Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.33] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Shiro15]

So Kiyoko is abusive, there are very little signs pointing to that in-game, and the Champ can do literally nothing about it. Perfect game design, I see nothing wrong with that.

For real though, I don't understand anything about what's going on though. Kiyoko makes food for the Champ every time they visit her but not her own children? None of your children speak to you about the abuse going on, even in passing? Kinu is just fine with this happening despite her being able to run away to the Champ anytime this kind of shit happens? TOBS knows it's okay to get help with abuse, right? This can still be a story about a woman becoming her own person even if she gets just a little help from her father. Suffering on your own ISN'T a good thing, TOBS.

I don't know why he's obsessed with making every Kitsune a broken piece of shit while also putting them on pedastal. Does he think that makes them deep or something? Because it doesn't.

Could even turn into a corruption path, as the champion could push Kiyoko to be more controlling (don't why anyone would) or the can push her to be more relaxed. And have Kinu (get pushed to be more rebelious) or more (submissive). Personally, I don't like any of these paths.

I think adding a middle road route ( I would call it the harmony route, which would be very on theme with Japanese culture) that leads to you family mostly reconciling most of there problems. Gives Tobs his Asian themed story, and players the freedom to interact with their family in a meaningful way.

 

[Kuritzkale]

Excerpt from The Observer's novella Daughter's Desire

Jesus christ, that is like... completely demented. Maybe it's unfair to get upset at something that isn't in the game, but what is wrong with this dude? It's a fucking PORN GAME. A PORN GAME WHERE THE MAIN VILLAIN HAS A HUGE 2 FOOT LONG HORSE COCK. You do not need to write this weird melodramatic bullshit for your characters. It also just makes him seem super creepy? How old is he? This either seems like an outlet for teen angst or like, some weird fetish. At least he seems moderately better at writing this stuff than he does at writing good porn.

 

[CluelessReader]

snip

So, Tobs believes that players wanting to take care of their child is some sick form of sexual attraction, yet somehow he thinks that this is fine parenting? I'm at the point where I fully believe that he'll add an option to give her some sort of item she was talking about needing, and he'll end up trying to frame it in a way that implies The Player is trying to buy her for 'services' or something similar.

At this point it feels like I'm reading stuff I would have wrote back in 8th grade as a way to cope with 'my parents are mean and unfair to me'

 

[Shiro15]

snip

I still think its an overreaction. It would need something more to get to the point of just slapping Kinu. I get that its implied that Kinu and Kiyoko are constantly at each others throats due to the time skip. And have multiple years of history that we the player would not be aware of, but Tobs choose to skip ahead and age up to adult-hood. So, it is on him to make the story work, which right now its not for me. And based on how it just a past time around here to dunk on every writing choice they make or question what there relationship was with the parents. I would say they should really reevaluate their story.

 

[RenH]

Though I like that energy, and agree tonally this is out of place. This is Observer's fuck up this time. We can dunk on Tobs later. I'm sure they'll do something to piss everyone off.

...you do know that Tobs is shorthand for The Observer, right?

 

[Heremus]

And have multiple years of history that we the player would not be aware of, but Tobs choose to skip ahead and age up to adult-hood. So, it is on him to make the story work, which right now its not for me. And based on how it just a past time around here to dunk on every writing choice they make or question what there relationship was with the parents.

I know that it's a weird instance of time within that dimension, but shouldn't we also be asking how fast Kitsune grow up, too? Wouldn't that mess with the presumed years worth of skipped time? Because of how the pregnancy system works with Kiyoko (Even outside of the Amulet), they still progressively speed up the gestation rate of the child from essence draining, so wouldn't this apply to them casually living, and energy draining speeding up their physically aged appearance?

 

[Shiro15]

...you do know that Tobs is shorthand for The Observer, right?

I do now. Also didn't realize this Bastard was calling themself The Observer. Which is a red flag for me. People who tend to speak of themselves in the third person tend to be extreme narcissist or at the very least have some form of self-esteem issue. (Even if this is just his online persona.)

 

[Shiro15]

I know that it's a weird instance of time within that dimension, but shouldn't we also be asking how fast Kitsune grow up, too? Wouldn't that mess with the presumed years worth of skipped time?

Absolutely, agree. Time travel or a characters body aging rapidly is a nightmare to write imo. Time travel almost never works out the way people want, and usually leads to massive continuity issues. One that stands out to me, with this story is we know that Kiyoko has been trapped in that space for 5 generations. As Komari took over the den 5 Generations ago when everyone presumed Kiyoko died. (Which doesn't even make sense as Keros controls her soul. I'm not exactly sure of all the rules for the communal soul thing, but you're telling me Keros can't track his Kitsune's or tell if their psychical body is gone. What's the purpose of him having their souls then.)

Now, Komari (who was about the same age as Kiyoko before Kiyoko caught trapped, is now older since she existed in normal time) controlling the den for 5 generations would imply time moves very slowly in Kiyoko's den. But, we also know that Kiyoko has an accelerated pregnancy for reasons (It might be explained somewhere, but I'm not sure why Sex speed up the process) So she can pop baby's out fast. Now this where things get even more fucked because Kinu goes from being a baby to 10 years old really fast. But, because of Rindo we know Kitsune baby's age at a rate similar to humans. So Kinu's rapid age is due to the den. (I'm assuming) This would mean time is not consistent or actually progresses faster than we are lead to believe. But then why isn't Kiyoko getting older. Lets also not forget that we can impregnate Kiyoko multiple times and give Kinu multiple sibling who also age, but Kinu remains 10, Kiyoko remains in her prime, but her siblings age up. (why?)

I think the reason the story is this way is because Tobs hasn't thought about how his time mechanics work, and he just wants to age Kinu up quickly for his angst drama. Fuck rules he wants his story of an independent woman, that don't need daddy or mommy to tell her what to do. This is a bigger issue then the idiotic cumpire situation. As it completely fucks up Kinu and Kiyoko's story. It also fucks with the lore surrounding the other Kitsunes (mostly Komari) It get worse when Keros does free them (I could be wrong here) but I believe Keros deliberately messes with time to age Kinu and Kiyoko up. Which once again Kiyoko stays mostly the same while the children age up. Kiyoko has essentially existed for 6 or seven generations due to all the time changes. Now Komari maintains a somewhat youthful appearance, but this is due to her being a spirit. (And wanting to actually die) Kiyoko should have died, as we know they only live for 80-150 years by the rules established by the wiki (but that shits out of date so, why am I even using it)

Edit: (No where is this explained in lore to my knowledge, so this is purely a theory) But, if Keros having Kiyoko's soul, he would possibly know she's not dead. And either could have people search for her, or find her himself and rescue her. Thus his reasoning for punishing Komari is largely BS.

Now I know some people are going say a lot of this is just theory, but the reason I'm trying head canon or theorize why things are the way that they are, is because the story has established certain rules, and then breaks those rules. This has lead to me to try and figure out whats going on. My immersion has been broken. This something writers should never lose control of. If the writer wants readers to speculate on topic it needs to be deliberate.

A good example of this comes in the book the Giver. At the end of the book we have no idea if Jonas has been captured, is sharing a memory with Gabreil, or has died of hypothermia. It's intentionally ambiguous and depending on your personality you can speculate on an ending, due to the rules of the story. What canon you chose is your choice as the story is open ended.

But, here in Tob's writing were given rules, but those rules change at the whim of Tobs, and no longer make any sense, and now nothing surrounding the events is consistent with the lore. This would require a massive rewrite to make it work.

Also if I'm wrong about anything, go ahead and correct me. Even if there are areas we're I messed up, I'd still say much of this stuff is convoluted at the very least.

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

I do now. Also didn't realize this Bastard was calling themself The Observer. Which is a red flag for me. People who tend to speak of themselves in the third person tend to be extreme narcissist or at the very least have some form of self-esteem issue. (Even if this is just his online persona.)

More Like TheObsolete

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

To be completely fair, I cut it there partly for max shit post value, it continues with Kiyoko being upset that she could have been killed from someone seeing her weapon and putting two and two together, and it's also farmer kinu and not princess kinu, with farmer kinu rarely but occasionally doing stuff of her own like the "disciplining" her sister scene in her orb stage, but i dunno that really doesn't come across as tough love, at all, especially the way kiyokos described, and with kinu having to do absolutely everything then her mother insulting her for saying "hey mom". It also mentions later that kiyoko doesn't care about who kinu liked, she'd force them apart, which makes kinu bang hitoshi to get pregnant and force a marriage.

Also shows hitoshi killing one of the masked assassins with a farming tool to protect her, getting a large wound then hauling it back to a party the den was having and dumping it on the ground to show them. Nakano just friggin sucks, kiyoko has a garbage judge of character. Even tobs seems to have a bias towards farmer kinu, and it fits his whole thing he's wanting to do of her being a strong indepandent wahmen instead of needing help from her family. Combining the story and the main game, hitoshis a farmer willing to fight to protect her and likes her, shares her interests and lifestyle, while nakano is a good for nothing glorious anime death seeker whose only action so far fighting the assassins has been to clean hitoshis wound.

I really, really don't get why from any storytelling perspective at all that nakano, a glory seeking samurai wannabe eager to die in a blaze of glory etc hasn't got involved with princess kinus stuff at all. For gods sake have him sneak after her to the ways between, have a heart to heart when he's ready to die to ensure she escapes but she says she loves him and they escape together, he realizes he has something to live for, something. He's such a complete waste. The farmers more ba and a husband than you bro, just go ahead and commit sudoku in minecraft

Figure that simpleton TOBSOLETE cant even include the champion on whatever fucking happening on kitsune den
If i understand shit on javascript i will make mod that My sexy OC champion will fuck kinu's spouse till they become my corrupted fox sex slave and force her to watch with kiyoko in despair
Fuck my hatred for tobs turn me into a degenerate slut

 

[Biostar]

Kinu is just fine with this happening despite her being able to run away to the Champ anytime this kind of shit happens? TOBS knows it's okay to get help with abuse, right? This can still be a story about a woman becoming her own person even if she gets just a little help from her father.

Woah there, keep it in your pants buddy. This is a family game. Don't sexualize your daughter like that.

 

[A Burning Conscience]

Excerpt from The Observer's novella Daughter's Desire

Well at least this was more naked than his toned down insertions of it into the game. There's a Kinu lesson scene in the orb, where she's tortured herself for over a week trying to get a Charm correct because Kiyoko told her she fucked it up. Thing is she didn't, she got it perfectly on the first attempt, but Kiyoko couldn't bare the thought of Kinu being better so she lied and then watched for over a week as Kinu brought herself to physical pain and exhaustion to try and get it right.
The scene ends with Kiyoko confessing what she did after Kinu presents the charm to her again, saying that she didn't want Kinu to outgrow her.

That and the weapons training scene were enough for me to know she was abusive. But then at this point we all know that Kiyoko is garbage through and through. Racist, child beating, narcissistic, garbage. It's just the filth we saw in game, was watered down from the source.

Oh final cat watch, I've done everything again at this point that I can with a pure, male, Kitsune hating Champ:
Brienne mentions Cait to her mother as the person who helped her learn to be a woman. It's a miracle Bri turned out as she did.

I'm sure there will be some childbirth scenes with Cait in them as she seems to be the midwife character for some writers, but otherwise I didn't even get Cait dreams when I turned silly mode back on. So yes, Cait is referenced a lot even as a none party member, but you can complete the game and later content is better about excluding her.

 

[LandBeach]

Absolutely, agree. Time travel or a characters body aging rapidly is a nightmare to write imo. Time travel almost never works out the way people want, and usually leads to massive continuity issues. One that stands out to me, with this story is we know that Kiyoko has been trapped in that space for 5 generations. As Komari took over the den 5 Generations ago when everyone presumed Kiyoko died. (Which doesn't even make sense as Keros controls her soul. I'm not exactly sure of all the rules for the communal soul thing, but you're telling me Keros can't track his Kitsune's or tell if their psychical body is gone. What's the purpose of him having their souls then.)

Now, Komari (who was about the same age as Kiyoko before Kiyoko caught trapped, is now older since she existed in normal time) controlling the den for 5 generations would imply time moves very slowly in Kiyoko's den. But, we also know that Kiyoko has an accelerated pregnancy for reasons (It might be explained somewhere, but I'm not sure why Sex speed up the process) So she can pop baby's out fast. Now this where things get even more fucked because Kinu goes from being a baby to 10 years old really fast. But, because of Rindo we know Kitsune baby's age at a rate similar to humans. So Kinu's rapid age is due to the den. (I'm assuming) This would mean time is not consistent or actually progresses faster than we are lead to believe. But then why isn't Kiyoko getting older. Lets also not forget that we can impregnate Kiyoko multiple times and give Kinu multiple sibling who also age, but Kinu remains 10, Kiyoko remains in her prime, but her siblings age up. (why?)

I think the reason the story is this way is because Tobs hasn't thought about how his time mechanics work, and he just wants to age Kinu up quickly for his angst drama. Fuck rules he wants his story of an independent woman, that don't need daddy or mommy to tell her what to do. This is a bigger issue then the idiotic cumpire situation. As it completely fucks up Kinu and Kiyoko's story. It also fucks with the lore surrounding the other Kitsunes (mostly Komari) It get worse when Keros does free them (I could be wrong here) but I believe Keros deliberately messes with time to age Kinu and Kiyoko up. Which once again Kiyoko stays mostly the same while the children age up. Kiyoko has essentially existed for 6 or seven generations due to all the time changes. Now Komari maintains a somewhat youthful appearance, but this is due to her being a spirit. (And wanting to actually die) Kiyoko should have died, as we know they only live for 80-150 years by the rules established by the wiki (but that shits out of date so, why am I even using it)

Edit: (No where is this explained in lore to my knowledge, so this is purely a theory) But, if Keros having Kiyoko's soul, he would possibly know she's not dead. And either could have people search for her, or find her himself and rescue her. Thus his reasoning for punishing Komari is largely BS.

Now I know some people are going say a lot of this is just theory, but the reason I'm trying head canon or theorize why things are the way that they are, is because the story has established certain rules, and then breaks those rules. This has lead to me to try and figure out whats going on. My immersion has been broken. This something writers should never lose control of. If the writer wants readers to speculate on topic it needs to be deliberate.

A good example of this comes in the book the Giver. At the end of the book we have no idea if Jonas has been captured, is sharing a memory with Gabreil, or has died of hypothermia. It's intentionally ambiguous and depending on your personality you can speculate on an ending, due to the rules of the story. What canon you chose is your choice as the story is open ended.

But, here in Tob's writing were given rules, but those rules change at the whim of Tobs, and no longer make any sense, and now nothing surrounding the events is consistent with the lore. This would require a massive rewrite to make it work.

Also if I'm wrong about anything, go ahead and correct me. Even if there are areas we're I messed up, I'd still say much of this stuff is convoluted at the very least.

There's other books that end up revealing what happened to Jonas.

 

[Daken9]

Mindboggling thing about Kiyoko's behaviour is that, as usual, we're just powerless spectators to it. Can't call her out on it, can't help your daughter character through it, and if you do help her with anything else then you're punished by having her turn into her mother, which in any story with an ounce of self-awereness would be explained away as the cycle of shittiness perpetuating while in this one it just be tuesday. But really, no reason to put that shit in even if Kiyoko had a legit character arc through it. Mother neglecting and abusing her 5 year old kid cause jealous is just above and beyond shit you put into a character people are supposed to like/grow to like.

Imo, Kiyoko's friction should have been with the Champion, not the kid. Should've started out cool and aloof and then gradually warmed up to them as the literally sheltered royalty realized barbarians aren't so bad (--> barbarian angle actually used for something other than lulz). Bitches with a heart of gold who double as surprisingly good mothers are hot (eg. Morrigan and Yennefer), bitches who shittalk their husbands right after they've gone through a 349058346954645 word non-interactive adventure to help them out and make a living out of shitting on their kids are just a hot turd.

 

[Quintilus]

If i understand shit on javascript i will make mod that My sexy OC champion will fuck kinu's spouse till they become my corrupted fox sex slave and force her to watch with kiyoko in despair

Start writing it then, Ill add it.

 

[undyingrevenant]

Well at least this was more naked than his toned down insertions of it into the game. There's a Kinu lesson scene in the orb, where she's tortured herself for over a week trying to get a Charm correct because Kiyoko told her she fucked it up. Thing is she didn't, she got it perfectly on the first attempt, but Kiyoko couldn't bare the thought of Kinu being better so she lied and then watched for over a week as Kinu brought herself to physical pain and exhaustion to try and get it right.
The scene ends with Kiyoko confessing what she did after Kinu presents the charm to her again, saying that she didn't want Kinu to outgrow her.

That and the weapons training scene were enough for me to know she was abusive. But then at this point we all know that Kiyoko is garbage through and through. Racist, child beating, narcissistic, garbage. It's just the filth we saw in game, was watered down from the source.

Oh final cat watch, I've done everything again at this point that I can with a pure, male, Kitsune hating Champ:
Brienne mentions Cait to her mother as the person who helped her learn to be a woman. It's a miracle Bri turned out as she did.

I'm sure there will be some childbirth scenes with Cait in them as she seems to be the midwife character for some writers, but otherwise I didn't even get Cait dreams when I turned silly mode back on. So yes, Cait is referenced a lot even as a none party member, but you can complete the game and later content is better about excluding her.

... Ya know, I remember the charm scene, but it never occured to me the level of f'ed up it was until you put it plainly like that. Honestly now I've got more understanding of Bubble Lord's original proposal of her banging takahiro, originally it was because he didn't read her concept, but even if he had it's really not a stretch to say she banged someone else to "teach the PC a lesson", maybe they hadn't visited in a while or didn't follow correct etiquette. Heck, it even follows the whole keros motto of "doing cruel things to teach lessons" or whatever. Basically being the mental abuse ntr equivalent to dom Aronas physical abuse ntr.

Jaysus how hard is it to just write a tali or garrus clone for example with a shit ton of crazy sex scenes and wholesome family stuff, if any. Make kiyoko the generic, medium sprawling ARA ARA MAH MAH character thats scary when angry but not *beats children* angry, mama bear angry. Throw the culture critique crap out the window, grab yourself a monster girl encyclopedia, pick one, and go ham, or look up yokai and go ham. Dommy mommy hachishaku etc.

 

[A Burning Conscience]

So Kiyoko is abusive, there are very little signs pointing to that in-game, and the Champ can do literally nothing about it. Perfect game design, I see nothing wrong with that.

For real though, I don't understand anything about what's going on though. Kiyoko makes food for the Champ every time they visit her but not her own children? None of your children speak to you about the abuse going on, even in passing? Kinu is just fine with this happening despite her being able to run away to the Champ anytime this kind of shit happens? TOBS knows it's okay to get help with abuse, right? This can still be a story about a woman becoming her own person even if she gets just a little help from her father. Suffering on your own ISN'T a good thing, TOBS.

I don't know why he's obsessed with making every Kitsune a broken piece of shit while also putting them on pedestal. Does he think that makes them deep or something? Because it doesn't.

I really like some the points here. The abuse is subtly suggested in the Kinu training scenes and when you ask Kiyoko about her. Kiyoko never has anything nice to say about young Kinu, it's all that strained double speak that TOBS is infatuated with. But the fact that you pick up on some of it, and you get to see the Kinu perspective scenes, mean that you the audience can learn about it and, as you say, can do nothing about it.

The main thing though, is this shows what TOBS sees these characters as and his vision in its purist form. Kinu is the important one who must go through great hardship to earn her importance. Kiyoko and her traditional ways are something to rebel against and is two-faced and shallow. Champ is a no-show in Kinu's life, just some distant figure she can never look to for help, you're not her parent, your Kiyoko's sperm donor. And why? Because TOBS thinks her suffering through all this will make her stronger, that she'll learn from it, otherwise her significance won't be justified. When in reality she'd probably suffer from Battered Woman's Syndrome and be a far too grim a story for this game.

And all of this...
Has nothing to do with Kassyria, Savarra, Corruption of Champions, or reality as a whole.
It's just his shitty fan-fiction, ripped off from princess maker, that Savin let him insert into his game, which was a rip off of Fen's game.
The Matroska doll of bad porn games.
Or as someone better with memes might say. CoC2 writing is like an onion, it has layers. And all of them make you want to cry.

 

[Thisguy2]

I know that it's a weird instance of time within that dimension, but shouldn't we also be asking how fast Kitsune grow up, too? Wouldn't that mess with the presumed years worth of skipped time? Because of how the pregnancy system works with Kiyoko (Even outside of the Amulet), they still progressively speed up the gestation rate of the child from essence draining, so wouldn't this apply to them casually living, and energy draining speeding up their physically aged appearance?

Meaning it applies that either young Kinu had ALOT of sex with whatever random dude/kitsune that came into the amulet or Kiyoko was straight feeding Kinu the player characters cum in order for her to grow so fast, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to that little weirdo Tobs and say he just grew the character up out of pure spite so it would fit his "parents shouldn't be in their kids lives and if they are then just wanna fuck them" mindset and didn't even think about his own lore he made up. But then again this is the same dude that commissioned porn of Kinu getting fucked by his own self insert ocs as a way to "own the degenerate players" so i'm not gonna.

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

Woah there, keep it in your pants buddy. This is a family game. Don't sexualize your daughter like that.

Nah i wont do shit on kinu
just her weeb ghost of tsushima lover or that peasant farmer

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

But then again this is the same dude that commissioned porn of Kinu getting fucked by his own self insert ocs .

yoooo what the tobs doin