Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.33] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[MoneyMan181]

Now we can actually do things semi-professionally"

*Looks back at Wsan finding out about the Hobgoblin shit*
Semi-professional, guys

VNs are usually games where you spend a large amount of time pursuing a single person. VNs usually have long, wandering routes devoted to said person, with the reward towards/near the end being sex.

The character just seemed really out of place in the world of TiTs, in style and tone. And overall, I just hated her writing, I though it was really bad and overly saccharine.

Paige was a much better example of a character that you took some time to romance and was still a fairly sweet experience.

That's if you're looking at regular VNs. Hell, some VNs(Nukige) are made more for beating your meat than anything else and have sex throughout the whole thing. Also the tone of these games are absolutely fucked so that's just a moot point to me.

Orlaith and Hashat aren't really the kind of characters that really need more to them in terms of relationship development, they just exist to scratch an itch (also, both of them have more content planned iirc). Having a character that's a slight twist on another concept is probably just more exciting and not too much more work for the audience when there's no real emotional weight behind the character.

Not asking for relationship development with them. Just saying that if you're going to have 2 extremely similar characters, just combine the content into one character to avoid bloat and challenge the devs to do more creative things with each character. Making Hashat and her clone is basically the equivalent of putting 1 bonus stage in a game like mario, changing the placement of a few enemies, and then calling it 2 stages. It's largely unnecessary and just sucks up dev time.

And, for what's it's worth, I know Sav plans to go further in the direction of "less companions, more depth", in their next game. pretty sure I can even find the quote if I look for a sec.

Unless you want me to be excited for something that won't happen for another half decade, this means absolutely nothing to me, sorry. 8 characters isn't even THAT much to flesh out anyway if they properly focused on them and actually had multiple people writing one companion without completely fucking it up. JRPGs manage to do that in way less time, which wraps back to my complaints of having too many characters in this game.

 

[Daken9]

Probably the one thing I agree with you on. Though I disliked her for several other reasons. She was pretty tropey yet also had a lot of "this is my special OC" characteristics: cute shy nerdy girl who you want to protect, but wait she's also super rich and super smart, and she shows her sassy little backbone once you get to know her. Not bad on its own but not my type.

The worst part for me though was the dates. If I'm remembering right, literally every date you run into one of her friends and they stay with you for the duration (even stepping in to help Fisiana get out of bad situations, while our character is ineffective at it). It's one thing if getting to know her friends was optional. But it just felt (on a lighter, lighter scale) like Shizuya's intro content, where the player is forced to interact with a bunch of randoms that feel like they're based on the author's friend group or other OCs.

I don't begrudge anyone who likes her. I liked that her content was more involved than the usual "meet and bang" but didn't like how it was executed.

Yeah, same. For me it was also that the dates just went on too long, both in terms of just how many it took and how many words they employed, and i feel like that was only amplified by TiTS' whole race-against-time main plot. Like, at least CoC2 has more of a Dragon Age-esque sense of urgency, certainly there but it's more of a slow snowball so going around and doing whatever doesn't feel super at odds with main objective. Wasting fifty days to go on fifty dates with this girl, also in a planet that's got nothing to do with anything, while the rival's out there (jerking off or some shit) just took me out even more than i already was. Less than the dragon that you can sit with for a year straight while her egg hatches, but still took me out.

 

[Konstantinus]

Probably the one thing I agree with you on. Though I disliked her for several other reasons. She was pretty tropey yet also had a lot of "this is my special OC" characteristics: cute shy nerdy girl who you want to protect, but wait she's also super rich and super smart, and she shows her sassy little backbone once you get to know her. Not bad on its own but not my type.

The worst part for me though was the dates. If I'm remembering right, literally every date you run into one of her friends and they stay with you for the duration (even stepping in to help Fisiana get out of bad situations, while our character is ineffective at it). It's one thing if getting to know her friends was optional. But it just felt (on a lighter, lighter scale) like Shizuya's intro content, where the player is forced to interact with a bunch of randoms that feel like they're based on the author's friend group or other OCs.

I don't begrudge anyone who likes her. I liked that her content was more involved than the usual "meet and bang" but didn't like how it was executed.

Meanwhile I loved her. My only problem with her is, as she is supposed to be the super smart AI robotic expert we should have been able to ask her upgrade Siegwulfe. But no we need to ask Dr. Badger for it. And there is no option to ask Fisi to even look at her after Badger got her fingers on it. I mean I would really want Siegwulfe to be an sentinent AI but does it really need to be a bimbo-domme that treat me as her pet? I would even begrudgingly accept her as a bimbo-domme if she would not require petplay though it is still strange for me as the Siegwulfe should be more of loyal protector.

 

[M0nte]

I doubt it there's only pretty much be sub content for him with one for top'ing Brint with you dick and i can even think of fem dom, power bottom, and etc. besides the transform scenes.
It would be nice, i'd like more content for Fem pc.

Fem pc can't do much with cat harem and hoping Jstar does Fem dom, power bottom and/or something for the wolf group

First, I can not believe that someone else besides me remembers that scene where we ride Brint into the ground before he turns into Brienne. My favorite scene of his, despite how short it ends up being. Dominating such a big guy that game paints as a dom/stud, without the need to fight him first, is such great feeling.

And second -- Yes! My man, woman or nonbinary folk of remarkable taste! More femdom/power bottoming performed by the champion is something that I would love. Not only with femboys/twinks such as Nikol and June, but also onto every type of guy.
Because while I understand that a lot of people into guys are subs, I am personally more dominant inclined, so, to me, for every guy to be some kind of dom just sours the mood. Which is why I have been shilling Yon like no tommorow. He is exactly what I am looking for. Hope we get more of them.

 

[Basty96]

race-against-time main plot

only that that progresses only when you want it

 

[Quintilus]

Yon

Who?

 

[gregers]

Who?

Fella doing lengths in the baths in cowtown.

 

[Daken9]

only that that progresses only when you want it

Which only makes it worse. I like timed quests as much as the next guy and i can't think of all that many games that do them well (Kingmaker comes to mind) so false sense of urgency doesn't usually bother me, but when it's paired with a high stakes plot that doesn't punish you in any way for fucking around then i just find it an immersion killer. Not to say that's my main issue with tits ( ) but it's one of the things that added up.

 

[Quintilus]

high stakes plot that doesn't punish you in any way for fucking around

Most of the times punishment is "YOU IDIOT GAME OVER", as in other games, which is.....
There are still no game, at least I dont know any, that allows you to fail a subquest of a main quest and continue to live with all consequences that its fail brings.

 

[Skandranon]

Most of the times punishment is "YOU IDIOT GAME OVER", as in other games, which is.....
There are still no game, at least I dont know any, that allows you to fail a subquest of a main quest and continue to live with all consequences that its fail brings.

There are some. Mostly CRPG type games.

Definitely not common though.

 

[Quintilus]

There are some. Mostly CRPG type games.

Definitely not common though.

Examples?
inb4 fallout 2

 

[Daken9]

Most of the times punishment is "YOU IDIOT GAME OVER", as in other games, which is.....
There are still no game, at least I dont know any, that allows you to fail a subquest of a main quest and continue to live with all consequences that its fail brings.

Probably explained it wrong. Was talking about the kinda plot that instills a high sense of urgency but doesn't punish the player in any way for wasting time. Think you gotta find a cure for terminal death in 2 days but it's no biggy if it takes 10, just unneccesary stakes. Not that bad in TiTS, but still takes me out that the race against the rival is more like a backward crawl for who gets last.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Probably explained it wrong. Was talking about the kinda plot that instills a high sense of urgency but doesn't punish the player in any way for wasting time. Think you gotta find a cure for terminal death in 2 days but it's no biggy if it takes 10, just unneccesary stakes. Not that bad in TiTS, but still takes me out that the race against the rival is more like a backward crawl for who gets last.

How would you get around it though? You can't have an open world with all this extra stuff to do on a deadline, at least not until an ending is implemented. Would you add a timer? Remove the urgency and thereby remove the plot?

Granted they kinda wrote themselves into this corner, but aside from finishing the game to be able to add a tangible time limit what can they do?

 

[Skandranon]

Examples?
inb4 fallout 2

...New Vegas?

I guess it kinda depends on what you mean by subquest if the main plot.

How would you get around it though? You can't have an open world with all this extra stuff to do on a deadline, at least not until an ending is implemented. Would you add a timer? Remove the urgency and thereby remove the plot?

Granted they kinda wrote themselves into this corner, but aside from finishing the game to be able to add a tangible time limit what can they do?

I feel like pretty much all games do this, though, especially ones with lots of exploration.

I spent a hell of a long time in FF7 looking at the giant planet destroying Meteor hanging in the sky while I was running around racing chocobos for dozens of hours.

 

[Amnelis]

Way I see it, having sex in these games is like getting a beer with someone. You're buds, you're horny, what's there to think about? I don't think locking sex behind walls of text is what makes good characters (that isn't to say that can't work), but if the character grows closer to you over time that makes them good.

It's a weak example because it's about dominance rather than love but look at Berwyn. You have enough of the right kind of sex with him, and he acts differently with you and will even father a child with you. Now just replace the "sex to get different sex" with different activities that showcase your growing bond as two people rather than fuckbuddies. Example: getting closer to Brint by playing skeeball together, chilling by a lake, getting beers at a pub other than any one Cait would frequent, going to a sports game, and it showcases the emotional connection rather than the physical. Show the player that the two of you have bonded yknow?

Yeah their world is way more lax about sex in general. It's one of the reasons the defeat scenes work so well IMO, having no choice but submiting to some thief or orc who beat you is more of a inconvenience or embarassment than anything. But still as you mentioned I believe most people would treat casual sex vs sex in a relationship differently. One problem with Brint is that he goes super romantic very quick. In my male playthrough I'd rather he had a fuck buddy type relationship yet they are now all lovey dovey and IIRC even call each other boyfriend in some scenes.

8 characters isn't even THAT much to flesh out anyway if they properly focused on them and actually had multiple people writing one companion without completely fucking it up.

I was gonna mention this in my recent coment, the ideal definitely would be for multiple writers to work on a single companion so progress and updates are not at the mercy of one person. It would require people to set their egos aside and play nice though.

 

[M0nte]

One problem with Brint is that he goes super romantic very quick. In my male playthrough I'd rather he had a fuck buddy type relationship yet they are now all lovey dovey and IIRC even call each other boyfriend in some scenes.

How would you make transition from fuckbuddies to friends make more natural? Like, tie the guy's progression to couple of events where player chooses if they want to romantically pursue him or not?

 

[Amnelis]

How would you make transition from fuckbuddies to friends make more natural? Like, tie the guy's progression to couple of events where player chooses if they want to romantically pursue him or not?

Yeah something along those lines. Doesn't even need to have multiple events, after going through a few of the of available sex scenes + regular conversation you'd get the chance to chose if you wanted to keep things casual or go for a deeper relationship. Like Aileh but not so abruptly. It's definitelly not "natural" and still pretty gamey but just the chance to define your relationship with major characters would be welcomed.

From the perspective of my female playthrough, especially as I first began to play the game since the very early releases, it did felt fairly natural how they she & Brint went from fuck buddies to lovers. But after reading a comment raising this issue & starting a male playthrough myself I realized it's a bit frustrating how you're kinda forced into it. IIRC I haven't gone on dates with Brint with my male MC, I think that would be a good event to determine your relationship with him.

 

[Kroenen12]

Well you have to cross your fingers and be lucky that this has the option of marrying taka and sending azami elsewhere

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[arls120]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

....... well there is still the option of burning the kitsune lair

 

[Daken9]

How would you get around it though? You can't have an open world with all this extra stuff to do on a deadline, at least not until an ending is implemented. Would you add a timer? Remove the urgency and thereby remove the plot?

Granted they kinda wrote themselves into this corner, but aside from finishing the game to be able to add a tangible time limit what can they do?

Don't really need to remove it, only adjust it. In TiTS' case maybe have the rival take off with the thingies if you take too long, or alternatively have a whole few quests to even find out the coordinates, or something like that.

But really, if a game's strength unanimously lies with the side-content then having a main plot that encourages rushing through is counterproductive. Only gonna write yourself into a corner, like you said. Much better to go with a more basic main plot that for all intents and purpose is only there to tie together and give meaning to the experience, but otherwise serves and puts front and center the side-stuff. Mass Effect 2 is probably a dirty example because it's arguably the best game to have done such a thing (and to have also pulled off the urgency thing decentely), but really lots of cRPGs do this kinda thing.

And going back to CoC2, credit where credit is due, it is quite clean how the main plot takes us all over the place and in so doing actually incentives in-character exploration. Much better than TiTS' 3 main planets and then go explore the other 10 side-ones just 'cause.