Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.1] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Shiro15]

Hugs, by his own admission, also has severe mental health issues.

From what I understand he voluntarily quit because of said issues, then he spent a large amount of time bad mouthing the devs and instigating various bits of drama, which got him permanently banned.

Both sides sound suspicious to me. But, I largely find Hugs more credible. As if Hugs had abadoned his character they could have found someone else to work on it, besides B. As the devs knew B wanted to work on his own character and approved him to work on it, only to turn around and dump Berwyn onto him. There is no reason they had to do that, as if Hugs had quit due to their mental health or was forced out for their bad behavior they could have used the resources originally going to Hugs to hire a replacement writer and continued Berwyn's part in the story. Instead they choose to take B away from the content that they had promised B could work on. Only to say months later "its to hard so were axing this content."

Add to the fact that the dev's have been very public in their disinterest of writing male characters and unwillingness to hire a writer who is interested, it makes me not trust them. If they truly cared about continuing this content or the fans who wanted this content it shouldn't be any additional expense, as long as they hire a writer and pay them the same amount they were paying hugs.

 

[Skandranon]

Both sides sound suspicious to me. But, I largely find Hugs more credible. As if Hugs had abadoned his character they could have found someone else to work on it, besides B. As the devs knew B wanted to work on his own character and approved him to work on it, only to turn around and dump Berwyn onto him. There is no reason they had to do that, as if Hugs had quit due to their mental health or was forced out for their bad behavior they could have used the resources originally going to Hugs to hire a replacement writer and continued Berwyn's part in the story. Instead they choose to take B away from the content that he had promised them they could work on. Only to say months later "its to hard so were axing this content."

This isn't how it happened, according to either the devs or B .
B was assigned to finish Berwyn before Agni. In fact, I suspect part of the reason he earned a full companion slot in the first place was based on accepting to work on Berwyn.

Add to the fact that the dev's have been very public in their disinterest of writing male characters and unwillingness to hire a writer who is interested, it makes me not trust them. If they truly cared about continuing this content or the fans who wanted this content it shouldn't be any additional expense, as long as they hire a writer and pay them the same amount they were paying hugs.

What writers?

You're misunderstanding the problem with male content. The writers straight up don't exist.
The people who write for this game come from the community. They submit content, and get approved to write stuff. People who get a track record of submitting decent content get asked/paid to do more stuff. Some of them eventually make it to staff (Tobs), and some just stay prolific community writers (B).

The community is mostly uninterested in dudes. You can see it in the polls on Patreon and 4 chan, heck, you can see it in the posts here - male content fans are extremely low.

The reason there isn't enough male content is because noone is writing or submitting any.
You can easily just pop over to their submission forums and check how much submitted content is for males.

Spoilers: it's very, very low.

 

[Thedude715]

Hey dudes to add some light to this shitfest we have going on here, I thought to myself that I have not played coc1 in atleast a good 5-7 years or something damn it has been a while huh? So anyway I decided to download it with the popular Xianxia mod
and man does it add a LOT not all of it is perfect but most of it is good stuff, transformations actually make differences in scenes and can augment your stats to fit the race you look the most like minotaurs get boosted strength and toughness but less speed and int while elfs get basically the reverse and so on there are so many races to choose from. It also adds a shiton of perks and different build paths so yeah It is enjoyable as a rpg-rpg not as just a porn-rpg would highly recommend if you as me have not played it in a long time and want a break from coc2 with all that is going on.

Edit also found something pretty funny that they officially put in while browsing the wiki very topical look the special responses to names XD

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[Mandoto]

Hugs, by his own admission, also has severe mental health issues.

From what I understand he voluntarily quit because of said issues, then he spent a large amount of time bad mouthing the devs and instigating various bits of drama, which got him permanently banned.

I suppose we'll never know either way, but if I had to guess, whatever led to his ban was instigated by both parties. And while mental illness doesn't absolve Hugs from repercussions, I doubt what Hugs did was THAT bad, and it's pretty fucked up to basically delete something (without discussing it with him /letting him know) that he and others cared for out of spite . If his mental health is as poor as it seems, this could've ended a lot worse, over something so petty.

 

[Skandranon]

I suppose we'll never know either way, but if I had to guess, whatever led to his ban was instigated by both parties. And while mental illness doesn't absolve Hugs from repercussions, I doubt what Hugs did was THAT bad, and it's pretty fucked up to basically delete something (without discussing it with him /letting him know) that he and others cared for out of spite . If his mental health is as poor as it seems, this could've ended a lot worse, over something so petty.

Eh, not something we'll ever know for sure, so it's not something I dwell on. The dev drama isn't really an area I like paying attention to, further than figuring out who's writing what.

 

[Shiro15]

This isn't how it happened, according to either the devs or B .
B was assigned to finish Berwyn before Agni. In fact, I suspect part of the reason he earned a full companion slot in the first place was based on accepting to work on Berwyn.

Well this just makes me think less of B now, as if he was brought on to finish Berwyn and he decided it was to hard to work on and then abandoned it so he could work on Agni, why should I have confidence in Agni's writing? As the moment it gets too hard he'll just abandon her to. Which I imagine Agni is going to be harder, as she is a full companion. And yes I understand Berwyn was considered harder because of all the the transformations, but that was a decision they made. It wasn't there when Hugs was working on it. So they added an additional burden and gave up half way through, when it became to difficult.

You're misunderstanding the problem with male content. The writers straight up don't exist.
The people who write for this game come from the community. They submit content, and get approved to write stuff. People who get a track record of submitting decent content get asked/paid to do more stuff. Some of them eventually make it to staff (Tobs), and some just stay prolific community writers (B).

If the staff is basing it off of their own personal feelings, then that doesn't mean theres no male content writers. There is just no male content writers that they like, or who's submitted work they like. Which if they're not interested in that type of thing to begin with, it will never get in as the staff can gate keep who they allow onto the team. Because even in your own qoute, B started as a male content writer for Berwyn. But, I imagine that the staff probably only liked B's gender bent work on Berwyn and none of the male stuff.

 

[smithsmithsmith]

You're misunderstanding the problem with male content. The writers straight up don't exist.
The people who write for this game come from the community. They submit content, and get approved to write stuff. People who get a track record of submitting decent content get asked/paid to do more stuff. Some of them eventually make it to staff (Tobs), and some just stay prolific community writers (B).

It's an interesting little microcosm when compared to the wider furry community where m/m is far more prolific.

 

[Shiro15]

Eh, not something we'll ever know for sure, so it's not something I dwell on. The dev drama isn't really an area I like paying attention to, further than figuring out who's writing what.

I agree focusing on the drama is pointless and I don't really care. What ever beef the devs have with one another doesn't affect me. But, unfortunately all the drama is starting to seep into the game and is affecting the quality of the content. Writers abandoning their characters is nothing new with this games development, and if it continues to be a problem then the dev's need to address it. Imagine if wsan just decided to leave the game. What happens then? Do we just drop Khor'Minos, or do we drop Brint and Brienne? Imagine just dropping a key quest and a companion plus all the other content because one the person that was working on it left, and then telling the people paying on patreon or who bought the game on steam, sorry guess we won't finish the main quest cause our staff quit. That would be unacceptable.

 

[Skandranon]

Well this just makes me think less of B now, as if he was brought on to finish Berwyn and he decided it was to hard to work on and then abandoned it so he could work on Agni, why should I have confidence in Agni's writing? As the moment it gets too hard he'll just abandon her to. Which I imagine Agni is going to be harder, as she is a full companion. And yes I understand Berwyn was considered harder because of all the the transformations, but that was a decision they made. It wasn't there when Hugs was working on it. So they added an additional burden and gave up half way through, when it became to difficult.

I'm...not sure where your conclusions are coming from. Where'd the "too hard to work on and abandoned it" come from? B is a commission writer, and works on multiple projects at once, usually switching day by day. He didn't abandon anything, he finished Agni and continued to work on Berwyn. He switched to working on exclusively Berwyn for the last few months from what I remember to get it done faster.

If the staff is basing it off of their own personal feelings, then that doesn't mean theres no male content writers. There is just no male content writers that they like, or who's submitted work they like. Which if they're not interested in that type of thing to begin with, it will never get in as the staff can gate keep who they allow onto the team. Because even in your own qoute, B started as a male content writer for Berwyn. But, I imagine that the staff probably only liked B's gender bent work on Berwyn and none of the male stuff.

This isn't a guess.

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What is submitted by the community is largely public record. We know not much male stuff gets submitted - we can see it.
The staff isn't basing what gets in the game on their own personal feelings, what they're saying is noone on the staff really is into writing it, not that they're turning up their nose at what gets submitted.

Mostly female stuff gets submitted - mostly female stuff gets approved - mostly female stuff makes it onto the team.

I mean, Jstar has been commissioned as we speak to write Tetsuya, who is supposed to be basically a male version of Kiyoko, so they'll pay for male content if people are available and willing to write it.

 

[Skandranon]

Writers abandoning their characters is nothing new with this games development, and if it continues to be a problem then the dev's need to address it. Imagine if wsan just decided to leave the game. What happens then? Do we just drop Khor'Minos, or do we drop Brint and Brienne? Imagine just dropping a key quest and a companion plus all the other content because one the person that was working on it left, and then telling the people paying on patreon or who bought the game on steam, sorry guess we won't finish the main quest cause our staff quit. That would be unacceptable.

Well, for one, the difference between Hugs and Wsan is Wsan is a full time employee, Hugs was not. Which is why Wsan has been trusted with more responsibility.

And, tbf -they have addressed it. Like it or not, what they have done is addressing the problem.
In both CoC1 and Tits, when a writer abandoned a character - that was it, no more work on the character, just sat there unfinished forever.

In CoC2, they limited the amount of important characters people could write to avoid said issue, and made a statement up front in their design docs that outlined what would happen if someone abandoned a companion - someone else would take over. They then paid someone to tie off the loose end that was said abandoned character.

By any definition, there was a problem and they addressed said problem. How well they addressed said problem is up in the air, but unlike the previous two games, they actually put effort into doing so.

 

[Shiro15]

My mistake then. I could be misremebering or the message could've been deleted (I'm not sure) but I remember someone saying coding and accounting for all of the new variables on Berwyn was hard. As to the submission thing, I did not know the full process surrounding that. Thanks for clearing that up. Genuinely not trying to start an argument over a porn game. As I said I don't normally follow everything that is going on with this game. I have no real problem with anyone on the staff. I will say some of things you brought still make me question the development side of this game, but for different reasons now. I will say the process for getting things done on this game does seem kind of schizophrenic and like they have no real plan. Which is just asking for trouble imo.

Edit: Normally i'm just reacting to what other people are saying on the forum i'm not going to be going to every forum to check everything going on or being written about this game, unless some post link with their evidence.

 

[Daken9]

Well this just makes me think less of B now, as if he was brought on to finish Berwyn and he decided it was to hard to work on and then abandoned it so he could work on Agni, why should I have confidence in Agni's writing? As the moment it gets too hard he'll just abandon her to. Which I imagine Agni is going to be harder, as she is a full companion. And yes I understand Berwyn was considered harder because of all the the transformations, but that was a decision they made. It wasn't there when Hugs was working on it. So they added an additional burden and gave up half way through, when it became to difficult.

If we're talking under the assumption of B being rewarded with Agni for having accepted to work on Berwyn, then i'd say it's more on the piss poor managining than the writer. Even if they hadn't said, we can deduce Berwyn being taken out was always in the plans by how every writer just stopped giving him any regular companion content for a while now (see Alypia and the cow teacher), so really what they did is creating a situation where both companions B was working on got left in the dust, the new one for almost a year and the old one permanently altogether.

Honestly, dumb no matter what angle you take. I guess we can go

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, but really either just keep everyone working on Berwyn and keep him as a companion even with a reduced amount of weighty content (which is everyone but Brienne, Cait and maybe Arona anyway), or make the new companion a male one rather than a chicken futa in disguise.

And fair enough if the latter option is unfeasible because this 30k project (+ steam) can only recruit from community writers, but with how sloppy everything usually is with this game only reason i can think of that they chose not to go with the former is because they wanted a clear cut from Hugs. Or just more sloppiness than usual, dunno.

 

[junlop]

What is submitted by the community is largely public record. We know not much male stuff gets submitted - we can see it.
The staff isn't basing what gets in the game on their own personal feelings, what they're saying is noone on the staff really is into writing it, not that they're turning up their nose at what gets submitted.

Mostly female stuff gets submitted - mostly female stuff gets approved - mostly female stuff makes it onto the team.

I mean, they could just have a disclaimer to tell hetero women and gay dudes to fuck off instead of pretending that it's incredibly hard to find people who can write that shit.

 

[Wrynn13]

I mean, they could just have a disclaimer to tell hetero women and gay dudes to fuck off instead of pretending that it's incredibly hard to find people who can write that shit.

But then they wouldn't be able to get their money.

 

[Meatshield236]

I swear half the problems I see complained about here would be solved by them hiring an editor or two. Someone outside their bubble that can say "hey, this is what this looks like to people who aren't you, you'll want to change this." I very much get the impression that the writers are in too deep with their own kinks and ideas, and don't really get what they look like to people outside their bubble. Things like corruption being completely pointless because everyone is already a turboslut, everything to do with Cait, the overabundance of horse cocks (seriously, wtf is with these people?) and the overall worldbuilding and characterization being an awkward mix of porn logic and semi-serious high fantasy.

Even if they were just upfront and were like "this is a game about everyone sleeping with everyone else, there's basically no female MC content, and try not to take the worldbuilding too seriously because we started out with porn and fleshed it out later" would go miles in setting people's expectations.

 

[Jooj Cena]

Not to be that guy and all, but its a pretty weird echo chamber here as well. The only real difference is levels of moderation.

Like as a person who actually still likes most of what CoC2 does, its hard to actually want to voice that opinion for fear that the forums will shit all over me for it.

I didn't play coc2 for about 2-3 years and was going to get back today. Then I saw they axed my boi . Is there a good amount of content in the game? Is it worth the time now? (I just didn't try too much at the time because I felt it was still way at the beggining).

 

[Raf-Raf]

I didn't play coc2 for about 2-3 years and was going to get back today. Then I saw they axed my boi . Is there a good amount of content in the game? Is it worth the time now? (I just didn't try too much at the time because I felt it was still way at the beggining).

Yesn't.

 

[Skandranon]

I mean, they could just have a disclaimer to tell hetero women and gay dudes to fuck off instead of pretending that it's incredibly hard to find people who can write that shit.

Which would result in even less of that stuff. Seems counterproductive.

 

[Jooj Cena]

Yesn't.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate, my good sir?

 

[Quintilus]

Would you be so kind as to elaborate, my good sir?

If you willing to not notice pieces of shit on you plate, its edible...but taste...