Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.35] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[dolosolo]

it still blows me how in the first game, for a very substantial part of it, the player could choose to be an abhorrent monster. With a much more functional corruption mechanic too like it was immersive. even if you didn't choose to be terrible, the divergent path still added to the fantasy of being heroic or righteous. the severely toned down diverging paths in the current game make me feel like all villian/hero/traveler fantasy is headcannon, as if I'm on rails being righteous. most coc1 dungeons are: survive these agents of chaos adventurer, or fail lol who cares. while most coc2 dungeons are: you must save us champion !!, different dialog isnt nearly enough, the player almost never feels in danger of succumbing to corruption. and if you don't like romancing kasyrra then youre really left out to dry. no corrupted hive, centaur village, or khorminos makes me feel like that anyways. no corrupt khorminos(it was cut right?) is such a fumble bc it would have been massive for the pc's character, moreso than the hive and village. the choice to save the city or let it fall, feedback for player choice wow please i really needed that. instead of being railroaded into a saved city, adds nothing to my connection with my character. I see my character as a faceless bag looking for another npc to add to the wayfort. a world moves with or without you, one that you can intervene in, is intensely more immersive than one that only progresses by you.

The lupine dungeon in all of its modularity and path choices was what i expected from the entire game, when it first launched. an even more robust web of upped ante and player choice. for something meaningful to happen at various corruption levels, more than just gear. more than switched dialog. more than a pocketful of characters. more pressing struggles with doing what's right, having to make the hard choice, being unable to save everybody idk i wish corruption was actually a character here like the flood in halo, not 1 to 1 but menacing in presence. and choosing how to combat it is defining for our character and instrumental for the bond with them. im actually feeling kindof stupid for wanting a porn game to deliver that

 

[PixelLewd]

also women with dicks arent niche they're taboo

So I know its been awhile since this comment got made, but it kept nagging me and I want to ask.......why are dick girls/futa's taboo? Far as I know the closest phenomenon we have to that in nature/real life is nowhere near common enough for that to be true in any culture or religion.

Unless my ass is being retarded and you were referring to somewhere fictional where its the case? I'm just honestly confused and curious why you specifically used taboo over say weird, looked down upon, or I'm sure for some people/cases disgusting

 

[dolosolo]

Unless my ass is being retarded and you were referring to somewhere fictional where its the case? I'm just honestly confused and curious why you specifically used taboo over say weird, looked down upon, or I'm sure for some people/cases disgusting

im american, i was talking about irl trans women and fictional futa. trans healthcare was a major republican talking point during our last election, and rights are being legislated away. here its very common to be scared to present or be visibly trans. its common to be violent towards trans women. its common to be secretive about being attracted to trans women. its accepted to be homophobic towards people who are attracted to trans women or see trans women as women, fictional futa too. i used taboo because i feel like the best case scenario for all people involved here to be safe is to be invisible, which i think is wrong,

 

[PixelLewd]

im american, i was talking about irl trans women and fictional futa. trans healthcare was a major republican talking point during our last election, and rights are being legislated away. here its very common to be scared to present or be visibly trans. its common to be violent towards trans women. its common to be secretive about being attracted to trans women. its accepted to be homophobic towards people who are attracted to trans women or see trans women as women, fictional futa too. i used taboo because i feel like the best case scenario for all people involved here to be safe is to be invisible, which i think is wrong,

I see then. Because I'd rather not bog down this thread with all the baggage that subject can bring, I'll just say that is definitely your opinion to have on that subject, and we can agree to disagree on the finer points. Either way have a nice day and thanks for indulging my question

 

[MarvintheBee]

-snip-

Corrupted Khorminos is definetly axed.

But maybe we will get still get to corupt some Npcs there. There have been hints... (or maybe it's the cope talking but you never know.)

--All that Izma talk--

Honestly don't hold back on our behalf, I just love learning more about the history of the coc community.
And now talk like this makes way more sense.


(don't know how huge the part of "forumites" were responsible but still, that adds a lot of context)

 

[Yeppers34]

Corrupted Khorminos is definetly axed.
View attachment 4475040
But maybe we will get still get to corupt some Npcs there. There have been hints... (or maybe it's the cope talking but you never know.)

Honestly don't hold back on our behalf, I just love learning more about the history of the coc community.
And now talk like this makes way more sense.
View attachment 4475059
View attachment 4475060
(don't know how huge the part of "forumites" were responsible but still, that adds a lot of context)

No corrupt khor'minos is both disappointing and also not surprising but at this point I just want them to be done with the place already.

 

[=Cheezeburger_n'_Fries=]

So... is there a chance that this game is going to be modded in the far future?

I said far because I don't know when the development of this game is going to end.

 

[thecatcameback]

So... is there a chance that this game is going to be modded in the far future?

I said far because I don't know when the development of this game is going to end.

How many decades ya got left in the tank?

 

[Walk Cycle]

You absolutely can mod the game right now. There's a user here that has a hate boner for Wsan that removed all of his content and I think added new ones. I dunno if they're still here, I blocked them because they're a native Chinese speaker and whatever translator they use hurts to read.

 

[Vyran22]

Corrupted Khorminos is definetly axed.
View attachment 4475040

Why do they even bother bringing it up as a concept when there is no concrete plan to get it done? Just like the corrupt hive, if you don't have a commitment from someone to get it done and with an outline at least started why even bring it up as a possibility? All it looks like is that you are under-delivering and with how frequently this seems to happen it only looks like you are doing it on purpose.

I guess that means Khorminos is done right? We can move on and leave it all behind right? Because there is no point in getting involved with their politics, like you can at the Royal dinner, if the only option is to see how many members of this royal family you can fuck, they may as well been any other kind of NPC.

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Like it is possibly the most easiest route to affect corruption on the city on a wide scale, you literally have an in with either: the Princess, the Prince (possibly in the future I guess), the King, a Senator, or some combination of them. Hell you could probably count Octavia too, as an even more insidious route to try and cause chaos. The player has an in with the highest people of authority in the city, bending their ear and corrupting them is not that ridiculous a concept, what happens afterwards and the effects it may have on other content is clearly the hang up they don't want to deal with as was said:

The summary of the above statements is this.
If you wanted to be a 3rd party writer, you'd write around tons of restrictions, have no control over things you write, have half of the roster be untouchable, have meta reasons blocking things you want to write (like B being barred from making a F/F pregnancy for Zo), and generally have to goose-step around every decision.

So where were those corruption writers supposed to come from and exactly what were they even going to be allowed to do?

Only now it is either a bunch of work for someone else who has to do it on eggshells with both hands tied behind their back or a member of the staff has to take authority of it along with all the flak and shit from people upset about how there might be consequences for their actions, like say one of their favorite NPCs vanishing, because their creator doesn't feel like doing the extra work that incorporate them into a new environment, even if maybe having that kind of character duality would actually create a reason to start a new file beyond the reason of your old one getting dusted.

I doubt even Savin would want to piss off that many other writers by making unilateral changes to and entire city of characters, because it would just push them more away, cause more development friction, and probably ultimately cause more writers to leave thus giving him more work, something I am certain he does his best to avoid.

So we're stuck. Any meaningful corruption content can't exist, because it would have to basically be ordered by Savin that if you want to write a character you have to make a corrupted version if the space they are in gets corrupted, which would create more work for him and his circle as well so he wouldn't be a fan of it either. The very least they could do is make it so your corruption score will lock you out of interactions with certain NPCs, which may already be present in some form, but I doubt anyone would really be happy with such a weak compromise. May as well just convert Corruption into slut score and have it close off marriage options once it gets high enough or something, maybe unlock some depraved scenes with

Spoiler: lewd

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or something I don't know.

 

[TalRash4]

Spoiler: lewd

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or something I don't know.

(shocked gasp)
Such degeneracy!
I would love to see content like this.

 

[Gameguy614]

Only now it is either a bunch of work for someone else who has to do it on eggshells with both hands tied behind their back or a member of the staff has to take authority of it along with all the flak and shit from people upset about how there might be consequences for their actions, like say one of their favorite NPCs vanishing, because their creator doesn't feel like doing the extra work that incorporate them into a new environment, even if maybe having that kind of character duality would actually create a reason to start a new file beyond the reason of your old one getting dusted.

I doubt even Savin would want to piss off that many other writers by making unilateral changes to and entire city of characters, because it would just push them more away, cause more development friction, and probably ultimately cause more writers to leave thus giving him more work, something I am certain he does his best to avoid.

I’m honestly at a juncture where I can’t help but have the view point of “don’t make your passion your job”, boomer as it may be.
Make hard-lines, or do the work and deal with the complaints. I get that coding takes a great deal of time and effort, but this is a text game running on a glorified flash system, that still has a litany of grammatical errors. I know we’re agreeing but like, you can’t ask for money, give paltry updates, say a lot more work than we see goes into the project, and then have issues that go unsolved for literal years.
How long ago was it that the initial corrupt lupine encounter got implemented? And it still has parser and grammar problems?

 

[MarvintheBee]

Why do they even bother bringing it up as a concept when there is no concrete plan to get it done? Just like the corrupt hive, if you don't have a commitment from someone to get it done and with an outline at least started why even bring it up as a possibility? All it looks like is that you are under-delivering and with how frequently this seems to happen it only looks like you are doing it on purpose.

Look I know things getting axed is frustating especially if you were looking forward to it, but we have to be a bit lenient on Savin and co.
In game development stuff gets scrapped all the time, you have so many ideas you want to work on only to realize half way through: "Shit this is way too much or we can't do this, that is way to complicated".
This is proven again and again anytime some new beta stuff about some games gets leaked, at some point in development these games could have been looking completely different or had way more features planned. (super mario 64 had a multiplayer mode planned just as an example.)
The only problem with Coc2 is that we can actually follow the develpmont of the game in real time, so we actually get to see those Ideas getting scrapped or redone. (finally found it)

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Do we really want to spend another 2 years in KM?
Maybe, some wouldn't mind but we also would have another content drought in that period.
It's a lose lose for everyone.

 

[Alterism]

we have to be a bit lenient on Savin and co.

This project is 7 years old and if you look through the early years worth of posts, people were lenient for three, (closer to four) years.

The point of critique is not that things get cut, at all. It's what gets cut or endlessly pushed back and how consistently it is. An entire aspect of the games namesake (corruption) conveniently keeps being placed on the chopping block through either a lack of will or skill.

Due to this project being 7 years old, we've gained the ability to see patterns and draw inferences from them. If this was some younger project then sure. But it's not. Generations of posters have come and gone in this thread, many of whom had none of their grievances assuaged before they gave up on the project. So we get new posters who see things are the way they are, read pages of people essentially confirming that things will never change the way that they are, check how many years this has been cooking, and correctly assume they will only ever be this way.

With that said, what brought me here was

super mario 64 had a multiplayer mode planned just as an example.

That idea ended up surviving the console it was intended on when they brought it back from the dead (in a bit of a limited fashion) for SM64 DS. Was pretty alright. I played it with friends after work back in the day.

Anyways, I can't think of many concepts, especially if they had anything to do with corruption, that survived CoC1 to end up in CoC2.
Most core features of that game were either scaled back, removed, or butchered.

 

[Gameguy614]

Why be lenient though? No one is lenient on game developers of any type and there’s always going to be people that are unhappy with your product.

Savin and Co. aren’t special and don’t deserve a pass from that, especially considering the fact that I imagine a good sized portion of this game’s player base are paying a monthly rate to them. I’m sure they can almost literally afford to incorporate everything they’ve promised into the game which, once again, is a glorified text based flash adventure. One that still has grammar and parser issues in a number of areas that will probably never be fixed.

We’re not talking some triple A game, or even double or single A game for that matter, where tens of thousands of hours of development are required with every update. These people purport this as their job and constantly make statements like the above when it’s convenient for them. Hire more people or take the time to make the updates that your fan base wants regardless of how long it would take. It’s been roughly 2 years I waited for the lupine dungeon to come out since it was promised with the update that incorporated the initial corrupt lupine enemy encounter, and it was worth the wait.

There are tons of people who consistently play this game who would wait patiently for corrupted KM to be a thing, me included (as stated above I waited roughly 2 years for a promised dungeon to be incorporated). It wouldn’t be nigh impossible, it would just take a lot of time and effort that they’re not willing to put in because as stated by the one in charge “corruption is icky and no one really likes writing it”. Compromise for the good of everyone? Please. Making fans happy hasn’t been on their radar for quite some time as far as I’m concerned. Other than the lupine dungeon, the last 6 months worth of updates have basically been full of either random one off scenes or content needlessly spread across multiple updates.

If I seem harsh it’s because I’ve followed this game for years and I have watched this team delve further and further into low effort mediocrity with every update while getting paid to do so.

Edit: edit to add again, because it can’t be stressed enough, that whether it be Savin and co. Or the army of sycophants they have on the forums, this seems to be the only place that legitimate gripes with the game can be levied. A recent update saw a commenter met with utter condescension and vitriol after simply stating they got slight AI vibes from a piece of art posted with the update and asked who the artist was, and then got gaslit that they were being the aggressive and out of line one and were overreacting when they defended themself. I replied to them that I didn’t think this was the case and one of the attackers came at me and basically lied about what happened a simple few comments above and made a crude comment to finish that implied I was sucking the guy off. Like really? I replied to the guy and lost my temper a bit but it’s still that type of behavior that I constantly see from the community that excuses the development team from being held or holding themselves to any sort of standard. The echo in that chamber is resounding

 

[Underswap]

what is a taxon?

 

[Gameguy614]

what is a taxon?

In this games context it’s probably referring to different species groupings. Only ever seen it used at taxonomy myself though

 

[Ilovekatz19]

what is a taxon?

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noun
a

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group of any rank, such as a species, family, or class.

In game it's used to group certain NPCs for the sake of certain stats, example NPCs with a Beast taxon all have a 75 weakness to Blight and Pheromone. Here's a

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of the different taxon types as well as what NPCs belong to what type.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

Look I know things getting axed is frustating especially if you were looking forward to it, but we have to be a bit lenient on Savin and co.

Leniency (like respect) is something one has to earn and, with all due respect, I find Savin's abilities to run the production of a sequel to CoC as trustworthy as a motor that melted off during a test drive.

I myself don't care about corruption but that's just part of the problem, in the end. The guy sabotaged his own game, whether by inaction or internal strife.

And that's not even the biggest elephant in the room.

Edit: edit to add again, because it can’t be stressed enough, that whether it be Savin and co. Or the army of sycophants they have on the forums, this seems to be the only place that legitimate gripes with the game can be levied. A recent update saw a commenter met with utter condescension and vitriol after simply stating they got slight AI vibes from a piece of art posted with the update and asked who the artist was, and then got gaslit that they were being the aggressive and out of line one and were overreacting when they defended themself. I replied to them that I didn’t think this was the case and one of the attackers came at me and basically lied about what happened a simple few comments above and made a crude comment to finish that implied I was sucking the guy off. Like really? I replied to the guy and lost my temper a bit but it’s still that type of behavior that I constantly see from the community that excuses the development team from being held or holding themselves to any sort of standard. The echo in that chamber is resounding

This. If it was just the guy fucking up the game, that would've at least been "contained". Forming an echo chamber on top was the last thing they needed.

 

[Jooj Cena]

Seeing the discussion and leaving my 2cents: I played both games. The first one I liked a lot since it was my first time seeing a game like that. The second one I actually liked aswell.
To me the first coc gave you "more freedom" because didn't have many dialogues, you just filled what you expected with your imagination. The second one adds too much dialogue, so much that you feel your character wouldnt do/say some stuff. Still, the thing that really bugs me is the lack of content for coc2. It has a decent amount if you go in for the first time, but if you already saw what you wanted, it's ~2 years to become worth playing again.
I already said it, but I think the problem with coc2 is the decision of going against mods. I just feel that if we had more support everyone could just add and download stuff you wanted to see and be happy.