[...]if you use renpy and you get deducted a point, you just go back
It's exactly the same for any game from any kind. It's not because you don't see the mechanism behind, that other games are way more complex than Ren'py games. Basically speaking, all games, even AAA ones, rely on two things. Firstly a counter/point system, and secondly a flag/semaphore system. Exactly like Ren'py games. Take any The Elder Scrolls game, you become the master of [whatever] just because you past the different steps. Same for Fallout and the factions. You suddenly have to fight against every [whatever] you encounter because you lost too many points.
The difference between most of Ren'py games and other games isn't the mechanism but the way it's used. Too many authors use the points as some kind of "game over limit" and there's even some who increase a counter but in fact never use it ; it's a pure reward, you earned a point, that's all, it will change nothing to the story.
Take a game like
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. The love counter is tested 28 times in the first chapter, and half of these tests happen in day 8 and day 12. This while the friend counter is tested only 14 times, mostly at the end of an update to decide if you've a game over or not. And after day 8 (over 14 days for the chapter) it's no more tested. As for the corruption counter, it's just an indicator, it's never tested. It's an example of what shouldn't be done. Either you put a points system and you use it, testing the value after each decision to change the reaction of the character and/or before each decicion to change available options, or you go for a full Visual Novel.
It doesn't mean that the game is bad, just that it don't need to have a point system since it don't really use it. It's just the illustration of what I said above, the only meaning of the friend points was to let you continue the story. She isn't more or less friendly according to the number of points, it's just that you did it right.
But there's way to do otherwise, even with Ren'py. A game like
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, by example, change the visual and the story according to your number of points. In the same way,
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use the points to completely change the ending and, if I remember correctly, also part of the story. Once again it's the responsibility of the authors. They puts points because it's how a game should works, but they don't know what these points mean.
You've 5 love points ? Well, it's enough, you'll have the handjob. But it will be the same handjob whatever you've just the 5 needed points or if you have 15 points. She's three times more in love with you, but still she'll give you an impersonal handjob... And contrary to what you said, it don't necessarily need more CG. The dialog lines aren't here in case the player is bored. They carry the story in the same way than the CG. There's a difference between, "alright, I'll help you with your boner, but I'll just use my hand", and, "Please, let me use my hands to take care of this for you". And doing this with Ren'py is relatively easy.
[...]someone will make a walkthrough and it'll just be a story where you don't actually have a choice, and I'm a bit conflicted on that sort of VN.
Whatever the game it's the same thing anyway, and it don't apply only for adult games. You've tons of help for any game which exist and if you want you just have to follow the walkthrough... But it's "if you want". The fact that there's a walkthrough doesn't mean that you have to use it, nor that you need to strictly follow it.
Linear games need them, but you can make a more opened game, using interval instead of strict values to trigger something. People, at least those who aren't lazy, use walkthrough because they are stuck. Just design your game in a way that don't force the player to be prince charming himself and always give the right answer, and players will not need a walkthrough.
You can also use a more grinding approach, kind of freezing the story until the player reach the right number of points. During this time there's just random events matching the actual relation, and the story will evolve again only when the player will have enough points. Here again you don't really need a walkthrough. Using it will make the game faster because you'll always have the right number of points at the right time, but don't using it will not block you, nor making the story feel weird because she still hate you but start to suck you whenever you ask.
Unless you make branches between (using your example) touching her ass and not doing it due to the confidence/love, but then it's unsustainable to keep branching and rendering for 10 different paths, it'd be really fucking cool, but unobtainable alas.
Like I said, you don't necessarily need more CG for this. And it's not unsustainable. With ren'py, just write something like this :
Code:
label thisEvent:
if lovePoints < 10:
[generic scene with base CG]
elif lovePoints < 20:
menu:
"touch her ass":
[whatever]
"don't do it":
[whatever]
elif confidencePoints < 10:
mc "Can I... Can I touch your butt, please ?"
elif:
mc "Without really knowing why, you gently touch her ass with your hand."
[scene showing MC touching his mother's ass]
So, if MC isn't enough in love, he continue to see her as a mother and don't even imagine that he can possibly touch her ass.
If MC's love have just started to change, he's still conflicted and the player will have to choice the action.
The two other options will depend of the mother. MC's love have grown enough, he see her as lover and not just has a mother, and like a lover he want to touch her ass. If the mother haven't shown enough confidence, he will ask if he can. But if she'd shown enough confidence, then they already started to act as kind of lovers, and he will act naturally, knowing that they'll be both pleased if he do it.
Obviously it's a really short example and it must be done better, but it's the spirit and it's not more difficult to do than that. It even don't need more CG.
What you propose is really intriguing because it's like bombarding the player with information until he feels or understands what mc is supposed to be feeling.
It's a problem due to the nature of the game. In regular games, it's the action which is the motor of players decision. COD, you need to kill if you want to survive. Fallout, you need to find information and complete some task. Age Of Empire, you need to overpower everybody else on the map.
But in adult games, like you said, it's the feeling which will be the motor of these decisions. You need to reach the point where she'll agree to have sex with you ; you need to seduce her, even if, like I said before, for incest game it's not really a matter of seduction. So, either you put a long introduction text explaining the context and hope the player will understand, or you hit him on the fingers until he understand how he should behave.
But in the end, is it really different to real life when you try to seduce a girl (whatever some one night stand or the woman of your life) ? You don't hit the right button every time. Sometime you're, "wow, I like this band", and she answer you with a, "OMFG ! How can you ? They suck so badly"... Well, it wasn't the good choice, how you rollback in real life ? She bombard you with a tons of information that you'll use to make the right decision and gave the right answer. Therefore, is it this strange if the same happen in a seduction-like game ?
