Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.45] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Wrynn13]

"They are being worked on" TM

 

[Jötunn123]

Did Fenoxo have any similar Crew related drama/issues?

 

[Tau_Iota]

Someone pointed this out yesterday but Cait and Quin could have a nice parallel story arc as both are part of religion that is entirely sex based. One character could slowly corrupt you (Quin) while the other helps cure it (Cait) or you character could slowly corrupt Cait making her no better than the cultist.
This could also lead to Cait developing some self awareness as well, since her religion is no better the Cultist. The only thing she doesn't do is rape people...Oh wait nevermind Cait does rape people if the PC has sex with defeated enemies, so literaly no different than the cult she hated. But, that could turn into a character arc in the hands of a capable writer

That was me, and I love your idea for Cait to be able to see the grey between black and white. Never even occurred to me. Damn, maybe we should try and get jobs writing for CoC2 That's four differences between two followers BaseCait/LoverQuin, CorruptCait/LoverQuin, BaseCait/CorruptQuin, and CorruptCait/CorruptQuin. I think the corrupt Cait and lover Quin would be the most interesting, because of how the writing could reflect Quin being torn by what you've done to Cait and his love for you. Since silly mode loves Star Wars references, you could even have a "It was said that you would destroy the Sith Demons, not join them!"

 

[Evizzy89]

dont forget about the budget!
theres been AAA games with smaller budgets than CoC2 has, and with less "developers" too
jus sayin ;O

edit: anyone whos been here a long time i am curious what coc2s starting budget was from gofundme, ive heard variances from 200k to 400k anyone who knows enlighten me?

 

[BigSaltDeluxe]

It's interesting to me to compare the behind the scenes on this game, to SPNATI

 

[Thisguy2]

The big thing you guys are missing is that even if BubbleLord, Gardeford, or whoever else you hate hardly ever writes anything, they're still there. Even if it's only to deliver canned "I'm working on it" responses, they're still within reach and they can still at least claim to be producing content. Hugs vanished entirely, he was not able to be reached at all during his cool-off periods, and couldn't even bring himself to fire out a "I'm still working on X" when it was asked of him. I struggle with mental illness too, but even I know that life doesn't wait for you when you shut down. If you make a commitment to either write something or at least maintain contact when you're not able to write and you fail to keep that commitment, there will obviously be consequences.

If you're baking a big ass cake, and I offer to give you the eggs, and then I hand you one egg and then sever all contact with you for a while, are you going to sit there and hope that I eventually come back with the rest of the eggs you need, or are you going to get the eggs elsewhere so that you can actually continue baking the cake?

Well heres the thing though. Im not making the cake.
If i was making the big ass cake that is Coc 2, making the amount of money that Savin makes on patreon. I would instead already had people on a pay roll to get the eggs for me and not rely on unpaid random community members with mental issues to do the important work i should've gotten done already.
And if Berwyns supposed to be an egg in your metaphor, Savin practically threw that egg at a wall and just left it there to rot and forget about it.

 

[Wrynn13]

Did Fenoxo have any similar Crew related drama/issues?

The only thing I remember was the epic fit Savin threw over the Helspawn debalce. Seems like Fen did a much better job at least keeping things quiet. Then again Fen also bailed on the game to start over with TITS so I'm sure there was stuff going on that wasn't public.

 

[Wrynn13]

Savin was also extremely toxic on the Fenoxo mod forum, but that was after Fen had started TITS and people like Kitteh were left to clean up what was left of CoC1.

 

[MoneyMan181]

The big thing you guys are missing is that even if BubbleLord, Gardeford, or whoever else you hate hardly ever writes anything, they're still there. Even if it's only to deliver canned "I'm working on it" responses, they're still within reach and they can still at least claim to be producing content. Hugs vanished entirely, he was not able to be reached at all during his cool-off periods, and couldn't even bring himself to fire out a "I'm still working on X" when it was asked of him. I struggle with mental illness too, but even I know that life doesn't wait for you when you shut down. If you make a commitment to either write something or at least maintain contact when you're not able to write and you fail to keep that commitment, there will obviously be consequences.

Why you think I hate somebody I have never even interacted with and don't know anything about is beyond me. I couldn't give less of a fuck about Gardeford, Bubs, or any other writer on the team except for Wsan.

This also makes no sense even from your point of view. There is literally 0 difference between saying you're working on something or not saying anything in this situation. Why would claiming to be creating content even matter when that content is not being released?

But OK, I'll admit Hugs could've handled the situation better. However, I have to ask: Why did Savin feel the need to drop the fucking nuclear bomb that is booting out the writer to a companion? Unless Hugs was a CONSTANT problem child that was fucking things up a lot, I see no reason to boot him over something as ultimately trivial as going radio silent for a few months at time. Because again, that doesn't mean shit when his companion still has more content than other ones currently in the game. There is absolutely 0 reason for something this drastic unless Berwyn was SEVERELY behind in terms of content and they had to catch him up to speed. Which we all know he wasn't, so I see absolutely zero reason to kick him.

Seriously this is the weakest justification for dev fuckery I've seen.

If you're baking a big ass cake, and I offer to give you the eggs, and then I hand you one egg and then sever all contact with you for a while, are you going to sit there and hope that I eventually come back with the rest of the eggs you need, or are you going to get the eggs elsewhere so that you can actually continue baking the cake?

This analogy is... how about I just make some bullet points and keep going?

• This cake doesn't have a time limit for its creation.
• Other people have given me less ingredients while promising them so why would I care about the egg guy this much?
• If the cake is not in a rush to be made(which this cake certainly isn't), then yeah I could stand to wait a bit.
• Instead of someone else getting regular eggs, this new person gave me half the eggs I needed and they were all lizard eggs.
• The cake can continue to be baked without the eggs.
• I would warn you to give me the eggs faster before deciding on another egg guy.
• I think I would have a sense of camaraderie with you after baking this cake together for so long. I would really try and keep you on as the egg guy if I could since it would suck to see you go.
• Even if you do randomly decide to stop giving me eggs, I could just go ask someone else to get the rest of the eggs I need then. Why go out of my way to get rid of my only egg guy?

 

[Meblue]

It's interesting to me to compare the behind the scenes on this game, to SPNATI

What the hell is SPNATI?

 

[BigSaltDeluxe]

Strip Poker Night at the Inventory. It's focused on the interactions between characters that anyone can write for. If a character hasn't been updated in a while, and someone is interested, they can ask and start working on the that character. 9I'm not sure of the specifics of working because I haven't tried my hand at it.)

Point being, everyone in the SPNATI community works together, instead of whatever the hell this is shaping up to be.

 

[Jötunn123]

That would work If it had started like that, but not when so many ego filled authors run the development.

 

[zwagon]

Did Fenoxo have any similar Crew related drama/issues?

Mostly off topic for this thread so not worth getting into it much, but fen has shown himself to be an asshole multiple times in the past. One incident that stands out is fen implementing the corrupt farm path after divorcing his ex-wife. Whitney was his ex-wife's fursona or something and until that divorce was never supposed to be sexable. Whether or not their divorce was bad, fen doing that to his ex-wife's fursona assumedly for revenge gives you an idea on what kind of person he is.

So, yeah, COC2 comes from a long line of people being toxic and shitty to others.

 

[CratorH8er]

Why you think I hate somebody I have never even interacted with and don't know anything about is beyond me. I couldn't give less of a fuck about Gardeford, Bubs, or any other writer on the team except for Wsan.

This also makes no sense even from your point of view. There is literally 0 difference between saying you're working on something or not saying anything in this situation. Why would claiming to be creating content even matter when that content is not being released?

But OK, I'll admit Hugs could've handled the situation better. However, I have to ask: Why did Savin feel the need to drop the fucking nuclear bomb that is booting out the writer to a companion? Unless Hugs was a CONSTANT problem child that was fucking things up a lot, I see no reason to boot him over something as ultimately trivial as going radio silent for a few months at time. Because again, that doesn't mean shit when his companion still has more content than other ones currently in the game. There is absolutely 0 reason for something this drastic unless Berwyn was SEVERELY behind in terms of content and they had to catch him up to speed. Which we all know he wasn't, so I see absolutely zero reason to kick him.

Seriously this is the weakest justification for dev fuckery I've seen.

The difference is communication. Maybe you've never worked on a group project or collaboration of any kind before, but when you're depending on someone to do something and they go radio silent without doing it, it becomes a pretty big issue, whereas if you're depending on someone to do something and they make it clear that it's still being worked on, you'll at least have the expectation that they'll still deliver on what is required of them eventually.

Gardeford went on to say that Hugs had some anger issues and was not the easiest person to work with, so it's likely that him going radio silent was one of several issues that contributed to being ousted. If you believe him or not is up to you, he's the only one on the team who's been up front about the situation publicly.

 

[Jötunn123]

Some time anger problems are issues but there also those that are more passive aggressive in their behaviour instead. When I worked on school group projects, I actually preferred those that showed anger rather than being passive aggressive, you can actually understand someone that is angry, hard to figure out passive aggression until the end, at which it's often too late.

 

[Evizzy89]

Mostly off topic for this thread so not worth getting into it much, but fen has shown himself to be an asshole multiple times in the past. One incident that stands out is fen implementing the corrupt farm path after divorcing his ex-wife. Whitney was his ex-wife's fursona or something and until that divorce was never supposed to be sexable. Whether or not their divorce was bad, fen doing that to his ex-wife's fursona assumedly for revenge gives you an idea on what kind of person he is.

So, yeah, COC2 comes from a long line of people being toxic and shitty to others.

but i thought savin was the cuck, or are they both cucks

 

[Jötunn123]

Spending years working on a hentai furry game that was mostly funded by donations. I'm not trying to be hypocritical or anything, but it doesn't seem like something that his wife might have enjoyed.

Just a silly guess though, it's possible that she was fine with it and something else happened between them.

 

[VeryMeta]

It's amazing how one of the key takeaways from the CoC2 development cycle seems to be about the importance of something as 'elementary' as communication, both in terms of inter-dev/writer communications and communications between devs/writers and the audience. I know WSan has contended that if the devs hadn't just dropped the "Berry is fucking dead" as a done deal the drama would have been even worse, but I simply don't believe that. For example, even writing an apologetic blogpost talking about how the B Berry project wasn't working (shortly after it became internally apparent that that was the case) would have softened the blow and given Berry enjoyers some time to adjust to the unfortunate new reality.

Similarly, I've written in the past about my issues with the TOBS writing tone, specifically how it clashes so so much with the VAST majority of the other content available for CoC2. This discrepancy would be either resolved or if not resolved, mitigated, by actually having the writers talk to each other about what they wanted to write, what themes they wanted their characters, and the game as a whole, to have, and basically just trying to create an actually coherent product rather than a strange amalgamation of a bunch of very distinct and different ideas and styles.

 

[undyingrevenant]

I really hope eventually they start building on what they have instead of more one shot npcs. Especially weird with the random "no bars" comments tobs made when their current design is closer to "a bar every square". They're labeling too many characters "complete" too early and adding in stuff like "well we want a random futa with a harem" "who is she" "a futa with a harem duh". It'd be nice to have fewer characters with more content and personality, and if they're not interesting enough to continue writing for them they probably shouldn't have been made in the first place. If you want the "it's a smut game bro" shield then give characters more positions or additional kinks. I mean I'd assume theyll add more "eventuallyTM" for some but you've got stuff like kinus entire life story while kiyoko fades into the background and taldahs stares off into the void

 

[LandBeach]

The difference is communication. Maybe you've never worked on a group project or collaboration of any kind before, but when you're depending on someone to do something and they go radio silent without doing it, it becomes a pretty big issue, whereas if you're depending on someone to do something and they make it clear that it's still being worked on, you'll at least have the expectation that they'll still deliver on what is required of them eventually.

Gardeford went on to say that Hugs had some anger issues and was not the easiest person to work with, so it's likely that him going radio silent was one of several issues that contributed to being ousted. If you believe him or not is up to you, he's the only one on the team who's been up front about the situation publicly.

This game's communication in general is terrible though.

Also, does Savin have his dnd thing or whatever still going on?