Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.33] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Skandranon]

Even for older content its not very good. Anything involving centaurs or Spiderfolk is wildly incomplete and flat-out wrong (The race is supposed to be Drider, as in Drider Queen, not Spiderfolk). And this is stuff thats been in the game for several years now.

I don't fault the team for focusing on making content instead of maintaining the wiki, but by looking at the wiki you can really tell that most of the team is extremely narrow focused.

From what I understand the team doesn't update the wiki at all. It just a few volunteers who ask the staff.

Whoever is volunteering for CoC2 apparently sucks, because the wiki is waaaay worse than the TiTs one, which is pretty comprehensive.

 

[MoneyMan181]

Most NPC sub scenes are very similar imo, and basically break down into aggressively subby (Brienne) or small shivery prey animal sub (Clementine). I feel like I could do a straight swap between a bunch of characters playing sub and noone could tell aside from physical differences.

Meanwhile, I feel like the differences between doms tends to be pretty well delineated.

This some bias if I've ever seen it. I really don't know how you could look at Azyrran, Brienne, Cat Harem, Kiyoko, Valencia, Etheryn, Milly, and Cait and come to the conclusion that they all fit into just those 2 categories. Meanwhile with the dom characters, I just feel like just another talking dildo/onahole they can use to get themselves off. Orlaith, dom Arona, Zuzaan, Sandre, Mara, Lyla, Hashat, etc., all just make me feel like a piece of meat they don't really give a shit about. Evergreen, Evelyn, and the horse futa harem chick are the only ones that don't feel homogeneous with every other dommy character.

And this is coming from a guy who actually likes dickgirls and both sides of sub/dom content.

 

[VeryMeta]

I feel like there is a difference between a child-character (child as in someone's kid not necessarily a person who is not an adult) wanting to do their own thing and be independent and have adventures and fun in their own ways without parental interference and oversight and what TOBs wrote. What TOBs created seems to me to be wholly manufactured drama and edge. If Kinu did a bit where you could check in with her every so often and she'd be like "hi mother/father dearest I have just returned from a fun journey allow me to regale you with an overlong and uninteresting tale of my travels" then that... well it still wouldn't have been very good but it would have allowed TOBs to a) do his stuff where he just decides to just drop a full-length non-erotic short story into the fantasy porn game apropos of nothing and b) explore his desired themes about a character who wants to be someone other just than the daughter of a princess and a famous hero.
Similarly, if TOBs had included a sequence where the MC could choose to say "daughter dearest, I think you should marry the racist samurai who holds me in deep contempt" (or something similar) and Kinu could reply "thank you for your insight, papa/mama but I think I wish to marry the aggressively inoffensive farmer man instead", he could have disarmed the 'your allegedly-loving family does not care what you have to say about your child's marriage' criticism. The result, that hime would marry a racist and that inari would marry a very bland person, could still be exactly the same regardless of player input if for some reason TOBs was really committed to that dynamic, but the game wouldn't have had to actively tell the player "no shut up sit down you don't matter right now".
The problem with this of course would be that it wouldn't allow TOBs to write about serious, adult, intellectual things like weirdos who want to inflict grievous bodily harm on others for poorly-explained reasons and families that are falling apart because no one knows how to talk to each other. Most of the (thematic) problems I have with TOBs as a writer is that he appears to be of the school of thought that "more dark = more gooder" and the more violence and contrived 'dilemmas' (hmmm should I murder these prisoners of war for no real reason or not? What to do, what to do) he can put in the better a writer he is. This is very obviously not only false in and of itself but it often leads to situations where his writing strongly clashes with the tones most of the other authors have adopted for CoC2.

 

[Skandranon]

This some bias if I've ever seen it.

I really don't know how you could look at Azyrran, Brienne, Cat Harem, Kiyoko, Valencia, Etheryn, Milly, and Cait and come to the conclusion that they all fit into just those 2 categories.

Obviously I'm generalizing to an extent, but yeah, all of those characters I think pretty easily fit into one of those two categories - except when they arent being the sub, which some of those characters switch up sometimes.

Meanwhile with the dom characters, I just feel like just another talking dildo/onahole they can use to get themselves off. Orlaith, dom Arona, Zuzaan, Sandre, Mara, Lyla, Hashat, etc., all just make me feel like a piece of meat they don't really give a shit about. Evergreen, Evelyn, and the horse futa harem chick are the only ones that don't feel homogeneous with every other dommy character.

There's some that aren't as good as others, of course, but by and large I think they have pretty decent differences. Lyla is pretty heavily into humiliation play, Orlaith and Mara are somewhat similar of course but still feel pretty distinct from everyone else, dom Arona definitely provides a way meaner experience than most of the others, etc.

And this is coming from a guy who actually likes dickgirls and both sides of sub/dom content.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I also like both dom and sub stuff usually pretty equally - just not in this game specifically.

Imo, the dominant character is usually the one determining the flow of the scene ‐ providing most of the flavor. The sub is important of course, but how the scene changes usually is determined by the dom.

And the PC character is a boring blob of nothing, so PC dom scenes tend to not be able to express as much and flow worse than PC sub scenes.

 

[ngulex97]

looking good

 

[MoneyMan181]

There's some that aren't as good as others, of course, but by and large I think they have pretty decent differences.

You can say the same thing about sub content. Really I have no idea how Kiyoko fits into "aggressively subby" or "small shivery prey" even a little bit. Brienne is if you want a super slutty girl in the sheets but super loving girl in the streets, Azzy if you want something gentler and sweeter(heh), Valencia if you want a very shy but very willing partner, Cait if you want something super casual, Cat Harem if you want to feel like pampered royalty, etc. Kiyoko, Azy, Etheryn(high confidence), and Cait definitely don't fit into either category.

Lyla is pretty heavily into humiliation play, Orlaith and Mara are somewhat similar of course but still feel pretty distinct from everyone else, dom Arona definitely provides a way meaner experience than most of the others, etc.

Again, at the end of the day, they almost all make you feel like a piece of meat. Something that they use for pleasure and don't really care about what happens with you afterwards. There might be slightly different flavors of it, but they all have the same general attitude when it comes to the champ/sex. I actually feel different characters view me differently with sub content where they could view you as a spouse, a fuckbuddy, their owner, or just a way to blow off steam; while with dom content they're all just "I'm just going to use you for my own pleasure and you're going to (hopefully) like it."

And the PC character is a boring blob of nothing, so PC dom scenes tend to not be able to express as much and flow worse than PC sub scenes.

Skill(writing) issue. For some reason these writers are afraid to give the champ personality in any scenes unless it fits their own narrative. It's not too hard to still let the player feel in control and self-insert while also giving the vessel they control a personality of their own. Wsan does a pretty decent job at it but when TOBS writes it for example, the PC may as well be one of those hentai protagonists with hair covering their eyes. Wait those guys actually have more personality than the way TOBS writes the champ...

 

[Skandranon]

You can say the same thing about sub content. Really I have no idea how Kiyoko fits into "aggressively subby" or "small shivery prey" even a little bit. Brienne is if you want a super slutty girl in the sheets but super loving girl in the streets, Azzy if you want something gentler and sweeter(heh), Valencia if you want a very shy but very willing partner, Cait if you want something super casual, Cat Harem if you want to feel like pampered royalty, etc. Kiyoko, Azy, Etheryn(high confidence), and Cait definitely don't fit into either category.

Sorry, I haven't really played fox content, so I can't actually speak to Kiyoko specifically.

But I'd personally categorize Brienne, Cait, Cat Harem and high confidence Ryn into what I'd call "aggressively subby", and Valencia and low confidence Ryn into the other category. Azzy I don't really think of as that much of a sub in the first place.

I'm not saying the characters have zero differences, but I think in sex scenes they show fewer differences than the doms.

I also thiiink (not positive though) there are more subby characters, so it just might also be the number coloring my perceptions.

Again, at the end of the day, they almost all make you feel like a piece of meat. Something that they use for pleasure and don't really care about what happens with you afterwards. There might be slightly different flavors of it, but they all have the same general attitude when it comes to the champ/sex. I actually feel different characters view me differently with sub content where they could view you as a spouse, a fuckbuddy, their owner, or just a way to blow off steam; while with dom content they're all just "I'm just going to use you for my own pleasure and you're going to (hopefully) like it."

That attitude isn't the only difference between them, though. Orlaith and Mara's sheer physicality isn't the same as Lyla domming your through degradation, or Hashat's single minded dedication (if you're an elf), or Arona's joy in actually constantly reminding and demonstrating your place in your relationship as well as her switch to a more caring side when your pregnancy happens, or Eryka's fits of violent dommi-ness...

Skill(writing) issue. For some reason these writers are afraid to give the champ personality in any scenes unless it fits their own narrative. It's not too hard to still let the player feel in control and self-insert while also giving the vessel they control a personality of their own. Wsan does a pretty decent job at it but when TOBS writes it for example, the PC may as well be one of those hentai protagonists with hair covering their eyes. Wait those guys actually have more personality than the way TOBS writes the champ...

Whatever the issue is, the result is that player dom scenes, imo, have noticeably looser and less descriptive writing. And I don't even think Wsan is immune to that; he barely writes player dom in the first place that I can remember. He generally writes his scenes to have a bigger focus on the NPC, which is why I think his sex scenes are so great; they're really good at showcasing the personality of the characters in them.



I think Tobs tends to actually focus a lot more of the player's thoughts than other people which...doesn't always have great results. One of the only times early on I did some fox stuff, I did Rindo's first sex scene, and noped out when he tried to intimately describe your character's reaction to her burnt bits during sex, and how you were banging the trauma out of her or something...it was pretty bad.

 

[Leon_Arkwing]

that doesn't work for the downloaded version, that only works for the browser version, which i don't have

 

[undyingrevenant]

I don't get why kiyoko doesn't have more mama bear moments, especially when each den mother is supposed to be fully combat trained and she spent more time alone and then with you and all her kids than the den, so you'd figure she'd have reactions bordering on mental breakdowns when the attacks happen, you'd figure she'd be AT LEAST as defensive of the champion as brienne is; brienne will face down your party and a paladin stronger than any of you saying "back off my man" while kiyoko just instantly "betrays" you to a point for the kitsune culture, not caring for your opinions or more strongly defending you from Nakanos quips for example.

Gwyns a better breeder, briennes a better waifu, heck arona is now while also having her own culture and leader role, aileh's a better parent sim. If you're treating her like a car there's nothing to sell her on besides "well, there's a lot of stuff to read. Shes not as fun as the other kitsune and your kid has parent issues right out of the box, she tells you little, doesn't particularly want to invite you to anything and doesn't care for your opinions."

She's the poster girl for the game besides kas; but has a fraction of the emotion and love kas shows. As the game progresses, since I guess kiyokos considered uh ""feature complete"", and more characters are added, I think it's probably going to get worse for her, not better. They really really need to build on existing characters, and of course they can do it later on, but when they do that they increase the risk of another Berwyn or just abandon them and rely on volunteer work for anything else. Cait gets more content everywhere while everyone else is either a "one day" or "write it yourself for free specifically how we want or shut up".

If youre going to have characters talking about suicide, child murder, non sexy rape, snapping necks in self defense, full body burns, massacres, abuse, slavery, totally not child grooming we just have children scrub old people all over their bodies, you need characters to back it up and can't hide behind "it's a smut game lol". Characters need to be liked by people instead of just "well they have a hot scene my job is done here".

 

[MoneyMan181]

That attitude isn't the only difference between them, though. Orlaith and Mara's sheer physicality isn't the same as Lyla domming your through degradation, or Hashat's single minded dedication (if you're an elf), or Arona's joy in actually constantly reminding and demonstrating your place in your relationship as well as her switch to a more caring side when your pregnancy happens, or Eryka's fits of violent dommi-ness...

Again, I can make the exact same points for sub characters and already have. Regardless of their finer points or whatever you wanna call it, dom characters are still mostly similar enough that you can classify them as the same category. Sub characters certainly do not have fewer differences when compared to dom characters, especially to the point where you'd use umbrella terms for them and not do the same for dom ones. Honestly seems like you're being contrarian just for the sake of it here.

when he tried to intimately describe your character's reaction to her burnt bits during sex, and how you were banging the trauma out of her or something...it was pretty bad.

..............................................................
No comment. Just.....no comment.

 

[Skandranon]

Again, I can make the exact same points for sub characters and already have. Regardless of their finer points or whatever you wanna call it, dom characters are still mostly similar enough that you can classify them as the same category. Sub characters certainly do not have fewer differences when compared to dom characters, especially to the point where you'd use umbrella terms for them and not do the same for dom ones. Honestly seems like you're being contrarian just for the sake of it here.

Eh, probably just something we'll have to disagree on.

 

[VeryMeta]

The way the Rindo stuff is written seems really really fucked up to me. By the time I got to her I wasn't really closely reading any stuff TOBS wrote but I clearly remember the line "she's not beautiful in spite of her scars - she's beautiful because of them" which I suppose is supposed to be a romantic kinda line but I imagine telling a person with a severe physical disability of some kind that you want to put your dick in 'em because you think its hot that they've got extensive scarring etc would be a kind of statement that would probably immediately terminate any sexual/romantic relationship.

 

[Raf-Raf]

"she's not beautiful in spite of her scars - she's beautiful because of them"

Man, I never thought an amputee would look this hot.
or even
Look at that cripple, she has no LEGS, that's so fucking hot!!!
She has cancer??? THAT'S GOOD STUFF!!!

 

[Noone202]

Man, I never thought an amputee would look this hot.
or even
Look at that cripple, she has no LEGS, that's so fucking hot!!!
She has cancer??? THAT'S GOOD STUFF!!!

Japanese people does have that word where a damaged good but repaired is a beauty of it's own (Wasabi I think)....but I think Tobs is just mentally ill.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Japanese people does have that word where a damaged good but repaired is a beauty of it's own (Wasabi I think)....but I think Tobs is just mentally ill.

I guess Rindo is a budget version of Sylvie in Teaching Feeling.

 

[VeryMeta]

Japanese people does have that word where a damaged good but repaired is a beauty of it's own (Wasabi I think)....but I think Tobs is just mentally ill.

Yes tobs did refer to that concept at least once that I recall in Rindo's dialogue so I presume that was the exciting new Japanese concept he had just now learned of. The problem is that that's kind of a fucked up thing to apply to another person. And I think even tobs knows this because you get like three options on first meeting Rindo, to 1) sympathise, 2) not react any special way and 3) to call her ugly or something similarly dumb and I'm pretty sure the 'best' option (in terms of not upsetting her) is to not react. So he knows that you probably shouldn't be calling people with extensive scarring sexy because they got the scars but also he didn't know how else to make the whole 'repair with gold' concept work so he just did it anyway.

 

[Basty96]

I guess Rindo is a budget version of Sylvie in Teaching Feeling.

OY don't compare this shit to Headpat Simulator

 

[Raf-Raf]

OY don't compare this shit to Headpat Simulator

Fine then, FROM WISH.

 

[Fiz1247]

I guess Rindo is a budget version of Sylvie in Teaching Feeling.

I think it's that girl from Katawa Shoujo with the burns

 

[Daken9]

100%. Dude literally just played Katawa Shojo and went mine now



Which, fine if he'd done something with it, but he's a pseudo intellectual. Just twists around themes he doesn't understand until they fit with his honestly limited preconceptions, so you end up with burn scars be beautiful and bacon-smelling vajay.