option of being a good character or an evil character I want my actions and choices to effect the world and the npcs around me. What's the point of giving the player a "choice" when it doesn't really feel like what I do matters. If the developers want to focus on lore and tell a story then they should have wrote a fanfiction