VN Ren'Py Cosy Cafe [v0.13.1 EA] [Cosy Creator]

[rebel836]

The thing about Rachel is she could have absolutely amazing slow burn character development if she was written correctly whether or not she ever becomes an LI.

Like I do believe she genuinely means well, but no one older than her has taken the time to sit her down and explain what she's doing wrong. She is increasingly isolated from her peers, if she isn't corrected and set on a better path, the only people she could surround herself with are those who are also like she currently is.

Honestly I think this is kinda the principals fault to a degree, she just sees her as an annoying lunatic distracting her from more important Families business.

I just want her to have a healthy character arc, I don't want her broken and abused. I also don't want her to give up on feminism entirely, she's just been brainwashed on the most toxic version of it

Objectively speaking and without my own personal, surface level feelings about Rachel, I do agree with this. Like, yeah there are times where I want to impulsively show her a piece of my mind, or even times when a cliff does somehow look somewhat appealing, but when I take a step back, it's easy to see that, like most people, she's the product of her environment. She's isolated herself, burned bridges, and will only keep getting worse until she finds others that think like her, at which point, it will be too late. All of the role models in her life, failed her and have no intention of fixing that.

Feminism, as a whole, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but like any "movement" or "cause" or belief of any type, radicals will always find a way to weaponize it against what they've been taught to hate. There are no desirable extremes. Rachel was never taught this. There's plenty of potential for what comes next. "Broken and abused" is also somewhat subjective, despite its surface level wording. It could be something just as toxic and harmful as the path she's going down now. Someone can take advantage of her. She got caught in the worst way and that can be used against her in a plethora of ways. Being "broken", however, can also be a beautiful thing. Maybe not in the most literal sense, but someone as radicalized as her, learning to be comfortable, and even welcoming to her place serving the MC...someone who thinks they "hate" men, now kneeling and happily giving everything to him...that's somewhat poetic, no? There's something to be said for possessing something no one else could ever have. At least, I know how much I enjoy it. When done properly, it could be one of the most freeing and liberating experiences she could ever have.

 

[S1nsational]

Objectively speaking and without my own personal, surface level feelings about Rachel, I do agree with this. Like, yeah there are times where I want to impulsively show her a piece of my mind, or even times when a cliff does somehow look somewhat appealing, but when I take a step back, it's easy to see that, like most people, she's the product of her environment. She's isolated herself, burned bridges, and will only keep getting worse until she finds others that think like her, at which point, it will be too late. All of the role models in her life, failed her and have no intention of fixing that.

Feminism, as a whole, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but like any "movement" or "cause" or belief of any type, radicals will always find a way to weaponize it against what they've been taught to hate. There are no desirable extremes. Rachel was never taught this. There's plenty of potential for what comes next. "Broken and abused" is also somewhat subjective, despite its surface level wording. It could be something just as toxic and harmful as the path she's going down now. Someone can take advantage of her. She got caught in the worst way and that can be used against her in a plethora of ways. Being "broken", however, can also be a beautiful thing. Maybe not in the most literal sense, but someone as radicalized as her, learning to be comfortable, and even welcoming to her place serving the MC...someone who thinks they "hate" men, now kneeling and happily giving everything to him...that's somewhat poetic, no? There's something to be said for possessing something no one else could ever have. At least, I know how much I enjoy it. When done properly, it could be one of the most freeing and liberating experiences she could ever have.

I'll try to make it clearer, what i want for her is Justice, not Vengeance.

Lucy sees Rachel as being unworthy of being with MC and all the love belonging and protection that comes with it. That's justice.

Victoria, it seems, want Rachel forcefully torn down and to see that she isn't any better than her (Victoria). That's vengeance.

Long term I have no problems with Rachel joining the harem and being involved in the bdsm to one degree or another. Not all the girls are the same and that's great and as it should be. But i don't want the bdsm etc to be used to "heal" her. I want her issues largely fixed before she's inducted into the harem and the various dynamics therein. I do agree that once she's made enough progress that she could benefit from the dynamic of the harem, it'd give her a safe space and friends etc. but she needs to be in the right state of mind for it to be of any help or good for anyone.

What I meant about "broken and abused" was I don't want to see anything even similar to what's happening with the blonde Families girl. What's happening with her if vengeful and spiteful. It's trying to strip her of ego and self respect. Like what's happening with her is the very thing Rachel is afraid is happening with our actual girlfriend. I don't ever want Rachel or any other girls actually forced or coerced into doing anything sexual, I want Rachel to take every step on the path of redemption willingly and healthily.

When and if Rachel is in a good space to start getting inducted into our ways, I don't want her to be forced to be like Victoria is she's more naturally like Lucy or Sarah.

 

[rebel836]

I'll try to make it clearer, what i want for her is Justice, not Vengeance.

Lucy sees Rachel as being unworthy of being with MC and all the love belonging and protection that comes with it. That's justice.

Victoria, it seems, want Rachel forcefully torn down and to see that she isn't any better than her (Victoria). That's vengeance.

Long term I have no problems with Rachel joining the harem and being involved in the bdsm to one degree or another. Not all the girls are the same and that's great and as it should be. But i don't want the bdsm etc to be used to "heal" her. I want her issues largely fixed before she's inducted into the harem and the various dynamics therein. I do agree that once she's made enough progress that she could benefit from the dynamic of the harem, it'd give her a safe space and friends etc. but she needs to be in the right state of mind for it to be of any help or good for anyone.

What I meant about "broken and abused" was I don't want to see anything even similar to what's happening with the blonde Families girl. What's happening with her if vengeful and spiteful. It's trying to strip her of ego and self respect. Like what's happening with her is the very thing Rachel is afraid is happening with our actual girlfriend. I don't ever want Rachel or any other girls actually forced or coerced into doing anything sexual, I want Rachel to take every step on the path of redemption willingly and healthily.

When and if Rachel is in a good space to start getting inducted into our ways, I don't want her to be forced to be like Victoria is she's more naturally like Lucy or Sarah.

Yeah, I know what you mean. As someone who practices it myself, bdsm can be healthy but it should never be used to "heal". There's a difference. Healthy dynamics come from a place of trust and understanding. No matter what your opinions of a person are, you can't really build on trust if they're not "whole" enough to know what they're doing. You'll never truly be able to trust someone's motivations for giving up any sort of control to you that way.

For my own part, I'm not the biggest fan of how the newest addition was added to the harem, but considering it's still a game, I can suspend my own reservations and just enjoy it for what it is. Obviously, in the end, it will all work out for them and she'll enjoy it just as much as everyone else, but the exploitative nature of it isn't my thing in a wholesome context. Exploitation, blackmail, humiliation, etc can all be fun fantasies and I have done so with consenting RL partners, but it's not the best place to build an actual relationship/dynamic from when done literally. But again, it's a game, and one that I am enjoying, so I'm content to see how it plays out.

 

[Cosy Creator]

I completely disagree with the characterisation of Catherine's situation as being abusive or exploitative. She's the one pursuing the relationship for entirely self centred reasons: to benefit from the MC's name and position. On its own that would be bad enough, but doing that and then constantly talking down to the MC and his girls in the process is completely unreasonable. Especially given how many times he has warned her, and how many times he has offered her a way out. So I think the MC trying to mould her into someone that could actually fit into the harem is doing her an act of kindness, because the entirely reasonable alternative would be telling her to pay the money she owes, then go the hell away and never darken their door again.

 

[GamerDaddy]

I completely disagree with the characterisation of Catherine's situation as being abusive or exploitative. She's the one pursuing the relationship for entirely self centred reasons: to benefit from the MC's name and position. On its own that would be bad enough, but doing that and then constantly talking down to the MC and his girls in the process is completely unreasonable. Especially given how many times he has warned her, and how many times he has offered her a way out. So I think the MC trying to mould her into someone that could actually fit into the harem is doing her an act of kindness, because the entirely reasonable alternative would be telling her to pay the money she owes, then go the hell away and never darken their door again.

that is how i seen it

 

[rebel836]

I completely disagree with the characterisation of Catherine's situation as being abusive or exploitative. She's the one pursuing the relationship for entirely self centred reasons: to benefit from the MC's name and position. On its own that would be bad enough, but doing that and then constantly talking down to the MC and his girls in the process is completely unreasonable. Especially given how many times he has warned her, and how many times he has offered her a way out. So I think the MC trying to mould her into someone that could actually fit into the harem is doing her an act of kindness, because the entirely reasonable alternative would be telling her to pay the money she owes, then go the hell away and never darken their door again.

Oh I'm not saying I disagree, it was merely a face value evaluation. It's not how I would have approached it, but it's also good that I'm not writing it. Catherine dug her own grave, that's for sure. As for her motivations, those were never entirely clear, to me as a reader, so if it truly is purely for her own selfish reasons, even more so a reason for her to learn a lesson or two. I'm merely speaking from a RL perspective from my own experiences. I wasn't sold on a few different situations in the story until you sold them to me, I have nothing but faith, Catherine included. Just because I would do things differently, doesn't mean I was right. I'm not trying to take any moral high ground here lol.

 

[Fantasy Catharsis]

Catherine wasn't given an ultimatum and the MC isn't forcing her to stay if she's not happy with her situation as far as I'm concerned she brought it on herself, and if anything I don't think their current dynamic is meant to be taken that seriously either seeing as it's been rather lightherated so far. At least imo. I really don't feel bad for her, just how I don't feel bad for Rachel being treated like the nuisance that she is, and if anything I hope the MC's current treatment towards her doesn't do a complete 180 until she actually learns to stay the hell away from his personal life. She's an absolute psycho.

 

[wiseold6996]

Spoiler: Why Rachel?

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same I want to see getting trained

 

[Konrad Simon]

For the record, I am absolutely against throwing anyone off a cliff. As a dedicated fan of Mark Twain, I prefer them to fall down the well and get drowned.

 

[Wolfeszorn]

just how I don't feel bad for Rachel being treated like the nuisance that she is, and if anything I hope the MC's current treatment towards her doesn't do a complete 180 until she actually learns to stay the hell away from his personal life. She's an absolute psycho.

Exactly the reason why i´d like to avoid her like the plague. I can only speak about my own personal experiences, but her whole behaviour is why i said Cosy did way too good of a job with her character to the point i just want to ignore her. I just don´t ever want to have anything to do with people like that. I understand ppl wanting to let her redeem herself and being part of the harem, but for me, her character is already beyond the point of redemption.

I love every Character so far and i´m down to include all of em into the harem, but in Rachels case i´d like to have at least the option to avoid her and send her to hell. I´m going to support the game either way, but IF she´s ever going to be included in the harem, i´m definitely going to skip all her scenes. I just hate her character with a passion

 

[fraazx]

For the record, I am absolutely against throwing anyone off a cliff. As a dedicated fan of Mark Twain, I prefer them to fall down the well and get drowned.

As someone who watch Murim stuff, throwing somebody off a cliff means that person will conveniently survive by hitting multiple tree branches to slow their fall, find a hidden treasure chest at the bottom that they can use, proceed to level up, and come up to kill you. Falling down a well and drowning is a better way.

I absolutely do not trust cliff. Unless I'm the protagonist.

Exactly the reason why i´d like to avoid her like the plague. I can only speak about my own personal experiences, but her whole behaviour is why i said Cosy did way too good of a job with her character to the point i just want to ignore her. I just don´t ever want to have anything to do with people like that. I understand ppl wanting to let her redeem herself and being part of the harem, but for me, her character is already beyond the point of redemption.

I love every Character so far and i´m down to include all of em into the harem, but in Rachels case i´d like to have at least the option to avoid her and send her to hell. I´m going to support the game either way, but IF she´s ever going to be included in the harem, i´m definitely going to skip all her scenes. I just hate her character with a passion

Same, she reminds me too much of the extremist people that I absolutely hate (that fucking rally of going after kids...) and, even though I know she's most likely not at fault for becoming like that, I can't just bring myself to even tolerate her.

But since this isn't my game or story, I don't seriously want Cosy to change her or the story he's planning on (I might make a fanfic of this game in the future or something like that). This just goes to show how good Cosy made her to replicate real life lol.

 

[Kramsz]

Just curious, hypothetically how would people feel about Rachel getting the shit slapped out of her by one of the girls next time she causes trouble? I don't want to see the MC getting violent with a woman out of anger but I wouldn't mind Lucy delivering a brain rattler for example.

 

[QQP_Purple]

Just curious, hypothetically how would people feel about Rachel getting the shit slapped out of her by one of the girls next time she causes trouble? I don't want to see the MC getting violent with a woman out of anger but I wouldn't mind Lucy delivering a brain rattler for example.

Given her immediate past I would imagine that she would be the last person on earth using serious physical violence to solve problems. And that she would be mortified if anyone did.

Plus like did everyone here miss her reaction in the last scene with Rachel? The dev is clearly setting her up for a redemption arc. And we should not be so hateful to the character for him to think he should not go through with it. Girl might be a bitch but she deserves a chance.

 

[Havik79]

Just curious, hypothetically how would people feel about Rachel getting the shit slapped out of her by one of the girls next time she causes trouble? I don't want to see the MC getting violent with a woman out of anger but I wouldn't mind Lucy delivering a brain rattler for example.

Massively pissed off, Lucy is a sweet girl, and it would make little sense, it is one thing for her to get angry but slapping just feels wrong for her.
I just want Rachel to never be seen again, problem solved.

 

[Kramsz]

Well the question was more in general, if it was one of the girls not the MC delivering the pain I just used her as an example. I don't think Lucy is very traumatized by violence overall though. She's never seemed it even after seeing the MC hit someone and then lose his temper and almost beat up Brian. And there's a difference between slapping someone who's trying to harm your loved one and abusing your loved one. To be clear I don't think it would happen, but I do think Lucy is capable if she was defending the MC.

 

[Havik79]

Well the question was more in general, if it was one of the girls not the MC delivering the pain I just used her as an example. I don't think Lucy is very traumatized by violence overall though. She's never seemed it even after seeing the MC hit someone and then lose his temper and almost beat up Brian. And there's a difference between slapping someone who's trying to harm your loved one and abusing your loved one. To be clear I don't think it would happen, but I do think Lucy is capable if she was defending the MC.

Look Rachel's fix is simple, easy and perfect, one that even the soy boys in this thread can be happy with.

Alison says to us, "You bad boy, me punish you, death by SNU SNU", which of course she will fail to do, and once she is completely defeated, she turns to us and says "Oh by the way, rapist enabler and former assistant to Harvy Winestin Lesbian Headlamp popped in and hired Rachel to write with the force is female star wars stories.

The end problem is solved, and everyone is happy, makes perfect sense.

 

[mordred93]

Exactly the reason why i´d like to avoid her like the plague. I can only speak about my own personal experiences, but her whole behaviour is why i said Cosy did way too good of a job with her character to the point i just want to ignore her. I just don´t ever want to have anything to do with people like that. I understand ppl wanting to let her redeem herself and being part of the harem, but for me, her character is already beyond the point of redemption.

I love every Character so far and i´m down to include all of em into the harem, but in Rachels case i´d like to have at least the option to avoid her and send her to hell. I´m going to support the game either way, but IF she´s ever going to be included in the harem, i´m definitely going to skip all her scenes. I just hate her character with a passion

All Ill say is, we only know about Victoria's change in heart because of the game starting the day it does, and the MC meeting her. We have no clue at Rachael's. The biggest issue, the MC has something the girls want. Each and every one of them (even Lucy). The MC is giving each girl something so they change who they are and work within his rules. The game couldn't have 10 girls on day one, the MC figure them out, and turn them quickly. If Rachael took Victoria's place, needed a job, and the MC said "okay, don't be a bitch", you think she would have done it?

I think you are attributing a well written character with the malice of a 50 year old, when we are dealing with people who are less than 20.

 

[luckyluca01]

i gotta say, normally i hate kinetic novels, but the story of this game is so interesting, I dont really care.

 

[Fantasy Catharsis]

I think you are attributing a well written character with the malice of a 50 year old, when we are dealing with people who are less than 20.

Mate you're acting as if they're children that don't know better, Rachel has accused the MC of some very heinous shit repeatedly so you can't exactly expect the reader not to be pissy with her about it especially with what was she was also up to in his own bloody home, I'm honestly surprised he didn't go through with calling the cops on her but that's ultimately the dev's decision anyway and I respect it. She's an absolute nuisance. You're well within your right to think otherwise and hope she gets some redemption, I personally don't and I'm looking forward to her finally getting some consequences for her actions.

 

[mordred93]

Mate you're acting as if they're children that don't know better, Rachel has accused the MC of some very heinous shit repeatedly so you can't exactly expect the reader not to be pissy with her about it especially with what was she was also up to in his own bloody home, I'm honestly surprised he didn't go through with calling the cops on her but that's ultimately the dev's decision anyway and I respect it. She's an absolute nuisance. You're well within your right to think otherwise and hope she gets some redemption, I personally don't and I'm looking forward to her finally getting some consequences for her actions.

I am just saying her redemption is not "so unbelievable" as some say. Some have said its 180 degrees of her current personality - which is true, but she was not the only one doing major re-writes of their personality to get what they wanted to be w/ the MC. I am not forcing anyone to like her. I am just saying, there have been others, which are well liked, which have done similar things, which people are giving a pass to (Victoria, Catherine, etc.). The only reason Victoria gets a pass is because she was "mean girl" for only 5 in game days. If she has been mean girl to MC for 20+ in game days, her redemption story would have been also a little tough to bear.

As for kinds being around 18 knowing full well the full ramifications of their actions, are you fu#king joking? Having been a teenager, and having raised 2, I can tell you that in no way would someone 18 or 19 years old know full well all legal and societal ramifications for making any form of accusation. Hell I am over 50 and I cannot even claim I know them all now. People like to think that you hit 18 or 19 and BAM, you are an adult, but really you are most the way there. Your brain isn't fully developed until like 23-25 years old, you cannot possibly fathom future issues. This is why teenaged and early 20's year olds do stupid stuff, their brain isn't telling them "dude, bad thing to do".